2023 Calgary Flames NHL Draft

[jjgallow]

2 minutes ago, zima said:

Why in Hell would we draft any russian right now that is in Russia they are blocked from leaving there coun try right now and perhaps forever

 

 

Because every team is thinking this.   So they are at a discount.

 

These players are not going to have an impact for 5 years.    Ukraine/Russian war isn't likely to go on that long.   I mean if it does we've got bigger problems than hockey.

[zima]

Just now, jjgallow said:

 

Because every team is thinking this.   So they are at a discount.

 

These players are not going to have an impact for 5 years.    Ukraine/Russian war isn't likely to go on that long.   I mean if it does we've got bigger problems than hockey.

Thats my thought once it gets worse for Russia I will bet the Chinese will be coming across in droves and then China will also attack Taiwan at the same time it's over as we know it.  

[jjgallow]

1 minute ago, zima said:

Thats my thought once it gets worse for Russia I will bet the Chinese will be coming across in droves and then China will also attack Taiwan at the same time it's over as we know it.  

 

Yeah so if that happens we're all moving to the Yukon and it ain't gonna matter.

 

You have to make some assumptions when drafting, like, for instance, that the world isn't going to end.

 

And maybe one day we'll be wrong on that lol but whaddya do.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Last time a Canadian team with Russian(s) won a cup?

Look, I am all for unscouted gems, but if we aren't scouting them, how do we find the gems?  We can't all travel to Russia and talk with parents and coaches.  

the Canucks seem to do well with Russians. I think it's about building a culture for them to feel welcomed. Whatever good will we had with Makarov has gone a waste side. 
 

imagine if the flames had Kuzmenko? Why can't the flames sign these guys? We got Cervenka. I'm happy with Duehr but these are the lesser lights of those kinds of free agent deals that we would like. 
 

 

[zima]

1 hour ago, zima said:

Thats my thought once it gets worse for Russia I will bet the Chinese will be coming across in droves and then China will also attack Taiwan at the same time it's over as we know it.  

Seems to me we haven't done very well with Russia to this point we need to get some top players we are sure will sign with us and not NCAA player's I know we got got Coronato but he was not a top player but a first none the less which I know I had a couple conversations about I'm not a fan of college players only because I'm not a secure person when it comes to how ppl think and yes I am proof of that .

[travel_dude]

45 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

the Canucks seem to do well with Russians. I think it's about building a culture for them to feel welcomed. Whatever good will we had with Makarov has gone a waste side. 
 

imagine if the flames had Kuzmenko? Why can't the flames sign these guys? We got Cervenka. I'm happy with Duehr but these are the lesser lights of those kinds of free agent deals that we would like. 
 

 

 

Oh, a lot of teams seem to know how to scout them.

Yeah, I was bummed when the Nucks were in the Kuz sweeps from the beginning.

Not like we could use a sniper for this team.

[jjgallow]

6 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Oh, a lot of teams seem to know how to scout them.

Yeah, I was bummed when the Nucks were in the Kuz sweeps from the beginning.

Not like we could use a sniper for this team.

 

 

Yeah, how do they do it I wonder.

 

https://www.nhl.com/canucks/team/scouting-staff

 

Probably nothing to do with Vancouver actually having Russian scouts and scouts from countries that are hockey-relevant other than the WHL.

 

https://www.nhl.com/flames/team/hockey-operations

 

Can you imagine plotting those scouts on a map lol

 

 

I mean let's be real, Russia hasn't turned off its phone lines.   You wanna do some interviews with parents/coaches, you can.

That is, if you have Anyone at all in your organisation who actually speaks Russian lol

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, jjgallow said:

 

 

Yeah, how do they do it I wonder.

 

https://www.nhl.com/canucks/team/scouting-staff

 

Probably nothing to do with Vancouver actually having Russian scouts and scouts from countries that are hockey-relevant other than the WHL.

 

https://www.nhl.com/flames/team/hockey-operations

 

Can you imagine plotting those scouts on a map lol

 

 

I mean let's be real, Russia hasn't turned off its phone lines.   You wanna do some interviews with parents/coaches, you can.

That is, if you have Anyone at all in your organisation who actually speaks Russian lol

 

 

VAN signing the Kuz.  What was the reason he considered VAN?

Nothing to do with scouting.

He was a top free agent available for the first time and not committed to the KHL.

He was a teammate of Podkolzin.

And the Nucks were able to guarantee a NHL roster spot.

Could we last summer?

