2023 Calgary Flames NHL Draft

[conundrumed]

There's going to be a whole lot of players that could be argued as bpa around our 15th-16th pick.

I think we can prioritize what it is that we actually want/need in the system.

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

There's going to be a whole lot of players that could be argued as bpa around our 15th-16th pick.

I think we can prioritize what it is that we actually want/need in the system.

as usual, what do we need?

 

C, RD/LD, RW, G, LW

 

i guess anyone's guess is as good as mine? JJ would say G. I think some would say D if there's a stud, but def need a good Defenseman in the system. I'd say maybe another C but we will draft a college LW.

[travel_dude]

38 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

as usual, what do we need?

 

C, RD/LD, RW, G, LW

 

i guess anyone's guess is as good as mine? JJ would say G. I think some would say D if there's a stud, but def need a good Defenseman in the system. I'd say maybe another C but we will draft a college LW.

 

We always go BPA and sometimes we are able to trade down and still get our guy.

I do think that at times you need to focus on position.  I think we did that with Coronato.

If all things are equal, a RHS C or RD is probably what I would look at. 

[conundrumed]

47 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

as usual, what do we need?

 

C, RD/LD, RW, G, LW

 

i guess anyone's guess is as good as mine? JJ would say G. I think some would say D if there's a stud, but def need a good Defenseman in the system. I'd say maybe another C but we will draft a college LW.

If Reinbacher (RD) is still there, I think it has to be him. Outside of that, there's still a lot of good fwds. I'm not sold on Pellika (LD ranked a 1st rder) and there will be decent D prospects in the following rounds.

Danielson, Musty, Ritchie, Leonard, Wood, Hronzek, Ziemmer, Brindley...I just don't see much separation to say bpa. Could be any of them and more with players that may fall.

[robrob74]

3 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

If Reinbacher (RD) is still there, I think it has to be him. Outside of that, there's still a lot of good fwds. I'm not sold on Pellika (LD ranked a 1st rder) and there will be decent D prospects in the following rounds.

Danielson, Musty, Ritchie, Leonard, Wood, Hronzek, Ziemmer, Brindley...I just don't see much separation to say bpa. Could be any of them and more with players that may fall.

I hope the Flames have done their homework. I guess you'd have some scout buddies who would know what many are saying..

[travel_dude]

4 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

I hope the Flames have done their homework. I guess you'd have some scout buddies who would know what many are saying..

 

I suspect this was a much better year for scouting.  The only issue is whether they just go with the crowd or develop a list from 1-216.  When players are passed over, it seems to be all but a couple of teams.  A game of chicken at times.  Who blinks first.

[conundrumed]

I'm most interested to see what we can pull out of rounds 2 and 3. From what I've watched, I like Swede Dman Willander more than Pellika, but doubt he gets to mid 2nd. Bertucci could be there who I really like as a puck moving D. Other D I like in further rounds are Sova, Middelstadt and Legault whom I believe are entering the 2nd drafts. Could make Sting C Dillingham a camp invite. He plays with a lot of consistent fire but he's also an overager so he should look better in the O.

Just trying to isolate dmen with potential that we can get into the system. They're hard to read but there always seems to be dmen that outperform their draft ranking at the end of the day.

With Mack Celebrini potentially being the runaway 1st oa next year, I really wonder about his brother Aiden with the Brooks Bandits. Sight unseen. Could it be another family affair? I don't believe we've ever drafted a player from them, but their consistent success points to it being a great program.

Just off of the top of my head Dmen that could have potential. I know that I'm forgetting some.

Hopefully we spend a lot of time scouting in Minnesota. With 54 active NHLers, it continues to be the hotbed of hockey for the US followed by Michigan(37) and Massachusetts(32).

[jjgallow]

19 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

We always go BPA and sometimes we are able to trade down and still get our guy.

I do think that at times you need to focus on position.  I think we did that with Coronato.

