2021 Calgary Flames NHL Draft

[travel_dude]

3 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Well when you said our D situation is in even worse shape,  we have lots of common ground there.

 

I would not be disappointed about drafting a D.  Particularly rhs, but really any D.

 

I mean to be blunt, our F,D,G pipeline is bleak all around.  Not much different than  a blank slate.  Given that, I think you ideally build it from the net out.

 

We already know we're going  to get great forwards in 2022-2023.    But not so sure about D and G.

 

That's why I actually see this draft as an opportunity.    And if we got a D, I would not be disappointed.   Forwards....I would be.

 

As liable to trade for or sign a starter in 3-5 years as draft one.

We've drafted a few 1st rounders in G.

Name one we had much success with.

The majority of our 1st round picks at C, F and D have become everyday NHL'ers, Feaster not withstanding.

 

Let's just go down the road a bit with drafting Cossa (assuming it's not a wasted pick at 10-12).

His body of work is really 1.5 seasons at junior.

Only this year has he gotten over .921.

 

We get an equivalent player to Mangia[pane or Dube at F, you would be disappointed?

Sheesh, tough to please.

Is one of the D-men available at 10-13 trending towards being the next Jones?

Would you really draft a D-man rated well below the forwards because you want a D?

 

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

As liable to trade for or sign a starter in 3-5 years as draft one.

We've drafted a few 1st rounders in G.

Name one we had much success with.

The majority of our 1st round picks at C, F and D have become everyday NHL'ers, Feaster not withstanding.

 

Let's just go down the road a bit with drafting Cossa (assuming it's not a wasted pick at 10-12).

His body of work is really 1.5 seasons at junior.

Only this year has he gotten over .921.

 

We get an equivalent player to Mangia[pane or Dube at F, you would be disappointed?

Sheesh, tough to please.

Is one of the D-men available at 10-13 trending towards being the next Jones?

Would you really draft a D-man rated well below the forwards because you want a D?

 

 

Name ANY first rounder out of the top 10 we've had success with.

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00005090.html

 

(and our record in the top 10 is actually worse when you consider what was possible).

 

I don't see how goaltending stands out, we've been pretty non-discriminatory in our poor choices.

 

Yes I would be incredibly disappointed if they became an everyday NHLer because those are readily available and it defeats the purpose of the draft.    And you will be disappointed too I think when you see what some of the other players turn into.

 

Yes, there are defenceman and goalies in this draft poised to become impact players on Stanley cup winning teams.

 

These are some of the best defenceman and goalies available in years.   Although I would have liked last year's goalie admittedly. 

 

I've compared and yes there are defenceman within our range that would go top 5 in a normal draft year.

[The_People1]

5 hours ago, cross16 said:

So while sure you can make the argument the Flames don't prioritize it (which I think is weak personally because it depends on how the board falls) this idea they don't value RS is false. RWs and in particular RS RW is he shallowest position in hockey.

 

Flames don't prioritize it.  You said it yourself the Flames just draft as the players fall to them and as a result get average stats as you also pointed out.

 

No one saying they neglect it or purposely favour LHS LW.  They should start though because RHS are so valuable.  If they don't draft them then it's hard to find them in trade and UFA.  But no problems filling LHS later via trade and UFA.

 

Go all in RHS and if they only get 1 NHLer, then so be it.  No problems finding LHS in UFA and trades.

[Thebrewcrew]

I really like Cossa, I think he's better than a few goalies that have been 1st rounders in recent years. Oettinger, M. Subban, similar size and skilleset to Knight.

 

I'm just not taking him with that Flames pick and to be honest, I don't see the team doing it. I don't know if management is comfortable enough in their job security to take a G, who knows though. If the Flames were to land an additional 1st, then I'd absolutely consider it though.

 

I think the Flames will end up with a Lysell/McTavish/Lucius/Sillinger with their pick.

[jjgallow]

23 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Flames don't prioritize it.  You said it yourself the Flames just draft as the players fall to them and as a result get average stats as you also pointed out.

 

No one saying they neglect it or purposely favour LHS LW.  They should start though because RHS are so valuable.  If they don't draft them then it's hard to find them in trade and UFA.  But no problems filling LHS later via trade and UFA.

 

Go all in RHS and if they only get 1 NHLer, then so be it.  No problems finding LHS in UFA and trades.

 

RHS is for sure more valuable.   The question is how much.

 

In the case of the Flames, they are a LOT more valuable but we've distorted things lol.

 

I was totally fine with their strategy of just drafting BPA but I had assumed that positions would be evened out through subsequent trades.   We could have, they had value.   But we never did.

 

Was weird.

[The_People1]

27 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I really like Cossa, I think he's better than a few goalies that have been 1st rounders in recent years. Oettinger, M. Subban, similar size and skilleset to Knight.

 

I'm just not taking him with that Flames pick and to be honest, I don't see the team doing it. I don't know if management is comfortable enough in their job security to take a G, who knows though. If the Flames were to land an additional 1st, then I'd absolutely consider it though.

 

I think the Flames will end up with a Lysell/McTavish/Lucius/Sillinger with their pick.

 

I've seen some rank Cossa top 10 this draft so it's not a reach, albeit, always ranked after Wallstedt but it's that kind of draft.  Cossa has the talent if that's what you are concerned about.

 

If you don't take Cossa with that pick because you think we won't take time, then agreed.  We won't.  I'm just saying we should.

 

If you saying we shouldn't, then I disagree.  We really should.  He's a good prospect with star potential.  We won't get a skater with star potential at #10 out of that group you mentioned.

