Flames 22/23 Lineup

[tmac70]

23 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Overall the team has good pieces.

Just can't seem to bake a cake with what we have.

Either we drop shells in the batter or we drop the cake coming out of the oven.

It seems like the ingredients may be right, but the order or amounts are off.

Get a fudge brownie instead of a chocolate cake.

A brownie with wallnuts.

Right now this club is like throwing Satoshi Nakamoto in a blender in hopes it turns into chocolate pudding.  It appears the excitement of all the new ingredients nothing seems to rise. Its going to be a looong year. Hard to believe Chucky and Johnny leave and  every ounce of hockey IQ and skill set with it. 

[The_People1]

6 hours ago, tmac70 said:

Right now this club is like throwing Satoshi Nakamoto in a blender in hopes it turns into chocolate pudding.  It appears the excitement of all the new ingredients nothing seems to rise. Its going to be a looong year. Hard to believe Chucky and Johnny leave and  every ounce of hockey IQ and skill set with it. 

 

Well last season was fun but towards the end of the season and into the playoffs, it became plain to see the Flames were a one line team.  Chucky and Johnny leave and it's no wonder what we have left.

 

Yes, we just acquired Huberdeau and Kadri, threw them into the blender and hoped it works.  Our hands were tied so that's forgivable.  What's important is what we do next.  Keep doing the same thing expecting different results or go another route?

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Well last season was fun but towards the end of the season and into the playoffs, it became plain to see the Flames were a one line team.  Chucky and Johnny leave and it's no wonder what we have left.

 

Yes, we just acquired Huberdeau and Kadri, threw them into the blender and hoped it works.  Our hands were tied so that's forgivable.  What's important is what we do next.  Keep doing the same thing expecting different results or go another route?

 

Really. we have 4 players in the top 6 that are top 6 players.  Dube and Mange are fine players, but I don't see them being used right.  Together, they are small on th boards.  Kadri played with a big winger last year and looked great.  Any time he passes to the wongs, they tend to lose it with any pressure.  Both are sneaky players, not the ones that win battles.  So, we do need to find the balamce and identify who is suited to play with a C. 

 

We have Dube sized prospects, but nobody that really is a power F.

And we have 2 that size in the NHL.

Need to split them up.  They have been good in stretches.

Maybe them playing with Backlund solves it.

Or we drop Dube to 4C.

Just don't have the top 6 to compete against all teams.  

[tmac70]

4 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Well last season was fun but towards the end of the season and into the playoffs, it became plain to see the Flames were a one line team.  Chucky and Johnny leave and it's no wonder what we have left.

 

Yes, we just acquired Huberdeau and Kadri, threw them into the blender and hoped it works.  Our hands were tied so that's forgivable.  What's important is what we do next.  Keep doing the same thing expecting different results or go another route?

I get what your saying, the only issue is what you are advocating for will not happen. The tear it down scenario just will never happen. They wish to win now, sadly they can never put forth a team that is of any quailty. How many years has this club looked good on paper only to be just that a very good paper squad. IMHO coaching is not the issue, we just have to many players that are just average at best, the standings prove this we are close to a 50/50 team. 

[tmac70]

17 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Really. we have 4 players in the top 6 that are top 6 players.  Dube and Mange are fine players, but I don't see them being used right.  Together, they are small on th boards.  Kadri played with a big winger last year and looked great.  Any time he passes to the wongs, they tend to lose it with any pressure.  Both are sneaky players, not the ones that win battles.  So, we do need to find the balamce and identify who is suited to play with a C. 

 

We have Dube sized prospects, but nobody that really is a power F.

And we have 2 that size in the NHL.

Need to split them up.  They have been good in stretches.

Maybe them playing with Backlund solves it.

Or we drop Dube to 4C.

Just don't have the top 6 to compete against all teams.  

