training camp

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, kehatch said:

Tavev and Zadorov shouldn't be on a pairing. Not enough foot speed. They got stuck with a guy behind them multiple times last night, and they didn't look good the two games they played together. 

 

I can only make suggestions based on what we have available and take into account some intangibles.

 

Hanifin-Ras

I trust this pair as a alternative to the best pairing from last year.  It's not perfect, but allows us a 2nd pair with Tanev that could be trusted.

Kylington-Tanev

Kylington has looked solid playing with Tanev.  I get that he has not been a steady NHL player, but play together players that work.

Zadorov-Valimaki

This is the one I am most concerned about.  Valimaki has foot speed and can jump up into the play.  Zadorov can focus on defense.

 

Unless you are trading Zadorov or Gudbranson, I don't see any other pairings that work any better.  Hanifin-Tanev only really gives you one solid pair.  That means we end up with two questionable pairs.  

[cross16]

I think it may take some time to settle on D pairings. As good as Kylington has been it is after all just the pre season and it would not be the first time someone had a great pre season only to revert back during the regular season. I'm not offering that as an opinion on Kylington I just think you have to be careful penciling someone in based on pre season. The way I see this:

 

Hanifin - Ras and Tanev are your top 3. The 4th spot is open

Hanifin and Tanev should not be a pair at least to begin. Don't think they can afford to load them up and I thikn they need to us Tanev as a stabalizer

Zadorov should not play in the top 4

 

Means they are going to have to experiment with the rest of it. If it were me I'd start playing Kylington and/or Valimaki on the RS. 

[Horsman1]

6 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I think it may take some time to settle on D pairings. As good as Kylington has been it is after all just the pre season and it would not be the first time someone had a great pre season only to revert back during the regular season. I'm not offering that as an opinion on Kylington I just think you have to be careful penciling someone in based on pre season. The way I see this:

 

Hanifin - Ras and Tanev are your top 3. The 4th spot is open

Zadorov should not play in the top 4 IMO. 

Hanifin and Tanev should not be a pair at least to begin. Don't think they can afford to load them up

 

Means they are going to have to experiment with the rest of it. If it were me I'd start playing Kylington and Valimaki on the RS. 

Stone has proven to be reliable and makes the third pairing..with one of thekids.. kylington/valamaki or mackey

must really suck knowing your placement ends up depending on your contract status

 

[travel_dude]

44 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I think it may take some time to settle on D pairings. As good as Kylington has been it is after all just the pre season and it would not be the first time someone had a great pre season only to revert back during the regular season. I'm not offering that as an opinion on Kylington I just think you have to be careful penciling someone in based on pre season. The way I see this:

 

Hanifin - Ras and Tanev are your top 3. The 4th spot is open

Hanifin and Tanev should not be a pair at least to begin. Don't think they can afford to load them up and I thikn they need to us Tanev as a stabalizer

Zadorov should not play in the top 4

 

Means they are going to have to experiment with the rest of it. If it were me I'd start playing Kylington and/or Valimaki on the RS. 

 

That is something we can agree on....

No to Hanifin-Tanev.  It leaves us wanting elsewhere.

It's probably safe then to project Hanifin-Ras.

Yes, it's pre-season, but I don't see Tanev working with Gudbranson or Stone or Zadorov.

Whether it's Kylington or Valimaki or Mackey that plays with Tanev through the season, it has to be one of them.

I probably have a little more time for Zadorov, but I still think he would be better off with a younger, more mobile player.

 

And I agree that they need to figure out who plays best on RD; Kylington or Valimaki or Zadorov.

 

I'm not set on my pairs, just making some choices on what I have seen to date.

[travel_dude]

40 minutes ago, Horsman1 said:

Stone has proven to be reliable and makes the third pairing..with one of thekids.. kylington/valamaki or mackey

must really suck knowing your placement ends up depending on your contract status

 

 

Stone did what he needed to do.

Practice every day and come in when needed.

He looked solid during these games, but it's not a full season.

The last time he had that he struggled.

Is he an everyday player?

Wasn't the last time I looked.