If all things are equal, a RHS C or RD is probably what I would look at. 

 

okay but that's not bpa, that's the opposite of bpa.

 

If you purposely avoid the best player available that's...not bpa.

 

And not surprisingly the outcomes of this approach have been....aweful.

 

It's pretty simple, just pick the best player available.   no downgrades.   they don't work.   I can't fathom considering anything other than upgrades.

[jjgallow]

22 hours ago, conundrumed said:

There's going to be a whole lot of players that could be argued as bpa around our 15th-16th pick.

I think we can prioritize what it is that we actually want/need in the system.

 

We would probably end up agreeing on the same player but this methodology is very often misinterpreted.   The player's probably not going to have a meaninful impact for 5 years, on average.   We have no idea what we will need in 5 years.  Way too many times the Flames try to guess this and have basically a 0 percent batting average on it.

 

To your point there are some knowns:

-RH players are always more rare.

-There is usually an over-abundance of LWs, except the truely elite ones.

-Defence always overlooked and hard to fill

-First-line players are rare.   Players who end up being elite, are very hard to acquire 

*Goaltending debate

 

The Flames have a long history of simply thinking:  "We gonna need a center" and bypassing all sorts of phenomenal talent, even trading down, to get the next center on their list, and their succees rate here has been 0.  Which should not come as a surprise.

 

..................................................................

 

Absolutely, absolutely need a center above all else?   That's weird,  but ok.  Trade up to get one, not down.

 

This is an aweful year to trade down.      It's also a very hard year to trade up.  So I don't anticipate much movement but if there is, I sure hope it's up.

 

.................................................................

 

So, "BPA", to me, factors in the knowns discussed above.

 

Can't decide between two talented players, one RH and one LH, all other factors equal?  You obviously take the RH player.   Talented RH D versus talented LW, all other factors equal?   Yeah.  You take the talented RH D.

 

IMHO, all of the above is fair game for the BPA calculation.

 

"We gonna need a center so let's trade down to get one"...  is NOT a BPA calculation.

[conundrumed]

49 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

We would probably end up agreeing on the same player but this methodology is very often misinterpreted.   The player's probably not going to have a meaninful impact for 5 years, on average.   We have no idea what we will need in 5 years.  Way too many times the Flames try to guess this and have basically a 0 percent batting average on it.

 

To your point there are some knowns:

-RH players are always more rare.

-There is usually an over-abundance of LWs, except the truely elite ones.

-Defence always overlooked and hard to fill

-First-line players are rare.   Players who end up being elite, are very hard to acquire 

*Goaltending debate

 

The Flames have a long history of simply thinking:  "We gonna need a center" and bypassing all sorts of phenomenal talent, even trading down, to get the next center on their list, and their succees rate here has been 0.  Which should not come as a surprise.

 

..................................................................

 

Absolutely, absolutely need a center above all else?   That's weird,  but ok.  Trade up to get one, not down.

 

This is an aweful year to trade down.      It's also a very hard year to trade up.  So I don't anticipate much movement but if there is, I sure hope it's up.

 

.................................................................

 

So, "BPA", to me, factors in the knowns discussed above.

 

Can't decide between two talented players, one RH and one LH, all other factors equal?  You obviously take the RH player.   Talented RH D versus talented LW, all other factors equal?   Yeah.  You take the talented RH D.

 

IMHO, all of the above is fair game for the BPA calculation.

 

"We gonna need a center so let's trade down to get one"...  is NOT a BPA calculation.

We totally agree. We aren't drafting for right now but you want an idea of 2-3 years down the road what is there.

I'm likely on the outside thinking that Ronni and Stromgren are really strong character picks. Kerins in the ECHL is perfectly normal if he can't get quality minutes in the A. Cossa was just named ECHL Player of the Month btw. I know you cheer against him because for some reason you feel it matters to prove a point. GR is a cesspool of erroneous horrendousness he didn't need to develop in. They don't really have any fwds and subjecting him to 40+ shots a night for his first taste probably isn't a great idea. He can wait a year while getting lots of reps.

