Brad Treliving - GM Tracking & Evaluation

[DirtyDeeds]

I dont think we have had this problem of having to bribe players to come play for us. At least no where near what Oilers claim to need to do.

 

When Iggy was here he would talk to players about the benefits of playing here and we managed to get many good players, Cammy, Tanguay for examples.

 

Now with our playoffs and young team advancing there is motivation to be a part of this group. Oilers may have had promising young prospects but failed to deliver year after year. Players want money but that is not all they want. Playoffs and career stats define what players they are long term. 

 

BT does not have these difficulties do any degree....

[Flame111]

BT gets top marks for his moves. I am impressed. 

 

This board has been echoing the same theme and need over and over all season - top 4 D with right handed shot and a RW positional shortfall.

 

BT systematically blew everyone away and solved what many thought was a unsolvable problem by getting a young top pairing D with a right handed shot.

 

He also got the versatile RW in Frolik. His moves of trading up in the draft to target the players who fell are also top rate moves. 
 

He has also gotten proper contracts for Backlund. He knows the Cap issues ahead and it is the one issue that worries me personally but he is showing poise and long term vision. The last big hurdle for him will be the Gio contract and it has to be reasonable but what he has illustrated so far can give us some peace of mind. 

 

I fear a long term contract with an aging Gio. Shorter term and higher dollars is fine with me. 

[420since1974]

I'm basically happy with Brad Trevling's transactions so far.

A little bit of a rough start with some over-payments, but top notch moves lately.

 

I'd be totally impressed if he can rid the Flames of some "difficult" contracts, one year before they expire.

 

Moving Engelland ($2.912M/yr.), Raymond ($3.15M/yr.), & Smid ($3.5M/yr.) by the end of 2015/2016 would be sweet.

The Flames could really use that $9.562M to help re-sign their upcoming 2016/2017 UFAs & RFAs.

 

UFAs:

 

Giordano (31), Hiller (33), Jones (30), Nakladal (27), Ramo (29), & Russell (28).

In my mind, Giordano & Russell are almost "must haves", though I wouldn't be willing to grossly overpay in salary or term.

 

Giordano at $7.5M/yr. for 4 years or $7M/yr. for 6 years would be what I'd shoot for.

 

I would not re-sign Jones at his present $4M/yr. salary, I'd be more tempted to trade him at the TDL, or just let him go to UFA, and see if he can be re-signed for less.

 

I'd attempt to sign Russell somewhere in Backlund's range ($3.75/yr. for a 3 year term).

 

RFAs:

 

Colborne (25), Gaudreau (21), Granlund (22), Grant (25), Monahan (20), Orito (24), & Wotherspoon (22).

A lot will depend on their performances in the 2015/2016 season, before I could get a good idea on what it will cost to re-sign them.

 

Finally, who will play goal for the Calgary Flames in 2016/2017?

All 3 have expiring contracts.

I have to admit that I'm terrible at predicting goalie's performances, so no guesses here.

[tmac70]

I for one had huge issues with what BT did last season with some of his signings. Raymond, Englleand Bollig were and are terrible signings. After being in the trenches for a year he gets high praise this season for the moves he has made with hitting the needs of this club.

 

He has some contracts to do this season and huge decisions to make as well.  Jones, Hudler, Gio, Mony, JH and Colburne are all due. The two most obvious that stay are Mony and JH. Colburne is going to have to have a great season to get any type of raise.

 

Gio is the only one I target to extend but that depends on the price and length of contract. I look to move Huds, WIdeman and Jones. We have to free cap space to pay Mony and JH.

[KACaribou]

In Tree We Trust

[MAC331]

I for one had huge issues with what BT did last season with some of his signings. Raymond, Englleand Bollig were and are terrible signings. After being in the trenches for a year he gets high praise this season for the moves he has made with hitting the needs of this club.

 

He has some contracts to do this season and huge decisions to make as well.  Jones, Hudler, Gio, Mony, JH and Colburne are all due. The two most obvious that stay are Mony and JH. Colburne is going to have to have a great season to get any type of raise.

 

Gio is the only one I target to extend but that depends on the price and length of contract. I look to move Huds, WIdeman and Jones. We have to free cap space to pay Mony and JH.

If BT saw this rebuild being a 3 year task those signings were not terrible and if he picks away at unloading them between now and the 2016/17 season we should be in good shape. If anything BT has illustrated he knows what he is doing.

[travel_dude]

I for one had huge issues with what BT did last season with some of his signings. Raymond, Englleand Bollig were and are terrible signings. After being in the trenches for a year he gets high praise this season for the moves he has made with hitting the needs of this club.