 

[jjgallow]

14 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

 

VAN signing the Kuz.  What was the reason he considered VAN?

Nothing to do with scouting.

He was a top free agent available for the first time and not committed to the KHL.

He was a teammate of Podkolzin.

And the Nucks were able to guarantee a NHL roster spot.

Could we last summer?

 

 

How can you say it had nothing to do with scouting?   Of course it did lol, BT probably wasn't even aware of him, how could he be?   And how would they even communicate?

 

Podkolzin there because of their scouting.

 

Scouting is the reason Vancouver could guarantee a roster spot, and we couldn't.

 

...

 

If you literally have no Russians in your organization it's going to be hard to attract more top Russian talent.   I really don't feel like this is something that should have to be said but I'm saying it.

 

Russia is obviously a major part of hockey, probably the #2 most important regional/cultural part of hockey in the world.

 

#2.

 

You know it's bad, we all know it's bad, that the Flames are cut off from that at the scouting/management/player level.

 

Like, we talked the other day about not drafting a kid who showed signs of racism.   But how do we really do that when ownership runs the whole organisation with the same mindset?    By literally ignoring the #2 hockey region?

 

BTW Vancouver is not even the standard.

 

Panarin/Chicago:   Lotsa Russians on staff:   https://www.nhl.com/blackhawks/team/frontoffice

 

Detroit and all those cups:   Bucket loads of Russian scouts and scouts all over the world.
                                                   https://www.nhl.com/redwings/team/hockey-operations

              Rebuilding or not, those cups are not a coincidence.

                Owners realized Detroit fans wanted real hockey.

                  They tripled the scouting budget.   And represented hockey like hockey actually is.

                   Boom

                     

Tampa, and All Their Cups:    https://www.nhl.com/lightning/team/hockey-staff

                Guess What?

 

                 Yeah.

 

 

Flames have good scouting for the cultures/races that the owners are okay with.

         But that hurts us on the ice, and it looks...aweful.

 

They need to clean that up, they are already the butt of many jokes but if they don't fix it, one day they're not just going to be the receiver of jokes.

         

[robrob74]

52 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

 

VAN signing the Kuz.  What was the reason he considered VAN?

Nothing to do with scouting.

He was a top free agent available for the first time and not committed to the KHL.

He was a teammate of Podkolzin.

And the Nucks were able to guarantee a NHL roster spot.

Could we last summer?

 

Podkolzin. Drafting relevant talent making space for teammates. I would like to think we could have made space or guaranteed a spot for that kind of talent. Need to know how good they are though...

[travel_dude]

16 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

Podkolzin. Drafting relevant talent making space for teammates. I would like to think we could have made space or guaranteed a spot for that kind of talent. Need to know how good they are though...

 

There is this assumption that we had no clue.

And yes, we have Russians in the organizations.

One on the current roster.

 

We do have a coach that doesn't believe in non-vets being given a spot.

Gotta earn it, with whatever line I throw you on in camp.

No need if you are over 30, since you earned it 10 years ago.

[conundrumed]

4 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Can't not  like Gavin Brindley.  The rest ho-hum.

 

Don't like our chances of getting him though.  Ranked 43 by Button and 23 by Bob lol.

 

I'd pick him in the 2nd round in a heartbeat, but I assume you're talking about 1st round?   I fee like he'll be available but it is a nail-biter to take  a 5'9 kid in the first.     Especially at our spot.

 

You know what I want....unload some vets and get more picks.  Then yes.  Blink on this guy.

 

But if he becomes the next Gaudreau and scores 100+ points, I would seriously trade him.   Same reasons.   He'll wanna live in Florida and, well, he's already showing signs of playoff struggles.

No he isn't. You're making it up. 3g 8a in 8games in the Big 10 playoffs including 3a in a 4-3 victory over Minny in the final.

Both Ritchie and Musty will be nice picks too.

[jjgallow]

3 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

No he isn't. You're making it up. 3g 8a in 8games in the Big 10 playoffs including 3a in a 4-3 victory over Minny in the final.

Both Ritchie and Musty will be nice picks too.

 

ok.  seems I did make it up then.  my bad.

 

Nothing against the other two, they just don't jump out the same way.

[cross16]

4 hours ago, robrob74 said:

the Canucks seem to do well with Russians. I think it's about building a culture for them to feel welcomed. Whatever good will we had with Makarov has gone a waste side. 
 

imagine if the flames had Kuzmenko? Why can't the flames sign these guys? We got Cervenka. I'm happy with Duehr but these are the lesser lights of those kinds of free agent deals that we would like. 
 

