The_People1 Posted April 20, 2023 Report Share Posted April 20, 2023 23 hours ago, travel_dude said: The Flames need a culture change. The old style Burke-Sutter-Bean beliefs are so 2000's. At best 2012. I don't know that Conroy can bridge the gap to the new mantra. He does seem to be a players' GM, and would probably have players want to sign. But, I don't believe he would have more autonomy than BT. IMHO, Maloney needs to make the decision now to part ways with Sutter and Muller, just based on results. It doesn't matter what the players say, the results speak for themselves. You don't reward sub-par results by replacing the GM only because he walked away. Let the new GM, be free and clear to name his coaching staff. It could run deeper than just Sutter and Muller, but some things worked so let him make that call. That press conference though... It still plays in my head like a recurring nightmare. Don Maloney is a pushover. Nice guy. Takes orders. Craig Conroy... maybe less of a pushover but still a nice guy. He will just take orders from John Bean. We need a Steve Yzerman to stand up to John Bean and tell him straight up, "I am a hockey legend. Leave the hockey decisions to me". The new hire will be very telling. Do they hire someone who will challenge their ideas? Or just Craig Conroy to take orders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted April 20, 2023 Report Share Posted April 20, 2023 2 hours ago, The_People1 said: That press conference though... It still plays in my head like a recurring nightmare. Don Maloney is a pushover. Nice guy. Takes orders. Craig Conroy... maybe less of a pushover but still a nice guy. He will just take orders from John Bean. We need a Steve Yzerman to stand up to John Bean and tell him straight up, "I am a hockey legend. Leave the hockey decisions to me". The new hire will be very telling. Do they hire someone who will challenge their ideas? Or just Craig Conroy to take orders? Oh, I was just saying what I want not what I expect. I had a pit in my stomach when I listened. No good GM is going to come here and take orders from a coach or an owner rep. Maloney will revert to VP. So, it comes down to how much of a hands off role a GM will demand of the owners. BT didn't have that baked in and had to gain it. Only a very junior one would ever sign up for that. And how exactly do you hold a GM to account when the owners tie their hands. Answer - you can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebrewcrew Posted April 20, 2023 Report Share Posted April 20, 2023 There’s three candidates that stick out to me. Conroy- Would appear to be the leader from the outside. The organization could be “status quo” with the same intentions to ice a competitive team. Futa- the ties to Sutter. He was once a sought after GM candidate. Now in the media. This opening is likely his best and maybe last chance at a GM chair. Sean Burke- Maloney ties to Arizona. He’s a well respected mind not only in the goaltending community but in the management world. I don’t think they’re getting a Tulsky. Bowman has been thrown out there, they should not do that at all. He would be too expensive anyway. Dina’s wouldn’t come here either. It’s going to be a first time GM. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarasti Posted April 20, 2023 Report Share Posted April 20, 2023 24 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said: There’s three candidates that stick out to me. Conroy- Would appear to be the leader from the outside. The organization could be “status quo” with the same intentions to ice a competitive team. Futa- the ties to Sutter. He was once a sought after GM candidate. Now in the media. This opening is likely his best and maybe last chance at a GM chair. Sean Burke- Maloney ties to Arizona. He’s a well respected mind not only in the goaltending community but in the management world. I don’t think they’re getting a Tulsky. Bowman has been thrown out there, they should not do that at all. He would be too expensive anyway. Dina’s wouldn’t come here either. It’s going to be a first time GM. Hard no to Bowman for me. For many reasons, but first and foremost... Chicago didn't win a single round of playoffs after Kane and Toews signed their contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmac70 Posted April 21, 2023 Report Share Posted April 21, 2023 So Tre leaves to only be replaced by a guy that is similar in Maloney. I love Conroy and Pascoe has done a good job with the AHL team. IMHO just for optics it appears you're bringing in an outsider If the rumors are true that Tre was given the green light to remove Sutter, then why leave it to Maloney to do. So my 2 cents is if Sutter is given a pass it will be an outside guy that has some form of connection to Sutter. Tulsky would be my first choice, but I could see a Fula. If Sutter is removed then the only right thing to do is promote Love to HC and Conroy to GM. Its a breath of fresh air for everyone and Love at least knowing the prospects and the system that's in place now. If you make a wholesale change to the coaching staff and systems, you may as well trade it all off in the off-season. Even with the new coach do Backs still want to be here, Lindholm, Tanev, Toffoli, Hanifin, and Zadorov/. IMHO you could retool pretty fast by trading those parts. Lindholm, Backs, Tanev, Toffoli, and Hanifin should bring you some firsts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted April 21, 2023 Report Share Posted April 21, 2023 10 hours ago, tmac70 said: So Tre leaves to only be replaced by a guy that is similar in Maloney. I love Conroy and Pascoe has done a good job with the AHL team. IMHO just for optics it appears you're bringing in an outsider If the rumors are true that Tre was given the green light to remove Sutter, then why leave it to Maloney to do. So my 2 cents is if