MP5029 Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 Just now, phoenix66 said: All good points ..but most are on the premise that the flames want to move him... They are willing to, obviously.. but I see nothing wrong with setting a price . Meet it, fine..dont, we're quite content to let him run our nets for the next 2 years After July 1, the focus shifts to the next 2 contestants on "will he sign or won't be" .. mangiapane and Kuzmenko Hopefully Kuzmenk signs and Manji get traded…if No other reason he was part of the old guard time for a change for both team and player 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 3 minutes ago, MP5029 said: Hopefully Kuzmenk signs and Manji get traded…if No other reason he was part of the old guard time for a change for both team and player I strongly suspect this will be the case ..I don't see mang on this team next year .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 2 minutes ago, MP5029 said: All good points but consider this… we don’t have to move Markstrom this summer, maybe keep him till next TDL? Teams will make their mistakes and then have to pay up to correct it next TDL. the only issue is Markstrom could have a down year next year so it’s risky now matter what you do…but hard to fault Conroy, who’s to say the offer wasn’t a 3rd rounder and some low level prospect? I will say if the offer was a first+ (maybe Holtz?) then that deal aught to have been done. again we don’t and won’t know for sure and TDL is over so all moot, now is the time to focus on what’s next Draft and UFA and next season up To TDL. This is a tough one cause even if Marky plays well next season, then knowing this team they will run with him to UFA and get squat (low Return as a rental) and trade Vladar for very little this year…not ideal but I can see that happening I don't think the price goes up the longer you wait, because you risk having teams fall out of the race, you risk teams not having cap space etc. Plus you also have the risk that if Markstrom doesn't play as well or you have the risk that he does and he plays you outside the top 10 and your giving up a mid first to Montreal. 2 minutes ago, phoenix66 said: All good points ..but most are on the premise that the flames want to move him... They are willing to, obviously.. but I see nothing wrong with setting a price . Meet it, fine..dont, we're quite content to let him run our nets for the next 2 years After July 1, the focus shifts to the next 2 contestants on "will he sign or won't be" .. mangiapane and Kuzmenko Actually it's built on the premise that the Flames should WANT to move him. We don't need to go back and forth on this again but I will say it is 100% a mistake if Markstrom is on this team next year. Makes no sense for me to not take the future assets. Yes, mentorship blah blah I get it.. but that isn't more valuable than the future assets they've been offered. this team is building for 3 years from now so keeping a 34 year old goalie is illogical to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 1 minute ago, cross16 said: I don't think the price goes up the longer you wait, because you risk having teams fall out of the race, you risk teams not having cap space etc. Plus you also have the risk that if Markstrom doesn't play as well or you have the risk that he does and he plays you outside the top 10 and your giving up a mid first to Montreal. Actually it's built on the premise that the Flames should WANT to move him. We don't need to go back and forth on this again but I will say it is 100% a mistake if Markstrom is on this team next year. Makes no sense for me to not take the future assets. Yes, mentorship blah blah I get it.. but that isn't more valuable than the future assets they've been offered. this team is building for 3 years from now so keeping a 34 year old goalie is illogical to me. And I've moved closer to your thinking .just with my caveat of needing abother vet ... But.. under no circumstances Shoujd they be giving him away .. by all accounts I feel good we didn't take the devil's offer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted March 9 Author Report Share Posted March 9 7 minutes ago, phoenix66 said: All good points ..but most are on the premise that the flames want to move him... They are willing to, obviously.. but I see nothing wrong with setting a price . Meet it, fine..dont, we're quite content to let him run our nets for the next 2 years After July 1, the focus shifts to the next 2 contestants on "will he sign or won't be" .. mangiapane and Kuzmenko The reasons for trading him are mostly asset management. He has value now. In 2 years, his value may be very limited. Trade him this summer for a 1st in 2025 (if after the draft) + a high level prospect or player. Don't trade him and let him walk as a UFA in 2 years and have nothing. Have we somehow improved? If we decide to hold him for one last run next season and he regresses, then his value plummets to almost nothing. Missed opportunity. Again. I'm in the camp that we can't keep holding onto to very tradeable players thinking tthey will somehow have the magic and make us a contender. If you aren't building and improving, you are going backwards. We have very little in the F pipeline to get excited about. Our current roster has our best prospects on it already. Good enough for middle of the pack but not suddenly a top 10 team. Getting there and staying there should be our goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 4 minutes ago, travel_dude said: The reasons for trading him are mostly asset management. He has value now. In 2 years, his value may be very limited. Trade him this summer for a 1st in 2025 (if after the draft) + a high level prospect or player. Don't trade him and let him walk as a UFA in 2 years and have nothing. Have we somehow improved? If we decide to hold him for one last run next season and he regresses, then his value plummets to almost nothing. Missed opportunity. Again. I'm in the camp that we can't keep holding onto to very tradeable players thinking tthey will somehow have the magic and make us a contender. If you aren't