We have to many small forwards for sure. The sad fact is the more we toss and change the pairings and line up the more disconneted they become. Kadri really hasn't impressed me much, tends to give the pucl away at the wrong time doesn't use his wingers well, really doesn't win alot of face offs. The one player that is slowiy coming out of the funk is Hubie. His D game is very good now and lst night he starting to shoot more. The more he starts to shoot the more it will open up lanes for passing as he is now a threat for shooting ans passing. Toffoli is a shoot first guy, either scores or misses the net. What I miss this year is the sustained pressure we use to have in the O zone, now its dump chase and chase back the other way. 

[travel_dude]

18 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

We have to many small forwards for sure. The sad fact is the more we toss and change the pairings and line up the more disconneted they become. Kadri really hasn't impressed me much, tends to give the pucl away at the wrong time doesn't use his wingers well, really doesn't win alot of face offs. The one player that is slowiy coming out of the funk is Hubie. His D game is very good now and lst night he starting to shoot more. The more he starts to shoot the more it will open up lanes for passing as he is now a threat for shooting ans passing. Toffoli is a shoot first guy, either scores or misses the net. What I miss this year is the sustained pressure we use to have in the O zone, now its dump chase and chase back the other way. 

 

Missing that zone entry guy (JG).  Kadri doesn't use his wings because he knows what they do with it.  Mangiapane and Dube are crafty on the boards once they enter but are not good at entries unless on the rush.  

 

Hubey will be fine as long as you get him the right guy in the middle.

Toffoli is good on quick shots.

Kadri is drive the net.

Lindholm is quiet area shots and defensive.

Ruzicka is pretty good at driving play.

Coleman is all around player.

Backlund good zone entry player.

 

Balance the lines in a practice and go with it.

[cross16]

your going to need patience. When you over turn as much as your team as they did it takes time and 30 games isn't enough. 

 

Remember when Sutter took over as the coach? Coached for 56 games and they looking middling at best. Easier to forget that going into last season many were picking the Flames to miss the playoffs. 

 

it takes time and especially it takes time for a Darryl Sutter coached team. We shouldn't be rushing to conclusions until 40-50 games IMO. 

[tmac70]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Missing that zone entry guy (JG).  Kadri doesn't use his wings because he knows what they do with it.  Mangiapane and Dube are crafty on the boards once they enter but are not good at entries unless on the rush.  

 

Hubey will be fine as long as you get him the right guy in the middle.

Toffoli is good on quick shots.

Kadri is drive the net.

Lindholm is quiet area shots and defensive.

Ruzicka is pretty good at driving play.

Coleman is all around player.

Backlund good zone entry player.

 

Balance the lines in a practice and go with it.

I could get behind something like this:

Hubie Lindy Toffoli

Rozie Kadri Phillips

Mags Backs Coleman 

Dube Zoh Lewis

 

We are truely missing that top 3-6 guy that drives entry for sure. We know the top line is good at not allwoign goals, Mags Backs Coleman were always good, The Rozie Kadri Phillips is an unknown. Phillips and Kadri can drive the net at least Rozie can hold on to the puck for the most part. 

 

[travel_dude]

Projected lineup based on morning skate and goalie confirned:

 

Dube-Lindholm-Toffoli

Huberdeau-Kadri-Mangiapane

Ruzicka-Backlund-Coleman

Lucic-Zohorna-Lewis  

 

Hanifin-Andersson

Zadorov-Weegar

Mackey-Stone

 

Markstrom

[conundrumed]

Stolen from Reddit user Chad-TreintaUno for hilarity:

The line-up for next game

Lucic-Lindholm-Toffolic

Lucic-Kadric-Mangiapane

Lucic-Backlucic-Lucic

Lucic-Zahorna-Lewcic

Hanifin-Andersson

Mackey-Lucic

Zadorov-Weegar

Markstrom+Lucic

 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

Stolen from Reddit user Chad-TreintaUno for hilarity:

The line-up for next game

Lucic-Lindholm-Toffolic

Lucic-Kadric-Mangiapane

Lucic-Backlucic-Lucic

Lucic-Zahorna-Lewcic

Hanifin-Andersson

Mackey-Lucic

Zadorov-Weegar

Markstrom+Lucic

 

 

I must have missed the plays where Lucic emerged as a premier LW and Ruzie was garbage.