Sutter is given a pass it will be an outside guy that has some form of connection to Sutter. Tulsky would be my first choice, but I could see a Fula. If Sutter is removed then the only right thing to do is promote Love to HC and Conroy to GM. Its a breath of fresh air for everyone and Love at least knowing the prospects and the system that's in place now. If you make a wholesale change to the coaching staff and systems, you may as well trade it all off in the off-season. Even with the new coach do Backs still want to be here, Lindholm, Tanev, Toffoli, Hanifin, and Zadorov/. IMHO you could retool pretty fast by trading those parts. Lindholm, Backs, Tanev, Toffoli, and Hanifin should bring you some firsts. What a guy from the Athletic suggested was that BT asked the owners to give Sutter a one year extension, so that Sutter would not be making decisions based on getting a new deal. It wouldn't tie the team to Sutter longer than the 23/24 season if things didn't work out. The owners declined and offered Sutter 2 years. Honestly, I don't have a clue if Maloney will be the one deciding on Sutter's future. Even if BT was given the okay to fire Sutter, why would he do that if leaving? It sounds like a decision that should be made by the new GM and POHO. I don't believe Maloney will make that decision by himself. I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted April 21, 2023 Report Share Posted April 21, 2023 3 hours ago, travel_dude said: What a guy from the Athletic suggested was that BT asked the owners to give Sutter a one year extension, so that Sutter would not be making decisions based on getting a new deal. It wouldn't tie the team to Sutter longer than the 23/24 season if things didn't work out. The owners declined and offered Sutter 2 years. Honestly, I don't have a clue if Maloney will be the one deciding on Sutter's future. Even if BT was given the okay to fire Sutter, why would he do that if leaving? It sounds like a decision that should be made by the new GM and POHO. I don't believe Maloney will make that decision by himself. I could be wrong. It's a tough situation because if it's true Sutter cannot be fired because of a handshake with owners, then the new GM doesn't have a say in the matter. He's stuck with Sutter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted April 21, 2023 Report Share Posted April 21, 2023 14 minutes ago, The_People1 said: It's a tough situation because if it's true Sutter cannot be fired because of a handshake with owners, then the new GM doesn't have a say in the matter. He's stuck with Sutter. If that's the case, don't expect many to want the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted April 22, 2023 Report Share Posted April 22, 2023 So. Should I read anything into Treliving leaving with zero to say? No presser, no thank you's, no goodbyes. 9 years, radio silence. Or did I miss it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouCifer Posted April 22, 2023 Report Share Posted April 22, 2023 1 hour ago, conundrumed said: So. Should I read anything into Treliving leaving with zero to say? No presser, no thank you's, no goodbyes. 9 years, radio silence. Or did I miss it? The silence speaks volumes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted April 22, 2023 Report Share Posted April 22, 2023 36 minutes ago, LouCifer said: The silence speaks volumes. In the fact that no one talks about BT not wanting to talk about it. What, are we all about "respecting privacy" now? To protect the perp, or the victim? Or just hope the whole thing just fades away? It's a private matter, we don't owe our supporters anything.lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted April 22, 2023 Report Share Posted April 22, 2023 15 minutes ago, conundrumed said: In the fact that no one talks about BT not wanting to talk about it. What, are we all about "respecting privacy" now? To protect the perp, or the victim? Or just hope the whole thing just fades away? It's a private matter, we don't owe our supporters anything.lol Well no. 99% of GMs and coaches who leave don't do any glamourous exit interview with the media. It's normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted April 22, 2023 Report Share Posted April 22, 2023 6 minutes ago, The_People1 said: Well no. 99% of GMs and coaches who leave don't do any glamourous exit interview with the media. It's normal. You're not helping me build rumours and dissent. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted April 22, 2023 Report Share Posted April 22, 2023 2 hours ago, conundrumed said: So. Should I read anything into Treliving leaving with zero to say? No presser, no thank you's, no goodbyes. 9 years, radio silence. Or did I miss it? I would say that when you leave because you are 110% frustrated with the owners and coach, there is no way that you can address the media. In some ways, this was the same as a firing. You pick the coach's corner and the GM is left with no alternative but to "mutually part ways". I am convinced that his first words after the season ended were that the coach had to go. Do I think that he should have talked? For sure. The last thing in the world I wanted to hear was Bean talking about hockey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted April 22, 2023 Report Share Posted April 22, 2023 32 minutes ago, travel_dude said: I would say that when you leave because you are 110% frustrated with the owners and coach, there is no way that you can address the media. In some ways, this was the same as a firing. You pick the coach's corner and the GM is left with no alternative but to "mutually part ways". I am convinced that his first words after the season ended were that the coach had to go. Do I think that he should have talked? For sure. The last thing in the world I wanted to hear was Bean talking about hockey. Reminds me of Alex Delvecchio always talking about what the Wings were doing, no matter how always bad. Oh, wait, no, it's the opposite of that. Alex is solid. Who wants to be our Phil Esposito and sell this mess to the public? @cross16, when's your interview? Let's do this thing.lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted April 22, 2023 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2023 10 hours ago, conundrumed said: Reminds me of Alex Delvecchio always talking about what the Wings were doing, no matter how always bad. Oh, wait, no, it's the opposite of that. Alex is solid. Who wants to be our Phil Esposito and sell this mess to the public? @cross16, when's your interview? Let's do this thing.lol I have my phone on standby.. hasn't rang yet i'm afraid.