It's Game Day Biotches

[travel_dude]

6 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Wings fans are awesome.lol

 

If I recall correctly, DET was a game where Tkachuk was suspended for.  Where he "speared" the guy skating off the ice.

Think he was on the bench at the time.

That game ended up being a Donneybrook 

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, rickross said:

Yup. Yeah it’s only 2 games blah blah blah but f*ck all this complacency, it’s been a cancer to this franchise. We’re still winless on the season. This team has much to prove so not sure why such a long leash for this group of underachievers? We should expect more from the team , we deserve better as fans. It’s not the end of the world by any means but we’ve seen these starts year after year and I’m pretty sure it’s hasn’t been working out for us. 

 

There’s no magical switch for this team but for some reason ppl seem to think they can just “turn it on” after 20, 40 games. It’s not a recipe for success, nor has this team shown any ability to elevate their game consistently. I’m not expecting they will win every single game but this mentality that it’s ok to be losing because it’s early is part of the problem. 
 

Not even coming at you , I guess I just have higher expectations for my team. Nothing wrong with that. 

 

well, we do tend to go on a 9 game win streak just before Christmas and we all love it! So I expect that to happen. We will probably start off with 3 wins in 10 games and then go .500 and then put a big streak together and teeter on .500 again to end the year. 

[travel_dude]

5 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

well, we do tend to go on a 9 game win streak just before Christmas and we all love it! So I expect that to happen. We will probably start off with 3 wins in 10 games and then go .500 and then put a big streak together and teeter on .500 again to end the year. 

 

I look at every season differently, not some pre-destined set of results that will happen.  🙂 

 

You have to admit that this team looks a lot different already.

Two game in a row where we battled to the end.

Two games where we generated a ton of shot volume, and last game was quality over just quantity.

In both games, we dominated for most of the 5v5 play.

If you recall last year, we struggled at 5v5 play a lot of games.

 

It's going to take time to learn how to win 2-1 games.

It's not just the goalie.

It's attention to detail; like a momentary letdown in the O-zone comes back on you.

In past, we saw a lot of those details missing; a lazy play, going for the easy hit, looking only at a small piece of ice with no player there, etc.

 

Yeah, I know we have heard all of this before.

I think it was lip service a lot in the past.

Gio was great for saying the right thing, but the next game seemed to be same thing.

Let's see how the team responds.

They should be angry and looking to correct past mistakes.

 

[rickross]

1 hour ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

It's not complacency, its the realization of the scale this early in the year, a win tonight can vault a team 5-6 spots. In the trade discussions were always saying you cant base decisions from a players small sample size of stats.  Same goes here. 

 

Just because a fan isnt running around with a sense of panic doesnt mean theyre happy with the current outcomes. 

It’s been YEARS since the Flames have been able to start the season with a winning record. We haven’t won a season opener in over 12 years! That’s an NHL record in futility btw. Is 12 years too small a sample size ?? At what point in the season should the Flames start winning? After 10, 20, 60 games in? What is the threshold of games they must reach before winning matters? IMO it IS complacency when u are accepting losses just because it’s early in the season. Every game should matter, we have a 2 year window with Sutter to become true Cup contenders…not seeing how embracing or making exceptions to losses helps, no matter what time of the year. Are you not tired of all the talk and no action every single year from this squad? They are UNDERachieving. It should never be acceptable. 

I’m not panicking but I’m aware that doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is just crazy. I don’t think expecting your team to put themselves in a position to win as early as possible is a bad thing. 
 

 

[sak22]

2 hours ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

It's not complacency, its the realization of the scale this early in the year, a win tonight can vault a team 5-6 spots. In the trade discussions were always saying you cant base decisions from a players small sample size of stats.  Same goes here. 

 

Just because a fan isnt running around with a sense of panic doesnt mean theyre happy with the current outcomes. 

Often forgotten about last year was they started 2-0-1.  

[travel_dude]

10 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Often forgotten about last year was they started 2-0-1.  

 

I would be happy with 1-1-1 this season start. LOL.

 

[robrob74]

44 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I look at every season differently, not some pre-destined set of results that will happen.  🙂 

 

You have to admit that this team looks a lot different already.