 

He has some contracts to do this season and huge decisions to make as well.  Jones, Hudler, Gio, Mony, JH and Colburne are all due. The two most obvious that stay are Mony and JH. Colburne is going to have to have a great season to get any type of raise.

 

Gio is the only one I target to extend but that depends on the price and length of contract. I look to move Huds, WIdeman and Jones. We have to free cap space to pay Mony and JH.

 

The Raymond and Engelland signings were bad term and dollars in hindsight.  At the time, BT was like a lot of analysts - where are goals going to come from?  Who was going to fill in on D? 

 

Wotherspoon was injured, so no idea if we had a prospect that could come into the team and perform.  So, he outbids for Engelland.

He signs an offensive d-man in Diaz.  Takes a flyer in Potter, who could also start in Addy.  End result, we are cap compliant.

 

Raymond is a bit of a headscratcher.  He was coming off a career season after being a walk-on signing in TO.  We had that luxury but chose not to sign him, even though he expressed interest.  Maybe the combo of wanting to play here, having a good year and Burke's assessment.

 

The Bollig trade was all BB.  A GM without any knowledge of the Flames would think we needed a functionally tough player.  Bollig mat be that player on a good 3th line, but didn't display it here.

 

I agree that these contracts will either hinder the GM or vindicate him completely depending on how he escapes or uses them.  None of them are really needed now.  Bollig is the least problem, since he doesn't take much space.  Raymond could be headed back to the East, since he could provide the Leafs with some scoring.

[DirtyDeeds]

The Raymond and Engelland signings were bad term and dollars in hindsight.  At the time, BT was like a lot of analysts - where are goals going to come from?  Who was going to fill in on D? 

 

Wotherspoon was injured, so no idea if we had a prospect that could come into the team and perform.  So, he outbids for Engelland.

He signs an offensive d-man in Diaz.  Takes a flyer in Potter, who could also start in Addy.  End result, we are cap compliant.

 

Raymond is a bit of a headscratcher.  He was coming off a career season after being a walk-on signing in TO.  We had that luxury but chose not to sign him, even though he expressed interest.  Maybe the combo of wanting to play here, having a good year and Burke's assessment.

 

The Bollig trade was all BB.  A GM without any knowledge of the Flames would think we needed a functionally tough player.  Bollig mat be that player on a good 3th line, but didn't display it here.

 

I agree that these contracts will either hinder the GM or vindicate him completely depending on how he escapes or uses them.  None of them are really needed now.  Bollig is the least problem, since he doesn't take much space.  Raymond could be headed back to the East, since he could provide the Leafs with some scoring.

We as armchair GM's can now say in hindsight he could have signed them for less or shorter time but he had obvious holes to fill at the time.

 

We do not know if Raymond would have signed another 1 year contract. We don't know if Engelland would have signed shorter term or lower $ to come play for the Flames..

 

We do know he did not sign them really long term and handcuff us with cap problems. Most of his early signings were 2 years with a couple of 3 year terms.

 

We can now see with the last few signings, he had time to bargain and find the right players for our remaining holes. 

[travel_dude]

We as armchair GM's can now say in hindsight he could have signed them for less or shorter time but he had obvious holes to fill at the time.

 

We do not know if Raymond would have signed another 1 year contract. We don't know if Engelland would have signed shorter term or lower $ to come play for the Flames..

 

We do know he did not sign them really long term and handcuff us with cap problems. Most of his early signings were 2 years with a couple of 3 year terms.

 

We can now see with the last few signings, he had time to bargain and find the right players for our remaining holes. 

 

It didn't really bother me at the time, since I thought Raymond was a better player than he showed.  The NTC bothers me a bit.

Engelland would not be a worry if we didn't increase our cap by having 3 goalies this season valued at $9m, having a new top 2 D, and signing an excellent player like Frolik.

 

The only way I see BT blowing it is if one of these first contracts is the cause of losing a great player for cap reasons.  I seriously doubt that happens.  After this year, Ramo and Hiller come off.  Jones' contract is done.  Hudler and Russell are UFA's.  Those are a lot of players that could come off the books, make for great trades, or be re-signed. 

[MAC331]

It didn't really bother me at the time, since I thought Raymond was a better player than he showed.  The NTC bothers me a bit.

Engelland would not be a worry if we didn't increase our cap by having 3 goalies this season valued at $9m, having a new top 2 D, and signing an excellent player like Frolik.

 

The only way I see BT blowing it is if one of these first contracts is the cause of losing a great player for cap reasons.  I seriously doubt that happens.  After this year, Ramo and Hiller come off.  Jones' contract is done.  Hudler and Russell are UFA's.  Those are a lot of players that could come off the books, make for great trades, or be re-signed. 

