Brad Treliving - GM Tracking & Evaluation

[conundrumed]

If you think I drink the koolaid then clearly you aren't familiar with my posts. But the reality is the Flames are rebuilding and getting bent out of shape over a poor season is silly.

Oh please. Was the poor season unexpected? You are definitely taking the wrong road.

Who is responsible for goalie contracts? Who signed Raymond and Engelland at 3 per?

Who signed Bouma for $2.2? Backlund at $3.5?

We want to be a black and blue team now?

Maybe don't take 2 yrs to let us know that, because we wouldn't know that direction so far...

[kehatch]

Oh please. Was the poor season unexpected? You are definitely taking the wrong road.

Who is responsible for goalie contracts? Who signed Raymond and Engelland at 3 per?

Who signed Bouma for $2.2? Backlund at $3.5?

We want to be a black and blue team now?

Maybe don't take 2 yrs to let us know that, because we wouldn't know that direction so far...

Your one of the few people I have heard anywhere this critical of Treliving. You want to stand on an island then feel free. But maybe tone the condensation down a bit if that's your plan.

I don't like some of the depth contracts he has signed. I don't like how he addressed the goaltending last season. I have been consistent saying that.

But he has done much more good then bad. He has considerably added to the talent pool in his short time here and given up very little to do it. His drafts look solid. He has signed our best players to value contracts.

You seem hung up on the fact we weren't great last season and you seem to think Hartley is taking the fall for it. The reality is a rebuild doesn't happen overnight and Hartley was let go for many reasons that go beyond last seasons results.

You also seem hung up on the "black and blue" comments. I think you (and others) are making way to much out of that. The Flames want to get bigger and they want to be tougher to play against. That isn't exactly a revelation and it certainly isn't something to get upset about. It isn't like Treliving has went out and sacrificed talent for a goon squad. Despite his reputation Burke never did that either. He was as big on skill players as anyone. Doesn't mean he doesn't want to pad them with some size throughout the line up though.

[robrob1974]

I think it's both coach and GM on this one.

The one thing Hartley stopped doing was investing in new kids. He invested in the ones he trusted.

I think management failed to ice a team that can compete the way they want to in the Pacific. But that too is part of inheriting a team that was in the start of a rebuild and not able to play that way. It's now a matter of drafting. Has Treliving done a good enough job drafting guys to play to that style?

If he hasn't, we are still years away from playing that style and getting to where we want be.

I think if Hartley had a complete team he would've gotten better results. But there was a storm in the beginning of the year which proved the lack of depth which created a Hartley with his head cut off. Using the chicken analogy. But Hartley began to coach outside of his own head I think, which was why he got away from the "Earned" portion of the team motto. Getting away from that stopped team growth and stagnated us.

All of it got him fired and Treliving didn't place all of the blame on him. Everyone is to blame on this one!

But I think we are still about 3-5 years away from playing the "black and blue" style management is interested in playing. Who do we have that has NHL potential coming through that can play that way?

Hathaway and Ferland...

I am leery on Smith but have hopes he can.

We don't have much of those players unless we acquire through signing or trades, we are years away from it.

[Khrox]

They said black-and-blue style. But I'm pretty sure they meant for the bottom 6. Burke likes his big boys, but time and again he has taken straight skill over straight size. With his late picks he might take a guy on size (such as we did with Riley Bruce in the 7th round). The ideal would be a skill guy with size and a physical edge (your Getzlaf's, Perry's, Ovechkin's, and the slightly smaller side of this with your Iginla's and PK Subban's). If you have a chance to add a guy with size and skill who plays a black and blue game, you pull the trigger. But you build your top 6 with skill and bottom 6 with your more heart and soul/black and blue guys. So ya, Stajan and Raymond might not fit there, but your Bouma, Hathaway kind of guys are perfect. And ya, Colborne, Backs and Frolik might not be your black-and-blue guys, but they do their job well enough to not have to be that. Bennet actually does play that style, and if you get him a guy with a mean streak and some skill (possibly Hunter Smith in a few years?) you got a solid second line that plays black and blue still.

