2022 Offseason

[Thebrewcrew]

I was hoping for Kadri in 2019, then the reports of the vetoed trade came out which was unfortunate.

 

He has outperformed his contract. I think he ends up going to whichever team gives him 7 years. Duchene got 8x7, so I imagine that’s what he would ask for.

 

Kadri and Forsberg are two of the biggest names on the market. I don’t see them landing with the Flames out of the other 31 clubs 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, phoenix66 said:

I would totally go after Chycrun.. hed be a guy id consider Hanifin in a trade..  

I wanna see Valimaki with Tanev next year, I love what Kyllington did this year but Valimaki skill and ceiling is way higher ..and Tanev is a dman whisperer .

I'm not sold on trading Tkachuk but Arizona isn't looking for stars they're looking to coast .. Hanifin Dube and kyllington might get you Chycrun+ and clear space for a couple farm kids like Pelletier

 

I believe the TDL rumour was, ARI asked for 4 first round picks or equivalent.  Obviously no one paid that price.  If Hanifin + Dube + Kylington gets it done then I would be surprised.

[JTech780]

Can we buy out Monahan if he is injured? I thought there was something where an injury can prevent a buy out.

 

For me the biggest story line this offseason is going to be Tkachuk. Is going to sign long term? Do we want him signed long term? What is the cost? 

 

Don't get me wrong I love Tkachuk, but I think his game comes with limitations. He is one of the worst skaters in the league and history suggests that that is only going to get worse over time. He can keep up in the regular season and his smarts cover up a lot of his weaknesses, but when the game speeds up he seems to struggle.

 

I think it would be prudent to see what the trade market looks like for him. Not that I want to trade him, but his cost, the fact he probably won't sign long term, and the fact that his game will probably depreciate sooner rather than later makes me think it would be smart to trade him now.while his value is at its highest.

[cross16]

27 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Can we buy out Monahan if he is injured? I thought there was something where an injury can prevent a buy out.

 

You can but in an injury situation the player has to agree to the buyout. 

 

However, based on his recovery timeline I'm pretty sure he will be recovered and "healthy" by the time the buyout window is open so I'm not sure he will qualify as an injured player. I may be wrong though. 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Here's the problem with your login.  Hanifin has 7 full years in the NHL.  No injuries of more a 12 games in a season.  Kylington had zero playoff time and got stuck trying to adapt to playing with guys he was not used to.  And he has just one complete season after sitting out all but 8 games.  Hanifin is what you see and will never be any better.  Kylington is an unfinished product.  I'm not saying don't use him in a trade with his value high, but what are you getting for him?

 

If other GMs think that highly of Kylington then that's great.  I would like to get back an early second round pick if we can.  Let someone else pay him top 4 money.

[cross16]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Same is true of Forsberg, but not to the same extent.  Another winger.

 

 

I don't expect the Flames to be active in UFA this year and certainly not for top end players. Wouldn't be shocked to see some trades but I think they are going to look to run it back and improve from within. 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

I'm very confident that if you put Valimaki in that role you'd be fine (probably better) because Tanev is just that good. 

 

I believe that's the logical move but I'm kind of skeptical about Valimaki.  He was so bad the first few weeks of the season.  I haven't been following his play in Stockton but hopefully he's come aong way.  I'm not as optimistic as others on him.

[robrob74]

6 hours ago, MP5029 said:

Actually JJ is more of a realist…maybe comes off a bit negative but I think that’s been a bit of frustration over the past few years of doing the same thing and expecting different results…

 

anyway, they did get to the 2 ns round so that’s definitely an improvement so there are a lot of positives to take

out of this season, something to build

around but a few questions:

 

1. no 1st rounder..that’s gonna hurt

 

2. cap crunch 

 

3. the other point is like to make, is I can’t help but feel if Monahan had not been hurt, the team would have been much better not Only vs Edm, but Dal and well ever since Monahan’s season ended, they were not quite the same.  He may not have been scoring like we are accustom to, but he is one of the best FO and PP specialist in the game and it was very much noticed since his season ended. The problem here is he’s been hurt a lot and his scoring has dipped so his trade value is gonna be low, his cap hit is high and it’s hard to replace that FO and PP experience even if he were to be traded for a high return…so this makes things even harder.

