Treliving-Flames mutually part ways. Maloney POHO/interim GM and search on for new GM

[The_People1]

23 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

The Flames need a culture change.  The old style Burke-Sutter-Bean beliefs are so 2000's.

At best 2012.

I don't know that Conroy can bridge the gap to the new mantra.

He does seem to be a players' GM, and would probably have players want to sign.

But, I don't believe he would have more autonomy than BT.

 

IMHO, Maloney needs to make the decision now to part ways with Sutter and Muller, just based on results.

It doesn't matter what the players say, the results speak for themselves.

You don't reward sub-par results by replacing the GM only because he walked away.

Let the new GM, be free and clear to name his coaching staff.

It could run deeper than just Sutter and Muller, but some things worked so let him make that call.

 

That press conference though... It still plays in my head like a recurring nightmare.

 

Don Maloney is a pushover.  Nice guy.  Takes orders.

 

Craig Conroy... maybe less of a pushover but still a nice guy.  He will just take orders from John Bean.  We need a Steve Yzerman to stand up to John Bean and tell him straight up, "I am a hockey legend.  Leave the hockey decisions to me".

 

The new hire will be very telling.  Do they hire someone who will challenge their ideas?  Or just Craig Conroy to take orders?

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

That press conference though... It still plays in my head like a recurring nightmare.

 

Don Maloney is a pushover.  Nice guy.  Takes orders.

 

Craig Conroy... maybe less of a pushover but still a nice guy.  He will just take orders from John Bean.  We need a Steve Yzerman to stand up to John Bean and tell him straight up, "I am a hockey legend.  Leave the hockey decisions to me".

 

The new hire will be very telling.  Do they hire someone who will challenge their ideas?  Or just Craig Conroy to take orders?

 

Oh, I was just saying what I want not what I expect.  I had a pit in my stomach when I listened.

No good GM is going to come here and take orders from a coach or an owner rep.

Maloney will revert to VP.

So, it comes down to how much of a hands off role a GM will demand of the owners.

BT didn't have that baked in and had to gain it.

Only a very junior one would ever sign up for that.

And how exactly do you hold a GM to account when the owners tie their hands.

Answer - you can't.

[Thebrewcrew]

There’s three candidates that stick out to me.

 

Conroy- Would appear to be the leader from the outside. The organization could be “status quo” with the same intentions to ice a competitive team. 
 

Futa- the ties to Sutter. He was once a sought after GM candidate. Now in the media. This opening is likely his best and maybe last chance at a GM chair.

 

Sean Burke- Maloney ties to Arizona. He’s a well respected mind not only in the goaltending community but in the management world.

 

 

I don’t think they’re getting a Tulsky. Bowman has been thrown out there, they should not do that at all. He would be too expensive anyway. Dina’s wouldn’t come here either. It’s going to be a first time GM.

[Sarasti]

24 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

There’s three candidates that stick out to me.

 

Conroy- Would appear to be the leader from the outside. The organization could be “status quo” with the same intentions to ice a competitive team. 
 

Futa- the ties to Sutter. He was once a sought after GM candidate. Now in the media. This opening is likely his best and maybe last chance at a GM chair.

 

Sean Burke- Maloney ties to Arizona. He’s a well respected mind not only in the goaltending community but in the management world.

 

 

I don’t think they’re getting a Tulsky. Bowman has been thrown out there, they should not do that at all. He would be too expensive anyway. Dina’s wouldn’t come here either. It’s going to be a first time GM.

 

Hard no to Bowman for me. 

For many reasons, but first and foremost... Chicago didn't win a single round of playoffs after Kane and Toews signed their contracts.

[tmac70]

So Tre leaves to only be replaced by a guy that is similar in Maloney.  I love Conroy and Pascoe has done a good job with the AHL team. IMHO just for optics it appears you're bringing in an outsider If the rumors are true that Tre was given the green light to remove Sutter, then why  leave it to Maloney to do.  

 

So my 2 cents is if Sutter is given a pass it will be an outside guy that has some form of connection to Sutter. Tulsky would be my first choice, but I could see a Fula. If Sutter is removed then the only right thing to do is promote Love to HC and Conroy to GM. Its a breath of fresh air for everyone and Love at least knowing the prospects and the system that's in place now. If you make a wholesale change to the coaching staff and systems, you may as well trade it all off in the off-season.  Even with the new coach do Backs still want to be here, Lindholm, Tanev, Toffoli, Hanifin, and Zadorov/. IMHO you could retool pretty fast by trading those parts. Lindholm, Backs, Tanev, Toffoli, and Hanifin should bring you some firsts. 

