2023 Offseason

[sak22]

1 minute ago, phoenix66 said:

Sounds to me like Lindholm holds the keys to the car.  Older players want to win..so players like Toffoli , Tanev and Backlund don't have the luxury of one or 2 years to be a contender again.. so I'm not all that surprised they're taking a lead and waiting on Lindholm..

If Lindholm stays long term, then that will and Should have a ripple effect .. Hanifin I believe was always going to be plan b in terms of trade bait to fill that top line .. 

 

If it should happen ..both Lindholm and Hanifin should get you a haul of picks , players and prospects ..Lindholm more so 

 

But in sorry. We are not capable of a tank rebuild even if we had the go ahead ... Unless he asks to be moved markstrom  isn't going anywhere ..he has a full nmc.. under no circumstances should we be sweetening any pots to take him ,  Kadri and or Huberdeau . .  Or you're giving up the very picks you are trying to cash in on .

 

But I also fully agree with Conroy at this point .. if you don't wanna be here , then go .. we don't want you . 

If we get last years Markstrom we shouldn't be worried.

[phoenix66]

1 minute ago, sak22 said:

If we get last years Markstrom we shouldn't be worried.

Ironically Markstrom is at his best when he's getting peppered with shots .. 

[The_People1]

1 minute ago, phoenix66 said:

But in sorry. We are not capable of a tank rebuild even if we had the go ahead ... Unless he asks to be moved markstrom  isn't going anywhere ..he has a full nmc.. under no circumstances should we be sweetening any pots to take him ,  Kadri and or Huberdeau . .  Or you're giving up the very picks you are trying to cash in on .

 

I respectfully disagree.  Markstrom would be perfect for tanking.  .895% and he's a vet, unlike Wolf, who we want this psychology to not get damaged.  

 

Take Hanifin, Lindholm, and Backlund away from Markstrom... Oof is that sv% ever going back above 920?  No way.

 

If Lindholm leaves, then Markstrom lost his best friend on the team.  He would waive to go elsewhere.  Problem then would be no one wants him.

[sak22]

1 minute ago, phoenix66 said:

Ironically Markstrom is at his best when he's getting peppered with shots .. 

Yeah, that was more his Canuck days but even in those days they were near the bottom of the league.

[phoenix66]

1 minute ago, The_People1 said:

 

I respectfully disagree.  Markstrom would be perfect for tanking.  .895% and he's a vet, unlike Wolf, who we want this psychology to not get damaged.  

 

Take Hanifin, Lindholm, and Backlund away from Markstrom... Oof is that sv% ever going back above 920?  No way.

 

If Lindholm leaves, then Markstrom lost his best friend on the team.  He would waive to go elsewhere.  Problem then would be no one wants him.

People keep forgetting . So many players had bad years ..and as much as it disgusts me that players quit on a coach like Sutter ..I can also see the truth that Sutter mishandled all these players ..   they all may not be as good as their career seasons but they all are way better than what they showed last year ..Huberdeau needs to be able to be let loose ..markstrom needs to not play 90% of the games .. 

 

Even if Markstrom asks to leave .. he can only go where he wants to go . And teams he likely would agree to(contenders ) don't need him .. teams that need a #1 goalie , are worse than us.. 

 Let's rewind ..do you really think , based on how they all had bad years.. we would have been worse than we were with Martin Necas Instead of Huberdeau?  And an extra first round #28 pick ? 

 

Even if all these players leave ..were too good to tank ..still . So may as well go for it ..

Plus ..people never factor in the excitement of a rookie has on his team .   Look how well Seattle did this year 

[The_People1]

15 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

People keep forgetting . So many players had bad years ..and as much as it disgusts me that players quit on a coach like Sutter ..I can also see the truth that Sutter mishandled all these players ..   they all may not be as good as their career seasons but they all are way better than what they showed last year ..Huberdeau needs to be able to be let loose ..markstrom needs to not play 90% of the games .. 

 

Even if Markstrom asks to leave .. he can only go where he wants to go . And teams he likely would agree to(contenders ) don't need him .. teams that need a #1 goalie , are worse than us.. 

 Let's rewind ..do you really think , based on how they all had bad years.. we would have been worse than we were with Martin Necas Instead of Huberdeau?  And an extra first round #28 pick ? 

 

Even if all these players leave ..were too good to tank ..still . So may as well go for it ..

Plus ..people never factor in the excitement of a rookie has on his team .   Look how well Seattle did this year 

 

Markstrom also happens to be 33-years-old though.  Bounce backs don't usually happen at that age.  Yes, once in awhile you get a Joe Pavelski type season from an old vet.  I'm not betting on Markstrom ever returning to top 10 in the NHL especially with a weaker blueline after Hanifin gets moved.

 

And so going back to tanking, it's more probable that Markstrom causes us to lose games more than steal games for us.  Keep him if we are tanking.  No need to trade him.

