conundrumed Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 13 hours ago, The_People1 said: I'm not a huge fan of Pitlick. I mean, we refused to pay Hathaway $1.5-mil x 4 and now we get a 29-year-old Pitlick to $1.75... and my hope is he's playing 3rd line but deep down inside, I know he's the new RW for Gaudreau-Monahan. We should have signed Hathaway too. Do you see what we've done alternatively? Sign camp invites and call them NHLers even though they're not. I think this is Sutter saying "you have to have a bottom 6 in this league to succeed". 4th line isn't a throwaway line for prospects and periphery players. It's where the muck is and if you can't match the other teams muck, you're gonna lose more than you win. 4th lines on contenders are filled with experienced NHLers that know that role. Can pk/shutdown effectively etc. Putting 8-10% of your cap into an effective 4th line is very important. It isn't a throwaway line like we've treated it. I'm really happy we got him, We need a few more players like him. Hats off to Lucic for his heart, but let's face it, I skate better than him and Ritchie. I'm glad Sutter's here, this roster is one soft mess. So while everyone wants the prized #1RW, I'm all for improving the bottom 6, and a solid backup goalie. Get a lot harder to play against, and Markstrom's amazing, get him a really good backup to support. I'd be fine with Rittich, for the record. The only problem I ever had with him was the team in front of him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pikey7883 Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 1 hour ago, conundrumed said: We should have signed Hathaway too. Do you see what we've done alternatively? Sign camp invites and call them NHLers even though they're not. I think this is Sutter saying "you have to have a bottom 6 in this league to succeed". 4th line isn't a throwaway line for prospects and periphery players. It's where the muck is and if you can't match the other teams muck, you're gonna lose more than you win. 4th lines on contenders are filled with experienced NHLers that know that role. Can pk/shutdown effectively etc. Putting 8-10% of your cap into an effective 4th line is very important. It isn't a throwaway line like we've treated it. I'm really happy we got him, We need a few more players like him. Hats off to Lucic for his heart, but let's face it, I skate better than him and Ritchie. I'm glad Sutter's here, this roster is one soft mess. So while everyone wants the prized #1RW, I'm all for improving the bottom 6, and a solid backup goalie. Get a lot harder to play against, and Markstrom's amazing, get him a really good backup to support. I'd be fine with Rittich, for the record. The only problem I ever had with him was the team in front of him. I agree with this but don’t think our bottom 6 is that bad...consider this... if our third line was: mang-backs-Dube and our fourth line was: looch-pitlick-Ritchie it gives you two very different looks of attack in your bottom 6, one is a possession line that attacks with speed, one is a heavy line that can grind the other team. It also allows Mang and Dube favourable line matchups and backs has proven time and time again he is a good mentor for the young guys, while being defensively responsible. That fourth line would be limited to 8-10 minutes a night and I would suggest most of their starts need to be o zone starts. The problem then exists in the top 6.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 23 minutes ago, pikey7883 said: I agree with this but don’t think our bottom 6 is that bad...consider this... if our third line was: mang-backs-Dube and our fourth line was: looch-pitlick-Ritchie it gives you two very different looks of attack in your bottom 6, one is a possession line that attacks with speed, one is a heavy line that can grind the other team. It also allows Mang and Dube favourable line matchups and backs has proven time and time again he is a good mentor for the young guys, while being defensively responsible. That fourth line would be limited to 8-10 minutes a night and I would suggest most of their starts need to be o zone starts. The problem then exists in the top 6.... I see a soft 3rd line and 2/3 on the 4th that are below average skaters. I don't question Mangia and Dube's compete levels, just everyone else's at fwd. But they are soft. Love Dube, he's so crafty. Mangia needs to be in the top 6 imho. Barring moves, there is room there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 I actually thought the bottom 6 was a major problem for the team last year. I can understand the argument of the top 6 and needing more impact players but I also don’t think that’s happening. Flames need to have all lines contribution and they got very little out of their bottom 6 last year and basically nothing from their 4th line. Can’t afford that based on how they are built and how Sutter coaches. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 The holes are obvious. We have 5 guys that can play in the top 6, but Monahan is a big question mark. I think he could bounce back, but that's not a given. We don't have the RW top make one of the lines really good. Once Mangiapane is on the top 6, it starts to look a bit shaky. Lucic is too slow to really benefit Backlund. Dube could be due a breakout, but tying him to Lucic seems backwards. Pitlick is a smart choice for depth. What else do we have? Some prospects that are more suited for middle 6 than 4th line. Ricthie, who is at best a part time player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 2 hours ago, travel_dude said: The holes are obvious. We have 5 guys that can play in the top 6, but Monahan is a big question mark. I think he could bounce back, but that's not a given. We don't have the RW top make one of the lines really good. Once Mangiapane is on the top 6, it starts to look a bit shaky. Lucic is too slow to really benefit Backlund. Dube could be due a breakout, but tying him to Lucic seems backwards. Pitlick is a smart choice for depth. What else do we have? Some prospects that are more suited for middle 6 than 4th line. Ricthie, who is at best a part time player. I don't question Monahan at all, outside of health. He's a good 1C, his 2 way game improved with Sutter. When we were the comeback kids under Hartley, he was the guy scoring big goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 6 minutes ago, conundrumed said: I don't question Monahan at all, outside of health. He's a good 1C, his 2 way game improved with Sutter. When we were the comeback kids under Hartley, he was the guy scoring big goals. That's all I am talking about with Monahan; his health. Of all the players from the core, only him, Gaudreau and Tkachuk seem to be mentioned as trades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 Not UFA, but I'd be a fan of acquiring Dvorak. He'd give us options, and he's a smart player hiding in the turmoil that is Arizona. If not Chychrun.lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 Back to FA....will Galchenyuk be cheap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, conundrumed said: Not UFA, but I'd be a fan of acquiring Dvorak. He'd give us options, and