The 2nd period saw us outshoot STL 15-3, and little of that was 2 straight PP's.

Ruzicka ended up with one shift in the 3rd along with Lewis and Zohorna.

Lucic ended up at over 12.

 

Overall, the changes to the lines had impact.

Backlund's line had an off night, but still kept STL off the board.

Until they played Lucic with him.

That was some terrible backchecking by Lucic.

 

The Hubey line suffered a bit from Kadri's bad faceoff numbers.

I think they looked dangerous at times.

Would give this line some time.

 

But OMG, that 4th line.

Lucic has about 5 good minutes in a game.

Swapping him out for Phillips is not the worst thing in the world.

Ideal that we use Phillips in the top 8, but there isn't a fit with 9 healthy bodies up there.

Ruzicka may have had some bad shifts but he is the only big body on the line.

He wins puck battles, makes subtle plays, but I find him getting better chances away from the boards.  

 

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

Swapping [Lucic] out for Phillips is not the worst thing in the world.

Ideal that we use Phillips in the top 8, but there isn't a fit with 9 healthy bodies up there.

Ruzicka may have had some bad shifts but he is the only big body on the line.

He wins puck battles, makes subtle plays, but I find him getting better chances away from the boards.  

 

But if you do use Phillips in the top9, are there guys who can slot down and not make as big of an impact? 
 

It isn't like all of the top9 work well together or click every game. It seems every third game someone is going but the rest aren't, just different all the time so we see what we see.
 

Sutter doesn't sit guys enough that aren't giving it. He needs to stop playing favourites and allow a Phillips to play if he's actually trying. He does it for Lucic a lot. Guys notice those things and if a precedent is set to sit when not playing well or hard then it's a good way to lose the room, like Hartley when he went into real win mode the last year he coached....

 

Coleman, Lindholm, Toffoli
Ruzicka, Kadri, Phillips
Huberdeau, Backlund, Mangiapane

Lewis, Zahorna, Dube

 

 

[travel_dude]

9 hours ago, robrob74 said:

But if you do use Phillips in the top9, are there guys who can slot down and not make as big of an impact? 
 

It isn't like all of the top9 work well together or click every game. It seems every third game someone is going but the rest aren't, just different all the time so we see what we see.
 

Sutter doesn't sit guys enough that aren't giving it. He needs to stop playing favourites and allow a Phillips to play if he's actually trying. He does it for Lucic a lot. Guys notice those things and if a precedent is set to sit when not playing well or hard then it's a good way to lose the room, like Hartley when he went into real win mode the last year he coached....

 

Coleman, Lindholm, Toffoli
Ruzicka, Kadri, Phillips
Huberdeau, Backlund, Mangiapane

Lewis, Zahorna, Dube

 

 

 

Might work as it.

If you are playing Dube on the 4th line, then move him between Zoh and Lew.

 

My problems is lack of merit for minutes.

Lucic was not one of the best players after being scratched for 3 games.

No way he should have gotten that many 3rd period shift...with Backlund.

I wouldn;t say that Ruzicka had one of his best games, but he was better than Hubey.

Didn't cause a goal on a soft play.

1 shift in the 3rd period, along with Lew and Zoh.

 

The PK is really the only good story, but we have a habit of trying for the shortie and getting burned.

The PP was good to start, top 10 IIRC.

Then we changed it for some reason.

Moved Kadri away from the net.

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Might work as it.

If you are playing Dube on the 4th line, then move him between Zoh and Lew.

 

My problems is lack of merit for minutes.

Lucic was not one of the best players after being scratched for 3 games.

No way he should have gotten that many 3rd period shift...with Backlund.

I wouldn;t say that Ruzicka had one of his best games, but he was better than Hubey.