building and improving, you are going backwards. We have very little in the F pipeline to get excited about. Our current roster has our best prospects on it already. Good enough for middle of the pack but not suddenly a top 10 team. Getting there and staying there should be our goal. Don't disagree . It's all like a jigsaw puzzle of reports . But it sounds like the offer was something like Holtz a first and a prospect.. that was likely agreeable ...then it now seems like NJ suddenly wanted retention and woujdnt pay for it .. and when the report came out that now they don't need retention .I nearly guarantee you the offer was less Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted March 9 Author Report Share Posted March 9 16 minutes ago, phoenix66 said: And I've moved closer to your thinking .just with my caveat of needing abother vet ... But.. under no circumstances Shoujd they be giving him away .. by all accounts I feel good we didn't take the devil's offer The Devil you know versus the one you don't...Sorry couldn't resist. So, if they circle back to the Debbies this summer, and they offer a similar offer, would we be wrong to accept it? Some might suggest that we cooled off because we want a last chance at playoffs. Or the idea that the salary retention was a deal killer. They claim to have dropped that, but by that point the dye may have been cast. One thing is likely. The Devils will have more pressure to get a goalie after they finish out the season. Goalie results from that team are going to be watched very closely by the fans and owners. TF has already said he wants the big fish. I don't know the market will be better for us or worse, but they already look like they want him. Saros, if even available, is going to be a lot more. The UFA market is thin. Trades may be only option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 I can totally see it having gone down like this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted March 9 Author Report Share Posted March 9 All I am getting at is we need to make the move this summer. We had the right idea at TDL, but for some reason we messed it up. Trade not done, player PO'd, missed opportunity. If the market is better in the summer, then have a bidding war. Or just accept the first bona fide offer that has spmething you want. Doesn't matter as long as you don't overplay your hand. BT always seemed to work it for weeks and he claimed to have drove a hard bargain. Misses out on other things due to that. I'm not convinced that the hard bargaining actually got us a better deal. Monahan, Jarnkrok, Toffoli costs were high. We need to be on the other end of those types of trades, like Sharky and Lindholm. I have no problem with the returns on the three UFA guys. My preference was less D coming back, but we had thinned out the stock of those, so overall we needed some. Next trades should be excess F, excess lower ceiling D and underperforming F. I like Kuzmenko, but he's like Mangiapane; a lot of money for them if they are not scoring. Mangiapane is blocking a development spot, if we want to think about Backlund's line as the bump line. Instill the 2 way play in the player, then when their scoring takes off, move them up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 He's not wrong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted March 9 Author Report Share Posted March 9 7 minutes ago, phoenix66 said: I can totally see it having gone down like this No doubt EF will have an article on how this happened, based on him watching this clip. We will probably hear at some point what FLA and TBL had offered. Good I guess to get the pick settled now for 2026. Unless a total collapse in FLA, we are giving up the FLA pick or a non top 10 pick in 2025. VGK is playing with fire, but they always manage to compete. Of all the teams in on Hanifin, I don't think some were serious offers. TOR would pay rental prices. Not really any that seemed to be willing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted March 9 Author Report Share Posted March 9 3 minutes ago, phoenix66 said: He's not wrong... I liked the move to get Hertyl, but I think he only works for them. Big risk, big payoff. They can manage next year when they see what the results are. If you are a player there, you know they will trade you any time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 2 hours ago, cross16 said: I agree, this is why I wonder if the Flames over played their hand. The assumption is the goalie market will get better but i'm not so sure I see it the same way. There are going to be options and if the Devils thought Calgary's price was too high yesterday, why would the suddenly pay it in the summer? I do think Ilya Sorokin is a pretty interesting free agent. 29, wasn't that long ago some thought he was amongst the better goalie in the league. Ullmark is really interesting. Sounds like there was a deal in place yesterday to go to LA and he said no Will he say no again in the summer or did he just not want to move at the deadline? What does Florida do with Knight? There were some suggestions they were open to moving him. Lots of moving parts to the goalie market. Flames might have more options to negotiate with but i'm not so sure it's going to lead to the type of deal they are after. I agree. As a general rule teams who say "ah, we can skip the tdl, we'll get a better return in summer "... And up experiencing a @Heartbreaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 2 hours ago, MP5029 said: All good points but consider this… we don’t have to move Markstrom this summer, maybe keep him till next TDL? Teams will make their mistakes and then have to pay up to correct it next TDL. the only issue is Markstrom could have a down year next year so it’s risky now matter what you do…but hard to fault Conroy, who’s to say the offer wasn’t a 3rd rounder and some low level prospect? I will say if the offer was a first+ (maybe Holtz?) then that deal aught to have been done. again we don’t and won’t know for sure and TDL is over so all moot, now is the time to focus on what’s next Draft and UFA and next season up To