Realistic (and unrealistic) Trades - 2024 Edition

[cberg]

3 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Know any top level C's available?  You build the team when players are available in the draft or in trade or sometimes passed over in FA.

There are a few, eg Mercer, but yes, I agree.

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, cberg said:

There are a few, eg Mercer, but yes, I agree.

 

For perspective, I would give up a 1st for a player like Mercer.

A 2nd for a goalie like Askaraov.

Neither of them was available when we drafted.

Askarov may be getting a bum rap.

There was some aspectes of his game that has tailed off.

So, it's a risk to overpay while someone is a bit down.

But the reward could be a #1 goalie for the next 10 years.

[conundrumed]

3 hours ago, cberg said:

There are a few, eg Mercer, but yes, I agree.

Mercer really isn't available without a vast overpay. We can't offer sheet because we don't have our own 2025 1st. So unless we're parting with our '26 1st and a high-end prospect, there's no chance.

He's not worth it, imo.

We don't want to rush our rebuild on one hand, yet want to go after Mercer on the other hand.

As for Askarov, Trotz isn't going to play around with anyone with no bargaining power. Or he'll suck a big overpay out of a team like Chicago.

Askarov can complain all he wants, but he holds zero cards outside of going back to Russia.

Reminds me of Drouin. Whine away, GM really doesn't care. Then a team thinks, "Awesome, we can get him for Sergachev". That went well. Drouin carries on with the princess act, Sergachev becomes a dominant shutdown defender.

Yzerman took some heat from the media during Drouin's escapades. In the end, Yzerman just taught them how this stuff actually works. Whining your way out rarely works. We've had our own princesses in the past. Baertschi comes to mind. Then the media turns it into something else, because they don't know much, but need to 'edumacate' readers/listeners.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

"But, but, Askarov might be a star". Drouin might be a star, was also the battle cry. "Baertschi just needs better opportunity". Yeah. Sure. Whatever.

[MP5029]

4 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Mercer really isn't available without a vast overpay. We can't offer sheet because we don't have our own 2025 1st. So unless we're parting with our '26 1st and a high-end prospect, there's no chance.

He's not worth it, imo.

We don't want to rush our rebuild on one hand, yet want to go after Mercer on the other hand.

As for Askarov, Trotz isn't going to play around with anyone with no bargaining power. Or he'll suck a big overpay out of a team like Chicago.

Askarov can complain all he wants, but he holds zero cards outside of going back to Russia.

Reminds me of Drouin. Whine away, GM really doesn't care. Then a team thinks, "Awesome, we can get him for Sergachev". That went well. Drouin carries on with the princess act, Sergachev becomes a dominant shutdown defender.

Yzerman took some heat from the media during Drouin's escapades. In the end, Yzerman just taught them how this stuff actually works. Whining your way out rarely works. We've had our own princesses in the past. Baertschi comes to mind. Then the media turns it into something else, because they don't know much, but need to 'edumacate' readers/listeners.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

"But, but, Askarov might be a star". Drouin might be a star, was also the battle cry. "Baertschi just needs better opportunity". Yeah. Sure. Whatever.

I think the only 2 reasons many of us like the idea of Mercer are:

 

1. we all wanted him to be drafted by Cgy

2. Cgy has had huge issues getting a shot at a Ctr, our best drafted Ctr in recent years was Bennett and Cgy pooched his development…granted it was a long shot that he’d be a #1 but a very strong #2 could he have been. 
 

these are probably why if Mercer is an option it’s a guaranteed way to get an NHL Ctr 

[phoenix66]

On 8/19/2024 at 1:59 PM, robrob74 said:

Flames probably don't have a Jordan Harris, but would Laine and a 2nd have been worth that cost for the Flames? 
 

maybe Miromanov?