[sak22]

7 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

People keep forgetting . So many players had bad years ..and as much as it disgusts me that players quit on a coach like Sutter ..I can also see the truth that Sutter mishandled all these players ..   they all may not be as good as their career seasons but they all are way better than what they showed last year ..Huberdeau needs to be able to be let loose ..markstrom needs to not play 90% of the games .. 

 

Even if Markstrom asks to leave .. he can only go where he wants to go . And teams he likely would agree to(contenders ) don't need him .. teams that need a #1 goalie , are worse than us.. 

 Let's rewind ..do you really think , based on how they all had bad years.. we would have been worse than we were with Martin Necas Instead of Huberdeau?  And an extra first round #28 pick ? 

 

Even if all these players leave ..were too good to tank ..still . So may as well go for it ..

Plus ..people never factor in the excitement of a rookie has on his team .   Look how well Seattle did this year 

The rookie in Seattle was a #2 pick, outside of him they might have had an older team than the Flames.  I don't hold the same optimism, if it were 1 or 2 guys maybe I'd still hold out hope, but 4 if rough especially when that includes the top 2 scorers.  Even if Huberdeau returns to form I just don't believe there is enough depth, don't forget Tampa bottomed out while still having St. Louis and Lecavalier playing at a high level, Chicago was awful last year despite still having Kane and Debrincat put up good numbers.  Last year they were 5th in the division and tied with Vancouver for wins, add in that Vancouver played better under Tocchet, barring some sort of miracle to the Flames roster I don't see them higher than 6th next year and that's only because I don't see Anaheim or San Jose taking much of a step next year.

[phoenix66]

13 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Markstrom also happens to be 33-years-old though.  Bounce backs don't usually happen at that age.  Yes, once in awhile you get a Joe Pavelski type season from an old vet.  I'm not betting on Markstrom ever returning to top 10 in the NHL especially with a weaker blueline after Hanifin gets moved.

 

And so going back to tanking, it's more probable that Markstrom causes us to lose games more than steal games for us.  Keep him if we are tanking.  No need to trade him.

But even in that scenario then they put in Wolf and the kid gets hot... I tell ya we are too good to tank..

 

I can totally see a Calgary Toronto trade happening now ... 

[The_People1]

8 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

But even in that scenario then they put in Wolf and the kid gets hot... I tell ya we are too good to tank..

 

I can totally see a Calgary Toronto trade happening now ... 

 

I think one key trade to make would be Weegar to BUF for 13oa + Krebs.

 

BUF badly needs a top pair RHS RD.

 

Krebs is an Okotoks boy.  It would be coming home for him... Someone we can be sure would want to play here his whole career.  2nd line C potential... Or even a 1B type.

 

13oa, we can pick a D to replace Weegar.

 

If we can worsen the D by one more, then I think we can tank with the best of them.

[phoenix66]

2 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I think one key trade to make would be Weegar to BUF for 13oa + Krebs.

 

BUF badly needs a top pair RHS RD.

 

Krebs is an Okotoks boy.  It would be coming home for him... Someone we can be sure would want to play here his whole career.  2nd line C potential... Or even a 1B type.

 

13oa, we can pick a D to replace Weegar.

 

If we can worsen the D by one more, then I think we can tank with the best of them.

in terms of players who would be in demand and tradeable , Id say Weegar and Anderson are the 2 players not going anywhere .. in fact, if the dust settles the way the winds are blowing , either of those 2 are the next captain 

[The_People1]

12 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

in terms of players who would be in demand and tradeable , Id say Weegar and Anderson are the 2 players not going anywhere .. in fact, if the dust settles the way the winds are blowing , either of those 2 are the next captain 

 

Don't trade Andersson.  He's young enough that he will still be in his prime when we done our rebuild.  Weegar though, he can be traded to accelerate our rebuild but we must act before his NMC kicks in July 1.

[sak22]

1 minute ago, The_People1 said:

 

Don't trade Andersson.  He's young enough that he will still be in his prime when we done our rebuild.  Weegar though, he can be traded to accelerate our rebuild but we must act before his NMC kicks in July 1.

Will he want to stay beyond his 3 years remaining on his contract?  I'm in no rush to move him, but if a rebuild is in the cards it might need to be evaluated next year.

[tmac70]

So IMHO the issues just run deeper. Older players want to win younger guys looking at the team, coach, and team going I like my chances elsewhere. As much as I would prefer we just wave the white towel and try to rebuild, have to agree with Peeps, it going to be a retool with Satoshi Nakamoto contracts with Bubble gum to plug the holes in the dam once again. 

 

So what are these guys worth in a sign and trade or trade right now; Could we get 4 firsts for Lindholm, Backs, Hanifin and Toffoli?

 

 

 

 

[Sarasti]

34 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

So IMHO the issues just run deeper. Older players want to win younger guys looking at the team, coach, and team going I like my chances elsewhere. As much as I would prefer we just wave the white towel and try to rebuild, have to agree with Peeps, it going to be a retool with Satoshi Nakamoto contracts with Bubble gum to plug the holes in the dam once again. 