As for the Raymond and Engelland contracts, they were stop-gaps at weaker positions that we weren't expecting a logjam at. We weren't expecting Gaudreau to make it straight to the NHL, let alone a 60+ point season his first pro year. We weren't sure how many guys we had that were going to be top 6 wingers. As for Engelland, I wont rag on that contract. The dude has definitely played well above what he should be at (admittedly he is paid above what you would expect a 3rd pairing D to be. All said and done though, he has played second pairing/first pairing more than third pairing since being here due to injuries to Gio and Brodie and the Wideman suspension). Not only that, but Engelland has actually played reasonable well. Treliving also stated he paid more than he would have liked for these stop-gaps in order to not go more than 3 years length (From what I understand, Raymond was pushing for a 5 year deal). If we signed someone like Raymond to a 5 year deal the price may have been 2.5 mil/per, but then we'd also have an extra 2 years on him and people would be complaining about that (and rightfully so).

[MAC331]

I think it's both coach and GM on this one.

The one thing Hartley stopped doing was investing in new kids. He invested in the ones he trusted.

I think management failed to ice a team that can compete the way they want to in the Pacific. But that too is part of inheriting a team that was in the start of a rebuild and not able to play that way. It's now a matter of drafting. Has Treliving done a good enough job drafting guys to play to that style?

If he hasn't, we are still years away from playing that style and getting to where we want be.

I think if Hartley had a complete team he would've gotten better results. But there was a storm in the beginning of the year which proved the lack of depth which created a Hartley with his head cut off. Using the chicken analogy. But Hartley began to coach outside of his own head I think, which was why he got away from the "Earned" portion of the team motto. Getting away from that stopped team growth and stagnated us.

All of it got him fired and Treliving didn't place all of the blame on him. Everyone is to blame on this one!

But I think we are still about 3-5 years away from playing the "black and blue" style management is interested in playing. Who do we have that has NHL potential coming through that can play that way?

Hathaway and Ferland...

I am leery on Smith but have hopes he can.

We don't have much of those players unless we acquire through signing or trades, we are years away from it.

We shouldn't over blow this black and blue comment or truculence emphasis IMO, every team wants to be hard to play against. I think we need some players with some skill and toughness that will gain their own respect. I loved this about Iginla even though he needed a scrap to wake him up every so often. Players in the game today would be the Toffoli LAK and Coyle MIN type wingers. You need a good mix and not everyone the same, Colborne is big but he won't run you over or rattle your teeth with a check however he does a lot of good work with his reach. Ferland IMO has not received a full opportunity to show his stuff under BH for whatever reason, hopefully that changes next season. BT will have to keep his eyes open for these types of players. I think Tkachuk is one of these types but if he is gone by our pick should you bypass a player like Nylander that could be a fit for our top line ?

In regards to the overpaid contracts some were needed to support the youth movement, some players got more than they should have however the removal of these contracts has started. Gone are Hudler, Jones and Russell and the savings are substantial, next should be Wideman, Stajan and Raymond all of which likely costs the team money in retained salary. In the 2017/18 offseason we likely should change out Backlund, Bouma and Engelland (expired contract). Change is coming, just a matter of how and when.

[conundrumed]

Your one of the few people I have heard anywhere this critical of Treliving. You want to stand on an island then feel free. But maybe tone the condensation down a bit if that's your plan.

I don't like some of the depth contracts he has signed. I don't like how he addressed the goaltending last season. I have been consistent saying that.

But he has done much more good then bad. He has considerably added to the talent pool in his short time here and given up very little to do it. His drafts look solid. He has signed our best players to value contracts.

You seem hung up on the fact we weren't great last season and you seem to think Hartley is taking the fall for it. The reality is a rebuild doesn't happen overnight and Hartley was let go for many reasons that go beyond last seasons results.