 

Kuzmenko’s demands were he had to have top 6 mins and a guaranteed spot on the PP. wouldn’t sign unless both of that was guaranteed. 

Can debate if it’s worth it to sacrifice your culture for that but we can’t debate who the head coach is. 
 

FWIW, flames were a finalist for Pananrin. Picked the Hawks because they were a cup contender but Flames were a finalist. Just in case we actually want to believe a completely made up narrative that the Flames don’t scout Russia. 
 

I mean let’s also remember this is Calgary. We really think too free agents who can go wherever they want are going to pick to sign and live in Calgary?
 

 

[jjgallow]

44 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Kuzmenko’s demands were he had to have top 6 mins and a guaranteed spot on the PP. wouldn’t sign unless both of that was guaranteed. 

Can debate if it’s worth it to sacrifice your culture for that but we can’t debate who the head coach is. 
 

FWIW, flames were a finalist for Pananrin. Picked the Hawks because they were a cup contender but Flames were a finalist. Just in case we actually want to believe a completely made up narrative that the Flames don’t scout Russia. 
 

I mean let’s also remember this is Calgary. We really think too free agents who can go wherever they want are going to pick to sign and live in Calgary?

 

 

You have a point that they were in on the signing, but the rest of this is incorrect.

 

It was the opposite of this.   The Flames were actually coming off  a miracle season and projected very high.   The issue was that Panarin liked LW and the Flames were ridiculously stacked there, whereas on Chicago he just slid right in on the top line without much fuss.  Plus another Russian winger there.

 

I'll admit that it was good of the Flames to go for him.   Hardly proof of strong Russian scouting, there were a LOT of teams after him and he was not a secret.   Rather, it creates a whole other tangent about the Flames LW acquisitions lol.

 

Had they had a more diverse scouting staff and players, not only in terms of country but in terms of position, I think they would have beat out Chicago.  But he clearly made the right choice given that he was able to just walk in as their top LW.

 

One common theme with a lot of these guys is that money is not the most important thing to them.  Of course it's a factor.   But what they want more than anything is to play hockey.  So much so that it's part of the negotiation. 

 

I don't see that as a culture conflict.    I see it as something for a good GM to solve.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The_People1]

8 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

I can see your angle on that and he's not an aweful pick.   RH Center, captain.    Best on his team.

 

Seems reasonable since the Flames tend to believe in most drafts that their top need is a C and their strategy seems to be keep drafting them until one turns out.

 

Only thing is it might be a bit too obvious.  Button has him ranked a smidge lower than Bob.   Maybe because of his age.  He might be right.    I don't personally see this as a great pick.  Just, an okay pick.   But I think some other team will jump on him.    I'm expecting something  a bit more unexpected.

 

I've only seen highlights of Danielson.  He seems to have excellent vision and he's creative.  Main knock would be a lack of speed.  Looks as fast as Sean Monahan.

[travel_dude]

30 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

You have a point that they were in on the signing, but the rest of this is incorrect.

 

It was the opposite of this.   The Flames were actually coming off  a miracle season and projected very high.   The issue was that Panarin liked LW and the Flames were ridiculously stacked there, whereas on Chicago he just slid right in on the top line without much fuss.  Plus another Russian winger there.

 

I'll admit that it was good of the Flames to go for him.   Hardly proof of strong Russian scouting, there were a LOT of teams after him and he was not a secret.   Rather, it creates a whole other tangent about the Flames LW acquisitions lol.

 

Had they had a more diverse scouting staff and players, not only in terms of country but in terms of position, I think they would have beat out Chicago.  But he clearly made the right choice given that he was able to just walk in as their top LW.

 

One common theme with a lot of these guys is that money is not the most important thing to them.  Of course it's a factor.   But what they want more than anything is to play hockey.  So much so that it's part of the negotiation. 

 

I don't see that as a culture conflict.    I see it as something for a good GM to solve.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

IIRC, he made comments like he only really knew about Chicago and NYC.  Which is understandable.  He was a poor kid in Russia.  Whether he believed that he would become more rich in USA, the point stands that decisions are often made on bias.  

[cross16]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

 

You have a point that they were in on the signing, but the rest of this is incorrect.

 

It was the opposite of this.   The Flames were actually coming off  a miracle season and projected very high.   The issue was that Panarin liked LW and the Flames were ridiculously stacked there, whereas on Chicago he just slid right in on the top line without much fuss.  Plus another Russian winger there.

