2023 Calgary Flames NHL Draft

[travel_dude]

14 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I wanted Wallstedt.  I thought he was the best technical goalie in the draft.  Also, I felt Wallstedt's development path/timing would've fit perfect for a Flames rebuild at around this time or next season.  Never thought Wolf would emerge out of nowhere to be a legit NHL goalie.  It still looks like Wallstedt is trending well and could play in the NHL in about 2 years but he's likely not a superstar elite goalie.  Cossa I don't know.

 

I also really wanted the Flames to pick Askarov the year before that but he never fell to the Flames turn to draft.  He's in the Nashville system and it will be interesting to see what happens when he's NHL ready and the Preds still have Saros.

 

The franchise goalie is just too hard to find.  If Wolf isn't it, then we do what COL does.  Trade for one.  We went and signed what was never a franchise goalie.  That rarely works out unless they are coming from a backup spot.

 

I thought Wolf was too good to be drafted where he was.

He D+1 season suggested he was something special.

He never turned back in his D+2 season.

I figured at that point there was zero reason to draft a goalie in the first round.

[jjgallow]

3 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

The franchise goalie is just too hard to find.  If Wolf isn't it, then we do what COL does.  Trade for one.  We went and signed what was never a franchise goalie.  That rarely works out unless they are coming from a backup spot.

 

I thought Wolf was too good to be drafted where he was.

He D+1 season suggested he was something special.

He never turned back in his D+2 season.

I figured at that point there was zero reason to draft a goalie in the first round.

 

It's sooo hard to find that ... we probably shouldn't talk of Wolf like he's made it yet lol.   Bad Karma.

 

He's still missing some height, NHL teams will figure him out.  Guaranteed.

    How he responds to that, and how he re-invents himself, will determine whether he becomes a franchise goalie.

 

Askarov and Wallstedt are doing okay.   Cossa it's not looking great right now, but I'd still say the first two are holding Most of their value.

 

Luckily there's not really any first round goalies for us to fight about right now.  Net time there will be, we'll know a lot more about Askarov, Wallstedt...and Wolf.

[travel_dude]

11 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

Of Askarov/Wallstedt/Cossa, it's admittedly not looking great right now.    The way to go was to pick up some of the higher D on those drafts.   Give it another year or 2 though, these guys are young.

 

I just remember us with different thoughts about Cossa that year.  It really doesn't matter.  I think we make some good choices and some "I think I am smarter than you" ones.  Do I think we missed out on a couple of good ones?  Yep.

[travel_dude]

5 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

It's sooo hard to find that ... we probably shouldn't talk of Wolf like he's made it yet lol.   Bad Karma.

 

He's still missing some height, NHL teams will figure him out.  Guaranteed.

    How he responds to that, and how he re-invents himself, will determine whether he becomes a franchise goalie.

 

Askarov and Wallstedt are doing okay.   Cossa it's not looking great right now, but I'd still say the first two are holding Most of their value.

 

Luckily there's not really any first round goalies for us to fight about right now.  Net time there will be, we'll know a lot more about Askarov, Wallstedt...and Wolf.

 

I'm just saying, you pick a guy and make sure he gets the right path.

He has neither made it nor provided any reason why he will fail.

They have yet to figure out Saros, right?

 

[jjgallow]

Just now, travel_dude said:

 

I'm just saying, you pick a guy and make sure he gets the right path.

He has neither made it nor provided any reason why he will fail.

They have yet to figure out Saros, right?

 

 

Saros is exactly the guy I was thinking of when I made that comment.

 

They already did figure him out and there was some time where it was unclear if he would stay in the league.   I wanted to trade for him in here then. 

 

And....

 

He responded 

[travel_dude]

26 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Saros is exactly the guy I was thinking of when I made that comment.

 

They already did figure him out and there was some time where it was unclear if he would stay in the league.   I wanted to trade for him in here then. 

 

And....

 

He responded 

 

I think it's about progression more than teams figuring him out.

Not always linear.

 

[travel_dude]

NAS doing their part to screw up their own draft ranking.

Beat Minny in OT, so they can still pass us by winning tomorrow.

VAN doing what they can to go from 10th to 11th.

Thought we were dumb.

Then again, we gave up a chance at 13th overall by winning a nothing game.

[travel_dude]

VAN just dumped 9th overall to get to 11th overall.

LA is set at 3rd in the Pacific with WC 1 and 2 being SEA and WPG.