You also seem hung up on the "black and blue" comments. I think you (and others) are making way to much out of that. The Flames want to get bigger and they want to be tougher to play against. That isn't exactly a revelation and it certainly isn't something to get upset about. It isn't like Treliving has went out and sacrificed talent for a goon squad. Despite his reputation Burke never did that either. He was as big on skill players as anyone. Doesn't mean he doesn't want to pad them with some size throughout the line up though.

You keep telling me what I'm hung up on, then tell me to tone it down? For what? How's the kool-aid?

C'mon kehatch, I'm being critical of BT is all, call it an island if you like, but someone has to be.

Do I mind the BH firing? Not much.

Do I like BT's comments on it? Not really.

Did I expect a great team last year? No.

 

Now in all of this, I know BT inherited players. He added Hamilton and Frolik, The Russell deal was good. I'm good with that.

He gave BH the 3 headed G monster no coach would ever want. He started the tenure filling holes that he only perceived, and he perceived wrong. 

There's 2 main things imho that hurts everything in the lineup including PP and PK. We all know about goaltending, which he's spent 2 yrs doing zero to address. Now we are completely desperate.

The other is faceoffs. Want a better PP, PK? Win a faceoff, it's not a big secret. Where's the $1m Vernon Fiddler's? They're out there. So while you scour around other leagues hoping for Nakladl's Morrisson's and Pribyl's, shed salaries and feel free to not neglect cheap 10 yr vets that have been regulars in this league and easily give you 8-12 minutes a night in any role.

Want to be hard to play against? Where's your cheap Upshall's and Moen's? Brandon Bollig is all you did, worst of the bunch.

It feels like Feaster to me, making it complicated.

At least we're in the least penalized in the league, because we're soft.

I'm not hung up on "black and blue", I'm offended by it. The answer is Bollig and Engelland?

That's 2 yrs ago, he's done zero to add that definition since.

Someone has to be critical, blast away.

[AlbertaBoy12]

You keep telling me what I'm hung up on, then tell me to tone it down? For what? How's the kool-aid?

C'mon kehatch, I'm being critical of BT is all, call it an island if you like, but someone has to be.

Do I mind the BH firing? Not much.

Do I like BT's comments on it? Not really.

Did I expect a great team last year? No.

 

Now in all of this, I know BT inherited players. He added Hamilton and Frolik, The Russell deal was good. I'm good with that.

He gave BH the 3 headed G monster no coach would ever want. He started the tenure filling holes that he only perceived, and he perceived wrong. 

There's 2 main things imho that hurts everything in the lineup including PP and PK. We all know about goaltending, which he's spent 2 yrs doing zero to address. Now we are completely desperate.

The other is faceoffs. Want a better PP, PK? Win a faceoff, it's not a big secret. Where's the $1m Vernon Fiddler's? They're out there. So while you scour around other leagues hoping for Nakladl's Morrisson's and Pribyl's, shed salaries and feel free to not neglect cheap 10 yr vets that have been regulars in this league and easily give you 8-12 minutes a night in any role.

Want to be hard to play against? Where's your cheap Upshall's and Moen's? Brandon Bollig is all you did, worst of the bunch.

It feels like Feaster to me, making it complicated.

At least we're in the least penalized in the league, because we're soft.

I'm not hung up on "black and blue", I'm offended by it. The answer is Bollig and Engelland?

That's 2 yrs ago, he's done zero to add that definition since.

Someone has to be critical, blast away.

A little biased are we? 

 

The goaltending in the season where we made the playoffs was league average, and I dont think anyone could guess that they would have been that bad. I agree that its not the ideal situation for any coach, but him running with hiller and ramo even when it wasent working made no sense. 

 

I dont see why nakladal, morrison or pribyl are bad signings, where are we getting these vernon fiddlers from, id love to see you name off a couple free agents that we will be able to sign this offseason to address our needs. 