I don't really see a reason to trade down. But it all depends on how the draft unfolds. I'm not really a fan of having a hard target which was the Zary situation. But that trade effectively allowed Calgary to also pick Poirier so it's hard to argue. If both become effective NHLers it's a big win. Alternatively, doing it for Janxy and Sieloff highlights how the wheels completely come off when you decide that you're a better scout than your scouts.

Things are way better now. So doing a trade down is only because your scouts are good with it.

Flames scouting has been solid. No reason not to let them dictate the draft. Just give them bullets in the chamber and don't trade away picks ffs.

*edit Stromgren, typing faster than thinking.lol

[jjgallow]

25 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

We totally agree. We aren't drafting for right now but you want an idea of 2-3 years down the road what is there.

I'm likely on the outside thinking that Ronni and Stromgren are really strong character picks. Kerins in the ECHL is perfectly normal if he can't get quality minutes in the A. Cossa was just named ECHL Player of the Month btw. I know you cheer against him because for some reason you feel it matters to prove a point. GR is a cesspool of erroneous horrendousness he didn't need to develop in. They don't really have any fwds and subjecting him to 40+ shots a night for his first taste probably isn't a great idea. He can wait a year while getting lots of reps.

I don't really see a reason to trade down. But it all depends on how the draft unfolds. I'm not really a fan of having a hard target which was the Zary situation. But that trade effectively allowed Calgary to also pick Poirier so it's hard to argue. If both become effective NHLers it's a big win. Alternatively, doing it for Janxy and Sieloff highlights how the wheels completely come off when you decide that you're a better scout than your scouts.

Things are way better now. So doing a trade down is only because your scouts are good with it.

Flames scouting has been solid. No reason not to let them dictate the draft. Just give them bullets in the chamber and don't trade away picks ffs.

*edit Stromgren, typing faster than thinking.lol

 

I don't recall cheering against Cossa,    I think that stems from a more isolated Cossa-versus-Wallstedt fight.   I would have easily drafted Wallstedt over Coronato, and still would today in a redraft.   Even though I also liked Coronato.   Wasn't as sure about Cossa but I like him too.

 

Anyway, yeah I think we mostly agree.   The Zary situation, imho, and I do hate to say it, is more similar to Janks than we like to admit, and the only difference may be some time.    I don't see Zary as an NHLer right now, if so, a marginal one.  Poirier maybe.    But the real question is whether anyone would trade Brayden Schneider for the two of them a couple years from now.  I'm guessing no.     But sure, it's still too early to say.     

 

Here's the thing though...if the Flames Really wanted  a center, they only had to trade up one spot to get the more highly-rated Darson Mercer who would be contributing actively right now.    You really need a position that bad, upgrade.    You really need more 2nd round picks, fine.  Trade a vet and go get that extra 2nd rounder.    We let all those vets walk away for free anyway.

 

I think they could have had Poirier and Mercer/Schneider just being a little smarter about bpa in the first round.

 

But yeah.   

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

 

okay but that's not bpa, that's the opposite of bpa.

 

If you purposely avoid the best player available that's...not bpa.

 

And not surprisingly the outcomes of this approach have been....aweful.

 

It's pretty simple, just pick the best player available.   no downgrades.   they don't work.   I can't fathom considering anything other than upgrades.

 

BPA is a tough call.  Not everyone uses the Central Scouting list as to what is BPA.

The only two examples of the Flames trading down I can think of are Janko and Zary.

Janko - no need to go there, that was not scouting lists, just some boob deciding alone he was.

Zary - we can argue about BPA, but Zary was up there. 

 

1st round trading down that is.

[jjgallow]

2 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

BPA is a tough call.  Not everyone uses the Central Scouting list as to what is BPA.