 

[ABC923]

The longer training camp goes, the more baffling the Gudbranson signing becomes. Could we really not have brought him in on a pto just evaluate fit? I doubt there were many teams prepared to offer him a contract when we signed him, let alone a nearly 2 million dollar contract.

[kehatch]

Hanafin-Tanev was good in the preseason as well as last season. No reason not to stick with that. That leaves Zadorov, Kylington, or Valamaki to play with Andersson. 

 

I agree it's a bit tough to find a spot for Zadarov. I think he is a good player, but he is what he is. He is big, mean, and focused on a shut down game. He isn't super slow, but he isn't fast either and he has very little offensive game. 

 

Ideally you would play him with a guy like Hanafin, but our right side is Tanev, Andersson, Gudbranson, and Stone. None of them compliment Zadarov all that well. Andersson is the closest, but he still isn't a great match. 

 

The Flames might be better off to put either Valamaki or Kylington with Andersson. Then whichever of those two left with Zadarov. I believe Zadarov can play the right side. 

 

I don't mind Hanafin-Tanev / Kylington-Andersson / Valamaki-Zadorov / Stone. It's not a rock star D, but the Flames were always going to need a young guy or two to elevate to put together a competent D. 

 

Of course if they insist on playing Gudbranson then they are really stuck. Then you pretty much have to play Zadorov with Andersson because he can't play with Tanev or Gud. 

[Horsman1]

30 minutes ago, ABC923 said:

The longer training camp goes, the more baffling the Gudbranson signing becomes. Could we really not have brought him in on a pto just evaluate fit? I doubt there were many teams prepared to offer him a contract when we signed him, let alone a nearly 2 million dollar contract.

Tre had money burning a hole in his pocket.. wasn't enough for the top line center he needed.. he always spends to the max of the cap

 

[kehatch]

I think people are being to hard on the Gudbranson pick up. Treliving is generally pretty frugal with his depth signings so obviously there was a market for the player. If a PTO or minimum wage contract was in the cards then that would have been the signing. 

 

The Flames were in a tough spot. We lost Gio and didn't have a lot of great options to fill the gap. Sometimes the only strategy is to throw mud at the wall, and when your doing that you want to load up on a lot of mud. 

 

You have some young guys that might turn out, but picking up Zadarov and Gudbranson just gives you a few options. And the coach was advocating for the player. 

 

Right now it's "no harm no foul". If he is your 7 D that's fine. If he is put in the AHL no biggie. It's some wasted cap, but having extra depth isn't a bad thing. 

 

Now if they choose to play him and lose a young D on waivers or something in favor of playing Gud then I won't be happy. But that hasn't happened. 

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, kehatch said:

I think people are being to hard on the Gudbranson pick up. Treliving is generally pretty frugal with his depth signings so obviously there was a market for the player. If a PTO or minimum wage contract was in the cards then that would have been the signing. 

 

The Flames were in a tough spot. We lost Gio and didn't have a lot of great options to fill the gap. Sometimes the only strategy is to throw mud at the wall, and when your doing that you want to load up on a lot of mud. 

 

You have some young guys that might turn out, but picking up Zadarov and Gudbranson just gives you a few options. And the coach was advocating for the player. 

 

Right now it's "no harm no foul". If he is your 7 D that's fine. If he is put in the AHL no biggie. It's some wasted cap, but having extra depth isn't a bad thing. 

 

Now if they choose to play him and lose a young D on waivers or something in favor of playing Gud then I won't be happy. But that hasn't happened. 

 

I think that most people are of that mind.

I would have preferred a different player for that much, but we were going to spend it on something.

What I want to see is the GM and coach seeing eye to eye.

If Guddy should be waibed, it happens.

There is nothing that Kylington has done to warrant being waived.

So, he should not be.

 

The cap savings for sending Gudbranson down over Kylington isn't insignificant.

If he's here it should be because he is the 6th or 7th best.

[cross16]

12 hours ago, kehatch said:

I think people are being to hard on the Gudbranson pick up. Treliving is generally pretty frugal with his depth signings so obviously there was a market for the player. If a PTO or minimum wage contract was in the cards then that would have been the signing. 

 

The Flames were in a tough spot. We lost Gio and didn't have a lot of great options to fill the gap. Sometimes the only strategy is to throw mud at the wall, and when your doing that you want to load up on a lot of mud. 