 

Its pretty easy to sit there and play arm chair gm saying that the percieved holes werent there, when we looked like a completely different team when the signings were made. I almost forgot to mention that as of yet the signings havent pervented us from signing a young player that we need to sign so I dont see why they are bad. Its not like we have a bunch of NHL ready d men sitting in the minors waiting to play behind engelland. 

 

I would argue that ferland, bennett are a couple chippy players that can be hard to play against but they are still young. Bollig is a serviceable 4th liner, the problem is his usage, he got played with more d zone starts playing with stajan, obviously its a role he couldnt handle. Im not suggesting hes a great player, but if we used him for what he is playing alongside grant and jooris the 4th line would be far better off. 

[phoenix66]

You keep telling me what I'm hung up on, then tell me to tone it down? For what? How's the kool-aid?

C'mon kehatch, I'm being critical of BT is all, call it an island if you like, but someone has to be.

Do I mind the BH firing? Not much.

Do I like BT's comments on it? Not really.

Did I expect a great team last year? No.

 

Now in all of this, I know BT inherited players. He added Hamilton and Frolik, The Russell deal was good. I'm good with that.

He gave BH the 3 headed G monster no coach would ever want. He started the tenure filling holes that he only perceived, and he perceived wrong. 

There's 2 main things imho that hurts everything in the lineup including PP and PK. We all know about goaltending, which he's spent 2 yrs doing zero to address. Now we are completely desperate.

The other is faceoffs. Want a better PP, PK? Win a faceoff, it's not a big secret. Where's the $1m Vernon Fiddler's? They're out there. So while you scour around other leagues hoping for Nakladl's Morrisson's and Pribyl's, shed salaries and feel free to not neglect cheap 10 yr vets that have been regulars in this league and easily give you 8-12 minutes a night in any role.

Want to be hard to play against? Where's your cheap Upshall's and Moen's? Brandon Bollig is all you did, worst of the bunch.

It feels like Feaster to me, making it complicated.

At least we're in the least penalized in the league, because we're soft.

I'm not hung up on "black and blue", I'm offended by it. The answer is Bollig and Engelland?

That's 2 yrs ago, he's done zero to add that definition since.

Someone has to be critical, blast away.

 

 

 

Its very simple to hate deals in hindsight. Nobody coudl have seen the Emergence of Johnny, Jooris or even Bouma. So Bt filled holes based on what he had.

While the number may have been high , Raymond was coming off a great Show me season in Toronto.. even the haters figured he'd be getting at at least 12-15 goals per year , was his decline BT's fault?

Bollig was a valuable contributor to a Stanley Cup winning team .. was it not reasonable to assume we'd get some quality play out of him ?

Engelland , when given higher minutes and roles has shown he can be worth every penny he gets paid

 

The Failures of these players I feel are more Bobs doing than BT

 

BT has owned Goalie roster, but , if youre blaming the GM for putting competition at the position into training camp then Id say its misdirected. he got Hiller, yes, who gave us one year of great goaltending . nobody saw him disappearing the next season. It was Hartley who ran with the 3 goalies.. im sure if he chose to send one at the end of camp then it would have been done.   But even then Hartley ran with Hiller when he was definitely not he best of the 3.

 

At teh end of the Day every GM has a deal or 2 he'd like a do over on , but its the coaches job to use the players he is goven to the best way possible . BT's failures were based on prev play of a player, them not giving us the same play here , cannot be pinned on him 

[conundrumed]

Alright, run with that thinking, I'll wait to see what he improves this offseason.

We'll see what he does, but while you write everything off to something else, I have huge question marks.

No harm, no foul.

[kehatch]

Now in all of this, I know BT inherited players. He added Hamilton and Frolik, The Russell deal was good. I'm good with that.

He gave BH the 3 headed G monster no coach would ever want. He started the tenure filling holes that he only perceived, and he perceived wrong. 