Didn't cause a goal on a soft play.

1 shift in the 3rd period, along with Lew and Zoh.

 

The PK is really the only good story, but we have a habit of trying for the shortie and getting burned.

The PP was good to start, top 10 IIRC.

Then we changed it for some reason.

Moved Kadri away from the net.

there are some weird decisions for sure. Feels a bit like there are egos trying to be saved here.

[The_People1]

On 12/13/2022 at 11:48 AM, cross16 said:

your going to need patience. When you over turn as much as your team as they did it takes time and 30 games isn't enough. 

 

Remember when Sutter took over as the coach? Coached for 56 games and they looking middling at best. Easier to forget that going into last season many were picking the Flames to miss the playoffs. 

 

it takes time and especially it takes time for a Darryl Sutter coached team. We shouldn't be rushing to conclusions until 40-50 games IMO. 

 

I think it takes more than 40-50 games.  Losing two core guys, arguably three with Monahan... Weegar still doesn't fit on any pairing, etc... It was a major retool.

 

For me the question was, should we have retooled by adding 29-year-olds or 18-year-olds?   Both needs time.  We're talking 2 to 5 years.   By then the 29s are aged out of prime.  Like, Kadri is already 32... 

[MP5029]

3 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

I think it takes more than 40-50 games.  Losing two core guys, arguably three with Monahan... Weegar still doesn't fit on any pairing, etc... It was a major retool.

 

For me the question was, should we have retooled by adding 29-year-olds or 18-year-olds?   Both needs time.  We're talking 2 to 5 years.   By then the 29s are aged out of prime.  Like, Kadri is already 32... 

This is why I hate the Flames always going after 30+ players…having said this, we are stuck with this for at least another 5 years.

 

the only real option is to double down…

 

I think next year should be a lot better, but they need to address a key area of Weakness, which could be easily done by resigning Monahan, should be doable with Lucic off the books…

 

move Kadri to RW and that should sort the top 3 lines out pretty well:

 

Hubi/Lindholm/Kadri

Manji/Monahan/Toffoil 

Dube/Backlund/Coleman 

 

solid Ctr depth and a much improved FO 1,2,3 punch 

 

also none of this factors in Ruzicka or

Pelltier or Zary being ready next year, making a few guys expendable in that group if need be.  Also, with those guys I’m pretty sure they can move those top 9

around a little and form a solid, and much improved 4th line….That one singing of

Monahan this FA season could fix everything, and also proves Lucic’s salary has been messing everything up the past few years…NOT Monahan. 
 

D is also an area of trouble, it’s not bad but the absence of Kylington is really messing up the flow. That and Tanev is no spring chicken and will need to be replaced but who? When? Anyway, short term either Kylington needs to be in the line up or his salary off the books so he can be replaced short term.  Love the guy and want him to play but if he can’t right not that’s ok but he’s a key cog on the top 6 D depth, especially with Tanev getting hurt often.  Otherwise the D solid, and deep enough but you need your top 6 in the line up not eating up cap Cap space.

[travel_dude]

4 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

I think it takes more than 40-50 games.  Losing two core guys, arguably three with Monahan... Weegar still doesn't fit on any pairing, etc... It was a major retool.

 

For me the question was, should we have retooled by adding 29-year-olds or 18-year-olds?   Both needs time.  We're talking 2 to 5 years.   By then the 29s are aged out of prime.  Like, Kadri is already 32... 

 

We are missing two core guys on the backend, so it's not figured out yet.

We have guys that played lights out with Tanev.

One is MIA.

The other is playing as if he's top 2.

I'm not sure exactly which players would work the best together at this point.

Since we haven't had all 6 yet.

Weegar-Tanev looked good, but I don't like the two RHS together.

 

I might like to see the following:

Kylington-Ras

Hanifin-Weegar

Zadorov-Tanev

 

Seems to me you have a smart defeinsive guy on each pair and LHS-RHS pairs.

