Goaltending

[s4xon]

Actually I know the answer.  A large part of my job is working with performance related data.  I also have some formal education in statistics and metrics.  You misuse data in incredibly misleading ways. 

 

with all due respect, those are very outdated statistical concepts you're using.   I also earn a living working with performance related data.

 

I'm not choosing sides here, but pretty much all occupations adopt statistical performance related data skills of some form or another.  Whether you work at McDonalds and follow trends of fry sales or tally how much till theft there is after a nightly/weekly float count, or if you are the CEO of a major corporation and follow stock trend analysis. 

 

However, JJ, statistical concepts are never outdated.  They are evolved using those 'outdated' methods as a base. 

 

They teach this in college/university statistics, of which I just finished this portion of my nursing degree last term.

 

 

Remember when you said that the best goaltender will get the playing time, "simple"?

 

That's Jmac right now and we all know it.

 

A concept that is outdated is the almighty 'assumption'.

[jjgallow]

Hmm.   I wrote a bunch.  Then I decided it's pointless.   That kind of sums it up.

 

It would be nice, if it turns out that I'm right, that I can continue posting in this thread without being called pretentious.

 

Just a dream of mine for a few months down the road.

 

Can I congratulate JMac on a well-played game tonight, or would that be seen as poor sportsmanship on my part?

[travel_dude]

Hmm.   I wrote a bunch.  Then I decided it's pointless.   That kind of sums it up.

 

It would be nice, if it turns out that I'm right, that I can continue posting in this thread without being called pretentious.

 

Just a dream of mine for a few months down the road.

 

Can I congratulate JMac on a well-played game tonight, or would that be seen as poor sportsmanship on my part?

 

Sure.  He played well enough against a lesser team.  He made some saves look easy, but also looked out of place on a lot of shots.

Overall, it was a good team effort, and Joey gets the W.

[Wreckening]

Being only the second game of the season we have to give the goalies a little time to get in the groove of things so to speak. I thought JMac played alright but like Ramo last night he got out of position a few times and looked shaky. I think we have to wait and see what we've got before we start panicking about our goalie situation.

[s4xon]

Can I congratulate JMac on a well-played game tonight, or would that be seen as poor sportsmanship on my part?

 

[senor_incendiarse]

Can I congratulate JMac on a well-played game tonight, or would that be seen as poor sportsmanship on my part?

 

Sure nothing wrong with that, but 2 goalies played 2 different teams one played a team with the reigning MVP and an elite PP and the other played Columbus.  I think we give this some time before we call one goalie Jesus and the other terrible.

[phoenix66]

Too many posts to try and quote, so ill just summarize. It's way too early to suggest a goaltending controversy between the 2. Ramo had a great preseason and played against a legitimate contender on opening night, and although there was a couple im sure hed like to have back he was a big reason there even was a shootout. Taylor looked good against colombus, another likely non playoff team, but he didnt steal this one, it was a team win.

Jmac reminds me of jamie,, the perfect backup goalie. You can play him with confidence and he will get you wins or at best not cost you the game.i suspect he could play as high as 30 games this year. But he's not a starter. Ive said a few times before that there are those who use kipper as the bar, we need to remember we have been spoiled in that regard.

So long as ramo continues to evolve, make big saves and doesnt consistently lose us games, hes proving himself the starter in my eyes. If he falters, youll see Berra up here quicker than you'll see jmac as the #1

[jjgallow]

Too many posts to try and quote, so ill just summarize. It's way too early to suggest a goaltending controversy between the 2. Ramo had a great preseason and played against a legitimate contender on opening night, and although there was a couple im sure hed like to have back he was a big reason there even was a shootout. Taylor looked good against colombus, another likely non playoff team, but he didnt steal this one, it was a team win.

Jmac reminds me of jamie,, the perfect backup goalie. You can play him with confidence and he will get you wins or at best not cost you the game.i suspect he could play as high as 30 games this year. But he's not a starter. Ive said a few times before that there are those who use kipper as the bar, we need to remember we have been spoiled in that regard.