The only two examples of the Flames trading down I can think of are Janko and Zary.

Janko - no need to go there, that was not scouting lists, just some boob deciding alone he was.

Zary - we can argue about BPA, but Zary was up there. 

 

 It gets muddy.  I recall certain Flames scouts raving about Jankowski but I also agree there is no need to go there lol.

 

Those are the only 2 instances if we discount the times the Flames just gave away their first pick altogether, I'll agree.

 

Basically this:   Flames have, very recently, been drafting well in later rounds.   Gotta give them credit for that.

 

                 First round drafting, however, has been elusive for them.  

 

      The only success they have had in the first round is when they pick so high that there is almost no choice but to go BPA due to coverage of those players.   Tkachuck the most recent example.   If they could figure their first round picks out, and stop trading them away, I'd have a lot less rebuild ammunition.   

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, jjgallow said:

 

 It gets muddy.  I recall certain Flames scouts raving about Jankowski but I also agree there is no need to go there lol.

 

Those are the only 2 instances if we discount the times the Flames just gave away their first pick altogether, I'll agree.

 

Basically this:   Flames have, very recently, been drafting well in later rounds.   Gotta give them credit for that.

 

                 First round drafting, however, has been elusive for them.  

 

      The only success they have had in the first round is when they pick so high that there is almost no choice but to go BPA due to coverage of those players.   Tkachuck the most recent example.   If they could figure their first round picks out, and stop trading them away, I'd have a lot less rebuild ammunition.   

 

Can't do anything about trading 1st round picks away

That's really neither here nor there.

 

Our 1sts include Monahan, Bennett, Tkachuk, Valimaki, Pelletier, Zary and Coronato.

Can't really argue too much about Coronato or most of the others.

I like Wyatt Johnson, but he was well down the BPA list.

At least we didn't trade down for that, right?

[jjgallow]

42 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Can't do anything about trading 1st round picks away

That's really neither here nor there.

 

What about,  Not trading them away?  lol

 

42 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Our 1sts include Monahan, Bennett, Tkachuk, Valimaki, Pelletier, Zary and Coronato.

Can't really argue too much about Coronato or most of the others.

I like Wyatt Johnson, but he was well down the BPA list.

At least we didn't trade down for that, right?

 

https://nhlentrydraft.com/news/dallas-stars-johnston-impressive-season-draft-steal/

 

He was an odd case yes, and an example where stats would have pulled him out of the haystack in a very difficult year to to scout.    

 

I did not see enough in him to draft him in our spot, I must admit.   But I was an advocate of getting Something back for all our assets we were about to lose, and was hoping for more than 1 first round pick.   We could have got it done.

 

Really, you are making the arguement that our first round picks haven't really been That bad.    We have almost nothing to show for all of the above, but I concede to your point maybe there are other problems to solve for that.     I mean I admit, the picks above don't look aweful, except maybe Zary, who is too soon to make a call on.  But:

 

1.   A lot of missing picks there.

2.   A lot of missed opportunities not necessarily bpa related but simply not having many or any picks.

3.  Going back further in our first round history, a lot more of nothing.

 

[zima]

6 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

What about,  Not trading them away?  lol

 

 

https://nhlentrydraft.com/news/dallas-stars-johnston-impressive-season-draft-steal/

 

He was an odd case yes, and an example where stats would have pulled him out of the haystack in a very difficult year to to scout.    

 

I did not see enough in him to draft him in our spot, I must admit.   But I was an advocate of getting Something back for all our assets we were about to lose, and was hoping for more than 1 first round pick.   We could have got it done.