 

You have some young guys that might turn out, but picking up Zadarov and Gudbranson just gives you a few options. And the coach was advocating for the player. 

 

Right now it's "no harm no foul". If he is your 7 D that's fine. If he is put in the AHL no biggie. It's some wasted cap, but having extra depth isn't a bad thing. 

 

Now if they choose to play him and lose a young D on waivers or something in favor of playing Gud then I won't be happy. But that hasn't happened. 

 

To add to this, it sure sounds like he had his coach in his ear about the player. Sometimes a GM makes a move to please his coach and I think that's what happened here. 

[JTech780]

I find it interesting that Dube is at center again tonight. Also that we haven't seen a lot of Monahan yet. I wonder if they are still working on trades.

[conundrumed]

21 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

I find it interesting that Dube is at center again tonight. Also that we haven't seen a lot of Monahan yet. I wonder if they are still working on trades.

Sutter has mentioned Mony and Hanifin's conditioning coming off of injury before. That's the likely scenario. Sutter wants to see Dube too. I think he likes him.lol

[travel_dude]

52 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

I find it interesting that Dube is at center again tonight. Also that we haven't seen a lot of Monahan yet. I wonder if they are still working on trades.

 

28 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Sutter has mentioned Mony and Hanifin's conditioning coming off of injury before. That's the likely scenario. Sutter wants to see Dube too. I think he likes him.lol

 

Two schools of thought.

1) Monahan and/or Dube part of a trade with Buffalo

This has some legs to it, as Buffalo would need to get a C back.  Can have them injured if you are getting ready to make a trade.

 

2) Pre-season is meaningless.

Keep Monahan out of crap games by exposing him slowly to game scenarios.  With Dube, we don't have a 100% define 4th line C.  Richardson actually had over 50% in his last game in faceoffs.  The other options are Lewis and Gawdin.  I'm less interested in having Dube as a #4C as much as exploring his abilities there.  In the WJC, I believe he was 3C, and scored a huge goal there.  It was more of a defensive C spot though.  If one of the top C were not available, we would like to have one ready to take the spot.  Zary is months or a year away from that.  

[robrob74]

20 hours ago, ABC923 said:

The longer training camp goes, the more baffling the Gudbranson signing becomes. Could we really not have brought him in on a pto just evaluate fit? I doubt there were many teams prepared to offer him a contract when we signed him, let alone a nearly 2 million dollar contract.

yup! It’s how I felt at the time of the signing, baffling. 

[robrob74]

19 hours ago, kehatch said:

I think people are being to hard on the Gudbranson pick up. Treliving is generally pretty frugal with his depth signings so obviously there was a market for the player. If a PTO or minimum wage contract was in the cards then that would have been the signing. 

 

The Flames were in a tough spot. We lost Gio and didn't have a lot of great options to fill the gap. Sometimes the only strategy is to throw mud at the wall, and when your doing that you want to load up on a lot of mud. 

 

You have some young guys that might turn out, but picking up Zadarov and Gudbranson just gives you a few options. And the coach was advocating for the player. 

 

Right now it's "no harm no foul". If he is your 7 D that's fine. If he is put in the AHL no biggie. It's some wasted cap, but having extra depth isn't a bad thing. 

 

Now if they choose to play him and lose a young D on waivers or something in favor of playing Gud then I won't be happy. But that hasn't happened. 

 

I put this in with the Mason Raymond signing, a need for a player but them being the wrong player. And to me, both were always the wrong player. 

[Zirakzigil]

As much as we all love and should get a Kylington - Tanev pairing, it isnt happening. Kylington - Gudbranson actually has been decent. Best skater on the blue line covers for the worst one. Zadorov and Gudbranson should not be playing on the same night. Problem is that Valimaki hasnt played well either, Sutter loves his beef and thats too much salary to bench if you go with Kylington - Stone. 

[travel_dude]

10 hours ago, Zirakzigil said:

As much as we all love and should get a Kylington - Tanev pairing, it isnt happening. Kylington - Gudbranson actually has been decent. Best skater on the blue line covers for the worst one. Zadorov and Gudbranson should not be playing on the same night. Problem is that Valimaki hasnt played well either, Sutter loves his beef and thats too much salary to bench if you go with Kylington - Stone. 

