UFA 2021

[robrob74]

So, UFA signings are coming soon. 

 

What rumours are we hearing? Who are we signing? What do you think? 

We have a few holes to fill and how do we fill them?

 

Right now, I see a 4th line, especially if Sutter continues to use Ritchie up the lineup... We need a Top4 D if we lose Giordano. A top6 RW, and a backup.

[robrob74]

I heard today on the Fan960 that we are in hard on the Hyman... The rumour is that Van, Edm and Calgary are frontrunners.

 

Apparently he is looking for 6M years per by 7 years.

[conundrumed]

He can look for whatever he wants.lol

7 x 6 isn't realistic.

[cross16]

I’ve said this before but I could see the flames doing a full court press of Hyman. He checks literally every box of what they need and are looking for in a player. It won’t be a good deal, no high profile UFa signings are, but I could see them doing it. 
 

I don’t think he’s going to get anywhere near the term that’s being thrown out there thought. That feels like an agent leaking that. 

[pikey7883]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

I heard today on the Fan960 that we are in hard on the Hyman... The rumour is that Van, Edm and Calgary are frontrunners.

 

Apparently he is looking for 6M years per by 7 years.

 

24 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I’ve said this before but I could see the flames doing a full court press of Hyman. He checks literally every box of why they need and are looking for in a player. It won’t be a good deal, no high profile UFa signings are, but I could see them doing it. 
 

I don’t think he’s going to get anywhere near the term that’s being thrown out there thought. That feels like an agent leaking that. 

I think all of this is true, and I think Hyman is a fantastic player who is about to cash in somewhere. I’m terrified that it’s going to be in a flames uniform and be another black mark signing in 2 years time. Like cross said, he’s the player we want, 4 years too late (age wise).

[Thebrewcrew]

Hyman absolutely feels like a Flames target.

 

I think he'll get the money or he'll get the term.

 

Either way, if he's going to end up in Calgary it won't be cheap.

 

I actually think he ends up in Edmonton playing on McDavid's line. Goes from playing with Matthews, gets a raise and then gets to play with McDavid. Not too bad.

I have no doubt Edmonton will go hard after him with 5+ on a 6 or 7 year deal. Likely a NTC if not NMC. 

[travel_dude]

27 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Hyman absolutely feels like a Flames target.

 

I think he'll get the money or he'll get the term.

 

Either way, if he's going to end up in Calgary it won't be cheap.

 

I actually think he ends up in Edmonton playing on McDavid's line. Goes from playing with Matthews, gets a raise and then gets to play with McDavid. Not too bad.

I have no doubt Edmonton will go hard after him with 5+ on a 6 or 7 year deal. Likely a NTC if not NMC. 

 

Does every player on the planet want to play with McD?

Seems to me they still have a tough sell to go there.

Joke of a franchise most of the time.

 

As much as it's a good target for EDM, they are literally going in the wrong direction with players.

28 year old Nuge gets 8 years.

Keith signed as a 37 year old.

38 year old Smith almost certain to get another deal.

Have interest in Hall and Hyman, both in the 29 year old range.

Instead of building with younger and mid 20's players, they are looking for guys on CPP.

[Thebrewcrew]

1 minute ago, travel_dude said:

 

Does every player on the planet want to play with McD?

Seems to me they still have a tough sell to go there.

Joke of a franchise most of the time.

 

As much as it's a good target for EDM, they are literally going in the wrong direction with players.

28 year old Nuge gets 8 years.

Keith signed as a 37 year old.

38 year old Smith almost certain to get another deal.

Have interest in Hall and Hyman, both in the 29 year old range.

Instead of building with younger and mid 20's players, they are looking for guys on CPP.

Seems to be a recent trend of AB teams bidding against one another in UFA. 

Markstrom last year. Probably Hyman this year.

 

Edmonton will have to overpay UFA's to build their forward group. They've traded so many picks that they will have a hard time doing so by trade.

 

I like Hyman, he would be be great to have, but he's going to be paid like a core player and I just don't think he's that. He's very good but probably not someone you're building a team around. His contract may look like that though. 

[The_People1]

6 hours ago, travel_dude said:

Does every player on the planet want to play with McD?