 

Really, you are making the arguement that our first round picks haven't really been That bad.    We have almost nothing to show for all of the above, but I concede to your point maybe there are other problems to solve for that.     I mean I admit, the picks above don't look aweful, except maybe Zary, who is too soon to make a call on.  But:

 

1.   A lot of missing picks there.

2.   A lot of missed opportunities not necessarily bpa related but simply not having many or any picks.

3.  Going back further in our first round history, a lot more of nothing.

 

Other than Conor Mc Draisaitl  look at all there first over alls and top 6 picks the mediocrity of the oilers they for the first time have made it to the top in standing and they had to get MdyD Draisaitl and then you look at us and what we did with what we had I think we won 

[jjgallow]

4 hours ago, zima said:

Other than Conor Mc Draisaitl  look at all there first over alls and top 6 picks the mediocrity of the oilers they for the first time have made it to the top in standing and they had to get MdyD Draisaitl and then you look at us and what we did with what we had I think we won 

 

Who are the Oilers?

[travel_dude]

14 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

What about,  Not trading them away?  lol

 

 

https://nhlentrydraft.com/news/dallas-stars-johnston-impressive-season-draft-steal/

 

He was an odd case yes, and an example where stats would have pulled him out of the haystack in a very difficult year to to scout.    

 

I did not see enough in him to draft him in our spot, I must admit.   But I was an advocate of getting Something back for all our assets we were about to lose, and was hoping for more than 1 first round pick.   We could have got it done.

 

Really, you are making the arguement that our first round picks haven't really been That bad.    We have almost nothing to show for all of the above, but I concede to your point maybe there are other problems to solve for that.     I mean I admit, the picks above don't look aweful, except maybe Zary, who is too soon to make a call on.  But:

 

1.   A lot of missing picks there.

2.   A lot of missed opportunities not necessarily bpa related but simply not having many or any picks.

3.  Going back further in our first round history, a lot more of nothing.

 

 

Can you fly around the earth counter clockwise to turn back time?  No we can't do anything about traded 1st round picks.

I'm not going to really say who the best players out of the 21 draft are, since the majority have not played yet.  I'm not sure you would have seen any of Wyatt excpet for the WJC.  As far as I can tell, he played nothing else.

 

Plenty of blame to pass around.  Useless coaches responsible for Bennett's usage and "development" because they are the only ones that had any control about him.  Tkachuk was handled better because he was a winger.  First year no better than Bennett stats.  We finally release Tkachuk from being a Backlund muscle to being part of a scoring machine, but maybe too late for his decision making.  More boobs involved in coaching this team than a Saturday night at Hooters. 

 

There are hundreds of misses in the draft.  Anything during Sutter years or Burke era should be called a right off.  Sutter had the same attitude as GM as he does as a coach.  I think him and Burke share the same braincells.  Burke has perhaps grown a bit, understanding the other side of the game.  BT is bookended between the Burke influence then owners having control over moves and Sutter influence to roster decisions.  The drafting is better than some worse than others.  But very few get it right all the time, if any.  You get great talent that are nutbars. 

[conundrumed]

20 hours ago, jjgallow said:

I don't recall cheering against Cossa,    I think that stems from a more isolated Cossa-versus-Wallstedt fight.   I would have easily drafted Wallstedt over Coronato, and still would today in a redraft.   Even though I also liked Coronato.   Wasn't as sure about Cossa but I like him too.

It comes down to projection between Cossa and Wallstedt imo. Detroit's scouts likely decided that Cossa offered more to develop, as opposed to where they were in the right now.

20 hours ago, jjgallow said:

Anyway, yeah I think we mostly agree.   The Zary situation, imho, and I do hate to say it, is more similar to Janks than we like to admit, and the only difference may be some time.    I don't see Zary as an NHLer right now, if so, a marginal one.  Poirier maybe.    But the real question is whether anyone would trade Brayden Schneider for the two of them a couple years from now.  I'm guessing no.     But sure, it's still too early to say. 

Sometimes I think that you cheer for the Flames scouting to Blockchain up. I know tmac watches the Wranglers all of the time so I'll leave it to him as I'm unable to stream AHL games in the west and start times work against me subscribing.