They actually had this discussion on the FAN.. Jason Bukkula (sp?). Said our comparable was Etienne Morin 

[conundrumed]

2 hours ago, MP5029 said:

I think the only 2 reasons many of us like the idea of Mercer are:

 

1. we all wanted him to be drafted by Cgy

2. Cgy has had huge issues getting a shot at a Ctr, our best drafted Ctr in recent years was Bennett and Cgy pooched his development…granted it was a long shot that he’d be a #1 but a very strong #2 could he have been. 
 

these are probably why if Mercer is an option it’s a guaranteed way to get an NHL Ctr 

We have time. Mercer isn't trending as a 1C either. May as well offer sheet Jusso Parssinen. Might get him for a 3rd (more likely 2nd). Better chance of a successful bid.

[The_People1]

3 hours ago, MP5029 said:

I think the only 2 reasons many of us like the idea of Mercer are:

 

1. we all wanted him to be drafted by Cgy

2. Cgy has had huge issues getting a shot at a Ctr, our best drafted Ctr in recent years was Bennett and Cgy pooched his development…granted it was a long shot that he’d be a #1 but a very strong #2 could he have been. 
 

these are probably why if Mercer is an option it’s a guaranteed way to get an NHL Ctr 

 

I think Mercer is getting overrated by some here.  He's trending as a Lindholm-lite.  Mercer isn't a number 1, 2, and on most nights, not even a #3 Center on NJD.  Just plays RW half the season.  Yes, young and still developing so there's a long runway to get better from here.

 

But, we're looking for a #1 Center... A top 15 in the NHL one day.  This isn't Mercer.

[travel_dude]

8 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Mercer really isn't available without a vast overpay. We can't offer sheet because we don't have our own 2025 1st. So unless we're parting with our '26 1st and a high-end prospect, there's no chance.

He's not worth it, imo.

We don't want to rush our rebuild on one hand, yet want to go after Mercer on the other hand.

As for Askarov, Trotz isn't going to play around with anyone with no bargaining power. Or he'll suck a big overpay out of a team like Chicago.

Askarov can complain all he wants, but he holds zero cards outside of going back to Russia.

Reminds me of Drouin. Whine away, GM really doesn't care. Then a team thinks, "Awesome, we can get him for Sergachev". That went well. Drouin carries on with the princess act, Sergachev becomes a dominant shutdown defender.

Yzerman took some heat from the media during Drouin's escapades. In the end, Yzerman just taught them how this stuff actually works. Whining your way out rarely works. We've had our own princesses in the past. Baertschi comes to mind. Then the media turns it into something else, because they don't know much, but need to 'edumacate' readers/listeners.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

"But, but, Askarov might be a star". Drouin might be a star, was also the battle cry. "Baertschi just needs better opportunity". Yeah. Sure. Whatever.

 

Is that you Jethro?

[cross16]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

We have time. Mercer isn't trending as a 1C either. May as well offer sheet Jusso Parssinen. Might get him for a 3rd (more likely 2nd). Better chance of a successful bid.

 

He's actually more of a winger anyway. not sure why he keeps coming up in a high end center discussion or a center discussion period. 

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

I think Mercer is getting overrated by some here.  He's trending as a Lindholm-lite.  Mercer isn't a number 1, 2, and on most nights, not even a #3 Center on NJD.  Just plays RW half the season.  Yes, young and still developing so there's a long runway to get better from here.

 

But, we're looking for a #1 Center... A top 15 in the NHL one day.  This isn't Mercer.

 

On top of Mercer not being a Center, I don't know that it is worth the effort looking for a center in the market.

 

Unless we have an Iginla-like prospect that we're cool with giving up for a Niewendyk-type vet.     And the 1st-line center prospects all have sky-high valuations.

 

The path is clear:  These next few drafts are packed with high-end centers.

Step 1:   Don't artificially raise our regular season standings

Step 2:  Keep doing things to acquire high draft picks
Step 3:  Keep bolstering the scouting staff (internationally in particular)
Step 4:  Finish building the arena lol.