Only one game left tonight that can finalize the one of the seedings.

VGK needs a single point to win the West.

That sets them up to play WPG.

COL has a game remaining and needs 2 points to get 2nd WC spot, but 3rd overall in the West.

 

Funny situation.

[conundrumed]

11 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Oh you gonna bring that up?  lol.    Too bad, it's Archived!  jokes.  Can't wait till the archiving is listed so I can do an "I told you so" post on the Ortio thread.

 

Anyway.  Here's the thread:  

 

 

Looks like a lot of us said a lot of dumb stuff.  lol.

 

So dumb, I almost like the archiving.

 

 

this year @conundrumed's been asking me why I hate Cossa, and I'm like "I don't remember dissing him"...  checked...   @conundrumed was the one dissing him lol.    He's the only one with a clear record but for some reason now he's denying it lol

 

I started the thread off high on both goalies but I had cooled off on Cossa by draft time.  I am okay with my assessment there, preferred Wallstedt, didn't hate Cossa.    I think it's defensible.

 

Speaking of defense, though, my assessment of the D was pretty wild in hindsight lol.   I mean, I got it right that it was a good D year but I was way too excited about D that I thought might fall to us.  A little early but looking that way.  Maybe they'll pull through.   

 

So yeah drafting is hard.  Credit to the scouts.

 

It is also super fun though.

 

Of Askarov/Wallstedt/Cossa, it's admittedly not looking great right now.    The way to go was to pick up some of the higher D on those drafts.   Give it another year or 2 though, these guys are young.

 

Give it up. I said he sucked in one game that I watched. You alluded to, in another thread, Cossa sucks because he's in the ECHL. Like many NHL goalies have done. I have zero idea what point you're trying to prove by re-hashing that thread. Nobody is saying anything that's out of line. Hope you didn't spend too much time finding something pointless.

You seriously need to forget about hindsight and throwing around every prospect under the sun based on stats, sight unseen. Notice I don't talk up Riley Heidt? It's only because I've never seen him.

Here's a link, go to watch. Full games from the 5 Nations Cup or USHL game highlights for USNTDP:

https://www.usahockeyntdp.com/teamusa

 

There are plenty of ways to watch players that give you interest.

[jjgallow]

5 hours ago, conundrumed said:

 I have zero idea what point you're trying to prove by re-hashing that thread.

 

Well that is simple. lol.

 

@travel_dude was accusing me of being a Cossa fanboy.

 

I'm really very neutral on Cossa and couldn't care less except for the two of you constantly telling me what my opinion is of him lol.  The two of you need to talk and decide on a direction so that I can defend myself without starting a fight with the other.

 

You are getting up.  

 

To early.

 

In the morning.   I think.

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Well that is simple. lol.

 

@travel_dude was accusing me of being a Cossa fanboy.

 

I'm really very neutral on Cossa and couldn't care less except for the two of you constantly telling me what my opinion is of him lol.  The two of you need to talk and decide on a direction so that I can defend myself without starting a fight with the other.

 

You are getting up.  

 

To early.

 

In the morning.   I think.

 

I'm not going to go look it up, but I was sure that you had said Cossa was a can't miss and we should be considering him.  Maybe it was a passing thought on your part, and it may have been well before the draft.  My recollection was that you thought Cossa was better than Wolf at an earlier age.  

 

If you didn't say it, my bad.  My feeling at the time was we need more immediate prospects, not another long term goalie project.  We had Wolf at the time, and I felt he was worth developing 1st and foremost.

[jjgallow]

57 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I'm not going to go look it up, but I was sure that you had said Cossa was a can't miss and we should be considering him.  Maybe it was a passing thought on your part, and it may have been well before the draft.  My recollection was that you thought Cossa was better than Wolf at an earlier age.  

 

If you didn't say it, my bad.  My feeling at the time was we need more immediate prospects, not another long term goalie project.  We had Wolf at the time, and I felt he was worth developing 1st and foremost.

 

you're not entirely wrong or right, we're talking about comments made over several years, I was somewhat high on Cossa prior to his draft, and had lost a lot of that interest by the time the draft arrived, and I'm not going to get into why because I just don't see the point now lol.