 

add in it was a good season, a second round playoff appearance and a lot of RFA and UFA’s to re-sign and/or trade well, I really don’t want to have BT’s job…

 

Usually I have suggestions and I may later but it’s gonna take some serious thinking this time…I may just watch and wait this season it’s pretty complicated so for now good luck BT hope you have some sort of plan moving forward🤞

 

Anyway disappointing to

loose, especially to

Edm… but still a good season good work by all congrats 2022 flames! 

 

Through a bit of tutelage of Sutter, maybe not, BT did a good job last off season finding players that compete. Too bad a few deadline deals didn’t quite work out, but could have been good adds. 
 

i hope they can make it work next year. 

[cross16]

2 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I believe that's the logical move but I'm kind of skeptical about Valimaki.  He was so bad the first few weeks of the season.  I haven't been following his play in Stockton but hopefully he's come aong way.  I'm not as optimistic as others on him.

 

That's fair. He didn't exactly tear up Stockton the way you would want or expect for a prospect of his caliber. The results aren't there so far in his career and the arc isn't fantastic but the skill set is still there and with the injury history he has had you sometimes just never know. Sometimes a player just needs the right opportunity and I think it's time to give it to him and see what happens. 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

- I think the Oilers exposed the Flames d core as not been as deep and as good as it looked. I think the Flames were able to be strategic and cover up for the likes of Kylington, Gudbranson and Hanifin in the regular season but I thought all 3 got exposed in the playoffs. Now I don't suspect Hanifin is going anywhere and he has some strengths but I personally don't think he is a great defender. The Flames could really use a top end dman who can be good at both ends of the ice. VERY tough to find that though...

 

I was okay with Gudbranson.  He didn't step up or anything but was steady in a depth role.  He was solid in the DAL series and very good in the regular season.  If he would come back for $2-mil again then we should do it.  It's hard to find RHS RD with size and toughness.  He's found a home on Sutter's system so I hope he enjoyed it enough to come back again.  I don't want to pay him more though.

 

Hanifin and Kylington, yes agreed.  I don't mind Hanifin but he can't come back as a top pair guy.  He needs to play second pairing.  Against second tier players, he's good.  Good range, good skating, has found confidence skating down the side boards in the offensive zone, etc.

 

To much of my surprise, Zadorov came to play.  Ya he still couldn't handle McDavid but McDavid was not easy to handle.  Zadorov is such a pain to play against.  Very agitating, pesky, dirty when he needs to be, etc.  He's that guy you love on your team and hate to play against.  Yes he takes adventures skating the puck out the zone but all in all, this is a player who had a positive impact on the ice.  I think we should bring him back again, even at the expense of Gudbranson.

[phoenix66]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

I like Kadri too but Kadri previously blocked a trade to Calgary.  He will once again have more options than Calgary so no way he comes here.  I wouldn't bother targetting a guy who doesn't want to be here.

Have to go back to why he blocked it ..  says it caught him unaware and that he wanted to stay in Toronto.. said he thought blocking the trade meant he'd stay, didn't realize they were going to move him no matter what .. if hed known he said and had to do it over again Calgary was a place he wouid have chosen 

[robrob74]

One thing about Kylington that I wonder would play in his season. 
 

he looked great in the first half. The first half is easier than the second half.