 

No.  Only washed up journeymen wingers like Steve Chiasson who needs a stats boost and a homerun contract will want to play with McDavid.  

[The_People1]

7 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Hyman absolutely feels like a Flames target.

 

He so does, indeed.

 

This team needs a Jack Eichel (or true #1 Center) and/or a #1 D to replace Giordano.  Instead, we target a 29-year-old mid-tier guy who's going to play 2nd/3rd line and eat up $6-mil-per for the next 6-years (until 35 years old).  If there's one strength of this team, then it's mid-tier 2nd/3rd liners.   Moreover, we are talking about the slowing down of Derek Ryan at 33/34 years old at $3-mil-per... what is Hyman at 33/34 at $6-mil-per?   And the main driver for his price tag is inflated stats playing with Matthews for 3-years.  Where is our Matthews to pump his stats?  Hyman is going to be a 10G 20A guy here... 

 

Hyman replaces Backlund?  Not even man.  I get we get younger but only for awhile.  It's total shortsightedness.

[travel_dude]

4 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

He so does, indeed.

 

This team needs a Jack Eichel (or true #1 Center) and/or a #1 D to replace Giordano.  Instead, we target a 29-year-old mid-tier guy who's going to play 2nd/3rd line and eat up $6-mil-per for the next 6-years (until 35 years old).  If there's one strength of this team, then it's mid-tier 2nd/3rd liners.   Moreover, we are talking about the slowing down of Derek Ryan at 33/34 years old at $3-mil-per... what is Hyman at 33/34 at $6-mil-per?   And the main driver for his price tag is inflated stats playing with Matthews for 3-years.  Where is our Matthews to pump his stats?  Hyman is going to be a 10G 20A guy here... 

 

Hyman replaces Backlund?  Not even man.  I get we get younger but only for awhile.  It's total shortsightedness.

 

I do think you undervalue Hyman.

He would be comp to Mangiapane here.

Unfortunately, the typical 29 year old is making that kind of money.

Eberle, Nuge, Hall (probably more).

The term is the real killer.

 

Backlund is only a concern because he's 33 and we still have years left at 5+m.

4 years of Hyman we are younger.

 

If we could find players with his work ethic, we would be better off.

Go to the net.

Drive the corners.

I think there are better players out there, but maybe not in FA.

We need offense, but starting with the D.

If we lose Gio we have a chance to gain offense.

Tarasenko or Laine could be targets in trades, but only if cheap.

After all, we are taking chances and getting one dimensional players.

[The_People1]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I do think you undervalue Hyman.

He would be comp to Mangiapane here.

Unfortunately, the typical 29 year old is making that kind of money.

Eberle, Nuge, Hall (probably more).

The term is the real killer.

 

Backlund is only a concern because he's 33 and we still have years left at 5+m.

4 years of Hyman we are younger.

 

If we could find players with his work ethic, we would be better off.

Go to the net.

Drive the corners.

I think there are better players out there, but maybe not in FA.

We need offense, but starting with the D.

If we lose Gio we have a chance to gain offense.

Tarasenko or Laine could be targets in trades, but only if cheap.

After all, we are taking chances and getting one dimensional players.

 

You don't pay $5.5-mil for worth ethic and energy.  That's $900k Ritchie.  For anything close to $6-mil, he's got to be capable of scoring 60-points in addition to bringing intangibles.

 

RNH is a perennial 60-point player at $5.125.  Hyman is going to be a 35-point guy getting $5.5-mil-per.  Please no.

[jjgallow]

46 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

You don't pay $5.5-mil for worth ethic and energy.  That's $900k Ritchie.  For anything close to $6-mil, he's got to be capable of scoring 60-points in addition to bringing intangibles.

 

RNH is a perennial 60-point player at $5.125.  Hyman is going to be a 35-point guy getting $5.5-mil-per.  Please no.

 

This.  Full stop.

 

I do understand the desire to fill out RW, and I do see that Hyman was once somewhat productive.

 

But we need to get past signing 30+ guys, small guys, to huge boat anchor contracts and "well Edmonton did it" is NOT a good counter-arguement.