 

Imho the whole stats vs scouting thing is not really a thing, 99% out there know it's both.    And opinions change, because players change.   We're trying to debate methodologies here on whether Cossa is/was good/bad etc etc,

 

Dude probably got a puck to the head in 2021.  Is my guess.   Nothing to do with stats or scouting.  sometimes it just is.    (that's not me calling him done either.  players recover from stuff)

[robrob74]

17 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

you're not entirely wrong or right, we're talking about comments made over several years, I was somewhat high on Cossa prior to his draft, and had lost a lot of that interest by the time the draft arrived, and I'm not going to get into why because I just don't see the point now lol.

 

Imho the whole stats vs scouting thing is not really a thing, 99% out there know it's both.    And opinions change, because players change.   We're trying to debate methodologies here on whether Cossa is/was good/bad etc etc,

 

Dude probably got a puck to the head in 2021.  Is my guess.   Nothing to do with stats or scouting.  sometimes it just is.

well, we also hear about how certain stats and different leagues translates to what they might do in other leagues. 
 

the WHL is more defensive so it's harder to score. How do the stats in that league translate to what players are getting in the QMJHL? When a player is in a men's league in Europe and how less they score can translate to what they would do against peers in Jr leagues in NA? 
 

stats do matter in many ways, but maybe not the full way of understanding a player.

 

I remember we drafted Nemisc or something as he was big and getting a lot of points on a strong line, but wasn't pushing play. So, where scouting and understanding they might have seen that they could be getting points due to line mates. 
 

although, stats still definitely count. If a player can't score points then the likelihood of scoring in the NHL isn't going to just happen. That's something that happens rarely, not impossible, but you can't suddenly expect a prospect who has never scored to suddenly be a 40-50 point guy. 
 

Hate to reference Burrows, but Burrows is a guy who played Roller Hockey Leagues and then transitioned to the NHL. I wouldn't know his stars in roller hockey, but he was an outlier, not the norm. 
 

another player that stands out that benefitted line mates was Anson Carter. I didn't look at pre NHL stats, but players can ride the coattails of more talented players. 

[travel_dude]

18 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

you're not entirely wrong or right, we're talking about comments made over several years, I was somewhat high on Cossa prior to his draft, and had lost a lot of that interest by the time the draft arrived, and I'm not going to get into why because I just don't see the point now lol.

 

Imho the whole stats vs scouting thing is not really a thing, 99% out there know it's both.    And opinions change, because players change.   We're trying to debate methodologies here on whether Cossa is/was good/bad etc etc,

 

Dude probably got a puck to the head in 2021.  Is my guess.   Nothing to do with stats or scouting.  sometimes it just is.    (that's not me calling him done either.  players recover from stuff)

 

Not important at all.  I like Wolfie and don't see the need to have drafted him with our only 1st round pick.

Minny probably has the perfect timeline to get him in.  I see ours being more trouble.

Wolf is ready now.

[travel_dude]

5 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

I remember we drafted Nemisc or something as he was big and getting a lot of points on a strong line, but wasn't pushing play. So, where scouting and understanding they might have seen that they could be getting points due to line mates. 

 

I believe the quick answer is a guy playing on a stacked team with Taylor Hall looks better than he is.  That is the trouble with just stats.  I don't get much about the players up for draft other than articles in Flamesnation.  At last you see more sometimes than just numbers.  The annoying thing is they profile players that will for sure go way after we pick.  Nice to know, but only if they make it to 2nd round.

[The_People1]

Would we consider picking Lukas Dragicevic?  He is Parker Bell's teammate in Tri-city and we drafted Parker Bell last year in the 5th round. Parker Bell was second in team scoring and Dragicevic led his team in scoring as a defenseman.

 

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0010092023.html

 

He's ranked somewhere in the 28 to 40 range.

 

If you want to see how a defenseman looks like on breakaways and offensive 2-on-1s, then watch Dragicevic's highlight package.  Not sure if he will translate well into the NHL since he will likely not be allowed that much freedom at the NHL level.

[Thebrewcrew]

6 hours ago, The_People1 said:

Would we consider picking Lukas Dragicevic?  He is Parker Bell's teammate in Tri-city and we drafted Parker Bell last year in the 5th round. Parker Bell was second in team scoring and Dragicevic led his team in scoring as a defenseman.

 

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0010092023.html

 

He's ranked somewhere in the 28 to 40 range.

 

If you want to see how a defenseman looks like on breakaways and offensive 2-on-1s, then watch Dragicevic's highlight package.  Not sure if he will translate well into the NHL since he will likely not be allowed that much freedom at the NHL level.