 

I haven’t had a chance to look, but how many games has be played in the previous 2-3 seasons leading up to this season? Maybe a full season when we add all of that together? 
 

i wonder if the experience this year can translate to a more consistent season next. He might have gotten fatigued due to playing such little hockey. 90 plus games in one season is a lot more than he has played in the last 2 years prior, and it was in the NHL where he has had some games, but was also thrust into 2nd pair roles. 
 

i can’t say for sure he will translate the experience to next year and play better. Maybe he’ll be a good 3rd pair. Maybe it is a good time to bet on a trade dealing him. 
 

we had a lot of positives this year it was fun to watch. It’ll be hard to build the team next year, and other teams will improve too, so next year can be challenging. They surprised some of us this year. Can they sustain it next year? 
 

if they can keep them together we have a top 5 line in the league. A decent top 4 and losing Tanev hurt. Does he require surgery on his shoulder? Would he need some of the season to recover? 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

- Flames have to upgrade at center ice and they need someone who can dish the puck. I thought the way the Oilers defended the Flames exposed the lack of skill in the Flames forward group. They've got some shooters, they got some high end guys away from the puck and they are fast enough, but what they lack is players who can get the puck into high danger areas especially through tight windows. 

- I'd have some interest in brining back Janrkok but not at center. I think he is a solid winger but I don't think he is good enough playing center to keep. 

- Need to move on from Monahan IMO and it may take a buyout

- I'd actually explore the possibility of moving Toffoli as a way to upgrade. I don't want him gone necessarily but I thikn he is a piece you could maybe use to get better and i'm just not sure he is the best fit for them moving forward. 

 

Agreed we need to upgrade Center.  There are some via UFA but cap space will be so tight after signing Gaudreau and Tkachuk that there's just no way to be buyers in UFA.  We need to be offloading contracts this summer or we need to trade Tkachuk for a Center.

 

I am urgent to move Toffoli because I think he's trending James Neal.  If he's actually a piece to use to upgrade elsewhere then that's even better.  I think the way things are going for him here, he's trending buyout candidate by mid-next season.  There simply is no Center to get him the puck to score.

[travel_dude]

14 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

To much of my surprise, Zadorov came to play.  Ya he still couldn't handle McDavid but McDavid was not easy to handle.  Zadorov is such a pain to play against.  Very agitating, pesky, dirty when he needs to be, etc.  He's that guy you love on your team and hate to play against.  Yes he takes adventures skating the puck out the zone but all in all, this is a player who had a positive impact on the ice.  I think we should bring him back again, even at the expense of Gudbranson.

 

I'm up and down on Zaddy.  Not worth the deal he signed, but that was circumstance.  Had no control.

If we traded Kylington, then we need someone to play bottom 2.  

Really, our depth was exposed after the Dallas series.

Valimaki should have subbed in, but he wasn't close to Kylington's level at that point.

We had 5 healthy guys and some spot guys available.

 

If we could get a #1 LD, then keep Hanifin with Tanev.

Trade Kylington at his highest value.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Scheifele would be a great target.  I assume it's true he wants a fresh start and the Jets want to try something new next season.  Based on Tkachuk's 100-point season and the fact he's RFA controlled while Scheifele only has 2-years to UFA, I believe Tkachuk's trade value is higher.

 

That said, I think the Flames biggest need is a #1 LD and maybe it's best to use Tkachuk to get one.  If Chychrun is not available, then how about try Chabot from OTT using Tkachuk?  Let OTT unite the Tkachuk brothers.  That would be fun.  OTT has Jake Sanderson so maybe they would spare Chabot.  If we trade him home to St.Louis, then we want more than Krug back.

In all honestly I think that would be the place for him to go if  it comes to that.   Depending on what the value of Chucky ends up an exchange of Chucky/Hanifin for Chabot/Batherson or Norris may be a good start.

[phoenix66]

4 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Agreed we need to upgrade Center.  There are some via UFA but cap space will be so tight after signing Gaudreau and Tkachuk that there's just no way to be buyers in UFA.  We need to be offloading contracts this summer or we need to trade Tkachuk for a Center.

 

I am urgent to move Toffoli because I think he's trending James Neal.  If he's actually a piece to use to upgrade elsewhere then that's even better.  I think the way things are going for him here, he's trending buyout candidate by mid-next season.  There simply is no Center to get him the puck to score.

I believe there are going to be moves made that will be unpopular..there has to be , rolling it back is impossible 

 

I actually keep Toffoli.. he lost his center shortly after getting here and unlike Neal he still generated his own chances ..plus he does good things without the puck too

 it's about chemistry and a full season makes a difference..it's why I've always had low expectations for big name TDL deals 

 

Could we let Johnny walk if it meant adding a better center ? Is Pelletier as good as people say and could step into Johnny's spot ?

