It's Game Day Biotches

[robrob74]

1 minute ago, conundrumed said:

I think if you look at lines as pairings, the last thing I want to see is splitting Dube-Mangiapane. That is a great future pairing for us and they're proving it already. They'll only get better together.

yup! I can see that. It’s just shuffle board again as we try to make the rest of the lineup work. It is too bad they didn’t try Bennett between them for awhile last year. They would be killer together. And Bennett already showed signs of meshing very well with Dube.

[robrob74]

Just now, conundrumed said:

Be patient. Lewis and Lucic could be it. 3 experienced guys that can control and dictate the pace they want. I think that's what Sutter is aiming for imo. It's only been 1 game.

 

I actually think Lucic is better than I or we give him credit for. He plays a simple game that allows him to be in the right place at the right time and it’s on and off his stick fast when it needs to be to push play forward. He’s not the 50point guy we knew. His contract is killing the perception.

[conundrumed]

Seeing as it's a 1pm EST start tomorrow, t - 12hrs, I guess it's game day biotches.lol

We'll need all we've got vs the Caps.

[conundrumed]

Rocket Doctor gets a 6pm game start as opposed to 3am if you hadn't loved him enough for the spectacular game threads!!!😲😃

[cross16]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

A lot of centers are the trailer man. They're back the deepest supporting the D.

 

Agreed. it's really common and also can be really successful. Sutter seems to prefer speed up the middle but I actually like the idea of fast wingers with slower centers for improved 2 way play. 

 

Also open ups the middle of the ice for Monahan to be the trailer. 

[travel_dude]

Just thought I might post this about Monahan last year.

 

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

Just thought I might post this about Monahan last year.

 

So whos decision is it to have a player play through so much pain for apparently 90% of the season? Thus not giving the player a chance to completely recover, perform @ 100%, or risking cutting a potentially great career short.  Ya theres "playing through the pain" but at some point the team needs to protect their assets.

 

If the argument is that he was needed on the ice to remain competitive than there are way bigger issues. 

[travel_dude]

3 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

So whos decision is it to have a player play through so much pain for apparently 90% of the season? Thus not giving the player a chance to completely recover, perform @ 100%, or risking cutting a potentially great career short.  Ya theres "playing through the pain" but at some point the team needs to protect their assets.

 

If the argument is that he was needed on the ice to remain competitive than there are way bigger issues. 

 

I think sometimes a player will do things that are not the best long term, because they love their job and hate the idea of missing time.

Think about it this way.

If he was on IR last year, he would have been separated from his team mates for the season, stuck in limbo because of COVID, and not able to do the thing that he loves to do.

The training staff are going to let them have some leeway until it becomes unbearable.  And BT is probably not going to shut it down unless the palyer wants it and the training staff agree with it.  Is that the right thing to do?  Who knows.  Better than the staff doc telling him he needs a certain procedure that could impact his career and he may not agree with it.

[redfire11]

42 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

So whos decision is it to have a player play through so much pain for apparently 90% of the season? Thus not giving the player a chance to completely recover, perform @ 100%, or risking cutting a potentially great career short.  Ya theres "playing through the pain" but at some point the team needs to protect their assets.

 

If the argument is that he was needed on the ice to remain competitive than there are way bigger issues. 

Hope Eichel doesn't read this.

[The_People1]

4 hours ago, conundrumed said:

A lot of centers are the trailer man. They're back the deepest supporting the D.

 

There are trailers and then there are wide loads on the slow lane.  Monahan is more than one step behind.

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Agreed. it's really common and also can be really successful. Sutter seems to prefer speed up the middle but I actually like the idea of fast wingers with slower centers for improved 2 way play. 

 

Also open ups the middle of the ice for Monahan to be the trailer. 

 

"Slower" and "slow" are a big difference apart.  Slower is okay.  Slow is not.  Monahan is more often than not, too slow to join the rush.  He's not in the play.

 

His play making skills have also left him.  Earlier in his career he would pull off the side boards or back of the net and make sharp cuts to the slot for shots.  Nowadays, he has no confidence with the puck.  Maybe he doesn't trust his own body to handle hard contact anymore.  He never wants to take the puck and run with it.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

So whos decision is it to have a player play through so much pain for apparently 90% of the season? Thus not giving the player a chance to completely recover, perform @ 100%, or risking cutting a potentially great career short.  Ya theres "playing through the pain" but at some point the team needs to protect their assets.

