jjgallow Posted July 23, 2022 Report Share Posted July 23, 2022 4 hours ago, travel_dude said: It was a hard switch for me. Don't get me wrong, I think we have the better player. I just didn't like the idea of getting older players. I'm totally with you on this, and when the two of us are on the same page (on anything) there's probably something to it lol. I was able to get myself Sort of past this, because there are probably more player years between Weegar and Huberdeau than Tkachuck, who I expect to retire early with his style. In fact I expect Tkachuk will retire before Weegar does. Where I wasn't able to reconcile, is the contract years. We have more upcoming UFAs than ever now .....lesson learned? Not so sure. So if we get one season out of both of them, which is highly likely, then no. 2 combined player years does not compensate for the 10 years we had in Tkachuk. I would have also preferred the prospect proposals but if Treliving were to somehow sign these guys long term it would get interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouCifer Posted July 23, 2022 Report Share Posted July 23, 2022 46 minutes ago, jjgallow said: 1. We have more upcoming UFAs than ever now .....lesson learned? Not so sure. 2. So if we get one season out of both of them, it does not compensate for the 10 years we had in Tkachuk. 1. UFAs are gold come trade deadline. Look, you and I share many similar ideas and thoughts about what the right direction of this team should be. So, let me appease you by saying if this team decides to tear it down after this season and next, how many draft picks, prospects, and young and upcoming talent could we acquire by selling off Hubie, Weegar, Lindholm, Backlund, Looch, Mony, Hanifin… I mean, if they decided this was going to be the direction today, my goodness would we have a heck of a start to a rebuild, no? I look at this trade as 1 more kick at the can and depending how it goes, we may be realistically looking at BT and essentially Sutter not getting renewed and a new voice coming in to orchestrate a complete rebuild. 2. We never had 10 years in Chucky. He decided that wasn’t going to happen. So, if any part of this trade turns into great years with Hubie and Weegar, or compensation for those 2 players, I’d argue we may benefit more from having these 2 assets at our disposal at amazing contract values than Chucky! Go Flames Go! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosn111 Posted July 23, 2022 Report Share Posted July 23, 2022 I see on here a lot of interest in Barzal. For me to have any interest, there would need to be an extension signed very early. From what I can find on qualifying offers, anyone making over 1 million needs to have a QO of at least 100% of current SALARY not cap hit. Barzal salary next season is 10 mil, big reason why he is possibly available for trade. So his QO next year would be 10 million. His playmaking is a huge plus and would likely further elevate Mangiapane, but that next contract scares me because of the way it was signed. It would make it much harder to sign Huberdeau, Weegar, Mangiapane etc. long term, even with the contracts of Monahan and Lucic leaving. But for consideration: Huberdeau / Lindholm / Toffoli Mangiapane / Barzal / Coleman Dube / Backlund / Ruzicka Lucic / Rooney / Lewis Looks like a potent and balanced forward lineup. Lindholm covers more defensively on top line while also shooting as Huberdeau sets up Toffoli. Coleman does the D and crashing while Barzal sets up Mangiapane. 3rd line pitches in offensively but is primarily D focused. 4th line is tough, energetic and experienced. Kadri instead of Barzal would add less playmaking but more bite. Not sure which is preferred. While Barzal likely cheaper this season, would cost more long term. As further options that may do well and cost less for much longer, though step down from the two above (at least for now), what about Dylan Cozens or Dawson Mercer as targets? Cozens has 1 year then RFA, Mercer 2 then RFA, both under 1 mil. Both are 22 and already doing fine in the NHL on not great teams. Mercer 82 GP, 17G, 25A. Cozens 79 GP, 13 G, 25 A. Cozens is more likely available for a reasonable cost. Buffalo has the cap to take on Monahan + Valimaki, Kylington or Dube. Would that be reasonable? Monahan ca support Thompson and Middlestat to develop while adding one of the other 3 helps offset if Monahan can’t stay healthy plus cap? Mangiapane / Cozens / Coleman doesn’t look bad to me either. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 23, 2022 Report Share Posted July 23, 2022 2 hours ago, cross16 said: As much as I question getting older there is no question you have to give Treliving a lot of credit here. You lose your two best players in one off season you would assume your team is done but he’s managed to lose both guys and still make his team a contender within the division. That’s pretty impressive. I think asking why they didn’t get future is valid but it’s also not likely the preferred route for the org. Something will need to get sorted out ok D. I would be surprised if the Flames got Weegar and then put him on the 3rd pair and they are staring to stack some depth. Valimaki,Kylington and Mackey all require waivers and I believe the flames are really high on Mackey. So something had to give I think. No queston, we are better positioned with Huberdeau. I wonder if he is a better fit in the west over Johnny. Bigger, less likely to be knocked off the puck. Not quite the same talent in some ways, but seems to be a faster player. I could be wrong about his skating but I thought he was fast. I also like the addition of Weeger. I'm just not sure where we go from here. We have Meloche now as a depth RD and Valimaki/Mackey as depth LD. As much as Valimaki may be the superior player of that bunch, I almost expect a trade coming. Meloche was a replacement for Stone, but he also was a deal that was signed before we got Weeger. Looking at the defense we have the following pairing that Sutter probably would like to lean on. I'm just breaking it down this way due to movers and defensive types together. Hanifin-Ras Kylington-Tanev Zadorov-Weeger The 2nd and 3rd pairs listed could split minutes evenly. You don't relly have to shelter a pair like last year so much. I can't see them giving up on Kylington, since he took a big step last season, even if he regressed in the latter part of the season. Maybe Mackey is better, but he still hasn't earned a spot. Sutter likes him, but he had given a lot of trust to Kylington. Regarding the new players Huberdeau and Weeger, I don't know if they are Plan A and they are meant to be re-signed or if there is a 2nd trade coming of those players. I would prefer that we sort out the contracts before the season starts. Get Hubrdeau re-signed and if we want Weeger as a player, get him signed as well. We haven't sorted out the rest of the roster yet. Lucic and Monahan are not cap casualties yet and maybe we don't need to deal either this year, but it seems like a waste of cap and positions right now. Just keeping Lucic for a policeman seems like a poor use of cap. I expect we will sign or trade for a middle 6 center, so there may be no good reason to keep Monahan. I can't see him returning to top 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 23, 2022 Report Share Posted July 23, 2022 12 hours ago, phoenix66 said: To put this in more perspective.. remember when we traded Bennett and he suddenly became the center we always wanted him to be ? He was playing with Huberdeau When he got bumped back when Giroux came in, he fell off a cliff and ended the season as the Sammy we all remembered I was thinking that. I thought JH was one of the better Panthers in the playoffs, but wasn't rewarded. I think the issue with the Panthers is they couldn't afford to pay him next year. Yeah Chucky gets the big bucks, but they were going to have to shell that out for a 29 year old. Pooor Bennett. Now he has the big personality of Tkachuk to deal with. Wonder how long it is before he asks to be traded to the Flames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted July 23, 2022 Report Share Posted July 23, 2022 1 hour ago, cross16 said: that’s not relevant imo. End of the day it’s all about asset management, especially as a small market club. This isn’t about avoiding rebuilds (I’d welcome one) it’s about managing assets and you can’t let top assets walk for nothing in this market. The biggest elephant in the room I think people are overlooking...and that's the fact BT and Sutter are both in the last year of their deals This was never going to be a rebuilding year. And almost got forced into one . .. what were gonna see like it or not is the mother of all , "all in" years ... Wouid be nice of ourse to resign players ..I think we will.. but if there's gonna be a rebuild it starts after next season 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 23, 2022 Report Share Posted July 23, 2022 12 hours ago, phoenix66 said: Do it...haha. He can't have 11..sooo.. gonna need a new number here... 