[travel_dude]

10 hours ago, tmac70 said:

So Tre leaves to only be replaced by a guy that is similar in Maloney.  I love Conroy and Pascoe has done a good job with the AHL team. IMHO just for optics it appears you're bringing in an outsider If the rumors are true that Tre was given the green light to remove Sutter, then why  leave it to Maloney to do.  

 

So my 2 cents is if Sutter is given a pass it will be an outside guy that has some form of connection to Sutter. Tulsky would be my first choice, but I could see a Fula. If Sutter is removed then the only right thing to do is promote Love to HC and Conroy to GM. Its a breath of fresh air for everyone and Love at least knowing the prospects and the system that's in place now. If you make a wholesale change to the coaching staff and systems, you may as well trade it all off in the off-season.  Even with the new coach do Backs still want to be here, Lindholm, Tanev, Toffoli, Hanifin, and Zadorov/. IMHO you could retool pretty fast by trading those parts. Lindholm, Backs, Tanev, Toffoli, and Hanifin should bring you some firsts. 

 

What a guy from the Athletic suggested was that BT asked the owners to give Sutter a one year extension, so that Sutter would not be making decisions based on getting a new deal.  It wouldn't tie the team to Sutter longer than the 23/24 season if things didn't work out.  The owners declined and offered Sutter 2 years.  

 

Honestly, I don't have a clue if Maloney will be the one deciding on Sutter's future.  Even if BT was given the okay to fire Sutter, why would he do that if leaving?  It sounds like a decision that should be made by the new GM and POHO.  I don't believe Maloney will make that decision by himself.  I could be wrong.

[The_People1]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

What a guy from the Athletic suggested was that BT asked the owners to give Sutter a one year extension, so that Sutter would not be making decisions based on getting a new deal.  It wouldn't tie the team to Sutter longer than the 23/24 season if things didn't work out.  The owners declined and offered Sutter 2 years.  

 

Honestly, I don't have a clue if Maloney will be the one deciding on Sutter's future.  Even if BT was given the okay to fire Sutter, why would he do that if leaving?  It sounds like a decision that should be made by the new GM and POHO.  I don't believe Maloney will make that decision by himself.  I could be wrong.

 

It's a tough situation because if it's true Sutter cannot be fired because of a handshake with owners, then the new GM doesn't have a say in the matter.  He's stuck with Sutter.

[travel_dude]

14 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

It's a tough situation because if it's true Sutter cannot be fired because of a handshake with owners, then the new GM doesn't have a say in the matter.  He's stuck with Sutter.

 

If that's the case, don't expect many to want the job.

[conundrumed]

So.

Should I read anything into Treliving leaving with zero to say? No presser, no thank you's, no goodbyes. 9 years, radio silence. Or did I miss it?

[LouCifer]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

So.

Should I read anything into Treliving leaving with zero to say? No presser, no thank you's, no goodbyes. 9 years, radio silence. Or did I miss it?

The silence speaks volumes. 

[conundrumed]

36 minutes ago, LouCifer said:

The silence speaks volumes. 

In the fact that no one talks about BT not wanting to talk about it.

What, are we all about "respecting privacy" now? To protect the perp, or the victim? Or just hope the whole thing just fades away?

It's a private matter, we don't owe our supporters anything.lol

[The_People1]

15 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

In the fact that no one talks about BT not wanting to talk about it.

What, are we all about "respecting privacy" now? To protect the perp, or the victim? Or just hope the whole thing just fades away?

It's a private matter, we don't owe our supporters anything.lol

 

Well no.  99% of GMs and coaches who leave don't do any glamourous exit interview with the media.  It's normal.  

[conundrumed]

6 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Well no.  99% of GMs and coaches who leave don't do any glamourous exit interview with the media.  It's normal.  

You're not helping me build rumours and dissent.

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

So.

Should I read anything into Treliving leaving with zero to say? No presser, no thank you's, no goodbyes. 9 years, radio silence. Or did I miss it?

 

I would say that when you leave because you are 110% frustrated with the owners and coach, there is no way that you can address the media.  In some ways, this was the same as a firing.  You pick the coach's corner and the GM is left with no alternative but to "mutually part ways".  I am convinced that his first words after the season ended were that the coach had to go.  

 

Do I think that he should have talked?  For sure.  The last thing in the world I wanted to hear was Bean talking about hockey.  

[conundrumed]

32 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I would say that when you leave because you are 110% frustrated with the owners and coach, there is no way that you can address the media.  In some ways, this was the same as a firing.  You pick the coach's corner and the GM is left with no alternative but to "mutually part ways".  I am convinced that his first words after the season ended were that the coach had to go.  