There's 2 main things imho that hurts everything in the lineup including PP and PK. We all know about goaltending, which he's spent 2 yrs doing zero to address. Now we are completely desperate.

The other is faceoffs. Want a better PP, PK? Win a faceoff, it's not a big secret. Where's the $1m Vernon Fiddler's? They're out there. So while you scour around other leagues hoping for Nakladl's Morrisson's and Pribyl's, shed salaries and feel free to not neglect cheap 10 yr vets that have been regulars in this league and easily give you 8-12 minutes a night in any role.

Want to be hard to play against? Where's your cheap Upshall's and Moen's? Brandon Bollig is all you did, worst of the bunch.

It feels like Feaster to me, making it complicated.

At least we're in the least penalized in the league, because we're soft.

I'm not hung up on "black and blue", I'm offended by it. The answer is Bollig and Engelland?

That's 2 yrs ago, he's done zero to add that definition since.

Someone has to be critical, blast away.

 

Your identifying holes like special teams, goal tending, lack of size, face offs, etc and being critical because they aren't addressed.  Nobody is disputing those as issues.  The point is that Treliving inherited a rebuild and he has done a lot of positive things in the limited time he has.  It seems really silly to be critical because there are still issues on the team.  Of course not all problems have been eliminated.  In fact, going out and spending a bunch of resources to try and patch all of those issues is exactly the wrong thing to do.  It is what a crappy GM would have done.  Much better to stockpile long term resources and let your young guys develop then try and chase  a quick fix.  

[conundrumed]

"A bunch of resources" are low risk, low contract experienced NHLers to help the young guys along and to buy time from everyone judging our prospect development.

You're confusing it with trading off the future for vets.

You can sign a vet quite easily at ufa and lose nothing for the rebuild. There's great cheap ones that don't show up on the score sheet but sure make you a hard team.

The young guys need more than 2 or 3 of those around them imho.

[DirtyDeeds]

Its very simple to hate deals in hindsight. Nobody coudl have seen the Emergence of Johnny, Jooris or even Bouma. So Bt filled holes based on what he had.

While the number may have been high , Raymond was coming off a great Show me season in Toronto.. even the haters figured he'd be getting at at least 12-15 goals per year , was his decline BT's fault?

If Raymond was so great on his show me season for Leafs then why did they not re-sign him? It turned out to be  a terrible signing even after BH tried to give him opportunities throughout the lineup.

 

Bollig was a valuable contributor to a Stanley Cup winning team .. was it not reasonable to assume we'd get some quality play out of him ?

I am curious what you would make you think that Bolig was going to duplicate his career year with Chicago while on the Flames? is it his career high of 7 goals and 7 assists? His two previous years certainly don't show anything that a GM who does his homework would want.

 

Engelland , when given higher minutes and roles has shown he can be worth every penny he gets paid

I agree with you on Engelland. Not many do.

 

The Failures of these players I feel are more Bobs doing than BT

 

BT has owned Goalie roster, but , if youre blaming the GM for putting competition at the position into training camp then Id say its misdirected. he got Hiller, yes, who gave us one year of great goaltending . nobody saw him disappearing the next season. It was Hartley who ran with the 3 goalies.. im sure if he chose to send one at the end of camp then it would have been done.   But even then Hartley ran with Hiller when he was definitely not he best of the 3.

 

BT owned up for the goaltending. He is the one who gave BH 3 goalies and wanted him to make it work. BH has said many times 3 goalies don't work. BH did not prevent Ortio from going through waivers earlier in the season.. So how do you point fingers at BH when BT owned up to this mistake? It was not BH who ran with 3 goalies......... BH ran with his tandem from last season. Neither one played worth elbowing.

 

At teh end of the Day every GM has a deal or 2 he'd like a do over on , but its the coaches job to use the players he is goven to the best way possible . BT's failures were based on prev play of a player, them not giving us the same play here , cannot be pinned on him 

To expect consistency from raw rookies and prospects is silly. Look at the Oilers up north to see this in action. It was mostly goaltending and vets who let us down this season. BH has paid the price for elbowingty goaltending and some poor vet performances.