I have to believe BT has a good way of communicating the organizations vision to the players with where he is coming out with these recent signings. He has had to say to Ramo listen you have a chance to be our #1 but we need you to earn that this season.

I believe the necessary corrections will come evolve and the pay scale throughout the roster be where they need to be eventually.

[robrob1974]

Funny thing is, the only signing I was opposed to was Raymond. If we went back to the Raymond suggestion thread, I was one of the members who was dead set against it. I kept wanting him to prove me wrong, but his compete isn't there. Maybe it's just the fly by d he plays that bugged me most. If he isn't scoring he doesn't bring much.

Engelland, I sort of got, to get over the cap.

[The_People1]

Funny thing is, the only signing I was opposed to was Raymond. If we went back to the Raymond suggestion thread, I was one of the members who was dead set against it. I kept wanting him to prove me wrong, but his compete isn't there. Maybe it's just the fly by d he plays that bugged me most. If he isn't scoring he doesn't bring much.

Engelland, I sort of got, to get over the cap.

 

Yea i hate it when you're right from the beginning and then others try to discredit it by hitting you with, "hindsight is always 20/20".

[travel_dude]

Funny thing is, the only signing I was opposed to was Raymond. If we went back to the Raymond suggestion thread, I was one of the members who was dead set against it. I kept wanting him to prove me wrong, but his compete isn't there. Maybe it's just the fly by d he plays that bugged me most. If he isn't scoring he doesn't bring much.

Engelland, I sort of got, to get over the cap.

 

I was supportive of BT, not so much the player signing.  I hated him as a Nuck, and have been mostly opposed to him being on the roster this season.  If the aim was for goal-scoring, he may have originally fit that description.  As a player brought in to fit the Gio-Hartley system, he was an epic fail.

 

This was the 2nd chance the Flames had to sign him.  It could have been in the previous season, where he showed up wanting to be be a TC try-out.  That season may have been different, since we weren't competing, and we would have seen first hand how he fit on a 1-year deal.  The Flames were not interested. 

 

BT obviously didn't listen enough to his coaching or scouting staff, as they probably wouldn't have suggested him to a 3 year deal.

BT gets a pass for that.  He learned what the Flames truly are and need.

[420since1974]

A definite miss by BT in one of his first deals.

 

But, if Trevling can get rid of Raymond before his NTC contract expires at the end of 2016/2017, I'll be happy enough.

[Flame111]

A definite miss by BT in one of his first deals.

 

But, if Trevling can get rid of Raymond before his NTC contract expires at the end of 2016/2017, I'll be happy enough.

 

I am not giving BT a pass. Although we might understand why he made the mistake, new to the Flames and did not fully understand what he had yet, still it is a mistake. The short one -year contracts are fine, those mis-steps are much easier to over-look because they solve themselves but the 2-3 year contracts are more troublesome. 

 

He has done absolutely great work in this off-season but the Raymond and Engelland contracts / signings  were mistakes. They will be seen as that going forward. He needs to correct them. 

He has time to get rid of them this year but time will tell. It isn't really a money issue for the Flames, since the Owners have given him the option to spend to the Cap, so he can sit them in the box or waive them but they do need to be dealt with. 

 

 

[kehatch]

I am not giving BT a pass. Although we might understand why he made the mistake, new to the Flames and did not fully understand what he had yet, still it is a mistake. The short one -year contracts are fine, those mis-steps are much easier to over-look because they solve themselves but the 2-3 year contracts are more troublesome. 

 

He has done absolutely great work in this off-season but the Raymond and Engelland contracts / signings  were mistakes. They will be seen as that going forward. He needs to correct them. 

He has time to get rid of them this year but time will tell. It isn't really a money issue for the Flames, since the Owners have given him the option to spend to the Cap, so he can sit them in the box or waive them but they do need to be dealt with.  

 

Your not being fair.  Everyone; you, me, BT, etc; thought the Flames were a couple of years away from seriously contending for the playoffs.  Raymond was brought into give the Flames an option so they didn't have to throw their kids in over their heads.  They needed players that weren't super expensive, really wanted to play in Calgary during that build, and had the right character.  Raymond fit the build.  

The fact we blew expectations out of the water and that our kids progressed faster then expected doesn't change that.  if BT planned for what happened and it didn't happen (which is what we would expect) then he would be at fault.  

[Flame111]

My ranking overall for BT since his GM tenure started at this point in time is a solid  " A- "

 

The only reason he doesn't get an A is the Raymond / Engelland contracts because the term is too long and they are going to potentially interfere in future plans 

 

He also has one last huge task as well and that is the Gio contract. 