 

Do I think that he should have talked?  For sure.  The last thing in the world I wanted to hear was Bean talking about hockey.  

Reminds me of Alex Delvecchio always talking about what the Wings were doing, no matter how always bad.

Oh, wait, no, it's the opposite of that. Alex is solid. Who wants to be our Phil Esposito and sell this mess to the public?

@cross16, when's your interview? Let's do this thing.lol

[cross16]

10 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Reminds me of Alex Delvecchio always talking about what the Wings were doing, no matter how always bad.

Oh, wait, no, it's the opposite of that. Alex is solid. Who wants to be our Phil Esposito and sell this mess to the public?

@cross16, when's your interview? Let's do this thing.lol

 

I have my phone on standby.. hasn't rang yet i'm afraid....

[DirtyDeeds]

On 4/17/2023 at 3:14 PM, travel_dude said:

 

Modern ideas

BT was hamstrung to get away from Burke hockey and the owners tied his hands making decisions.

BT brought in modern analytics to this team.

Sutter is about as old school as you can get, ranks up there with Muller on the PP.

Fresh - that's funny since it was the coaching decisions to not play fresh player but rely on the vet leadership. 

 

If we are performing surgery, which I doubt, then need to remove the abscess.  The coaching failed.

No matter if you consider the players underperformed or not, the coaching was unable to get enough out of the team.

That is a major fail.  Most teams start with the coach and GM.

They don't just hang it on the GM.

I don't think he did..

 

Chris Snow was hired to setup & handle analytics in 2011 and BT was hired in April 28, 2014.

 

So Chris Snow was brought in under Jay Feasters tenure

 

 

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said:

I don't think he did..

 

Chris Snow was hired to setup & handle analytics in 2011 and BT was hired in April 28, 2014.

 

So Chris Snow was brought in under Jay Feasters tenure

 

 

 

Was it modern though?

[DirtyDeeds]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Was it modern though?

Yes he came from the Wild and brought his stats program with him. The one that tracks all the extended stats and keeps vids of tendancies and much more.

[The_People1]

Modern analytics is finished guys.  Time to train AI to do all scouting and prospect prediction models.

 

Feed the AI 999,999,999,999 hours of hockey footage dating back to the first VHS tape recordings from all leagues including Juniors, College, AHL, WHA, Europe, Timbits, etc.   After the AI is trained, run some video of, for example, Nate Danielson and ask the AI to project how good he will be in his prime.  

 

Feed the AI 5 years worth of hockey footage of the Flames and then for example, 5 years of the Colorado Avalanche.  Then ask the AI how to beat the the Avalanche in a 7 game series.

[conundrumed]

3 hours ago, The_People1 said:

Modern analytics is finished guys.  Time to train AI to do all scouting and prospect prediction models.

 

Feed the AI 999,999,999,999 hours of hockey footage dating back to the first VHS tape recordings from all leagues including Juniors, College, AHL, WHA, Europe, Timbits, etc.   After the AI is trained, run some video of, for example, Nate Danielson and ask the AI to project how good he will be in his prime.  

 

Feed the AI 5 years worth of hockey footage of the Flames and then for example, 5 years of the Colorado Avalanche.  Then ask the AI how to beat the the Avalanche in a 7 game series.

Another failed attempt to apply the law of averages to something littered with variables? What could possibly go wrong?

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

6 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Another failed attempt to apply the law of averages to something littered with variables? What could possibly go wrong?

Underperform, miss the playoff, and miss a lotto pick?............oh wait.

 

AI is already amongst us. 

[The_People1]

8 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Another failed attempt to apply the law of averages to something littered with variables? What could possibly go wrong?

 

This sounds like a question for ChatGPT.

[cross16]

13 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Was it modern though?

 

Deeds is right. Snow brought analytics to the Flames under Feaster. Snow has always been regarded as a top analytics guy and i do recall hearing that the programs they initially invested in were top notch. 

 

Treliving did expand it thought. Hired David Johnston shortly after he was hired and then added 2 more 2 years ago I believe. 

 

But it was Feaster who brought it here. 

[The_People1]

38 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Deeds is right. Snow brought analytics to the Flames under Feaster. Snow has always been regarded as a top analytics guy and i do recall hearing that the programs they initially invested in were top notch. 

 

Treliving did expand it thought. Hired David Johnston shortly after he was hired and then added 2 more 2 years ago I believe. 

 

But it was Feaster who brought it here. 

 

What are your thoughts on AI taking over scouting and player projections?