 

Do 3 PTOs.   One of them will become just aa good a producer at league minimum cost.  Depth problem solved.

 

But our real problem is the quality first line guys.   If we are ever to have any kind of hope of solving the actual problem then we can't blow our cap on stuff like this because we're too lazy to come up with in house solutions.   We have development minutes available at RW, use them to develop some guys.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

You don't pay $5.5-mil for worth ethic and energy.  That's $900k Ritchie.  For anything close to $6-mil, he's got to be capable of scoring 60-points in addition to bringing intangibles.

 

RNH is a perennial 60-point player at $5.125.  Hyman is going to be a 35-point guy getting $5.5-mil-per.  Please no.

 

Nuge is a 60 point player when his PP stats are inflated.

Unless he's playing with a top C, he isn't that player.

Swap out Nuge for Hyman, and Hyman probably gets more 5x5 points.

 

But you missed what I was saying.  I said get a player that does what he does.  I also said we need scoring from the D. 

[robrob74]

12 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

He so does, indeed.

 

This team needs a Jack Eichel (or true #1 Center) and/or a #1 D to replace Giordano.  Instead, we target a 29-year-old mid-tier guy who's going to play 2nd/3rd line and eat up $6-mil-per for the next 6-years (until 35 years old).  If there's one strength of this team, then it's mid-tier 2nd/3rd liners.   Moreover, we are talking about the slowing down of Derek Ryan at 33/34 years old at $3-mil-per... what is Hyman at 33/34 at $6-mil-per?   And the main driver for his price tag is inflated stats playing with Matthews for 3-years.  Where is our Matthews to pump his stats?  Hyman is going to be a 10G 20A guy here... 

 

Hyman replaces Backlund?  Not even man.  I get we get younger but only for awhile.  It's total shortsightedness.

 

BT loves his 5+M third liners. He believes in depth! You pay for depth!

[travel_dude]

5 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

BT loves his 5+M third liners. He believes in depth! You pay for depth!

 

Well, I have to say that a guy that can be a top 6 C on a lot of teams is probably worth $5m.  Backlund that is.

Lucic is what he is, which is a recovery from Neal, who should have been 2 RW.

 

The criticism is valid for ending up with players for the 3rd line making that much.

The cost doesn't matter to me, if they are capable and pretty good.

Unless we had plans to overpay for some other UFA, Lucic's cost doesn't matter.

Does it prevent us from trading for a more expensive player?  Maybe, but what do we trade to get it?

Unspent cap only means anything if you use it (weaponize) to take bad contracts.

Or you actually sign players.

 

I'm not in love with the idea of paying Hyman $5m.

But, he's not a 3rd liner.

He's either a top or 2nd line winger.

In the right circumstances, he a 45+ point guy.

He ain't no Neal, so he is more likely to fit a good top 6.

And it's not like we have another RW like that.

[MP5029]

On 7/15/2021 at 10:41 PM, pikey7883 said:

 

I think all of this is true, and I think Hyman is a fantastic player who is about to cash in somewhere. I’m terrified that it’s going to be in a flames uniform and be another black mark signing in 2 years time. Like cross said, he’s the player we want, 4 years too late (age wise).

This exactly!

[Thebrewcrew]

While I wouldn't advocate giving Hyman significant term, he's not at the same point Brouwer and Neal were at.

 

Hyman doesn't have as many NHL miles on his body as either.

Neal signed with 703 games under his belt, Brouwer with 613. 

 

Hyman has only played 345 games. I know there are some durability concerns, but I don't think he's gonna fall off a cliff as quickly as Neal or Brouwer did.

 

That being said, 5 years is as long as I'd go. Frank Seravalli thinks he ends up in CGY, although there's a belief EDM is the team that would give him 42mill. Will be interesting to follow. 

[cross16]

2 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

While I wouldn't advocate giving Hyman significant term, he's not at the same point Brouwer and Neal were at.

 

Hyman doesn't have as many NHL miles on his body as either.

Neal signed with 703 games under his belt, Brouwer with 613. 

 

Hyman has only played 345 games. I know there are some durability concerns, but I don't think he's gonna fall off a cliff as quickly as Neal or Brouwer did.