Your not being fair.  Everyone; you, me, BT, etc; thought the Flames were a couple of years away from seriously contending for the playoffs.  Raymond was brought into give the Flames an option so they didn't have to throw their kids in over their heads.  They needed players that weren't super expensive, really wanted to play in Calgary during that build, and had the right character.  Raymond fit the build.  

The fact we blew expectations out of the water and that our kids progressed faster then expected doesn't change that.  if BT planned for what happened and it didn't happen (which is what we would expect) then he would be at fault.  

 

I get your point but my point is that this thread is being started now because these GM reviews are usually at the end of things when everyone is all hindsight is 20/20. 

 

There may have been reasons to sign Engelland (reaching the cap floor etc) but it is a burden now. I never supported the Emgelland signing and I just shrugged at the Raymond one.  

 

I also am not burying BT. He has every opportunity to somehow move Raymond and Eng and make things better. 

 

I give the guy a solid A- grade and that is good, it just recognizes that the situation isn't perfect at the moment, that is all... 

 

[Khrox]

I still like the Engelland signing. Overpaid a bit, but he comes in, does what we wanted him too (provide a hard hitting crease clearing d-man who will step in if someone starts taking too many liberties), and stepped up and played some solid hockey down the stretch (as much as Brodie was there to cover his mistakes, his play did get better as well). Raymond I wasn't a huge fan of the signing, but again, who saw this many LW's being this good this early (we traded Glencross and we were still logjammed at that position).

[conundrumed]

Yea i hate it when you're right from the beginning and then others try to discredit it by hitting you with, "hindsight is always 20/20".

Like that's ever happened to you lolz

[robrob1974]

I understand players wouldnt want to sign in the middle of the rebuild, but i wish BT couldve signed a more serviceable player or two than Raymond and Engelland. Or, he could've signed two years instead. At least they may have meen moveable in a two year contract.

[kehatch]

I didn't like the Engelland signing because we significantly overpaid for a D because he was big. He isn't a good NHL D. He is just big.

I wasn't a big fan of the term on Raymond. I think my general take was that I didn't love the signing but it was a tough deal to hate given the Flames circumstance.

The Engelland signing was a poor signing IMO. It reeked a bit of Burke and the mandate to add size. Something Treliving has seemed to have gotten over now that he has more credibility as a GM.

I also didn't like the Bollig trade. Giving up assets to bring on that player and contract never made sense to me.

[KACaribou]

I didn't like the Engelland signing because we significantly overpaid for a D because he was big. He isn't a good NHL D. He is just big.

I wasn't a big fan of the term on Raymond. I think my general take was that I didn't love the signing but it was a tough deal to hate given the Flames circumstance.

The Engelland signing was a poor signing IMO. It reeked a bit of Burke and the mandate to add size. Something Treliving has seemed to have gotten over now that he has more credibility as a GM.

I also didn't like the Bollig trade. Giving up assets to bring on that player and contract never made sense to me.

I generally agree. However, championship teams need a mix of all types of players. I have no idea what the formula is mind you. Engelland is one tough so-and-so, and Bollig seems to be feared around the league. In that sense alone, I appreciate having those two on the team. You can't win with a team full of these guys, but I think there is some relevance in having them. Of course it would be good to accumulate guys who have their assets plus skill (and maybe Ferly will be one of them).

[robrob1974]

We need Engelland whenever we play the Canucks, to fight two guys, because that is how they fight.

[cross16]

I think its pretty fair to say that if BT doesn't sign engelland the flames don't make the playoffs so I dont' think is fair to call that a bad signing at all. i get most fans dont like him and i get the "advanced stats" arn't in his favor but perosnally i like him and think he is a very good fit here. yes his AAV is a bit too high but thats FA, and the fact is the Flames need top 6 NHL dman which I think englelland clealry is.

 

Raymond, i liked the player, didn't like the term and still don't like the term. i get why they signed him but i don't get the 3rd year. Could have stomached 2 years but the 3rd was tough. Not a great signing by BT but not an awful one teither. I like the Bolig trade personally. wish they gave up a 4th instead of a 3rd and i thought the 3rd price tag was a tad too high bu i also like what he brought, and continues to bring, to a young team.

 

Treliving IMO has yet to really make a glaring mistake. he's made little ones here and there that "Might" hurt the club in 2-3 years time but nothing super glaring which is what i like about him. sure we can argue he overpaid for someone here, or gave too much term there, but i don't think there is a big red X marking any of his transactions so far.

[Wreckening]

Have to agree with Cross. No major hiccups from the GM. The bad contracts to date were made out of necessity really. No one and I mean no one at all expected we'd be this far ahead in the rebuild. If we had a crap year last season and were still looking at truly building rather than rounding out these so called bad contracts would be welcomed by the community for the most part. The only reason they look bad is because of the situation we find ourselves in now.