 

I think Sutter recognizes the need to balance beef with skating.  Zadorov and Gudbranson absolutely should not play the same game.  It does make things challenging.

Hanifin-Ras works.

Kylington-Tanev works.

Hanifin-Tanev works.

Zadorov-Tanev does not work.

Gudbranson-Tanev has two RD together.

Valimaki-Kylington is a bit of a wildcard, but also puts two "rookies" together.

 

I do think that Kylington has done enough to warrant staying on the roster.  Gudbranson is probably fighting with Stone for the 7 spot.

How that shows in pairs will be a work in progress.

Is it better to have one defined pair that you know is fine and have 2 pairs that you have to keep working on?

Or have two that you have practiced with that have shown chemistry?

Valimaki has difficulty handling bigger players.

Gudbranson or Zadorov can at least contain those types on the boards or hit them.

[zima]

I'm just so sad right now lost the face of this team and our best D man saved 6 mill and now we are in the twilight zone. 

 

[bosn111]

Coleman suspended for 1 preseason and 1 regular season game. Who gets the extra look from the team? Duehr? Gawdin? Froese? Kirkland?

[redfire11]

1 hour ago, bosn111 said:

Coleman suspended for 1 preseason and 1 regular season game. Who gets the extra look from the team? Duehr? Gawdin? Froese? Kirkland?

So far really liking Duehr"s game

[MP5029]

I’d like to see Sutter try this on the D

 

Hanifin/Tanev

Valimaki/Anderson

Big Z/Kylington 

 

stone

makey 

 

cant help but feel this would be a very dominant D if given a month or two…but would Definitely like to see it even if only one exhibition game, can’t help but feel it could surprise 

[MP5029]

1 hour ago, redfire11 said:

So far really liking Duehr"s game

Once everyone is healthy, I’d love to see a 3rd line of:

 

Dube/Zary/Duehr

 

 

[MP5029]

On 10/5/2021 at 6:12 PM, travel_dude said:

 

I can only make suggestions based on what we have available and take into account some intangibles.

 

Hanifin-Ras

I trust this pair as a alternative to the best pairing from last year.  It's not perfect, but allows us a 2nd pair with Tanev that could be trusted.

Kylington-Tanev

Kylington has looked solid playing with Tanev.  I get that he has not been a steady NHL player, but play together players that work.

Zadorov-Valimaki

This is the one I am most concerned about.  Valimaki has foot speed and can jump up into the play.  Zadorov can focus on defense.

 

Unless you are trading Zadorov or Gudbranson, I don't see any other pairings that work any better.  Hanifin-Tanev only really gives you one solid pair.  That means we end up with two questionable pairs.  

Yeah, I’m still thinking::

 

Hanifin /Tanev

Valimaki /Anderson

Zadorov/Kylington 

 

Stone

MaKey

 

here is the reasons:

 

1. Hanifin and Tanev click.

2. Valimaki is a LD, puck

mover and Anderson is RD and all round type D, should be a good comment to each other…I can see a Gio/Brodie team here.

3. Zadorov is a LD defensive D, Kylington is a puck mover and skater and can play RD so the styles should mesh well and with Kylington being able

to play RD makes better sense to move him to RD Vice moving Valimaki to RD.

 

Stone is the perfect 7th D fill in…

MaKey, better than Stone and should replace stone as the 7th D over the course of the season

 

 

[travel_dude]

19 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

Hanifin /Tanev

Valimaki /Anderson

Zadorov/Kylington 

 

 

I would suggest that any of those LD could play with any of those RD.

Valimaki can play RD, so you have even more options.

 

Hani-Ras

Valimaki-Tanev

Zaddy-Kyl

 

Hani-Ras

Kyl-Tanev

Zaddy-Valimaki

 

I think Dutter would like to experiment with both of those setups.

You want your young guys to gro with a vet.

Kyl and Vali both have that chance depending on which sets.

Each of those pairs a skater with a guy capable of shutting down the offense.

Hani-Ras is the long term future top pair.

Let's face it, Tanev is older and more likely to be injured.