 

I'll admit that it was good of the Flames to go for him.   Hardly proof of strong Russian scouting, there were a LOT of teams after him and he was not a secret.   Rather, it creates a whole other tangent about the Flames LW acquisitions lol.

 

Had they had a more diverse scouting staff and players, not only in terms of country but in terms of position, I think they would have beat out Chicago.  But he clearly made the right choice given that he was able to just walk in as their top LW.

 

One common theme with a lot of these guys is that money is not the most important thing to them.  Of course it's a factor.   But what they want more than anything is to play hockey.  So much so that it's part of the negotiation. 

 

I don't see that as a culture conflict.    I see it as something for a good GM to solve.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Panarin signed in April of 2015. At that time the flame LWs were:

Gaudreau

Lance Bouma

Michael Ferland

Paul Byron 

Mason Raymond. 
Yup pretty stacked….

 

It’s not that money isn’t a factor, NHL rules prevent it from being one. No players, regardless of draft status, is an j restricted free agent until 27. So these guys coming over have to sign the same entry level contracts rookies (it’s why Kuzumenko only signed a 1 year deal). So trams can’t offer them more money it comes down to opportunity, winning,location etc. 

 

Which is why I say why is Calgary going to win many of these?

[jjgallow]

18 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Panarin signed in April of 2015. At that time the flame LWs were:

Gaudreau

Lance Bouma

Michael Ferland

Paul Byron 

Mason Raymond. 
Yup pretty stacked….

 

It’s not that money isn’t a factor, NHL rules prevent it from being one. No players, regardless of draft status, is an j restricted free agent until 27. So these guys coming over have to sign the same entry level contracts rookies (it’s why Kuzumenko only signed a 1 year deal). So trams can’t offer them more money it comes down to opportunity, winning,location etc. 

 

Which is why I say why is Calgary going to win many of these?

 

Bennett, Baertschi, Granlund,   all of which were very hyped at the time, none of which were really centers.

https://www.eliteprospects.com/team/54/calgary-flames/2014-2015

 

https://thewincolumn.ca/2021/10/14/breaking-down-the-calgary-flames-history-of-nearly-acquiring-star-players/

 

 

I don't think we need to have an argument about where he was better positionally.   That convo starts with Gaudreau and ends about 6 LWs later.   His decision to go with Chicago was well documented at the time, not that I actually trust the media but it was a pretty obvious logical mechanical move.

 

Yes, Calgary can win these if we create the right environment to do it.  Vancouver won the last one and they are aweful, so there you go.  Believe it or not, not all Russians love the US, lol.    I don't think we should make excuses when we literally have no Russian presence on staff and we are always stacked at the most likely positions for free agents to become available.

 

If we do the right things and have the right staff and draft/develop the hard positions rather than the easy ones, and we still can't get anyone to sign then at that point sure, but imho we are far from being in a position for those excuses to be valid.

 

 

[cross16]

47 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Bennett, Baertschi, Granlund,   all of which were very hyped at the time, none of which were really centers.

https://www.eliteprospects.com/team/54/calgary-flames/2014-2015

 

https://thewincolumn.ca/2021/10/14/breaking-down-the-calgary-flames-history-of-nearly-acquiring-star-players/

 

 

I don't think we need to have an argument about where he was better positionally.   That convo starts with Gaudreau and ends about 6 LWs later.   His decision to go with Chicago was well documented at the time, not that I actually trust the media but it was a pretty obvious logical mechanical move.

 

Yes, Calgary can win these if we create the right environment to do it.  Vancouver won the last one and they are aweful, so there you go.  Believe it or not, not all Russians love the US, lol.    I don't think we should make excuses when we literally have no Russian presence on staff and we are always stacked at the most likely positions for free agents to become available.

 

If we do the right things and have the right staff and draft/develop the hard positions rather than the easy ones, and we still can't get anyone to sign then at that point sure, but imho we are far from being in a position for those excuses to be valid.

 

 

Baertschi was already out of the organization by the time Pananrin signed. 
exactly. They are bad so they had no problems guaranteeing him the ice time and opportunity he was after. 
This complaint would have made sense under Sutter but since he stopped being the GM this just isn’t true. They drafted 7 Russians under Treliving, Feaster signed 2 players out of the KHL, they were a finalist for Panarin and they had Kucherkov on their draft board. 
 

Just another false narrative trying to be pushed with made up info. 