Two game in a row where we battled to the end.

Two games where we generated a ton of shot volume, and last game was quality over just quantity.

In both games, we dominated for most of the 5v5 play.

If you recall last year, we struggled at 5v5 play a lot of games.

 

It's going to take time to learn how to win 2-1 games.

It's not just the goalie.

It's attention to detail; like a momentary letdown in the O-zone comes back on you.

In past, we saw a lot of those details missing; a lazy play, going for the easy hit, looking only at a small piece of ice with no player there, etc.

 

Yeah, I know we have heard all of this before.

I think it was lip service a lot in the past.

Gio was great for saying the right thing, but the next game seemed to be same thing.

Let's see how the team responds.

They should be angry and looking to correct past mistakes.

 

 

I definitely don't have a problem with their effort so far. It has been good to see. It's like you say, the attention to detail. Every team has breakdowns. But for some reason those breakdowns tend to hurt the Flames (historically and this year) just enough to bite the team in the Hash Rate where it matters the most, the scoresheet. The other part that is still frustrating is the perimeter play. It looked a tad better last game but still wasn't enough. There is SOME reason for optimism. 

 

I feel bad for Monahan, how he has given so much to the team and hopefully it isn't detrimental to his career. It's probably just a get back to game strength and he will be back. Although I don't know what those hip surgeries are like when it comes to the long term affects on skating. I just hope he starts to learn his lesson and shuts it down anytime he gets other injuries. Problem is, he's starting to become very injury prone. 

 

The play has been good, and now I want to see what it's like for them if they get a lead and how they respond to a team pushes for a goal. Markstrom also needs to make 1 or 2 more saves, not that he's been bad, but to keep a lead, we might need him to shut the door, as he's paid to do. 

[MP5029]

No a huge fan of how Sutter is using Monahan…down on the 3rd line now? Wtf?

[travel_dude]

23 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I definitely don't have a problem with their effort so far. It has been good to see. It's like you say, the attention to detail. Every team has breakdowns. But for some reason those breakdowns tend to hurt the Flames (historically and this year) just enough to bite the team in the Hash Rate where it matters the most, the scoresheet. The other part that is still frustrating is the perimeter play. It looked a tad better last game but still wasn't enough. There is SOME reason for optimism. 

 

I feel bad for Monahan, how he has given so much to the team and hopefully it isn't detrimental to his career. It's probably just a get back to game strength and he will be back. Although I don't know what those hip surgeries are like when it comes to the long term affects on skating. I just hope he starts to learn his lesson and shuts it down anytime he gets other injuries. Problem is, he's starting to become very injury prone. 

 

The play has been good, and now I want to see what it's like for them if they get a lead and how they respond to a team pushes for a goal. Markstrom also needs to make 1 or 2 more saves, not that he's been bad, but to keep a lead, we might need him to shut the door, as he's paid to do. 

 

The breakdowns are a concern.

But, those happen to every team.

Right now, we are in a place where one mistake can lose the game.

That's not a sustainable model.

What I would like to see is where we put the boots to a team, where we can afford a goal against.

That will come, as I see the effort leading to that.

Regardless of being perimeter or not, not many teams win games where they face 40 shots.

We saw two games where this has been the case and only a win due to their goalie.

 

Markstrom gave up 2 iffy ones against EDM and 2 against ANA.

With EDM, the non-iffy goals were ones he had no chance on (batted in and McD getting a redirected shot/pass).

He is a better goalie than we have seen.

Not quite in form yet.

But that's very correctable.

It's not like games where we stole it on the goalie's back.

Those are much more concerning, but I will take them.

 

Maybe I'm too glass half full, but I see this team as being set for good things.

A bunch of giveaways from vet D and not great performances early in the season from your goalie?

Not exactly sky is falling.

Nobody looks lost, even if I have concerns about Zadorov.

I would be more worried about being an EDM fan.

They have huge concerns about defense and now Smitty is injured. 

[jjgallow]

6 hours ago, The_People1 said:

Really excited to watch Seider.  Kid was picked like 15 spots ahead of what he was projected and it looks like the Red Wings are getting the last laugh.  

 

Why would anyone want a RHS D though?