 

If the argument is that he was needed on the ice to remain competitive than there are way bigger issues. 

I completely agree with this. Even though a doctor is paid by the team, they should have a final say, along with possible sports psychologists and/or physiotherapists. There needs to be better communication on the possible long term effects of injuries like this one. 
 

Monahan probably isn’t even 100% right now. He’s more important to the team long term and fighting through a lost season is ridiculous and shortsighted.

 

plus it stands to show just how little depth the team has.
 

He was also blocking other Centers for getting a chance in the top6. Perfect opportunity to see what we actually had in one we just traded.

[MP5029]

5 hours ago, robrob74 said:

I don’t mind going back to what worked…

 

Gaudreau, Monahan, Lindholm

Tkachuk, Backlund, Mangiapane 

Coleman, Dube, Pitlick

Lucic, Richardson, Lewis 

 

something along those lines? I dunno. But you’re right, maybe Monahan on the 4th is just to catch him up to game shape and speed. After all, he played one preseason game and is coming off a surgery, probably needs to build muscle memory on a new hip.

This could be true…and makes some sense…if I recall, Sutter has been very cautious about Monahan and Hanifin even in the preseason…so it could very well be as simple as he’s being eased back into things and playing sheltered mins…I mean his PP time was good…so he’s obviously being used on that, which generally is where you put your top offensive threats…you know the more I think about this point the more I think this is exactly what they are doing?

[cross16]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

"Slower" and "slow" are a big difference apart.  Slower is okay.  Slow is not.  Monahan is more often than not, too slow to join the rush.  He's not in the play.

 

His play making skills have also left him.  Earlier in his career he would pull off the side boards or back of the net and make sharp cuts to the slot for shots.  Nowadays, he has no confidence with the puck.  Maybe he doesn't trust his own body to handle hard contact anymore.  He never wants to take the puck and run with it.

 

This does not match with the Monahan I've seen through the first few games. 

[cross16]

3 hours ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

So whos decision is it to have a player play through so much pain for apparently 90% of the season? Thus not giving the player a chance to completely recover, perform @ 100%, or risking cutting a potentially great career short.  Ya theres "playing through the pain" but at some point the team needs to protect their assets.

 

If the argument is that he was needed on the ice to remain competitive than there are way bigger issues. 

 

it was very likely a joint decision with consultation between player, training staff and club. It could very easily have been a discussion of player saying I can play through pain, training staff saying he cannot do any further damage, so organization says OK. 

 

At first glance that article makes the organization look bad and certainly didn't make me very happy to read it. At the same time I also think there was likely multiple discussion behind closed doors that we are not privy to that would likely shed light on the situation. If the club forced a player to play through something serious, or pushed them to play through an issue they didn't want that would be a serious issue. 

 

But given the Flames track record with players I would suspect that was not the case. 

[travel_dude]

5 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

it was very likely a joint decision with consultation between player, training staff and club. It could very easily have been a discussion of player saying I can play through pain, training staff saying he cannot do any further damage, so organization says OK. 

 

At first glance that article makes the organization look bad and certainly didn't make me very happy to read it. At the same time I also think there was likely multiple discussion behind closed doors that we are not privy to that would likely shed light on the situation. If the club forced a player to play through something serious, or pushed them to play through an issue they didn't want that would be a serious issue. 

 

But given the Flames track record with players I would suspect that was not the case. 

 

My read was not they forced to play through it.

[MP5029]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

"Slower" and "slow" are a big difference apart.  Slower is okay.  Slow is not.  Monahan is more often than not, too slow to join the rush.  He's not in the play.

 

His play making skills have also left him.  Earlier in his career he would pull off the side boards or back of the net and make sharp cuts to the slot for shots.  Nowadays, he has no confidence with the puck.  Maybe he doesn't trust his own body to handle hard contact anymore.  He never wants to take the puck and run with it.

