Realistic (and unrealistic) Trades - 2024 Edition

[phoenix66]

6 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

Personally, regardless of talent keep that personality as far from the dressing room as possible.

I like to keep a bit of an open mind when the line is a bit fuzzy between what is the player and what is the agent / family.. 

Just like I'd bet money the issue with Kyllington was nearly all agent based ..

Money and term isn the issue ..hes looking at the same elc all players get ..

Good chance he saw too much depth in Winnipeg so his odds of getting quality time was low..  here he's have the opportunity to be the player he thinks he can be all through the lineup..

But no team will guarantee..

[robrob74]

9 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

Personally, regardless of talent keep that personality as far from the dressing room as possible.

 

ya, I'd never want PLD, Duchesne, Laine, or players that have that superiority complex; which this guy seems like he does. 
 

 

[phoenix66]

2 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

ya, I'd never want PLD, Duchesne, Laine, or players that have that superiority complex; which this guy seems like he does. 
 

 

I'd have no issue with Laine ..when he was beaking off he was backing It up .. Columbus was just the worst place he could have gone 

[robrob74]

Just now, phoenix66 said:

I like to keep a bit of an open mind when the line is a bit fuzzy between what is the player and what is the agent / family.. 

Just like I'd bet money the issue with Kyllington was nearly all agent based ..

Money and term isn the issue ..hes looking at the same elc all players get ..

Good chance he saw too much depth in Winnipeg so his odds of getting quality time was low..  here he's have the opportunity to be the player he thinks he can be all through the lineup..

But no team will guarantee..

Term might be. I don't know how the contract payout would have played out with the Mental Health Leave. But if I'm the Flames or any other team, I would only offer 2.5 or 3M over two years in case he doesn't play. 
 

He's kind of in a show-me contract year. Sure he has the skills to pay, but he still needs to show he can put a full year in or two. He's played how many NHL games, one full season.

 

Maybe he was fine not playing the years before his breakout season. 

[phoenix66]

6 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

Term might be. I don't know how the contract payout would have played out with the Mental Health Leave. But if I'm the Flames or any other team, I would only offer 2.5 or 3M over two years in case he doesn't play. 
 

He's kind of in a show-me contract year. Sure he has the skills to pay, but he still needs to show he can put a full year in or two. He's played how many NHL games, one full season.

 

Maybe he was fine not playing the years before his breakout season. 

I was referring to Rutger... 

 

Kyllington was def term and money .. the player I believe was open to being back on a show me deal.. agent likely sold him on he can get him term and $

 

Problem is ..cast aside the feelgood story and you have a player who was on his 2nd show me deal already.. broke out with the d whisperer .. played 30 games on a 2 yewr deal and never lookedike the same player that played with Tanev ...how much of that was rust? What is he without Tanev ? 

 

No team will sign him now as a top 4 dman..or he'd be signed by now ..here he can prove he is..will get the minutes.. and write his own ticket on his next deal 

 

This last deal was supposed to be the one where he proved he didn't need Tanev to be a top 4.. and he played 30 games at the end of it .... Harsh take yes but it's real life 

[cberg]

51 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

I don't see how any team would ever agree to demands like these ..ice time etc ..

Truth is a team like the flames should appeal to him simply because all these jobs are open .

Agree to let him compete for the top line role.. play on pp1.. etc.. that's fine ..but if he doesn't cut it he's gonna get moved back.. no team or coach is gonna agree to keep rolling him out if he's ineffective 

Yes there are more opportunities here, but a guaranteed spot would undercut other prospects and the culture being developed.  Conroy needs to steer clear for this reason and the likely cost.  Even if he ultimately becomes a top6 player, we need game-breakers and stars/superstars, which he isn’t.

[robrob74]

4 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

I was referring to Rutger... 

 

Kyllington was def term and money .. the player I believe was open to being back on a show me deal.. agent likely sold him on he can get him term and $

 

Problem is ..cast aside the feelgood story and you have a player who was on his 2nd show me deal already.. broke out with the d whisperer .. played 30 games on a 2 yewr deal and never lookedike the same player that played with Tanev ...how much of that was rust? What is he without Tanev ? 

 

No team will sign him now as a top 4 dman..or he'd be signed by now ..here he can prove he is..will get the minutes.. and write his own ticket on his next deal 

Pat on the Fan said there was another team interested in signing him in the Free Agent Frenzy, but it was if the player they were going to sign was not going to sign with them, so my guess is they got the other player and somewhere in their the feelings got mixed up. 
 

I heard Conroy say this week that it's not looking like there's a fit for him anymore, the door is closing... 

[phoenix66]

1 minute ago, cberg said:

Yes there are more opportunities here, but a guaranteed spot would undercut other prospects and the culture being developed.  Conroy needs to steer clear for this reason and the likely cost.  Even if he ultimately becomes a top6 player, we need game-breakers and stars/superstars, which he isn’t.

This is what I'm saying.. we can give him the opportunity.  It starts with preseason.. play him on the top line ...play him on powerplay.. IF he makes the team and doesn't nail that spot down..give him looks if he accepts and rows well at the role he's given .