 

Not drafting LW is a waste of a pick

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, MP5029 said:

No a huge fan of how Sutter is using Monahan…down on the 3rd line now? Wtf?

 

3rd/4th line 5-on-5 and then his bread and butter spot on the PP is where Monahan belongs.  Glad Sutter has the guts and respect to pull it off.

[Heartbreaker]

7 hours ago, jjgallow said:

Not drafting LW is a waste of a pick

I've been seeing this a lot around here lately, so I did some Javascript for you using the List of Calgary Flames draft picks Wikipedia page.

This code will get you the entire list, and you can sort it in the console (if you don't know how to do that, if you hold CMD-option-J, it'll open up for you in Chrome, and, an important point - if you want to run any of these, you'll need to run this one first):

const rows = Array.from(document.querySelectorAll('table.wikitable.sortable.jquery-tablesorter tr'))

let players = []

rows.forEach(row => {
    const cells = Array.from(row.childNodes)
    const player = {
        draftYear: cells[1].innerText,
        round: cells[3].innerText,
        name: cells[7].innerText,
        position: cells[11].innerText, 
    }
    players.push(player)
})

console.table(players)

For the sake of this exercise, I have limited the data to only include the draft from 2011 until the most recent draft using this snippet:

let range = []

players.map(player => (player.draftYear >= 2011 ? range.push(player) : null))

console.table(range)

Of course, that snippet can be modified to show any range that you would like. If you want to filter by position, you can run this code:

const lw = range.filter(player => player.position.includes('LW'))

console.log(lw)

Quote

(index)	draftYear	round	name	position

0	'2011'	'1'	'Sven Bartschi'	'LW'
1	'2011'	'4'	'Johnny Gaudreau'	'LW'
2	'2012'	'6'	'Coda Gordon'	'LW'
3	'2013'	'1'	'Morgan Klimchuk'	'LW'
4	'2015'	'6'	'Andrew Mangiapane'	'LW'
5	'2016'	'1'	'Matthew Tkachuk'	'LW'
6	'2017'	'7'	'Filip Sveningsson'	'LW'
7	'2018'	'4'	'Demetrios Koumontzis'	'LW'
8	'2018'	'7'	'Dmitry Zavgorodniy'	'LW'
9	'2019'	'1'	'Jakob Pelletier'	'LW'
10	'2021'	'2'	'William Strömgren'	'LW'
11	'2021'	'6'	'Lucas Ciona'	'LW'

And if you want to narrow it down even more, you can use this one to filter by position, and by round:

const lw1 = range.filter(player => player.position.includes('LW') && player.round === '1')

console.log(lw1)

If you run the code, you'll see that since 2011, the Flames have selected 71 players. Of the 71, 12 have been LW (which is pretty much exactly what you'd expect based on six positions). Of the 12, four of them were selected in the first round. One way that the data could be manipulated to suit your narrative is that since 2011, the Flames have selected four LW with 11 first-round picks - better than 1/3 (although, they've chosen four C as well).
 

Quote

(index)	draftYear	round	name	position

0	'2011'	'1'	'Sven Bartschi'	'LW'
1	'2013'	'1'	'Morgan Klimchuk'	'LW'
2	'2016'	'1'	'Matthew Tkachuk'	'LW'
3	'2019'	'1'	'Jakob Pelletier'	'LW'

Also, interestingly, the Flames historically don't value LW as much as you might expect. At least, not at the draft table. Out of the exactly 400 Calgary Flames draft picks, only 59 have played LW. The math suggests that you'd anticipate it'd be a much more Satanic 66.6 left wingers.

Not surprisingly, in Alberta, there's always been a tendency to lean to the right... including at the NHL Entry Draft. The Flames have drafted 72 right wingers. Here's the code:
 

const allTimeLW = players.filter(player => player.position.includes('LW'))
const allTimeRW = players.filter(player => player.position.includes('RW'))

console.log("LW: ", allTimeLW)
console.log("RW: ", allTimeRW)

Love.
 

[conundrumed]

Hearts, you are frigging hilarious.🤣🤣🤣

You're correct, that comment has gotten exhausting. Not mentioning any names JJ.