So long as ramo continues to evolve, make big saves and doesnt consistently lose us games, hes proving himself the starter in my eyes. If he falters, youll see Berra up here quicker than you'll see jmac as the #1

 

Now there's one more

[jjgallow]

 If he falters, youll see Berra up here quicker than you'll see jmac as the #1

 

I actually agree with this, at least partially.

 

Reto was good, but not great, in his AHL home opener.  I do suspect he may actually be the better goalie between himself and Ramo, although I agree that Ramo outplayed him, at least slightly, in the preseason.

 

IMHO, you are also correct that JMac is the perfect backup.  Any contender would be glad to have him as a backup.

 

But, for us, he may have to do as a starter.   From what I've seen so far, he is the better goaltender of both Ramo and Berra.  Yes, people have pointed out that this might change, and we've only played  two games.  Or, it might not change.

 

Ultimately, what matters is which two goalies are up here.   I would personally expect Berra to be coming up shortly unless Ramo suddenly turns into the goalie many on here want him to be.  I know I'm getting ahead of myself and we need to give Ramo a fair chance.   But I completely agree with you that a very likely outcome is that Berra comes back up.  

 

In that event, would Ramo go back down, or bolt for Russia?  I'm not sure if, technically, he can go back to the KHL this year.  But I think  he could bolt for Russia all the same.  

 

And, that would put an actual prospect back in the Heat's starting position.

[phoenix66]

Now there's one more

Lol,, you make it look like I said Joey had the better game. He looked good, but ramo had flashes of brilliance. I think once he has a 10 game segment to review and the nerves have gone away, we will know better.

[dijnn]

I think Ramo did better but not by alot. We still dont have a number 1 goalie.

[phoenix66]

I actually agree with this, at least partially.

 

Reto was good, but not great, in his AHL home opener.  I do suspect he may actually be the better goalie between himself and Ramo, although I agree that Ramo outplayed him, at least slightly, in the preseason.

 

IMHO, you are also correct that JMac is the perfect backup.  Any contender would be glad to have him as a backup.

 

But, for us, he may have to do as a starter.   From what I've seen so far, he is the better goaltender of both Ramo and Berra.

 

Ultimately, what matters is which two goalies are up here.   I would personally expect Berra to be coming up shortly unless Ramo suddenly turns into the goalie many on here want him to be.  I know I'm getting ahead of myself and we need to give Ramo a fair chance.   But I completely agree with you that a very likely outcome is that Berra comes back up.  

 

In that event, would Ramo go back down, or bolt for Russia?  I'm not sure if, technically, he can go back to the KHL this year.  But I think  he could bolt for Russia all the same.  

 

And, that would put an actual prospect back in the Heat's starting position.

Actually, youre going to disagree with this but I would not be surprised to see ramo and berra as the 1-2 by season end.if he plays solid like we know he will, some contender will pay to have him as insurance, and by next season im sure theyd like those 2 both up, and potentially trade ine for a great return to promote Brossoit or ortio up as backup the following season.

The entire team is growing and rebuilding, that includes the goaltending. If we wanted a pure vet who was going to steal games we woykd have pitched hard for Thomas or Bryz

I think Ramo did better but not by alot. We still dont have a number 1 goalie.

Totally agree. Main point im trying to make is jmac is the backup, as much as they say he was in the mix, he will play maybe 30 games this year behind one or both of Berra and Ramo. Hes just simply not a #1, carry the load guy..

[jjgallow]

Lol,, you make it look like I said Joey had the better game. He looked good, but ramo had flashes of brilliance. I think once he has a 10 game segment to review and the nerves have gone away, we will know better.

 

Lol,,, you made it look like Taylor was still here  

 

I would agree with you on the flashes of brilliance....Burke has already made it clear what he thinks of flashes of brilliance, and that's with 20-year olds.   27 year olds....

 

But yes, we'll know a lot more 10 games in.

[Carty]

In an ideal world If it were possible to mesh some of both Ramo's and Berra's skill sets, we could have one heck of a #1 goalie...