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted April 23, 2023 Report Share Posted April 23, 2023 On 4/17/2023 at 3:14 PM, travel_dude said: Modern ideas BT was hamstrung to get away from Burke hockey and the owners tied his hands making decisions. BT brought in modern analytics to this team. Sutter is about as old school as you can get, ranks up there with Muller on the PP. Fresh - that's funny since it was the coaching decisions to not play fresh player but rely on the vet leadership. If we are performing surgery, which I doubt, then need to remove the abscess. The coaching failed. No matter if you consider the players underperformed or not, the coaching was unable to get enough out of the team. That is a major fail. Most teams start with the coach and GM. They don't just hang it on the GM. I don't think he did.. Chris Snow was hired to setup & handle analytics in 2011 and BT was hired in April 28, 2014. So Chris Snow was brought in under Jay Feasters tenure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted April 23, 2023 Report Share Posted April 23, 2023 2 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said: I don't think he did.. Chris Snow was hired to setup & handle analytics in 2011 and BT was hired in April 28, 2014. So Chris Snow was brought in under Jay Feasters tenure Was it modern though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted April 23, 2023 Report Share Posted April 23, 2023 1 hour ago, travel_dude said: Was it modern though? Yes he came from the Wild and brought his stats program with him. The one that tracks all the extended stats and keeps vids of tendancies and much more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted April 23, 2023 Report Share Posted April 23, 2023 Modern analytics is finished guys. Time to train AI to do all scouting and prospect prediction models. Feed the AI 999,999,999,999 hours of hockey footage dating back to the first VHS tape recordings from all leagues including Juniors, College, AHL, WHA, Europe, Timbits, etc. After the AI is trained, run some video of, for example, Nate Danielson and ask the AI to project how good he will be in his prime. Feed the AI 5 years worth of hockey footage of the Flames and then for example, 5 years of the Colorado Avalanche. Then ask the AI how to beat the the Avalanche in a 7 game series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted April 23, 2023 Report Share Posted April 23, 2023 3 hours ago, The_People1 said: Modern analytics is finished guys. Time to train AI to do all scouting and prospect prediction models. Feed the AI 999,999,999,999 hours of hockey footage dating back to the first VHS tape recordings from all leagues including Juniors, College, AHL, WHA, Europe, Timbits, etc. After the AI is trained, run some video of, for example, Nate Danielson and ask the AI to project how good he will be in his prime. Feed the AI 5 years worth of hockey footage of the Flames and then for example, 5 years of the Colorado Avalanche. Then ask the AI how to beat the the Avalanche in a 7 game series. Another failed attempt to apply the law of averages to something littered with variables? What could possibly go wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flames-fan-in-jets-land Posted April 23, 2023 Report Share Posted April 23, 2023 6 hours ago, conundrumed said: Another failed attempt to apply the law of averages to something littered with variables? What could possibly go wrong? Underperform, miss the playoff, and miss a lotto pick?............oh wait. AI is already amongst us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted April 23, 2023 Report Share Posted April 23, 2023 8 hours ago, conundrumed said: Another failed attempt to apply the law of averages to something littered with variables? What could possibly go wrong? This sounds like a question for ChatGPT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted April 23, 2023 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2023 13 hours ago, travel_dude said: Was it modern though? Deeds is right. Snow brought analytics to the Flames under Feaster. Snow has always been regarded as a top analytics guy and i do recall hearing that the programs they initially invested in were top notch. Treliving did expand it thought. Hired David Johnston shortly after he was hired and then added 2 more 2 years ago I believe. But it was Feaster who brought it here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted April 23, 2023 Report Share Posted April 23, 2023 38 minutes ago, cross16 said: Deeds is right. Snow brought analytics to the Flames under Feaster. Snow has always been regarded as a top analytics guy and i do recall hearing that the programs they initially invested in were top notch. Treliving did expand it thought. Hired David Johnston shortly after he was hired and then added 2 more 2 years ago I believe. But it was Feaster who brought it here. What are your thoughts on AI taking over scouting and player projections? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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