[MP5029]

14 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

3rd/4th line 5-on-5 and then his bread and butter spot on the PP is where Monahan belongs.  Glad Sutter has the guts and respect to pull it off.

Well I will agree with the PP part but absolutely not in agree with 3/4th line 5v5 he needs to be on the 2nd/1st line…

 

personally, I think the top 2 lines would be far more effective if they put Gaudreau  and Monahan together again and then Tkacuck and Lindholm on the other line…see where Coleman fits best with those two lines….

 

Backlund on a line with Manji for the 3rd and Dube…Manji and Dube seem to be developing some chemistry…but having said that, Dube at Ctr on the same line as Backlund is not a great idea…but we are gonna have to double up Ctrs on a line anyway as Backlund, Dube Lindholm and Monahan are all 50% ish on the FO so kinda don’t have many options…unless we trade one of them for a RW? 

[The_People1]

7 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

Well I will agree with the PP part but absolutely not in agree with 3/4th line 5v5 he needs to be on the 2nd/1st line…

 

personally, I think the top 2 lines would be far more effective if they put Gaudreau  and Monahan together again and then Tkacuck and Lindholm on the other line…see where Coleman fits best with those two lines….

 

Backlund on a line with Manji for the 3rd and Dube…Manji and Dube seem to be developing some chemistry…but having said that, Dube at Ctr on the same line as Backlund is not a great idea…but we are gonna have to double up Ctrs on a line anyway as Backlund, Dube Lindholm and Monahan are all 50% ish on the FO so kinda don’t have many options…unless we trade one of them for a RW? 

 

No man.  Monahan is too slow and rarely driving the play.  He's only the trailer man every single time.  Forget it.  He's best parked in his office on the PP.  Let faster players play top 6 while 5-on-5.

[robrob74]

37 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

No man.  Monahan is too slow and rarely driving the play.  He's only the trailer man every single time.  Forget it.  He's best parked in his office on the PP.  Let faster players play top 6 while 5-on-5.

I feel bad, but this is the player I felt Monahan always was. I always said, “without Gaudreau, what is he?”

 

so, I get what MP5 is getting at. Monahan needs a Gaudreau type to drive play. I wonder, is not better to transition Monahan to the wing? I get we have a ton of LW but maybe we get a guy who Brett Hulls it that might have just a bit more defensive to his game as being a former C. 
 

although, I never thought Monahan would fall this far down… but then, I hope the injury hasn’t been re-aggravated maybe he needs just a bit longer to get back into game shape. Too bad he didn’t start on the LTIR and we just gave him more time. I hope he has learned his lesson, to park it when he is injured from now on.

[sak22]

44 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

No man.  Monahan is too slow and rarely driving the play.  He's only the trailer man every single time.  Forget it.  He's best parked in his office on the PP.  Let faster players play top 6 while 5-on-5.

Like Brett Ritchie?  

[conundrumed]

54 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

No man.  Monahan is too slow and rarely driving the play.  He's only the trailer man every single time.  Forget it.  He's best parked in his office on the PP.  Let faster players play top 6 while 5-on-5.

A lot of centers are the trailer man. They're back the deepest supporting the D.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

No man.  Monahan is too slow and rarely driving the play.  He's only the trailer man every single time.  Forget it.  He's best parked in his office on the PP.  Let faster players play top 6 while 5-on-5.

 

5 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

A lot of centers are the trailer man. They're back the deepest supporting the D.

 

I think it really depends on how he gets back to defend. Speedy would be nice, but to be able to keep up and cover when other teams transition to offence. If his breakouts are good then it is fine. It would be nice if he could keep up with the play to make options on entries. 
 

i missed the 1st periods of the first two games and was in my Masters class last night so didn’t watch. 
 

sounds like a good performance by Markstrom. Nice to see he responded to his first two games as being ok-good but not enough with a shutout.

 

but I don’t know how Monahan or the rest played and just scanned to see what happened here.

 

good to get the first win and get back to .500!!!

[travel_dude]

My two cents.

Monahan was put in a spot where he has to be the responsible C for a pair of bulky guys.

Passes to him are rarely crisp.

He has to create out of nothing.

 

Is this how we want to be?

Monahan has played all of 1 pre-season game and 3 regular season games since last March.