No team will guarantee this .but many other teams can't even give him that opportunity.. top line in Winnipeg is full..as is likely the top PP.. 

 

If these are the asks. Then I'd be willing to bet it's the agent and family asking them .. if the kid is as good as he thinks he is I'm sure he'd personally have no problem accepting the challenge ..

And at the end of the day you can't even contractually guarantee these things.. so even more likely the narrative is being overblown and he declined a trade where those opportunities don't exist .  They all exist here 

[tmac70]

14 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

I doubt they would, it would make a huge hole, but maybe Weegar or Andersson for Kappo? I'd prefer Andersson. Would Kadri do it? Some here seem to think Kappo's stock is low. Thought I heard NyR want at least a first?
 

We would need to re-sign Kylington or get another D.

 

I thought a NYR might need a replacement for Trouba.

 

edit:

 

I just looked at his point totals, ya he's only got 19 in 61 games. That is low. I can see why some say Pujujarvi...

I dunno, I'd trade them Pelletier for him. I'm a bit worried Pelletier is trending down.

 

 

I don't think Weegar is in play Anderson is a possibility but he is a huge overpayment for Kakko. Top 3 men for an unproven top prospect, Think more along the lines of what we got for Bennett in a trade as the value for Kappo. Anderson should at least bring more than Hanifin I would think. NY will value high as he was a top pick but we have seen many times that top picks may not work. 

[The_People1]

Just now, tmac70 said:

I don't think Weegar is in play Anderson is a possibility but he is a huge overpayment for Kakko. Top 3 men for an unproven top prospect, Think more along the lines of what we got for Bennett in a trade as the value for Kappo. Anderson should at least bring more than Hanifin I would think. NY will value high as he was a top pick but we have seen many times that top picks may not work. 

 

Agreed, I also don't think Weegar is in play.   He has full NMC.  Only place he might waive to go to is Ottawa because that's home for him.

 

Also, Bennett basically got us nothing.  Puljujarvi basically got nothing for EDM.  Kakko is in that general area.  

[phoenix66]

1 minute ago, tmac70 said:

I don't think Weegar is in play Anderson is a possibility but he is a huge overpayment for Kakko. Top 3 men for an unproven top prospect, Think more along the lines of what we got for Bennett in a trade as the value for Kappo. Anderson should at least bring more than Hanifin I would think. NY will value high as he was a top pick but we have seen many times that top picks may not work. 

Won't happen obviously....but if they could swing a deal for kappo and Fox that would just be funny 

 

Ya Anderson doesnt even enter the conversation with Kappo.. maybe a low first and a current tweener prospect like Kuznetsov 

[robrob74]

3 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

I don't think Weegar is in play Anderson is a possibility but he is a huge overpayment for Kakko. Top 3 men for an unproven top prospect, Think more along the lines of what we got for Bennett in a trade as the value for Kappo. Anderson should at least bring more than Hanifin I would think. NY will value high as he was a top pick but we have seen many times that top picks may not work. 

 

yup!! I went back and looked and one of Kappo's best seasons was only about 5 points better than Bennett's best as a Flame. The numbers look the same otherwise. 
 

maybe a 2nd or Pelletier. 

[travel_dude]

49 minutes ago, cberg said:

Ok, we shall see, teams don’t need to be Cap-compliant till October so still a while to go.  I’m assuming all arbitration issues will be resolved soon.

Prices go up when you get to October and teams stuck are likely to waive players that they need just to get there.  It's one thing for a team very close, especially if they have RFA's that could be held off to sign.  Not ideal, but an option.  

[phoenix66]

3 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

yup!! I went back and looked and one of Kappo's best seasons was only about 5 points better than Bennett's best as a Flame. The numbers look the same otherwise. 
 

maybe a 2nd or Pelletier. 

To be fair the prospect we got for him , Emil Heineman is looking to be a solid prospect in Montreal now ..good chance he makes the team this year 

[The_People1]

2 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Prices go up when you get to October and teams stuck are likely to waive players that they need just to get there.  It's one thing for a team very close, especially if they have RFA's that could be held off to sign.  Not ideal, but an option.  

 

Trues.  BT gave up a 1st to dump Monahan on the last week before training camp started.  Conroy has to be patient with weaponizing cap space.  A couple months to go.

[phoenix66]

Just now, The_People1 said:

 

Trues.  BT gave up a 1st to dump Monahan on the last week before training camp started.  Conroy has to be patient with weaponizing cap space.  A couple months to go.

Also you can only ever be 10% over .. if I recall the Kadri deal would have put us over that ..so the Monahan trade was a bit under duress ..  the Kadri was in the drawer almost a month before ..he couldnt find a way to clear space any other way until then ..

[tmac70]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Trues.  BT gave up a 1st to dump Monahan on the last week before training camp started.  Conroy has to be patient with weaponizing cap space.  A couple months to go.

There was an article about the Trevling era in CGY, didn't shed a positive light on it. 