 

At this point in time I would still give Ramo the edge for becoming the starter though...

[C_worthy]

MacDonald isn't a starter. And I didn't think he was great last night - terrible rebound on the first goal and too slow getting across on Asimov's goal.

Having said that, he was what he is - a good, solid backup who gives them stability at the position and a chance to win.

If Ramo can't seize the job (I think he will), then Berra will get a chance. If he can't ether, I would think that the Flames would look externally.

[s4xon]

I am pulling for Ramo.  I really like his compete and he interviews well.  He looks like a confident guy.  If he can develop into the next Kipper,

 

However, I believe the combo of goaltending and D will be the reason why the Flames remain in the bottom 10 in the league for the season.

[jjgallow]

However, I believe the combo of goaltending and D will be the reason why the Flames remain in the bottom 10 in the league for the season.

 

And the forwards.  Don't forget the forwards, lol.

 

We'll have the last laugh.  Eventually.

[travel_dude]

And the forwards.  Don't forget the forwards, lol.

 

We'll have the last laugh.  Eventually.

If we regularly score 3 or 4 goals per night, but give up 35-39 shots, I think that says more about the D. 

[jjgallow]

True.   Realistically, we just played one some  horrible team in terms of defense as well, so let's not get too excited about those first 8 goals.

 

We need to be better all around, in every position, except some of the support roles.

 

I'll agree that our defense and goaltending will keep us in the bottom 10, and it should take a higher priority.

 

But only a slightly higher priority.   The closest we have is left wing, but much of that relies on Cammi who is aging and may not stay here the whole seaason.

 

Even if it weren't for defense, our forwards would keep us in the bottom 15.   There's not a single strength on this team that would get us in the playoffs. 

 

Yet, anyway.  

 

Better things are coming.

[geos]

True.   Realistically, we just played some horrible teams in terms of defense as well, so let's not get too excited about those first 8 goals.

 

Columbus was one of the best defensive teams in the league last year and their goalie won the Vezina, so.... yeah.

[jjgallow]

edited to One horrible team...  

[Wreckening]

So MacDonald is getting the start against the Habs on Wednesday.  I would have thought Hartley would have gone back with Ramo to get him some starts.  What does this say about our goaltending?  Has Ramo been struggling in practices?  Kind of makes you wonder because MacDonald hasn't been that sharp either. 

[travel_dude]

So MacDonald is getting the start against the Habs on Wednesday.  I would have thought Hartley would have gone back with Ramo to get him some starts.  What does this say about our goaltending?  Has Ramo been struggling in practices?  Kind of makes you wonder because MacDonald hasn't been that sharp either. 

Always thinking there exists a conspiracy theory....

 

Perhaps they are showcasing JoeyMac with the idea of trading him???  Or maybe they want to show some value for when they waive him??? 

 

Non-conspiracy theory suggests that they feel his style of play matches the type of offense Montreal has.  I think, win or lose, they have to start Ramo on a nightly basis, not win and you're in.  We are rebuilding, so why bother with someone that won't be here next year?

[Redslinger]

It could just be that since Ramo was Habs property until recently, that they have a pretty good book on him.  Mind you, MacDonald has been in the league long enough that the book is out on him too:  shoot at the net! 

[Zoller]

To be honest I think Jmac has earned it. I know he let in 5 goals on 23 shots or whatever it was but 3 of those goals were from mistakes made by the team and they left him out to dry. He also made some very timely saves to keep it tied and a big part of goaltending is making timely saves.

 

I would agree, however, that it would be best if Ramo got more starts. We know what we have with Jmac, he's is a career backup goalie. Ramo has the potential to be a starter in this league, or he has the potential to end up back in Russia after his contract expires. The fact is we don't yet know what we have with him.

 

Now while I agree with Hartley and the coaching staff that Jmac has earned THIS start, I would hope that they will work Ramo into some more games on a consistent basis. Hopefully he performs well enough to earn himself even more starts.