But if Zary is keeping up the middle C projection that's a really good pick. Adding Poirier, who was always going to be a project, in the 3rd rd is a nice touch. I can't fight the feeling that you're using hindsight. No one has hindsight at the draft table. Regarding Janxy, I wanted us to take Maatta or Vasilevsky at 14. When the 2nd was Sielloff, who played for Windsor, I was mortified. I knew nothing about Jankowski.

At the end of the day, I felt like Feaster and his sidekick were acting like they are way smarter than everyone else. That is a critical blunder. Every team has the world's best scouts. If you think you're pulling the wool over everyone's eyes, it's likely because they want you to think that.

Dallas GM Jim Nill has a lot of eyes here due to his time in Detroit seeing as you brought up Wyatt Johnson. He's also a top GM for using his scouting, as is BT. Every pick won't be perfect nor will it ever for anyone. We aren't privy to the reasoning but it exists, whether we understand it or not.

20 hours ago, jjgallow said:

Here's the thing though...if the Flames Really wanted  a center, they only had to trade up one spot to get the more highly-rated Darson Mercer who would be contributing actively right now.    You really need a position that bad, upgrade.    You really need more 2nd round picks, fine.  Trade a vet and go get that extra 2nd rounder.    We let all those vets walk away for free anyway.

Only? You make it sound like making deals with other GMs and their scouting depts is a cakewalk. Did you even know who Dawson Mercer is at the draft table? You are looking at kids in the NHL right now and potentially too early to support your arguments. Also known as hindsight. Nill waited it out with Robertson and it's paid off huge. Should the Devils have waited on Mercer? If they weren't an atrocity, I'm sure they would have. Same with Buffalo and Cozens.

Same with Bennett in Calgary. The AHL agreement is painful. But you can never say, well that guy put up 100pts in jr last year, there is nothing left for him there. Critical blunder. Almost all of them are still building mass and muscle so waiting on that alone is worth it. Rather than everything all at once in the NHL. There are exceptions, but there sure aren't many.

[jjgallow]

5 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Can you fly around the earth counter clockwise to turn back time?  No we can't do anything about traded 1st round picks.

I'm not going to really say who the best players out of the 21 draft are, since the majority have not played yet.  I'm not sure you would have seen any of Wyatt excpet for the WJC.  As far as I can tell, he played nothing else.

 

Plenty of blame to pass around.  Useless coaches responsible for Bennett's usage and "development" because they are the only ones that had any control about him.  Tkachuk was handled better because he was a winger.  First year no better than Bennett stats.  We finally release Tkachuk from being a Backlund muscle to being part of a scoring machine, but maybe too late for his decision making.  More boobs involved in coaching this team than a Saturday night at Hooters. 

 

There are hundreds of misses in the draft.  Anything during Sutter years or Burke era should be called a right off.  Sutter had the same attitude as GM as he does as a coach.  I think him and Burke share the same braincells.  Burke has perhaps grown a bit, understanding the other side of the game.  BT is bookended between the Burke influence then owners having control over moves and Sutter influence to roster decisions.  The drafting is better than some worse than others.  But very few get it right all the time, if any.  You get great talent that are nutbars. 

 

lol.  Full marks for the Hooters analogy

 

It's less about turning back time for me and more about learning from mistakes.

 

Weird hobby, I know.

[jjgallow]

43 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

It comes down to projection between Cossa and Wallstedt imo. Detroit's scouts likely decided that Cossa offered more to develop, as opposed to where they were in the right now.

Sometimes I think that you cheer for the Flames scouting to Blockchain up. I know tmac watches the Wranglers all of the time so I'll leave it to him as I'm unable to stream AHL games in the west and start times work against me subscribing.

But if Zary is keeping up the middle C projection that's a really good pick. Adding Poirier, who was always going to be a project, in the 3rd rd is a nice touch. I can't fight the feeling that you're using hindsight. No one has hindsight at the draft table. Regarding Janxy, I wanted us to take Maatta or Vasilevsky at 14. When the 2nd was Sielloff, who played for Windsor, I was mortified. I knew nothing about Jankowski.