 

You would think in their daily talk between BT and BH that the topic of "I would like to see less shot blocking and more possession play" would have come up, wouldn't you? BH was really surprised in his interview when told asked about this. If BT wanted to see this then why did he not say anything during the year??

[robrob1974]

Conundrum, I agree he made a few premature deals before he assessed the team with his own eyes.

Maybe the Raymond injury derailed him, maybe not, but I've said it before, he was not a player we needed. But I agree, he could've used a look to see what the team was like before making deals.

Some re-signs were nearly minimally overpaid, but not terribly. I wasn't happy about some, but workable.

I just think all is at fault on this season. It was a elbowing show most of the time. It took awhile to get going and it was too late when they did.

[kehatch]

"A bunch of resources" are low risk, low contract experienced NHLers to help the young guys along and to buy time from everyone judging our prospect development.

You're confusing it with trading off the future for vets.

You can sign a vet quite easily at ufa and lose nothing for the rebuild. There's great cheap ones that don't show up on the score sheet but sure make you a hard team.

The young guys need more than 2 or 3 of those around them imho.

If it was easy to sign key veterans to short term deals on rebuilding teams then there wouldn't be any teams in rebuilds. Who are these vets you speak of?

Trading assets or committing to more bad contracts is the wrong thing to do. There isn't a short term fix.

[phoenix66]

To expect consistency from raw rookies and prospects is silly. Look at the Oilers up north to see this in action. It was mostly goaltending and vets who let us down this season. BH has paid the price for elbowingty goaltending and some poor vet performances.

 

You would think in their daily talk between BT and BH that the topic of "I would like to see less shot blocking and more possession play" would have come up, wouldn't you? BH was really surprised in his interview when told asked about this. If BT wanted to see this then why did he not say anything during the year??

 

 

Im not saying Bollig and Raymond were good signings.. at the end of the day they weren't, but its hindsight i was referring to.

He had no way of knowing who would step up and fill those holes (Eg Johnny, Jooris, Bouma)  a 15-20 goal scorer would look mighty appealing if Johnny had started the year on the farm like everybody expected.

 we needed a better player with some ability to play instead of Magrattan all the time.. Bollig was seen as an upgrade to Magrattan (yes i know we still had Magrattan, but his limited minutes ate up a roster spot)

Not saying they panned out .. just that he cant really be faulted for the decision making process that got him there 

 

As for the goalies.. the prev season left every reason to believe the 2 we needed would come from the 3 the year before

Who plays and who stays.. that's up to Bob. He put way too much faith in Hiller being able to Bounce back.. even when up to that point Ramo was outplaying him, aside from the mop up job where both goalies got lit up , Ramo had only 2 starts and played actually VERY well in one of the losses. The decision on who to send down , wasn't BT.. it was Bob who said to keep Hiller.

If I fault BT for anything , it would be not forcing Bob's hand and demoting Hiller by his own decision ..by the time that happened  and Ramo was given a run due to a Hiller Injury, it was too late

[DirtyDeeds]

Im not saying Bollig and Raymond were good signings.. at the end of the day they weren't, but its hindsight i was referring to.

He had no way of knowing who would step up and fill those holes (Eg Johnny, Jooris, Bouma)  a 15-20 goal scorer would look mighty appealing if Johnny had started the year on the farm like everybody expected.

 we needed a better player with some ability to play instead of Magrattan all the time.. Bollig was seen as an upgrade to Magrattan (yes i know we still had Magrattan, but his limited minutes ate up a roster spot)

Not saying they panned out .. just that he cant really be faulted for the decision making process that got him there 

 

Sorry but his decision making process was screwed up. He did not have to give them 3 year contracts. 1 year would have been fine. Add to that 3x 3.15 mil to Raymond was huge overpayment even if he had played to T.O. levels. They only paid him 1 mil for his show me season. Do I even have to ask why he was given a NTC? This is not a "hindsight looks bad" signing. I don't remember many here thinking this was a good signing.