Peeps….ease up will you, seem to have a serious hate on for Monahan as of

late…read the article on how much pain he was playing with…

 

I’m kinda in the camp that Sutter is sheltering him, and gonna ease him back in to the top lines to which I think is smart, especially after reading how bad his hip was…I think in time, maybe between now and the 1/2 way point we should see Monahan  to his old form..if not than it’s a worse case situation and letting him play on that bad hip could have done some real bad damage he cat recover from…time will tell…though it could also explain why there were no trade takes on Monahan, like Eichle, it’s a huge risk till they get back to form…if they do? 

[MP5029]

32 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

This does not match with the Monahan I've seen through the first few games. 

Unfortunately, I don’t get to see much Flames here in NS…but your comment has me asking…what have you seen of Monahan in the first few games? Dose he seem ok? 
 

that would great news, but also, I can see Sutter sheltering him as long as he can to make sure Monahan is able to withstand more mins…

[MP5029]

6 hours ago, conundrumed said:

I think if you look at lines as pairings, the last thing I want to see is splitting Dube-Mangiapane. That is a great future pairing for us and they're proving it already. They'll only get better together.

I agree and to be honest I’d much rather Coleman on line 2 at RW…Manji and Dube on the 3rd line with Pitlick could be as good as a second line anyway…I mean with what this team has we don’t have any superstars for an elite 1st line but with that said we have and are seeing some emergence of enough star/above average types to have three #2 lines…to which could prove to be an advantage keeping players fresh from start to end game? So with that in mind I’d rather…

 

Gaudreau/Monahan/Lindholm 

Tachuck/Backlund/Coleman 

Manji/Dube/Pitlick 

Lucic/Richardson/Lewis 

 

another option could be to try…

 

Gaudreau/Monahan/Coleman 

Tachuck/Lindholm/Backlund 

Tachuck/Backlund/Lindholm 

Tachuck/Lindholm/Pitlick….

Anyway, point being, there are some options to shuffle guys around and see who has chemistry with who…it seems the smart play is to build the lines in duos we know work then slot in the RW’s wherever they fit, meaning I’d build the lines:

 

Gaudreau/Monahan/ ?

Tachuck/Lindholm/?

manji/Dube/?

Those pairs, all seem to play well and have some chemistry as pairs…so the challenge then is slot in whoever hell’s best with those pairs between Pitlick, Coleman And Backlund.

 

I do get a sense that this could be the long term plan, but it won’t happen till Monahan is 100%, I get a feel Sutter is gonna slowly work him back into the top lines once Sutter is sure Monahan is good to go…to which I think is smart…I mean he’s still using Monahan on the top PP for a reason so why else drop his 5v5 play so much? Well this is the most sensible reason.

[jjgallow]

18 hours ago, Heartbreaker said:

I've been seeing this a lot around here lately, so I did some Javascript for you using the List of Calgary Flames draft picks Wikipedia page.

This code will get you the entire list, and you can sort it in the console (if you don't know how to do that, if you hold CMD-option-J, it'll open up for you in Chrome, and, an important point - if you want to run any of these, you'll need to run this one first):

const rows = Array.from(document.querySelectorAll('table.wikitable.sortable.jquery-tablesorter tr'))

let players = []

rows.forEach(row => {
    const cells = Array.from(row.childNodes)
    const player = {
        draftYear: cells[1].innerText,
        round: cells[3].innerText,
        name: cells[7].innerText,
        position: cells[11].innerText, 
    }
    players.push(player)
})

console.table(players)

For the sake of this exercise, I have limited the data to only include the draft from 2011 until the most recent draft using this snippet:

let range = []

players.map(player => (player.draftYear >= 2011 ? range.push(player) : null))

console.table(range)

Of course, that snippet can be modified to show any range that you would like. If you want to filter by position, you can run this code:

const lw = range.filter(player => player.position.includes('LW'))

console.log(lw)

And if you want to narrow it down even more, you can use this one to filter by position, and by round:

const lw1 = range.filter(player => player.position.includes('LW') && player.round === '1')

console.log(lw1)

If you run the code, you'll see that since 2011, the Flames have selected 71 players. Of the 71, 12 have been LW (which is pretty much exactly what you'd expect based on six positions). Of the 12, four of them were selected in the first round. One way that the data could be manipulated to suit your narrative is that since 2011, the Flames have selected four LW with 11 first-round picks - better than 1/3 (although, they've chosen four C as well).
 