[jjgallow]

19 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Baertschi was already out of the organization by the time Pananrin signed. 
exactly. They are bad so they had no problems guaranteeing him the ice time and opportunity he was after. 
This complaint would have made sense under Sutter but since he stopped being the GM this just isn’t true. They drafted 7 Russians under Treliving, Feaster signed 2 players out of the KHL, they were a finalist for Panarin and they had Kucherkov on their draft board. 
 

Just another false narrative trying to be pushed with made up info. 

 

Fine lol I apologize profusely for my false narratives, it is extremely clear that Calgary had far more opportunities on LW and Panarin choose Chicago because he had not heard of Calgary or something like that.

 

lol.

[Thebrewcrew]

Really sad news about Michkov's father.

 

From a hockey aspect, I'm really curious to see where he goes. He's an incredible talent, but the team is gonna have to wait a while for him.

 

I think he ends up going to a team where the GM has some job security. An example being, I don't see CBJ picking them if they end up picking 3rd or 4th.

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Really sad news about Michkov's father.

 

From a hockey aspect, I'm really curious to see where he goes. He's an incredible talent, but the team is gonna have to wait a while for him.

 

I think he ends up going to a team where the GM has some job security. An example being, I don't see CBJ picking them if they end up picking 3rd or 4th.

 

Do you think Michkov would choose to stay home in Russia forever now?  Or want to leave Russia more than ever?

 

He's slightly undersized so he needs to bulk up but other than that, he's incredibly talented.  He has 6th sense and elite anticipation.  Goes to where the puck is going to be and not where it currently is.  Can't teach that stuff.  Kids have to be born with it.

[conundrumed]

3 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Do you think Michkov would choose to stay home in Russia forever now?  Or want to leave Russia more than ever?

 

He's slightly undersized so he needs to bulk up but other than that, he's incredibly talented.  He has 6th sense and elite anticipation.  Goes to where the puck is going to be and not where it currently is.  Can't teach that stuff.  Kids have to be born with it.

I streamed some of his KHL games awhile back. That kid will be tearing that league up by the time his contract expires. I'd likely have him at 2nd but where execs stand in that volatile political environment likely means the selection could be equal volatile. I think Dmitri Simashev(LD) could end up being the steal of the draft if he falls due to being Russian.

For dmen, personally, I'd put him with Reinbacher as the top 2 Dmen in the draft.

Myself, I'd focus on hockey alone and block out the other stuff but I have no skin in the game.

I do think that the draft will reach about 14-16 and someone (Nashville?) will take a dman and the run will start on 4-5 Dmen for the rest of the rd. I'll be surprised if Reinbacher isn't the first. I can't wrap my head around either Sandin-Pellika or Gulyayev as 1st rd Dmen. I'm just not swooned by O-first dmen like others.

I'd be fine with Reinbacher, Simashev or Willander at our pick. But for the latter 2, if Calum Ritchie is still on the board, it's a rock and a hard place. I don't think I could walk by him. I see a 1B/solid 2C in him. He's the top available C in what most consider the top CHL league. There is a lot to like and checks all of the boxes for what you wanna see.

The Oshawa commentators are literally laughing that he's ranked around 24th. "If a team gets him at 24, they're going to be extremely happy". I agree. He's ranked too low. I could easily slot him around 11 and definitely within the top 15.

I don't want us drafting Perrault. He's surrounded by Smith, Leonard, Moore. When someone takes him before Leonard, and they will, I will laugh. The former laps up the hard work of the latters. Leonard reminds me a bit of Tkachuk, like an old dog on a pork chop and great O instincts. Snarly and great around the net.

[conundrumed]

16 hours ago, zima said:

Seems to me we haven't done very well with Russia to this point we need to get some top players we are sure will sign with us and not NCAA player's I know we got got Coronato but he was not a top player but a first none the less which I know I had a couple conversations about I'm not a fan of college players only because I'm not a secure person when it comes to how ppl think and yes I am proof of that .

One 3rd rounder, Adam Fox, is the sole argument you have.

Soooo, here's where your direction would leave us:

No scouting Russia, NCAA, USHL, NAHL and the powerhouse hockey high schools/leagues in Minny, Michigan, Massachusetts, California, Chicago, St. Louis etc etc.

That effectively removes half of the NHL players and rising because of one Adam Fox.

Alternatively, you could just say, "Blockchain Adam Fox", and continue to turn over every stone for every best player in the world that you can possibly find.

Isn't that a better idea?

Bare in mind, the other 31 teams are still going to take Canadians and Scandinavians in the only markets that you're scouting.