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

Also you can only ever be 10% over .. if I recall the Kadri deal would have put us over that ..so the Monahan trade was a bit under duress ..  the Kadri was in the drawer almost a month before ..he couldnt find a way to clear space any other way until then ..

Like it or not, BT made the deal long before the season started because he felt teams would penalize us for having a need to move a player.  If that was the best he could do, then blech.  If teams have similar players they need to move, then we should expect the same.  Maybe not BT dumb but close.  I'm not sumping on BT, just pointing out it was a costly move of a player with gas left.  

 

Teams will be looking to dump now and as we get close to the season.  Just parking guys in the AHL using waivers isn't enough.  Waiting for an arbitration award to open up the 2nd window won't be a wise strategy.  Mostly because they will settle before the date and won't get the buyout option.

 

Weaponized cap space shouldn't be a pea shooter.  Full nuke option.

[phoenix66]

30 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Like it or not, BT made the deal long before the season started because he felt teams would penalize us for having a need to move a player.  If that was the best he could do, then blech.  If teams have similar players they need to move, then we should expect the same.  Maybe not BT dumb but close.  I'm not sumping on BT, just pointing out it was a costly move of a player with gas left.  

 

Teams will be looking to dump now and as we get close to the season.  Just parking guys in the AHL using waivers isn't enough.  Waiting for an arbitration award to open up the 2nd window won't be a wise strategy.  Mostly because they will settle before the date and won't get the buyout option.

 

Weaponized cap space shouldn't be a pea shooter.  Full nuke option.

Not defending BT but people have short memories . He was a walking IR tag.. there was serious conversation about his career being possibly over .. likely why he was so hard to move .. and there was no guarantee of being able to put him right onto IR into the season .. 

His recovery has been nothing short of amazing .. and nobody feels happier for him than me ..but at the time it made a ton of sense .. 

[jjgallow]

 

[sak22]

4 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Agreed, I also don't think Weegar is in play.   He has full NMC.  Only place he might waive to go to is Ottawa because that's home for him.

 

Also, Bennett basically got us nothing.  Puljujarvi basically got nothing for EDM.  Kakko is in that general area.  

I wouldn’t say Ottawa is the list, his uncle played many years for the Habs so Montreal would be, think watching his old team win a cup any team with a good chance to win should be something he’d consider.  Not thinking he’s on the move or anything but don’t think he’s a hometown only guy.

[travel_dude]

7 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

Not defending BT but people have short memories . He was a walking IR tag.. there was serious conversation about his career being possibly over .. likely why he was so hard to move .. and there was no guarantee of being able to put him right onto IR into the season .. 

His recovery has been nothing short of amazing .. and nobody feels happier for him than me ..but at the time it made a ton of sense .. 

 

I was going to respond but you are arguing two different things; career over or not over.

Oh well, here goes.

 

There was no ton of sense, just a bit of choice:

- Monahan recovering from injury much quicker than previous hip surgery, resumed skaing in June

- Gaudreau walked

- Tkachuk traded long before Monahan traded

- Almost a month before trade and Kadri signing in August

 

Was it a solution?  Yup.

Only one or best one?

MTL seemed to get several 1st rounders out of a zero cost trade.

He was going to be a risk with his history, but it was one year.

 

[Heartbreaker]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

I was going to respond but you are arguing two different things; career over or not over.

Oh well, here goes.

 

There was no ton of sense, just a bit of choice:

- Monahan recovering from injury much quicker than previous hip surgery, resumed skaing in June

- Gaudreau walked

- Tkachuk traded long before Monahan traded

- Almost a month before trade and Kadri signing in August

 

Was it a solution?  Yup.

Only one or best one?

MTL seemed to get several 1st rounders out of a zero cost trade.

He was going to be a risk with his history, but it was one year.

 

 

Agreed.

 

I hated that trade from the beginning. I also made some comment about how they'd rue the day that they drove a Brinks truck to Nazem Kadri. It's not that I don't like the player. It's that it wasn't the right move.

 

Love.

[MP5029]

So was reading another hockey article that rumors Cgy has strong interest in Buffalo’s P.Krybs…

 

23yo Ctr 6’ ish…playmaker and a Cgy kid.

 

on the surface seems like a good fit, however, RFA so he could be costly to acquire and sign…

 

thoughts on cost to acquire, fit in Cgy, resigning?

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

2 hours ago, MP5029 said:

So was reading another hockey article that rumors Cgy has strong interest in Buffalo’s P.Krybs…

 

23yo Ctr 6’ ish…playmaker and a Cgy kid.

 

on the surface seems like a good fit, however, RFA so he could be costly to acquire and sign…

 

thoughts on cost to acquire, fit in Cgy, resigning?

With the acquisition of McLeod from the Oil Krebs prob slots in at 4th in depth at C. Hasnt really put up 17OA numbers so far so cost shouldnt be too out there. Maybe given a chance on something higher than the third line may reap rewards but I'm also in favor of auditioning  any of the current crop that may transition into a decent C given the chance.