 

As for the goalies.. the prev season left every reason to believe the 2 we needed would come from the 3 the year before

Who plays and who stays.. that's up to Bob. He put way too much faith in Hiller being able to Bounce back.. even when up to that point Ramo was outplaying him, aside from the mop up job where both goalies got lit up , Ramo had only 2 starts and played actually VERY well in one of the losses. The decision on who to send down , wasn't BT.. it was Bob who said to keep Hiller.

If I fault BT for anything , it would be not forcing Bob's hand and demoting Hiller by his own decision ..by the time that happened  and Ramo was given a run due to a Hiller Injury, it was too late

Well BT admitted he made a mistake. If you choose to fault BH then so be it. BT owned up to it even in hindsight. He said it was his decision and it did not work. The only good part was he was adamant on preventing Ortio from going through waivers early. It is anyone's guess if he would have been claimed at that point of the season. We do know he wasn't claimed later.

 

It was BT that signed Ortio to a 2 year contract the second year being the 1way portion. BT was supposed to have traded Hiller before the season began.. that fell through He didn't, we ended up with 3 goalies and BH can't be chastised for going with only 2. Personally I would have gone with Hiller and Ramo as well likely stayed with them to try and get them going too. I would have put Ortio through waivers early though.

[conundrumed]

If it was easy to sign key veterans to short term deals on rebuilding teams then there wouldn't be any teams in rebuilds. Who are these vets you speak of?

Trading assets or committing to more bad contracts is the wrong thing to do. There isn't a short term fix.

It's looking like, for Bouma money or less per:

M. Richards

Travis Moen

Vernon Fiddler

Jason Chimera

Jarrett Stoll

Trevor Lewis

*perhaps* Alex Tanguay

Scott Upshall

 

Not one of these is over 2 yrs, yet most of them provide a "black and blue" haha, j/k.

But they provide a backbone for our young guys, so to speak.

None of these guys will lead your team in scoring, but they've played a lot of NHL.

They're the type of players, mainly, that keep you honest, good or bad, been there done that.

[conundrumed]

A little biased are we?

Not sure how I'm biased. For/Against who?

[phoenix66]

Well BT admitted he made a mistake. If you choose to fault BH then so be it. BT owned up to it even in hindsight. He said it was his decision and it did not work. The only good part was he was adamant on preventing Ortio from going through waivers early. It is anyone's guess if he would have been claimed at that point of the season. We do know he wasn't claimed later.

 

 

he rightfully owned up to what / who our 3 goalies were " Our goalies weren't good enough.. that's on me".. but he also pointed out "The play in front off the goaltenders was also very poor"..  thats on Bob  he stated that was part of what led to his dismissal

[conundrumed]

he rightfully owned up to what / who our 3 goalies were " Our goalies weren't good enough.. that's on me".. but he also pointed out "The play in front off the goaltenders was also very poor"..  thats on Bob  he stated that was part of what led to his dismissal

How about, "He's taken this team as far as I think he can".

So much for being a "classy" org.

Let's see how far BT can take it.

[phoenix66]

How about, "He's taken this team as far as I think he can".

So much for being a "classy" org.

Let's see how far BT can take it.

 

Look i get it was an unpopular decision , Im even on record in these threads as saying i thought he deserved a do over.. but the reality is , if youre a coach in the NHL, theres a 99.9% guarantee you will get fired one day.

BT's test is now.. hes convinced we need a certain style to win in this league.. his job is to provide the players who play that style, and to put a coach in place to utilize it.  If he's wrong, he'll be fired one day too.