 

Keep doing those things and the Center will come.      The only expensive prospect acquisition I'd be thinking appropriate right now would be another Dustin Wolf, or maybe another very young high-end defenceman.

[redfire11]

What I see from most posts about needing and getting a #1 center is;

- We have to draft a known center because at 17 or 18 tears old they are unable to be trained as a center from a winger position.

- A high iq winger cannot be transitioned to the center position.

- The position of center has to be taught from an early age.

 

My prospective is you draft high iq hockey players and you train them ALL on the center position and let competition determine the end result.   

[sak22]

 

 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, sak22 said:

 

 

 

Sucks being a small market Canadian team.

 

At least Yager has similar potential and the Jets got something decent back in return.

[sak22]

6 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Sucks being a small market Canadian team.

 

At least Yager has similar potential and the Jets got something decent back in return.

I don't think this was a market issues as much as a development/contract issue.  I believe it is closer to the Gautier situation in Philly where they wanted to sign at the end of the year and burn a year on the ELC but the teams didn't want to, I think in McGroarty's case what I've heard he wanted more assurances he would play right away and the team wouldn't guarantee that.

[The_People1]

3 hours ago, sak22 said:

I don't think this was a market issues as much as a development/contract issue.  I believe it is closer to the Gautier situation in Philly where they wanted to sign at the end of the year and burn a year on the ELC but the teams didn't want to, I think in McGroarty's case what I've heard he wanted more assurances he would play right away and the team wouldn't guarantee that.

 

Ah I see.  Just a whiner.  In any event, hopefully Yager would play for the Jets.

[robrob74]

12 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

They actually had this discussion on the FAN.. Jason Bukkula (sp?). Said our comparable was Etienne Morin 

 

 

Glad we didn't really go for it. Although, if we could turn around and gain a first at the TDL, it might have been a good add. 

[Thebrewcrew]

I like Yager a lot. 

 

Jets did really well here. Yager is a Sasker, so there's no worry for WPG about him being a flight risk, down the line. Not to mention he's an excellent prospect.

[jjgallow]

5 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I like Yager a lot. 

 

Jets did really well here. Yager is a Sasker, so there's no worry for WPG about him being a flight risk, down the line. Not to mention he's an excellent prospect.

 

They did do well.  In so many ways.

 

1.  They drafted a US College kid because they felt he was BPA, and they didn't flinch

 

2.  When he got weird, they got full value back and they didn't waste time about it  (this is a sore spot for us in the past obviously)

 

3.  Yager's great.

 

I like Winnipeg and I think it's hard not to.

[MP5029]

8 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I like Yager a lot. 

 

Jets did really well here. Yager is a Sasker, so there's no worry for WPG about him being a flight risk, down the line. Not to mention he's an excellent prospect.

100% agreed, Yager is one many of us flames fans were hoping to get in that draft 

[conundrumed]

McGroarty is currently the better prospect. I know there is nothing in his character that is concerning. Although the, "guarantee me ice time" thing was given, I'm more of the opinion that he didn't want to go to Winnipeg to be an AHLer.

Chevy did a great job getting a solid prospect in return.

I wonder if Detroit made an offer?

I'd say our equivalent would be Coronato, but I'd want to know if Detroit had an offer on the table. All of McGroarty's hockeying is Detroit-based.

I'm not sure if he didn't want to play in Canada in general, or Winnipeg specifically. I realize I'm going against what's being reported as the reason.

His skating isn't great, but he's more of a bull-in-a-china-shop player. Similar to Ryan O'Reilly.

ex U of M, I can't rail hard against him.

I've spent a fair bit of time in the 'peg and really enjoyed it. I can also see how it could be a culture shock to a kid that is used to metropolis', close to other metropolis'.

He's likely fine with Wilkes-Barre/Scranton.

Time will tell.