 

So what are these guys worth in a sign and trade or trade right now; Could we get 4 firsts for Lindholm, Backs, Hanifin and Toffoli?

 

 

 

 

 

I think you could for sure get a 1st for Lindy and Hanifin among other assets.

Toffoli may fetch one from the right team.

I think for Backlund you'd probably have to throw in a later pick to recoup a first in a deal with him.

[Sarasti]

Assuming Backlund and Toffoli for sure want to be traded i think you could potentially hang onto them until the deadline to try and maximize a return from a contender looking for a missing piece.

 

Risky with Toffoli though as his value probably wont be higher than it is right now.

[The_People1]

15 minutes ago, Sarasti said:

Assuming Backlund and Toffoli for sure want to be traded i think you could potentially hang onto them until the deadline to try and maximize a return from a contender looking for a missing piece.

 

Risky with Toffoli though as his value probably wont be higher than it is right now.

 

Ya just sell high.  Don't risk them having a bad year.

[sagacity7]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ya just sell high.  Don't risk them having a bad year.

 

 

2 hours ago, Sarasti said:

Assuming Backlund and Toffoli for sure want to be traded i think you could potentially hang onto them until the deadline to try and maximize a return from a contender looking for a missing piece.

 

Risky with Toffoli though as his value probably wont be higher than it is right now.

Backlund at the deadline and Toffoli now would be best unless there’s a team that really wants Backlund and offers you a first now. Both guys would net a first rounder in the lower quarter of the draft as it is right now. Maybe you could get a young 3rd liner who’s not moving up the roster with their current team instead of a first.

[sagacity7]

So if we lose a few players who want out what free agent signings would Conroy be looking at? Carcone? Drouin - his value may never be lower? Would Philips be willing to sign here on a one way deal? O’Reilly perhaps?

[robrob74]

Could this be a bad time to go into a rebuild due to the Monahan deal? I read that a fan looked until it and that puck Montreal got, they said, could be a Flames pick that is anywhere from 2-32 in 2025 I think they said?

[The_People1]

56 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

Could this be a bad time to go into a rebuild due to the Monahan deal? I read that a fan looked until it and that puck Montreal got, they said, could be a Flames pick that is anywhere from 2-32 in 2025 I think they said?

 

This is the official wording,

 

https://www.capfriendly.com/draft/2024?pick=5

[Heartbreaker]

28 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

This is the official wording,

 

https://www.capfriendly.com/draft/2024?pick=5

 

That trade sucks so much, and for all the pain that we've endured, I still think that's a bullet in the chamber that we're gonna eat. Nazem Kadri is a fine player, but one year of Monohan, even in a significantly reduced role, was the better option every single day.

 

Love.

[jjgallow]

9 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

Ironically Markstrom is at his best when he's getting peppered with shots .. 

 

That way, some are bound to hit him

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, Heartbreaker said:

 

That trade sucks so much, and for all the pain that we've endured, I still think that's a bullet in the chamber that we're gonna eat. Nazem Kadri is a fine player, but one year of Monohan, even in a significantly reduced role, was the better option every single day.

 

Love.

 

I get the theory that bt was forced by the owners but even then I just don't see a competent gm doing some of the things he did.

 

They were low iq moves,  then and now.   I don't see how an owner could invent something this dumb.

[jjgallow]

4 hours ago, robrob74 said:

Could this be a bad time to go into a rebuild due to the Monahan deal? I read that a fan looked until it and that puck Montreal got, they said, could be a Flames pick that is anywhere from 2-32 in 2025 I think they said?

 

We will have to navigate that.   Will take me another year to understand what bt signed lol.

 

Much of our rebuild could actually be centered around selling our vets for picks.    And a rebuild over 5 years means 5 natural 1st round picks.   So yes,  losing one of those picks could push the rebuild to 6-7 years as previously estimated here.

 

But it won't kill the rebuild,  just delay it.

 

Not sure if tanking for #1 is a loophole, and even I don't love this.   But could be a potential out.

[Adrian_Flames_Fan]

Hello everyone, I am new to the forum and a CGY Flames fan from Switzerland. 
Unfortunately I didn't find a forum to introduce myself, but I will keep looking 🙂 If someone can tell me, that would be great! 

I am a bit split between rebuilt or retooling. 

Personally, I think that it makes no sense after Huby, Kadri and Weegsi have their longer-term contracts to give Lindy a 5+ contract. 

For me as an outsider and not Canadian it is better for the club now, where it is still possible to get profit from the players who are not 100% committed to the club.

I would: 
Trade: Hanifin, Toffoli, Backs (if he wants more than a 2 year contract). 
Keep and look at the TDL: Lindy, Tanev.

If possible the 3 trades so that there are picks (2023) and young players close or ready to play NHL Hockey. 

What really hurts in in whole is that the 1Rd pick could be gone in 2024 or 2025.... Depending on which MTL gets from us. 

 

The thing is, the only "information" on talks I get here are Twitter, this forum and some headliners in the net... so I really don't know what is accurat news and what is "looking for klicks" news 🤷‍♂️