 

I agree with you on Janx.   However, since we're bringing up hindsight, when I was critical of the Jankowsky pick./trade I was routed on here and accused of being a troll, etc etc etc...

 

We all know I have a charming personality so this was very hard to understand.

 

My point is, lol:   Everyone on here was 100% supportive of the Jankowsky move, and any criticism of it was met with "you can't predict the future".     Any mention of the Flame's track record of going off-board in the first round (cause Jankowsky wasn't the first) was met with   "hindsight is 20/20"

 

There is a very, very, very fine line between "hindsight is 2020" and simply refusing to learn from anything, which is pretty common in this space.

 

So when the Jankowski situation presented itself, did you disagree on here?  What did crash have to say?

 

On Zary/Poirier:     Still to early to say for Sure, but generally speaking downgrading picks is caused by over-confidence and it rarely goes well.  I like to think we agree on that, you just don't want me too overconfident when I say it.

                          "middle C" what does that mean.
                           A 3rd line center is not a good pick.  Why?  cause you can pick them up for free in the offseason.
                          A 2nd line center is a good pick.

                           You don't downgrade unless you think you can pick just as good of a pick in the downgrade.
                                         it's looking 80% chance they were wrong on this.
                            You don't downgrade like that unless you're very confident of your 2nd round scouting.
                                      This, I will give them.   BUT.
                                        Why not just acquire more picks then?   Why downgrade your first to do it?
                                       Still dumb.   Dumb then, dumb now, dumb in the future. You know it. I know it.

 

 

43 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

At the end of the day, I felt like Feaster and his sidekick were acting like they are way smarter than everyone else. That is a critical blunder. Every team has the world's best scouts. If you think you're pulling the wool over everyone's eyes, it's likely because they want you to think that.

Dallas GM Jim Nill has a lot of eyes here due to his time in Detroit seeing as you brought up Wyatt Johnson. He's also a top GM for using his scouting, as is BT. Every pick won't be perfect nor will it ever for anyone. We aren't privy to the reasoning but it exists, whether we understand it or not.

 

So again when Feaster was GM everyone on here loved him lol.  Just saying.  

 

Wyatt:  Yeah.   Great scouts will find him, especially without covid.  Stats will also find him.

                      Great organisations will use a combination of the two to find him.

 

What does Dallas have that we didn't?   10 picks, is what they had.

                   They had 10 picks and could afford to take calculated chances.

                        Wyatt was flying up the rankings, and they blinked, cause they could.

 

                        It was killing me to watch the Flames lose pick after pick to a lost cause.

 

                        I look forward to that "era" hopefully ending.

 

 

43 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Only? You make it sound like making deals with other GMs and their scouting depts is a cakewalk. Did you even know who Dawson Mercer is at the draft table? You are looking at kids in the NHL right now and potentially too early to support your arguments. Also known as hindsight. Nill waited it out with Robertson and it's paid off huge. Should the Devils have waited on Mercer? If they weren't an atrocity, I'm sure they would have. Same with Buffalo and Cozens.

Same with Bennett in Calgary. The AHL agreement is painful. But you can never say, well that guy put up 100pts in jr last year, there is nothing left for him there. Critical blunder. Almost all of them are still building mass and muscle so waiting on that alone is worth it. Rather than everything all at once in the NHL. There are exceptions, but there sure aren't many.

 

BT makes it seem like downgrading picks and losing picks for literally nothing (Monahan etc) is a cakewalk.  Which makes the reverse true.

         If you're doing deals with BT, sorry but it is a cakewalk.

 

Can't have cake and eat it too, can't be like losing first rounders is no big deal but upgrading one spot is super hard.