he's a smart player hiding in the turmoil that is Arizona. If not Chychrun.lol And there is some talk about our interest in him in trade. I'm not sure how we do it without involving draft picks though. Also, I have no idea what ARI is trying to do anymore. They have tons of draft picks this and next year. But they seem content in trading for cap dumps. Garland and Dvorak and maybe Schmaltz (not in that order) would be my interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 1 minute ago, conundrumed said: Back to FA....will Galchenyuk be cheap? He was $1m last year, right? Wouldn't Toronto just re-sign him for that or a slight bump? Not like they are bringing back Jumbo Joe. Or at least shouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 7 minutes ago, travel_dude said: He was $1m last year, right? Wouldn't Toronto just re-sign him for that or a slight bump? Not like they are bringing back Jumbo Joe. Or at least shouldn't. I'd buck that to $1.7ish for 2. My basis for that is due to having an exceptional coach.In Suttter I trust. Back in my day, Coaches spit chew juice on you and smacked any player in the head for no reason, closest target. Most of them are now mgrs. Then there's Quenneville and Sutter. Exactly what this team needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted July 23, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 https://flamesnation.ca/2021/07/22/2021-flames-ufa-targets-alexander-edler/ apparently in 2019 the Flames had huge interest in Edler and we apparently offered a lot. Not sure what the prices we’d have paid if it went through. The Flames wanted an Edler extension in the process… maybe Edler is a guy we’d go after on a cheaper than Gio deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 24 minutes ago, robrob74 said: https://flamesnation.ca/2021/07/22/2021-flames-ufa-targets-alexander-edler/ apparently in 2019 the Flames had huge interest in Edler and we apparently offered a lot. Not sure what the prices we’d have paid if it went through. The Flames wanted an Edler extension in the process… maybe Edler is a guy we’d go after on a cheaper than Gio deal. it makes a lot of sense at the right price. He’s still effective and can provide a nice bridge to Valimaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted July 23, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 1 hour ago, cross16 said: it makes a lot of sense at the right price. He’s still effective and can provide a nice bridge to Valimaki ya, and sometimes players like it when teams have tried to attain their rights in the past. Shows a desire for the player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted July 23, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 2 hours ago, cross16 said: it makes a lot of sense at the right price. He’s still effective and can provide a nice bridge to Valimaki what do you think would be the right price? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 40 minutes ago, robrob74 said: what do you think would be the right price? I’d be more weary if term than $s. Can’t be more than 2 years and I would think AAV of around 4 or less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted July 23, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 10 minutes ago, cross16 said: I’d be more weary if term than $s. Can’t be more than 2 years and I would think AAV of around 4 or less. that was the price I was thinking about too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP5029 Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 4 hours ago, robrob74 said: https://flamesnation.ca/2021/07/22/2021-flames-ufa-targets-alexander-edler/ apparently in 2019 the Flames had huge interest in Edler and we apparently offered a lot. Not sure what the prices we’d have paid if it went through. The Flames wanted an Edler extension in the process… maybe Edler is a guy we’d go after on a cheaper than Gio deal. No thanks! I think trading a 2nd for Bean in Car (which is the rumoured price) would be a far better move and he could prob be signed for less than 4? And he’s a Cgy boy too…I think Sutter would love that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebrewcrew Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 9 minutes ago, MP5029 said: No thanks! I think trading a 2nd for Bean in Car (which is the rumoured price) would be a far better move and he could prob be signed for less than 4? And he’s a Cgy boy too…I think Sutter would love that! The issue with Jake Bean is the family ties to the Flames. His dad is president and CEO of the Flames. Bit of an awkward dynamic if they bring his son in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sak22 Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 28 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said: The issue with Jake Bean is the family ties to the Flames. His dad is president and CEO of the Flames. Bit of an awkward dynamic if they bring his son in Can be put to rest either way Edit: The 2nd rounder was #44 this year that was acquired in the Jones trade our 2nd is #45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 24, 2021 Report Share Posted July 24, 2021 1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said: The issue with Jake Bean is the family ties to the Flames. His dad is president and CEO of the Flames. Bit of an awkward dynamic if they bring his son in I didn't make the connection. Yeah, that would have been weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP5029 Posted July 24, 2021 Report Share Posted July 24, 2021 14 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said: The issue with Jake Bean is the family ties to the Flames. His dad is president and CEO of the Flames. Bit of an awkward dynamic if they bring his son in Hardly, they drafted Sutters son back when he was GM/coach so I can’t see this being any worse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sak22 Posted July 24, 2021 Report Share Posted July 24, 2021 1 hour ago, MP5029 said: Hardly, they drafted Sutters son back when he was GM/coach so I can’t see this being any worse Brett Sutter was a 6th round pick and nothing more than an occasional callup. When you have RFA's that go to the wire in negotiations, if the CEO's son doesn't have the same issues there could be problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP5029 Posted July 24, 2021 Report Share Posted July 24, 2021 2 hours ago, sak22 said: Brett Sutter was a 6th round pick and nothing more than an occasional callup. When you have RFA's that go to the wire in negotiations, if the CEO's son doesn't have the same issues there could be problems. I disagree, if anything the CEO’s son would be less likely…when’s the last time you have seen or heard of an nhl team CEO be involved in any part of hockey operations? Never, they are money management, infrastructure planning etc…heck, he’s probably never know his son was on the team till later at the dinner table… anyway, I would have been fully on board, a good player at a good price who cares…player management is all coach and GM stuff doubt there would be any issues whatsoever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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