Also, interestingly, the Flames historically don't value LW as much as you might expect. At least, not at the draft table. Out of the exactly 400 Calgary Flames draft picks, only 59 have played LW. The math suggests that you'd anticipate it'd be a much more Satanic 66.6 left wingers.

Not surprisingly, in Alberta, there's always been a tendency to lean to the right... including at the NHL Entry Draft. The Flames have drafted 72 right wingers. Here's the code:
 

const allTimeLW = players.filter(player => player.position.includes('LW'))
const allTimeRW = players.filter(player => player.position.includes('RW'))

console.log("LW: ", allTimeLW)
console.log("RW: ", allTimeRW)

Love.
 

 

..

lol

 

You looking for work?            (because I'm totally reasonable to work with)

 

Can't deny it's impressive lol.   But you still need to spend excessive amounts of time figuring out what to do with the data.

 

How many RHS NHL players did we draft in the first round?    If we've done our evaluations right it should be ~50%.

How many defencemen did we draft in the first round?    If we've done our evaluations right it should be  1/3  (2/6)

How many goalies did we draft in the first round?    If we've done our evaluations right it should be 1/6.

(Coronato btw is a LW, we will see if he ends up switching to RW)

 

I only mention the first round because  drafting  LW in the first round and then drafting all RW in rounds 5+ does not mean you are RW heavy.

 

Most of the time, I describe our issue as LHS forwards.   Because LHS centers face the same issues and more often than not end up playing LW.

 

 

But, more to the point, my work from home message is....  I have a bigger issue with the end result than I do the drafting.

 

We can acquire all the Adam Foxes and Hamiltons that we want and we can have a great looking drafting record but if we trade or give them all away it's not going to change the fact that the team is most likely comprised of LW.

 

I am...really impressed with how readily you came up with some javascript on a whim.   Next, I need you to come up with some kind of code that gives us first line D, first line Centers, and a first line RW

[cross16]

14 hours ago, MP5029 said:

Unfortunately, I don’t get to see much Flames here in NS…but your comment has me asking…what have you seen of Monahan in the first few games? Dose he seem ok? 
 

that would great news, but also, I can see Sutter sheltering him as long as he can to make sure Monahan is able to withstand more mins…

I think his position and play away from the puck has been good and skating wise he looks fine to me. He does look like a player who hasn’t played in a while But that’s getting better every game. Thought he had good jump against Detroit. 
 

i just think the comments around being slow and behind the play are not due to Monahan they are part of the system the Flames play. 

[travel_dude]

16 hours ago, MP5029 said:

Unfortunately, I don’t get to see much Flames here in NS…but your comment has me asking…what have you seen of Monahan in the first few games? Dose he seem ok? 
 

that would great news, but also, I can see Sutter sheltering him as long as he can to make sure Monahan is able to withstand more mins…

 

I feel your pain; transplanted Bluenoser since 2009.

A Flames fan from the days of the cup win and was only able to watch HNIC games or the occasional special broadcast.

I know of a streaming site that I have to use when I go back there.

Annoying site with popups and best to use Chromebook to avoid any malicious stiff.

But once you get the stream, it's HD quality.

Had a better site last year, but it's been shut down.

Can't mention it here, but you can PM me.

User beware though.

 

[The_People1]

6 hours ago, cross16 said:

I think his position and play away from the puck has been good and skating wise he looks fine to me. He does look like a player who hasn’t played in a while But that’s getting better every game. Thought he had good jump against Detroit. 
 

i just think the comments around being slow and behind the play are not due to Monahan they are part of the system the Flames play. 

 

Not so much that he's slow even but he can't keep up with Mangiapane and Dube.  Slow between the ears.

 

No Ritchie isn't much better.

[conundrumed]

It is, without question, game day fellow biotches.

Hopefully we pound the Fox out of the Rangers.

 

[travel_dude]

10 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

It is, without question, game day fellow biotches.

Hopefully we pound the Fox out of the Rangers.

 

 

Perhaps we just pound the Shesterkin out of the goalie.

And Mangiapane can eat Panarin alive.

 

Hard to believe ol' Reaves is playing in NY.

Lucic and him can have a little meet and greet.