 

That being said, 5 years is as long as I'd go. Frank Seravalli thinks he ends up in CGY, although there's a belief EDM is the team that would give him 42mill. Will be interesting to follow. 

Agreed. While I’m not a huge fan of going after Hyman this isn’t Brouwer or Neal. The problem with both of those guys was they were one trick ponies. Outside of scoring, which Brouwer didn’t do consistently and Neal was declining at 5on 5, they brought very little on the ice. 
Hyman is different. He’s been very consistent 5 on 5, he’s excellent away from the puck, consistently drives offense, top end PKer, and a very good fore checker. He is basically a RS/bigger version of Mangiapane and He is far from the one trick ponies that Neal and Brouwer were. 
the main risks with Hyman are age and finishing ability I think the rumors going around are just fluff and he won’t get those numbers but if you can keep it to 4-5 years and 5.5 or less I don’t think many would be upset with him as a Flames at those numbers. Anything north gets very risky and likely is a buyout waiting to happen. 

[travel_dude]

I guess who we target depends a lot on what BT is doing with the roster.

The big talk all season was needing to re-tool.

The top 6 not getting it done in playoffs and gaving a down season.

Signing Hyman isn't a retool, it's adding to a core.

 

Backlund is a very good defensive C, but age starting to catch up with him.

He hasn't really declined at all, but I find him to be less inclined to sacrifice to win battles.  He's not alone.

Monahan may have a hard time coming back from hip surgery, but he is our top scoring C.

Lindholm did well in season 1 as a C here.

Gaudreau's biggest knock is he doesn't play well defensively.

Dube was up and down, but could be getting close to a breakthrough.

Mangiapane is playing his way to the top line.

Lucic drank the fountain of youth, but is still making a ton of dumb plays.

 

The defense is a bit of a conumdrum.

Gio started bad and improved, but he's 37 and either gone or may decline further.

Tanev and Hanifin best stories, but Hanifin injured.

Ras had a drop off, and never really got his mojo back.

Valimaki criticized.

 

My point is that even signing Hyman doesn't do a thing to fix the team.

There doesn't seem to be a plan to fix the core.

Of course you may not do that before the drafts, but it seems like the talk about it subsided,

[The_People1]

11 hours ago, cross16 said:

 if you can keep it to 4-5 years and 5.5 or less I don’t think many would be upset with him as a Flames at those numbers. Anything north gets very risky and likely is a buyout waiting to happen. 

 

Anything over $3.5-mil and I would be pissed.  He is going to be a 10G 20A guy on the Flames.

[Thebrewcrew]

39 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Anything over $3.5-mil and I would be pissed.  He is going to be a 10G 20A guy on the Flames.

It depends. If he signs with the Flames, he’s gonna be a Sutter favourite. He could put up 45-50 pts in the first few seasons which would be a career high.

 

He is the type of player we as fans have all been complaining that the flames lack 

[The_People1]

12 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

It depends. If he signs with the Flames, he’s gonna be a Sutter favourite. He could put up 45-50 pts in the first few seasons which would be a career high.

 

He is the type of player we as fans have all been complaining that the flames lack 

 

He is absolutely the player we have been complaining we lack.  The price though.  It's all about the price.

 

We also lacked a Lucic before we had Lucic.

[travel_dude]

12 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Anything over $3.5-mil and I would be pissed.  He is going to be a 10G 20A guy on the Flames.

 

Backlund is 5.3m for another 3 years, taking him to 35.

Yes, he plays C and his stats are closer to 45 points average.

But, he also has played with some of our best players.

Worth 5.3m?

 

Hyman played with some of Toronto's best players, but he was not the finisher or primary setup guy.

Has pretty good shooting percentage.

Average about 2 shots per game.

Goes to the net (who does that now?).

 

I don't want to pay him 5x5, but I haven't heard about similar players available.

Granlund?  Not exactly gritty.

Trades?  Different story where we give up to get.

[travel_dude]

8 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

He is absolutely the player we have been complaining we lack.  The price though.  It's all about the price.

 

We also lacked a Lucic before we had Lucic.

 

Lucic was wahed up before we got him.

We managed to get something out of him, but it was a garbage trade.