 

As far as the replacement players, we built a team to compete in the playoffs.

We lost three that were silent every year.

If we can get a decent seedng in the playoffs, we could make some noise.

Need to fix some things right the Blockchain now though.

Fix the PP.

Stop playing for 2-1 games and look to score right after you get a goal.

Don't just send out the next line up.

[JTech780]

Dennis Gilbert has been recalled.

 

I wonder if Mackey goes on waivers today. He just hasn’t shown enough IMO to stick around.

 

Really wish we knew what was happening with Kylington. 

[robrob74]

27 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Dennis Gilbert has been recalled.

 

I wonder if Mackey goes on waivers today. He just hasn’t shown enough IMO to stick around.

 

Really wish we knew what was happening with Kylington. 

 

I think Kylington is done for the year. I can't see him just walking in and being the player he was last year. Maybe last years hit is playing in his head and wondering if the game is worth that kind of danger? Those kinds of things create anxieties and other mental health issues.

[conundrumed]

46 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Dennis Gilbert has been recalled.

 

I wonder if Mackey goes on waivers today. He just hasn’t shown enough IMO to stick around.

 

Really wish we knew what was happening with Kylington. 

But Mackey is now our only snipe.

[zima]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

But Mackey is now our only snipe.

W hats happened to Stone ? Since Kyl isn't back yet why would we waiver Macky they have kept him this long doesn't make sense to lose him plus the way things are going either we need Wolf to come up or get one of our D to play in goal can't do any worse.

 

[cross16]

On 12/18/2022 at 4:53 AM, The_People1 said:

 

I think it takes more than 40-50 games.  Losing two core guys, arguably three with Monahan... Weegar still doesn't fit on any pairing, etc... It was a major retool.

 

For me the question was, should we have retooled by adding 29-year-olds or 18-year-olds?   Both needs time.  We're talking 2 to 5 years.   By then the 29s are aged out of prime.  Like, Kadri is already 32... 

 

We can keep talking about this but that would assume it was ever on the table and I think by now we know what that answer is. I agree they should have rebuilt and gotten younger but I don't think that was every on the table. 

 

On when they play together Weegar/Tanev have been one of the best shutdown pairings in the NHL. 

[pcs]

On 12/18/2022 at 9:23 AM, travel_dude said:

 

 

As far as the replacement players, we built a team to compete in the playoffs.

We lost three that were silent every year.

If we can get a decent seedng in the playoffs, we could make some noise.

 

I feel like this gets overlooked a lot lately when complaining about the new guys. I liked Johnny’s showing this last season in the playoffs (except when he was cheating the breakout instead of playing D on the series-ending goal…), but aside from that we had a substantial history of getting very little from these guys in the playoffs. Chucky was an absolute ghost against both Dallas and Edmonton this last time around. His one good game in the first round kinda padded his stats… so why would we actually be sad about the guys we lost, knowing that come playoff time they’re just gonna disappear anyway? I think we’ll see a lot more life out of hubie and kadri in the playoffs than we ever did out of Johnny and Chucky.

[cross16]

It's not a game day so it's not worth freaking out over but its hard to have words for Lucic in the top 6.

 

But putting the Mang-Backs-Coleman line back is super intriguing. They were dynamite last year. 

 

If be really cool if they could just swap Lucic and Phillips. 

 

 

 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

It's not a game day so it's not worth freaking out over but its hard to have words for Lucic in the top 6.

 

But putting the Mang-Backs-Coleman line back is super intriguing. They were dynamite last year. 

 

If be really cool if they could just swap Lucic and Phillips. 

 

 

 

 

I think this is exactly what Sutter said he didn't want to do.

Play Phillips on the 4th line.

It's fine if you play him and Ruzie 12+ minutes, but don't tell me you think Lucic can.

It's a joke.

Lucic is at best a platoon player, mayber 60 games at most.

Assuminig you want a guy to hit and fight most nights.

His out there against 3/4 of the players in the NHL is a loss.