I don't think he should be with Gaudreau unless he's playing with Lindholm as well.

But we are then down a top C.

 

Alternative is to find the right mix for him.

Let's face it, Coleman and Pitlick are good 2-way players, but leaving Monahan with Dube and Mangiapane make them susceptible to being knocked down a lot.

Dube and Mangiapane can play together with Backlund or leave one with Monahan.

Our top 9 without Ritchie and Lucic is nothing to sneer about. 

[robrob74]

8 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

My two cents.

Monahan was put in a spot where he has to be the responsible C for a pair of bulky guys.

Passes to him are rarely crisp.

He has to create out of nothing.

 

Is this how we want to be?

Monahan has played all of 1 pre-season game and 3 regular season games since last March.

I don't think he should be with Gaudreau unless he's playing with Lindholm as well.

But we are then down a top C.

 

Alternative is to find the right mix for him.

Let's face it, Coleman and Pitlick are good 2-way players, but leaving Monahan with Dube and Mangiapane make them susceptible to being knocked down a lot.

Dube and Mangiapane can play together with Backlund or leave one with Monahan.

Our top 9 without Ritchie and Lucic is nothing to sneer about. 

I don’t mind going back to what worked…

 

Gaudreau, Monahan, Lindholm

Tkachuk, Backlund, Mangiapane 

Coleman, Dube, Pitlick

Lucic, Richardson, Lewis 

 

something along those lines? I dunno. But you’re right, maybe Monahan on the 4th is just to catch him up to game shape and speed. After all, he played one preseason game and is coming off a surgery, probably needs to build muscle memory on a new hip.

[travel_dude]

9 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

I don’t mind going back to what worked…

 

Gaudreau, Monahan, Lindholm

Tkachuk, Backlund, Mangiapane 

Coleman, Dube, Pitlick

Lucic, Richardson, Lewis 

 

something along those lines? I dunno. But you’re right, maybe Monahan on the 4th is just to catch him up to game shape and speed. After all, he played one preseason game and is coming off a surgery, probably needs to build muscle memory on a new hip.

 

That has some value too, but I wonder if they feel Backlund was holding back Tkachuk and Mange.

Lindholm is scoring goals like a top line C.

He's getting those goals by going to the net like Monahan used to.

He's probably the most underrated #1C in the league.

On a lot of teams he would be #2, but so what.

He's scoring like a #1.

[robrob74]

2 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

That has some value too, but I wonder if they feel Backlund was holding back Tkachuk and Mange.

Lindholm is scoring goals like a top line C.

He's getting those goals by going to the net like Monahan used to.

He's probably the most underrated #1C in the league.

On a lot of teams he would be #2, but so what.

He's scoring like a #1.

I mean that’s what I thought of Morrison back in his Canucks days. Putting him with Bertuzzi and Naslund made him a #1 but probably more a #2 without them… 

 

I see that with Lindholm. I get you shouldn’t break that up and I think Gaudreau is more effective with more around him. We just need to find Monahan a new role and mates that will enhance what he can do.

[conundrumed]

17 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

I don’t mind going back to what worked…

 

Gaudreau, Monahan, Lindholm

Tkachuk, Backlund, Mangiapane 

Coleman, Dube, Pitlick

Lucic, Richardson, Lewis 

 

something along those lines? I dunno. But you’re right, maybe Monahan on the 4th is just to catch him up to game shape and speed. After all, he played one preseason game and is coming off a surgery, probably needs to build muscle memory on a new hip.

I think if you look at lines as pairings, the last thing I want to see is splitting Dube-Mangiapane. That is a great future pairing for us and they're proving it already. They'll only get better together.

[conundrumed]

1 minute ago, robrob74 said:

I mean that’s what I thought of Morrison back in his Canucks days. Putting him with Bertuzzi and Naslund made him a #1 but probably more a #2 without them… 

 

I see that with Lindholm. I get you shouldn’t break that up and I think Gaudreau is more effective with more around him. We just need to find Monahan a new role and mates that will enhance what he can do.

Be patient. Lewis and Lucic could be it. 3 experienced guys that can control and dictate the pace they want. I think that's what Sutter is aiming for imo. It's only been 1 game.