😎 If they did that, I could just buy some new letters. HUBER instead of GAU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartbreaker Posted July 23, 2022 Report Share Posted July 23, 2022 10 minutes ago, phoenix66 said: The biggest elephant in the room I think people are overlooking...and that's the fact BT and Sutter are both in the last year of their deals This was never going to be a rebuilding year. And almost got forced into one . .. what were gonna see like it or not is the mother of all , "all in" years ... Wouid be nice of ourse to resign players ..I think we will.. but if there's gonna be a rebuild it starts after next season Yeah, and anyone who thinks that we're trading Huberdeau or Weegar at the trade deadline is out to lunch. They'll have to have the most catastrophic season in franchise history riddled with injuries and poor play, and be miles out of the playoffs for that to even be considered. Not happening. Best get them signed. Love. ** edit for spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Tribal Chief Posted July 23, 2022 Report Share Posted July 23, 2022 Im Honestly Really Shocked What Bt Got for Chucky yeah he had a wicked year last year but i never thought he was really worth that much like florida could of just waited a year and signed him as a freee agent honestly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartbreaker Posted July 23, 2022 Report Share Posted July 23, 2022 3 minutes ago, travel_dude said: If they did that, I could just buy some new letters. HUBER instead of GAU A helpful Reddit tutorial: Love. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 23, 2022 Report Share Posted July 23, 2022 12 hours ago, The_People1 said: Barzal is a Gaudreau at Center. When he's on fire, he's a top 10 Center in the NHL... But he had a bad year so he's on discount. Would love to do Hanfin + Monahan for Barzal if that's possible. If NYI likes Monahan, then this might work. Okay, I hear ya. So, woring on a theme. Lou is cheap. Monahan at 50% plus Valimaki plus Zary for Barzal. They get a top prospect that they can stash. A controlled LD that is looking to bust out. If that didn't interest them, swap Hanifin for Valikami. But then we are weaker in the top 4 D. Kylington has to be able to top 2 and Mackey or Valimak plays with Tanev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickross Posted July 23, 2022 Report Share Posted July 23, 2022 Barzal would be a great addition, Sutter type player?…not so sure but it could work here. Monny has already been written off on these boards lol..to think he was once out top C. Apparently things change quickly in Calgary! If there’s anyway we can secure a pure sniper for that 1st line…we’d be a pretty well balanced team moving forward. And did Stone sign elsewhere already or is he still part of the Flames plans ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted July 23, 2022 Report Share Posted July 23, 2022 36 minutes ago, phoenix66 said: The biggest elephant in the room I think people are overlooking...and that's the fact BT and Sutter are both in the last year of their deals This was never going to be a rebuilding year. And almost got forced into one . .. what were gonna see like it or not is the mother of all , "all in" years ... Wouid be nice of ourse to resign players ..I think we will.. but if there's gonna be a rebuild it starts after next season I would be surprised if the intention behind this was to intentional not resign them. I think they will try for sure and I think they’ll have a good shot and retaining them. But if the plan is to go all in and the heck with re signing them it will be one of the worst decisions I will have seen this franchise make in sometime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmac70 Posted July 23, 2022 Report Share Posted July 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, cross16 said: I would be surprised if the intention behind this was to intentional not resign them. I think they will try for sure and I think they’ll have a good shot and retaining them. But if the plan is to go all in and the heck with re signing them it will be one of the worst decisions I will have seen this franchise make in sometime. Have to agree you don't do this on a whim.. There has to be some form of indication they would sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 23, 2022 Report Share Posted July 23, 2022 1 hour ago, jjgallow said: Where I wasn't able to reconcile, is the contract years. We have more upcoming UFAs than ever now .....lesson learned? Not so sure. So if we get one season out of both of them, which is highly likely, then no. 2 combined player years does not compensate for the 10 years we had in Tkachuk. I would have also preferred the prospect proposals but if Treliving were to somehow sign these guys long term it would get interesting. Most teams have a ton of UFAs at some point. It's the downside to max terms and UFA signings. We were looking for a captain, and we couldn't justify Tkachuk or Johnny. No way we let him walk. Sure, we are gonna pay him what Gaudreau or Tkachuk would have gotten, but whatever. And