Would we miss Johnny and Chucky if we added say Tarasenko and Kadri?

 

Heck.. could we trade Markstrom knowing Vladar looked good and wolf could be ready for next step? Maybe good enough to even steal the spot?

 

So many questions..so many options ..and some will be unpopular 

[The_People1]

6 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

In all honestly I think that would be the place for him to go if  it comes to that.   Depending on what the value of Chucky ends up an exchange of Chucky/Hanifin for Chabot/Batherson or Norris may be a good start.

 

Ya not sure what's Tkachuk's trade value.  Is it high enough to land two studs like Chabot + Batherson/Norris?

 

Batherson is a #1 RW signed to a bargain deal.  Norris ended up being a 35-goal scoring #1 Center for OTT this season.  I imagine his new deal will be around $7-mil x 6 or so?  Chabot is the real deal in my opinion but had problems staying healthy.  But he's a legit #1 LD who can play in all situations and log big minutes.

[flames for life]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Here's the problem with your login.  Hanifin has 7 full years in the NHL.  No injuries of more a 12 games in a season.  Kylington had zero playoff time and got stuck trying to adapt to playing with guys he was not used to.  And he has just one complete season after sitting out all but 8 games.  Hanifin is what you see and will never be any better.  Kylington is an unfinished product.  I'm not saying don't use him in a trade with his value high, but what are you getting for him?

 

Hanifin + Kylington ++ for Chychrun.  We fill the bottom pair with young cheap LD and Guddy.  We give Valimaki the Tanev treatment.

 

If you trade Tkachuk, then we have lost a regular season impact player.  And we best not have to play him much.  I'm on the fence about trading him.  His salary may kill us, but we would need a Forsberg to replace his minutes and scoring.  Not sure what happened in the playoffs with him, he sure didn't help his line much. 

 

I said this in another thread.

Convince Lucic to retire, after you pay his bonus.  There's not much left for him to accomplish if anything.

Move Hanifin.

Re-sign Guddy.

Get Reaves instead of needing to rely on Zaddy.

Tough team maintained.

Sign Gaudreau and Tkachuk and Bread.

Depending on the target, move Kylington.

Move Dube.

 

We need a balance of playmakers and finishers.

Tkachuk was a bit of both, but playing with a playmaker.

We don't really have a fit for Dube and he didn't take off this year.

Monahan will likely need to go, but not because of his salary, if we make other moves.

He might get the magic back, but I'm not holding my breath.

If he could C a line with Pelletier, that might just get him back to scoring.

Bring back Jarnkrok and play him on RW.  

I think moving Dube would be a mistake, as really, this was his first full year of Nhl experience.  He started make headway in the latter half of the season when others were dissipating.  His speed is neede on the team but he needs to learn to use the inside of the ice more so than the boards.  His versatility was needed in the first round as he played numerous positions and lines.

As much as I liked Kylington, I tend to agree we are seeing what we will get with him.  He faltered in the latter half, but I really don’t think he played the same after getting his bell wrung so badly.  Trading him now opens up for Valimaaki or another D.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

9 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

I believe there are going to be moves made that will be unpopular..there has to be , rolling it back is impossible 

 

I actually keep Toffoli.. he lost his center shortly after getting here and unlike Neal he still generated his own chances ..plus he does good things without the puck too

 it's about chemistry and a full season makes a difference..it's why I've always had low expectations for big name TDL deals 

 

Could we let Johnny walk if it meant adding a better center ? Is Pelletier as good as people say and could step into Johnny's spot ?

Would we miss Johnny and Chucky if we added say Tarasenko and Kadri?

 

Heck.. could we trade Markstrom knowing Vladar looked good and wolf could be ready for next step? Maybe good enough to even steal the spot?

 

So many questions..so many options ..and some will be unpopular 

I would have to be a hell of a center to make any deal involving Johnny seem like the right move.