 

He was obviously convinced it wasn't sustainable based on the 2 year deal he gave Bob.. he was getting results, it was classy they kept him in the first place cuz usually the coach goes first , that and obviously he was getting results.

His results went backwards.. theres no denying BH didnt coach the team the same way this year as he did the years before.. the list has been hashed to death on here.. we can say bad goalies, but Bobs system needs an elite goalie.. we can say players had off years, but last year Bob benched people having bad years, this year he stuck with them while new blood rotted..

 

I liked bob , and everything he did for us.. but its true, he did this to himself as much as it was done to him..and i believe that a possible do over, had possible bad ramifications.. let him lose an entire season, or bring in a new coach part way with no training camp to waste it anyway .. hes right , if he truly believed, it had to be done now

[AlbertaBoy12]

It's looking like, for Bouma money or less per:

M. Richards

Travis Moen

Vernon Fiddler

Jason Chimera

Jarrett Stoll

Trevor Lewis

*perhaps* Alex Tanguay

Scott Upshall

 

Not one of these is over 2 yrs, yet most of them provide a "black and blue" haha, j/k.

But they provide a backbone for our young guys, so to speak.

None of these guys will lead your team in scoring, but they've played a lot of NHL.

They're the type of players, mainly, that keep you honest, good or bad, been there done that.

And how are we gettign these players?

 

Not sure how I'm biased. For/Against who?

Against BT, as much as you said he did some good things, it seems like you think he should have grabbed different players some how, and im not following the how.

[conundrumed]

And how are we gettign these players?

 

Against BT, as much as you said he did some good things, it seems like you think he should have grabbed different players some how, and im not following the how.

They are UFA.

 

He's now telling us how we want to be harder to play against, he's done next to zero in that regard for 2 years.

[phoenix66]

They are UFA.

 

He's now telling us how we want to be harder to play against, he's done next to zero in that regard for 2 years.

 yes but lets not forget :

- after last season , Bob gave us a miracle season .. so he brought in a couple skill players

- he knew last season  Johnny and Mony are earning big raises until those happen .. he doesnt know his budget - couple that with not even knowing the Cap for next year yet .

 

as much surprise players made his earlier acquisitions redundant ..  what happened to Ferland and Bouma this year ?. Ferland certainly wasnt the human wrecking ball he made us believe he would be .. Bouma was injured

 

Any UFA worth picking up , will  cost too much in either term or Money so need to be sure of what we have and what we need first and also how much money we will even have to spend on them ..sounds like Johnny, Monny and a Goalie are first on that list 

 

its so easy for us to  sit here and say " go get them"..  on the one hand you criticize him for not knowing what we have before getting players.. now he's seeing what we do have first and then getting criticized for not getting the players

[DirtyDeeds]

They are UFA.

 

He's now telling us how we want to be harder to play against, he's done next to zero in that regard for 2 years.

But, but, but didn't we get Devin Setoguchi?

 

I bet the other teams will be shaking in their boots soon as we get all these tough guys into the lineup: 

 yes but lets not forget :

- after last season , Bob gave us a miracle season .. so he brought in a couple skill players

- he knew last season  Johnny and Mony are earning big raises until those happen .. he doesnt know his budget - couple that with not even knowing the Cap for next year yet .

 

as much surprise players made his earlier acquisitions redundant ..  what happened to Ferland and Bouma this year ?. Ferland certainly wasnt the human wrecking ball he made us believe he would be .. Bouma was injured

 

Any UFA worth picking up , will  cost too much in either term or Money so need to be sure of what we have and what we need first and also how much money we will even have to spend on them ..sounds like Johnny, Monny and a Goalie are first on that list 

 

its so easy for us to  sit here and say " go get them"..  on the one hand you criticize him for not knowing what we have before getting players.. now he's seeing what we do have first and then getting criticized for not getting the players

Unless BT can dump some of our overpriced players(Wideman for example) I wouldn't be placing any bets on the Flames having the money to pickup much more than a goaltender for this coming season.