 

No I didn't know Dawson Mercer because I felt we needed D/goaltending.   And still do, as demonstrated by...this whole season.

           

            I think you're slightly off the mark rebutting me.

 

             I'll throw you a bone on something I may regret:

 

            Here's what I wanted that round:

            

                     I wanted us to upgrade   (don't regret this since we gave all our assets away for free anyway)

 

                  My list was  (it's documented in here, I can't run from it):

                          Drysdale

                          Askarov

                          Sanderson

                          Schneider  (if not upgrading)

 

         All probably would have turned out a hella lot better than downgrading.  Unless Poirier jumps another big level  ( but we never needed to downgrade to get him).

      But Askarov could come back to haunt lol.   I expected him to transition a bit better.  Hardly giving up on him yet.   But there.  I've thrown you a bone.

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

Sometimes I think that you cheer for the Flames scouting to Blockchain up. 

 

On this:  No dude.   In some past years I was pretty upset with our scouts.  Lately, not so bad with some exceptions like Zary.    

 

But it's not really Zary I was upset with, it was the trade itself.    And that's all BT.

 

Giving away first rounders like they grow on trees.

 

Downgrading first rounders like we just don't care.

 

That's not the scouts.  It ain't.

 

Scouts are not like "Hey BT we think we're so good that we only need half the picks of all the other teams.   You can just trade the rest away".

 

No man.   Scouts didn't say that.  fyi.

 

That's BT.  And that's what I don't like.

[conundrumed]

Any chance we can pick up 2017 19thoa 3C Filip Chytil for free? That would be a real sweet one! What? 19th oa and he's only a 3C? What a pack of losers.

How much would you have paid to jump 8 to 14 spots in a 1st rd? That would be XXXXpensive. Like, not worth it XXXXpensive.

Braden Schneider? So that current 3rd pairing Dman at 15mins/night is what you're hanging your hat on? Not sure why you have it in for Zary. At 21 he's a 20-40 C in the A. That's good progression.

Could potentially make the roster out of camp next year.

[jjgallow]

39 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Any chance we can pick up 2017 19thoa 3C Filip Chytil for free? That would be a real sweet one! What? 19th oa and he's only a 3C? What a pack of losers.

 

Dude's a 2C on a stacked team at C, let's not be silly.   He was already a 6'2 NHL vet at Zary's age.

 

39 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

How much would you have paid to jump 8 to 14 spots in a 1st rd? That would be XXXXpensive. Like, not worth it XXXXpensive.

 

Easy.   Give BT to another team.   Trade for their version of Monahan.   Boom, you get the player, and a whole other first rounder.   Forget upgrading, just a whole new first round pick.  

 

 

He'll do upgrades for cheap too.  Proven.

 

 

39 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Braden Schneider? So that current 3rd pairing Dman at 15mins/night is what you're hanging your hat on? Not sure why you have it in for Zary. At 21 he's a 20-40 C in the A. That's good progression.

Could potentially make the roster out of camp next year.

 

 

yeah maybe they'll trade him back to us right?

 

I would advise against using the Ranger's depth at D as an argument to defend BT's decisions.

[robrob74]

When I look at Schneider, people always say that it takes longer for D to develop. He's the same age as Zary and playing in the NHL already. 
 

Likewise, it would be good to wait on determining what he is, as those say to wait on Zary as well. 
 

we've depleted our C depth, so now it is good to have one in the system. We have low Depth on D as well, so I remember I wanted a Defense back then.
 

i just don't like trading down to get an extra pick.
 

I was mortified when we drafted Jankowski, in a year they said we were still going for it and needing a C for Iginla, we draft a project.
 

Hopefully Zary turns out very good for us. I'm like JJ, wish we would use extra players as draft capital, the way other teams seem to get for their players... like the Preds did this year. Build the farm so there is a constant carousel of players coming through that gives us the ability to do that kind of thing, instead of using draft picks to fill holes trading for other teams' expensive players.