we only keep Tkachuk if we paid $10.5M for Gaudreau. If you are not rebuilding then you better be improving. The only thing I will miss is the dominant scoring we had for one year, in most games. Have to find the right RW to fit now. But that really was the case anyway. We were down a winger and got the same one back. Now we are down the other winger. Kadri is an option, but moving for Barzal is also an option. One of them could be our 2C. How we deploy the lines depends on which one. If Barzal. Mangiapane would go to top RW perhaps, with Huber-Lindholm-Mange 2nd line is Dube-Barzal-Toffoli If Kadri Huber-Kadri-Mangiapane Dube-Lindholm-Toffoli I don't know. Barzal is more of a playmaker, so we use finishers with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted July 23, 2022 Report Share Posted July 23, 2022 I don’t think you can go into the season without extensions for either of them. As Heartbreaker said we aren’t moving them at the deadline, because we are most likely going to be in a playoff spot or at least on the bubble. If that is the case we aren’t moving them. Then we run the risk of them pulling a Gaudreau, and walking for nothing. Then we are left with a 2025 1st that is lottery protected and a prospect with 3rd line potential for Tkachuk. Don’t get me wrong I am excited about both players, but if we go into the season without extensions this trade is a colossal failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmac70 Posted July 23, 2022 Report Share Posted July 23, 2022 So where is it knowledge that Barzel is even available? Love the player, just find it hard to belive Islanders part with him. I could see us moving in on Kadri, Rodrigiues ect. I do admire what Tre has done here and I don't think he is done yet. If he can move out Lucic and or Monahan, would be something. I aslo think we are moving out some D personal as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted July 23, 2022 Report Share Posted July 23, 2022 28 minutes ago, rickross said: Barzal would be a great addition, Sutter type player?…not so sure but it could work here. Monny has already been written off on these boards lol..to think he was once out top C. Apparently things change quickly in Calgary! If there’s anyway we can secure a pure sniper for that 1st line…we’d be a pretty well balanced team moving forward. And did Stone sign elsewhere already or is he still part of the Flames plans ? even when he was our top C I didn't want him as the top C. Just thought he wasn't good enough all-rounded. He'd have been a great #2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted July 23, 2022 Report Share Posted July 23, 2022 24 minutes ago, cross16 said: I would be surprised if the intention behind this was to intentional not resign them. I think they will try for sure and I think they’ll have a good shot and retaining them. But if the plan is to go all in and the heck with re signing them it will be one of the worst decisions I will have seen this franchise make in sometime. i think it's no different than last off-season really. I had my doubts they'd retain Johnny and Matthew. So to me, it's no different. Although, Tkachuk could have been a means to gain youth, expedite the future. This is Calgary, you know they/owners choose playoffs over the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 23, 2022 Report Share Posted July 23, 2022 18 minutes ago, robrob74 said: i think it's no different than last off-season really. I had my doubts they'd retain Johnny and Matthew. So to me, it's no different. Although, Tkachuk could have been a means to gain youth, expedite the future. This is Calgary, you know they/owners choose playoffs over the future. It's a different thing to re-sign your drafted players after they experienced the ups and downs of the organization than it is to re-up new guys and pending UFA's. The players that come here seem to love playing here. The ones that start out here either love it or want to move on. Guddy got an offer he couldn't refuse. And was a victim of the cap that we had no idea how to manage. Bennett was a spolied baby. Tkachuk decided that he dodn't want to be here and supposedly it had nothing to do with Gaudreau. Gaudreau decided he was an American. So, we have a chance to sign two players we could only get as UFA's or overpaying for. Huberdeau as a UFA would be more desired than Johnny was. He will be the highest paid Flames player next year. Why just pack it up and go somewhere that just wants to pay a little more? I'm sure he will like the team and love the seriousness of wanting to be a contender. Tkachuk didn't care and was incapable of doing everything need to win a cup. Gaudreau just wants to play hockey and hide in the rink. On