Yes they should consider it. I think he goes significantly earlier than 28th. I actually think he will be gone before the Flames pick. RHD, puckmover. Point producer 

[Thebrewcrew]

That coveted 16th pick belongs to Calgary 

[travel_dude]

33 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

That coveted 16th pick belongs to Calgary 

 

Yeaaaa.  Imagine what would happen if they revealed the 16th overall pick and it was NAS.

But you know, that if an unlikely lotto picks happens, it's that spot we vacated with the win.

That win moved us from 13th.

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

That coveted 16th pick belongs to Calgary 

 

Yes.  Not only that but we would've made the playoffs if we were in the East.  Just to kick it in some more.

[jjgallow]

8 hours ago, The_People1 said:

Would we consider picking Lukas Dragicevic?  He is Parker Bell's teammate in Tri-city and we drafted Parker Bell last year in the 5th round. Parker Bell was second in team scoring and Dragicevic led his team in scoring as a defenseman.

 

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0010092023.html

 

He's ranked somewhere in the 28 to 40 range.

 

If you want to see how a defenseman looks like on breakaways and offensive 2-on-1s, then watch Dragicevic's highlight package.  Not sure if he will translate well into the NHL since he will likely not be allowed that much freedom at the NHL level.

 

I tried watching the highlights but unfortunately I am only able to see stats

 

Yes we should.

 

I called his parents.  They think we should too.   He's a little light on he goals side of it but he's also 17.   Definitely should be on the shortlist for the Flames to look into further.

[conundrumed]

14 hours ago, The_People1 said:

Would we consider picking Lukas Dragicevic?  He is Parker Bell's teammate in Tri-city and we drafted Parker Bell last year in the 5th round. Parker Bell was second in team scoring and Dragicevic led his team in scoring as a defenseman.

 

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0010092023.html

 

He's ranked somewhere in the 28 to 40 range.

 

If you want to see how a defenseman looks like on breakaways and offensive 2-on-1s, then watch Dragicevic's highlight package.  Not sure if he will translate well into the NHL since he will likely not be allowed that much freedom at the NHL level.

I currently have him near our 2nd rd pick and I think he'll be close to that.

 

This doesn't apply to him, but I wish the NHL would throw out the Sept 15th age cutoff. Imagine if Bedard was an October birthday. He would HAVE to take the Matthews route because of the NHL.

I check all birthdays. If it's past Sept 15 then I'll revert to last year's stats when I believe the player should have been drafted.

For the CHL, I treat Sept 16th onward as the player being in their D+1 year because ONLY the NHL puts that barrier up, no other league holds you back. Not the player's fault, but for me, it's a more honest assessment. I'm more likely to kick you down a bit if you're an 04 birthday if last year's stats are much lower than this year. Because this is your 18yo season, not your 17yo. You're a year ahead of everyone if I throw out the NHL standard that no one else has used up until this point. In this sense, Pelletier and Zary ARE the same age. NHL rules don't change that.

[conundrumed]

Prolly the best place to put this:

https://www.hockeycanada.ca/en-ca/team-canada/men/under-18/2022-23/world-championship/stats/team-rosters?teamid=233

[conundrumed]

The u18 tourney is April 20-30. Finding rosters is like pulling teeth. It's too bad the CHL playoffs are in full swing, but we've definitely got some gamers. The US team is the USNTDP U18 team. But I seriously wonder if they'll add u17 ridiculously good Cole Eiserman. Canada has Celebrini on the roster. If the US adds Eiserman that's next year's 2 guys fighting it out for 1 & 2 in the draft. TSN is likely carrying the tourney.

Watch Celebrini. Berkly Catton may be a top 5 next year also.

US should be the favourite. They play together all year. I think Ryan Leonard would be a solid pick at 16th,amongst others.

[Thebrewcrew]

Watched three more draft eligibles.

 

Samuel Honzek- He reminds me a lot of Adam Ruzicka in terms of a prospect. There is talent, but there's also inconsistencies in effort and attention to detail. 16th would be too early for him IMO.

 

Matthew Wood- He just turned 18 and he was the best player on UConn. That's really something. RHS, good size at 6'3". Ties to Alberta. The issue for me is the skating, which could lower his ceiling as an NHLer.

 

Oliver Moore- I really like this player. Speed and skill. My viewings he was also a pretty decent defensive player for a draft eligible. Didn't play much with Smith and Leonard from what I've seen.