TDL. This is a tough one cause even if Marky plays well next season, then knowing this team they will run with him to UFA and get squat (low Return as a rental) and trade Vladar for very little this year…not ideal but I can see that happening problem might be that he sucks next year. What if he's pissed and wants out and now dealing from even more of a weakness? Regardless, they should call up wolf and play him up in the bigs the rest of the season. Waive Vladar. Like Conundrum said, start watching how Markstrom scans the players and have Wolf start his book on them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 1 hour ago, travel_dude said: No doubt EF will have an article on how this happened, based on him watching this clip. We will probably hear at some point what FLA and TBL had offered. Good I guess to get the pick settled now for 2026. Unless a total collapse in FLA, we are giving up the FLA pick or a non top 10 pick in 2025. VGK is playing with fire, but they always manage to compete. Of all the teams in on Hanifin, I don't think some were serious offers. TOR would pay rental prices. Not really any that seemed to be willing. this is the thing, the Johnny Gaudreau situation all over. Did Tampa really want him? Or were they willing to wait for summer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 4 hours ago, phoenix66 said: He's not wrong... Yups pretty much. VGK is willing to pay to get the guy they want/need. No messing around. No afraid to make big deals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 1 hour ago, The_People1 said: Yups pretty much. VGK is willing to pay to get the guy they want/need. No messing around. No afraid to make big deals. they let other teams set a price and then swoop in and say, ok, I'll beat that... let them haggle for weeks and then be like, ooh, how much they giving you? Yup, we want him, we'll give just a bit more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted March 10 Author Report Share Posted March 10 3 hours ago, The_People1 said: Yups pretty much. VGK is willing to pay to get the guy they want/need. No messing around. No afraid to make big deals. 1 hour ago, robrob74 said: they let other teams set a price and then swoop in and say, ok, I'll beat that... let them haggle for weeks and then be like, ooh, how much they giving you? Yup, we want him, we'll give just a bit more than that. They don't worry about one guy that a team wants. Wany Tuck and Krebbs? Sure, we will take Eichel because you are too stupid to deal with him. Want a garbage D? No problem, we will take Stone. Do we care if they may not sign? No, because we will pay them if they do. Meanwhile, we hum and haw about Valimaki or offering better than half broken Monahan. He may not sign. Can't be making trades like that. Ooh, we have a solid offer. Not what we expected so talk for days about it. Delay discussions about a player and guess what, it falls through because of paperwork. Try to offer sheet a guy that has to go through waivers. If COL wasn't as stupid, we lose Monahan before we draft him. We have had the dumbest GM in the history of dumb. Connie is making solid decisions if not batting 100%. BT, Feaster, Riseborough, Sutter, shall I continue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Tribal Chief Posted March 10 Report Share Posted March 10 Well from what i have seen miramanov is gonna do well for us 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted March 10 Report Share Posted March 10 12 hours ago, cross16 said: To clarify, Montreal gets the option to take the pick. It's not automatic and 100% their call to make. Nooooooo.... Worst trade in NHL history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted March 10 Author Report Share Posted March 10 1 hour ago, The_Tribal Chief said: Well from what i have seen miramanov is gonna do well for us I'm not going to worry too much about any of the new guys at this point. I will say that Miramanov is 26, so not exactly young. Not old at all. Oky is 23, Grush is 20. They will need time to figure out the system. Next year they are likely in the NHL for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted March 10 Author Report Share Posted March 10 9 minutes ago, The_People1 said: Nooooooo.... Worst trade in NHL history. Sutter and Riseborough say hi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Tribal Chief Posted March 10 Report Share Posted March 10 Yeah but when you got a cannon of a shot like miromanov players are gonna fear blocking your shot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebrewcrew Posted March 10 Report Share Posted March 10 55 minutes ago, The_People1 said: Nooooooo.... Worst trade in NHL history. Naw that's Vegas trading the 2026 Joe Iginla pick for Hanifin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted March 10 Report Share Posted March 10 5 hours ago, travel_dude said: They don't worry about one guy that a team wants. Wany Tuck and Krebbs? Sure, we will take Eichel because you are too stupid to deal with him. Want a garbage D? No problem, we will take Stone. Do we care if they may not sign? No, because we will pay them if they do. Meanwhile, we hum and haw about Valimaki or offering better than half broken Monahan. He may not sign. Can't be making trades like that. Ooh, we have a solid offer. Not what we expected so talk for days about it. Delay discussions about a player and guess what, it falls through because of paperwork. Try to offer sheet a guy that has to go through waivers. If COL wasn't as stupid, we lose Monahan before we draft him. We have had the dumbest GM in the history of dumb. Connie is making solid decisions if not batting 100%. BT, Feaster, Riseborough, Sutter, shall I continue? yesss! Please do! it's the org philosophies, not just the GM's. We like to blame GM's but we could have had Zucker when he was one to get. A deal was had but the owners said no. How many other deals like that. How many of us wanted to trade Valamaki? im just adding to your arguments not trying to contest them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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