 

Tarasenko is 50 years old and Kadri is usually in the officials crosshairs already. In a Flames uni he would prob be in the box constantly.

 

I know it wasnt an ideal outcome but this was the most successful playoff in how many years? These sound more like burn it down moves.

 

 

[The_People1]

11 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

 Could we let Johnny walk if it meant adding a better center ? Is Pelletier as good as people say and could step into Johnny's spot ?

Would we miss Johnny and Chucky if we added say Tarasenko and Kadri?

 

Well firstly, I still stand by my take that if we lose Gaudreau via UFA then BT should get fired.

 

If we lose Gaudreau, then we might as well blow it up and rebuild.  He is pretty much our entire offense.  Without him, Tkachuk and Lindholm are 60-point players.  Our forwards were exposed in the playoffs as lacking high end skill as is.  Couldn't break Oettinger's forcefield and couldn't get by the Oilers average blueline.  Losing Gaudreau means we don't have a top line. There is no replacement for Gaudreau via UFA.

[phoenix66]

4 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

I would have to be a hell of a center to make any deal involving Johnny seem like the right move.

 

Tarasenko is 50 years old and Kadri is usually in the officials crosshairs already. In a Flames uni he would prob be in the box constantly.

 

I know it wasnt an ideal outcome but this was the most successful playoff in how many years? These sound more like burn it down moves.

 

 

Johnny is only a year younger than Tarasenko, and he showed this year he's healthy after a previous botched surgery .. he's got as many years left in the tank as Johnny has but still has a year left at 7.5 when worst case Monahan and Lucic will both be off the books 

Kadri is a 30+ goal center who plays what we need for style .. Sutter wouid bring out even more of the best of him 

[phoenix66]

16 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Well firstly, I still stand by my take that if we lose Gaudreau via UFA then BT should get fired.

 

If we lose Gaudreau, then we might as well blow it up and rebuild.  He is pretty much our entire offense.  Without him, Tkachuk and Lindholm are 60-point players.  Our forwards were exposed in the playoffs as lacking high end skill as is.  Couldn't break Oettinger's forcefield and couldn't get by the Oilers average blueline.  Losing Gaudreau means we don't have a top line. There is no replacement for Gaudreau via UFA.

First to be clear I'm not promoting these changes, just pointing out that some unpopular ones may be necessary.. but at the same time I don't think we give Lindholm especially enough credit 

Personally I don't think Johnny goes anywhere unless he gets a close to home deal that he can't refuse 

[travel_dude]

25 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

Could we let Johnny walk if it meant adding a better center ? Is Pelletier as good as people say and could step into Johnny's spot ?

Would we miss Johnny and Chucky if we added say Tarasenko and Kadri?

 

Heck.. could we trade Markstrom knowing Vladar looked good and wolf could be ready for next step? Maybe good enough to even steal the spot?

 

 

You never let your franchise player walk.  He wasn't the most dynamic player in the playoffs, but he was one of the best.  You don't take him out and expect to be close to a playoff team.  That's why he was a Hart consideration.  MVP to the team.

 

You want Tarasenko?  Sure, but he replaces Tkachuk for a shorter period of time.  And you would need to get another player with him.  

[travel_dude]

As far as Pelletier, I think he's a slightly different version of Gaudreau.

Passer, yes, but 100% compete level or that's what I have heard.

It makes us a little smaller on the wings, but being big up the middle is probably more important.

[phoenix66]

8 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

You never let your franchise player walk.  He wasn't the most dynamic player in the playoffs, but he was one of the best.  You don't take him out and expect to be close to a playoff team.  That's why he was a Hart consideration.  MVP to the team.

 

You want Tarasenko?  Sure, but he replaces Tkachuk for a shorter period of time.  And you would need to get another player with him.  

Again . These are just things that will get brainstormed ..and those targets are just for sake of example .

  do you get into a bidding war and sign Johnny for too much that your forced to lose half your d-core? 

This is gonna be one wild off season and the most pencil sharpening BT will have had to do 

I personally think Johnny if he stays will be 11-12 x8 

Tkachuk , long term will be about 10