another note, here is the conditions attached to the trade: Ryan Pike @RyanNPike · 22m If Florida's 2025 pick is top 3, #Flames send 2026 4th-rounder to FLA and receive their 2026 1st-rounder. If Florida's pick is not top 3, Flames send 2025 4th-rounder to FLA and receive their 2025 1st-rounder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sak22 Posted July 23, 2022 Report Share Posted July 23, 2022 8 minutes ago, travel_dude said: It's a different thing to re-sign your drafted players after they experienced the ups and downs of the organization than it is to re-up new guys and pending UFA's. The players that come here seem to love playing here. The ones that start out here either love it or want to move on. Guddy got an offer he couldn't refuse. And was a victim of the cap that we had no idea how to manage. Bennett was a spolied baby. Tkachuk decided that he dodn't want to be here and supposedly it had nothing to do with Gaudreau. Gaudreau decided he was an American. So, we have a chance to sign two players we could only get as UFA's or overpaying for. Huberdeau as a UFA would be more desired than Johnny was. He will be the highest paid Flames player next year. Why just pack it up and go somewhere that just wants to pay a little more? I'm sure he will like the team and love the seriousness of wanting to be a contender. Tkachuk didn't care and was incapable of doing everything need to win a cup. Gaudreau just wants to play hockey and hide in the rink. On another note, here is the conditions attached to the trade: Ryan Pike @RyanNPike · 22m If Florida's 2025 pick is top 3, #Flames send 2026 4th-rounder to FLA and receive their 2026 1st-rounder. If Florida's pick is not top 3, Flames send 2025 4th-rounder to FLA and receive their 2025 1st-rounder. Don't think the American thing was a decision, he was actually born there. As for the spoiled baby comment, I've never heard anything of that, out of some of the younger players coming into the organization he was one that didn't need to have his arm pulled to get involved with the community, and by most accounts was well liked in the room. Didn't work out for the guy but he was far from a spoiled baby from everything I've heard, and I've heard from very reliable sources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted July 23, 2022 Report Share Posted July 23, 2022 Priority one has to be to sign both Huberdeau and Weegar to extensions. If they aren’t signed by training camp, I think you have to move them. I also think you can eat half their contracts and maximize the return. Huberdeau at $3m would bring back a lot of assets back. Same with Weegar at $1.75m. Again I would prefer to see them both signed, but we can’t risk losing these players for nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 23, 2022 Report Share Posted July 23, 2022 5 minutes ago, sak22 said: Don't think the American thing was a decision, he was actually born there. As for the spoiled baby comment, I've never heard anything of that, out of some of the younger players coming into the organization he was one that didn't need to have his arm pulled to get involved with the community, and by most accounts was well liked in the room. Didn't work out for the guy but he was far from a spoiled baby from everything I've heard, and I've heard from very reliable sources. Many players decid they like it in this country. For many, the homeland draws them back. It's a decision as to where his kid was going to be born. The spoiled part came from deciding he wasn't getting what he wanted here. He was played down the lineup, but he never grabbed the rings. Was great in the playoffs, but when it didn't change his role, he got mad about it. Wanted to be traded. When Sutter came in, he thought it might chage. Sutter didn't see enough to change his role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted July 23, 2022 Report Share Posted July 23, 2022 I look at a team like Colorado who is up against the cap, and lost a lot of offense between Kadri and Burakovski this offseason. I could see them paying a pretty big price to get Huberdeau at $3m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlameFan4Life Posted July 23, 2022 Report Share Posted July 23, 2022 If we are truely all in this year I can see BT moving or buying out Mony and spending that cash on Bergeron short term. Also Montreal is reportedly looking to move on from Anderson. So moving some dmen out and possibly Lucic or Backlund could make the cap work for us. Hube/Berg/Anderson Mang/Lindy/Tofolli Pelltier/Rooney/Coleman Dueher/Rudzica/Lewis Hannafin/Andersen Zadoroz/Weegar Mackey/Tanev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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