[travel_dude]

4 hours ago, conundrumed said:

McGroarty is currently the better prospect. I know there is nothing in his character that is concerning. Although the, "guarantee me ice time" thing was given, I'm more of the opinion that he didn't want to go to Winnipeg to be an AHLer.

Chevy did a great job getting a solid prospect in return.

I wonder if Detroit made an offer?

I'd say our equivalent would be Coronato, but I'd want to know if Detroit had an offer on the table. All of McGroarty's hockeying is Detroit-based.

I'm not sure if he didn't want to play in Canada in general, or Winnipeg specifically. I realize I'm going against what's being reported as the reason.

His skating isn't great, but he's more of a bull-in-a-china-shop player. Similar to Ryan O'Reilly.

ex U of M, I can't rail hard against him.

I've spent a fair bit of time in the 'peg and really enjoyed it. I can also see how it could be a culture shock to a kid that is used to metropolis', close to other metropolis'.

He's likely fine with Wilkes-Barre/Scranton.

Time will tell.

 

If the idea was guaranteed ice, why would he need to be okay with WB/S.  Anyway, I can see the issue with going to Winnipeg.  Long winter bus rides.  Unlikely to get to the team anytime soon.  

 

I can see ruling out MTL and perhaps Ottawa, which are cities you have to love or you hate.  I'm okay with visiting MTL, but might have an issue living there.  VAN used to remind me of California North.  Not so much now.  TOR would be close to living in NYC or CHI in the proximity to large downtowns.  CGY would be a lot more attractive to someone that likes outdoorsy stuff.  EDM, still haven't figured out the attraction.

[redfire11]

21 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

If the idea was guaranteed ice, why would he need to be okay with WB/S.  Anyway, I can see the issue with going to Winnipeg.  Long winter bus rides.  Unlikely to get to the team anytime soon.  

 

I can see ruling out MTL and perhaps Ottawa, which are cities you have to love or you hate.  I'm okay with visiting MTL, but might have an issue living there.  VAN used to remind me of California North.  Not so much now.  TOR would be close to living in NYC or CHI in the proximity to large downtowns.  CGY would be a lot more attractive to someone that likes outdoorsy stuff.  EDM, still haven't figured out the attraction.

In the 2023 draft I was hoping for Branden Yager or Colby Barlow as it turns out Winnipeg got both. 

[cross16]

This is a really good return for Nashville. Not a price I would have wanted the Flames to pay

 

SJ paid a lot but I get this move for them too. 

 

 

[rickross]

5 minutes ago, cross16 said:

This is a really good return for Nashville. Not a price I would have wanted the Flames to pay

 

SJ paid a lot but I get this move for them too. 

 

 

Gotta give Barry Trotz his props, he’s an underrated GM right now. He’s loaded the team up so they’ll be competitive for the next couple years, not to mention he’s stacked three 1st Rd picks in 2025. Smart asset management going on in Nashville. 
 

I do still think Conny will land us some more high picks if we start clearing cap for teams come TDL this year, we just need to land some elite picks for once. Right now we have some very good prospects but none that u can consider elite players.  Next two drafts will be key to our future!

[robrob74]

4 minutes ago, rickross said:

Gotta give Barry Trotz his props, he’s an underrated GM right now. He’s loaded the team up so they’ll be competitive for the next couple years, not to mention he’s stacked three 1st Rd picks in 2025. Smart asset management going on in Nashville. 
 

I do still think Conny will land us some more high picks if we start clearing cap for teams come TDL this year, we just need to land some elite picks for once. Right now we have some very good prospects but none that u can consider elite players.  Next two drafts will be key to our future!

could there be any appetite for taking the 1st rounder back from Montreal in taking on their Josh Anderson problem? 5.5 is a lot to pay, but they may want to get rid of him due to the Laine deal. 
 

maybe a middling prospect too? It's a lot of money to ask owners to take on. How long has he used LTIR in the past? Is LTIR paid by insurance? Just thinking ways around mitigating owners' obligations.