[jjgallow]

22 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I really like Cossa, I think he's better than a few goalies that have been 1st rounders in recent years. Oettinger, M. Subban, similar size and skilleset to Knight.

 

I'm just not taking him with that Flames pick and to be honest, I don't see the team doing it. I don't know if management is comfortable enough in their job security to take a G, who knows though. If the Flames were to land an additional 1st, then I'd absolutely consider it though.

 

I think the Flames will end up with a Lysell/McTavish/Lucius/Sillinger with their pick.

 

I hear you I like him too and I also admittedly share the concerns although I would personally support taking a goalie.

 

The question is....are we sure that Wallstedt is out of reach?

 

I'm not sure that he is.  It only takes a couple teams that thing this same way and he's at our doorstep.

[The_People1]

5 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

RHS is for sure more valuable.   The question is how much.

 

In the case of the Flames, they are a LOT more valuable but we've distorted things lol.

 

I was totally fine with their strategy of just drafting BPA but I had assumed that positions would be evened out through subsequent trades.   We could have, they had value.   But we never did.

 

Was weird.

 

For sure in the first round, the talent gap is large so take BPA... But by round two, man, every prospect has holes.  Reach for some RHS there.  RW and RD especially.

[Thebrewcrew]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

 

I hear you I like him too and I also admittedly share the concerns although I would personally support taking a goalie.

 

The question is....are we sure that Wallstedt is out of reach?

 

I'm not sure that he is.  It only takes a couple teams that thing this same way and he's at our doorstep.

I think Wallstedt is better than Cossa. I also can see him being available if the Flames are in that 10-12 range. Teams I could see taking Wallstedt are OTT, LA and DET.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

I've seen some rank Cossa top 10 this draft so it's not a reach, albeit, always ranked after Wallstedt but it's that kind of draft.  Cossa has the talent if that's what you are concerned about.

 

If you don't take Cossa with that pick because you think we won't take time, then agreed.  We won't.  I'm just saying we should.

 

If you saying we shouldn't, then I disagree.  We really should.  He's a good prospect with star potential.  We won't get a skater with star potential at #10 out of that group you mentioned.

I like Cossa, the 10-12 range is just a touch early for me though. If I was BT and he was my guy, I'd look to slide back a few spots and pick up an asset. Get some extra swings at the plate. That being said, I wouldn't be too upset if they took him in that 10-12 range. He has the tools teams covet.

 

Will the Flames spend a first on a G though? Like you said, they should take a long look at it. I just don't know if they will and to be honest, I feel like Cole Sillinger will be the pick, There are a lot of similarities between him and Zary/Pelletier/Dube/Mangiapane. This management group has a type and Sillinger is the type of player they seem to covet. 

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, jjgallow said:

Name ANY first rounder out of the top 10 we've had success with.

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00005090.html

 

(and our record in the top 10 is actually worse when you consider what was possible).

 

 

Let me simplify it for you.

We should be drafting between 10 and 12.

You want to pick Cossa there.

I talked about having luck with first round picks and really in the last 10 years only Tkachuk, Monahan, and Bennett are in that range.  Maybe Baertschi.  Other than the Feaster later picks and Janko, everyone of the 1st have become NHL players.  Bennett the most perplexing, but still a NHL player that we could have used in the top 6.  Baertschi's career disintegrated.

 

You have been pretty vocal to draft Cossa.  Build from the net out.

Somehow Wolf is not even as good as Cossa, so need to draft Cossa.

I disagree.

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Let me simplify it for you.

We should be drafting between 10 and 12.

You want to pick Cossa there.

I talked about having luck with first round picks and really in the last 10 years only Tkachuk, Monahan, and Bennett are in that range.  Maybe Baertschi.  Other than the Feaster later picks and Janko, everyone of the 1st have become NHL players.  Bennett the most perplexing, but still a NHL player that we could have used in the top 6.  Baertschi's career disintegrated.

 

You have been pretty vocal to draft Cossa.  Build from the net out.

Somehow Wolf is not even as good as Cossa, so need to draft Cossa.

I disagree.

 

Please see my comments above in previous replies.   I think Cossa is a good choice if we fall back in the draft because we decide to be heroes and win the last few meaningless games like we often do.

 

If we're in the 10-12 range then Cossa is not the BPA and I don't believe in going out of BPA order.  Nor do I believe in downgrading.   In your scenario of 10-12 range I would take Wallstedt if he became available.  And if he became available he would be BPA.   Likelihood of him becoming available are pretty good as many teams are ...yes...spooked of drafting goalies early.

 

In terms of the Feaster later picks, that is most of our picks because, well, he was our GM.   We're not getting a Tkachuk or Monahan or Bennett in this draft.   We're getting someone similar to those Feaster picks or Janko if we take a forward.   And our record there is not good.

 

Again, when you compare that with the ability to get a premiere defencemen I don't even know how this becomes a debate.

 

Let me simplify it for you:

 

• Pick a forward, get a player with a Dube-like ceiling
• Pick a defenceman, get a player with a Giordano-like ceiling
• Pick a goalie, get a goalie with a 1A starting ceiling.

 

I don't even see how forwards are part of the debate so I think the only possible explanation is you have a much different view of the defencemen in this draft.   I'm happy to discuss that.

[jjgallow]

3 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

For sure in the first round, the talent gap is large so take BPA... But by round two, man, every prospect has holes.  Reach for some RHS there.  RW and RD especially.

 

Agreed, if they have similar ceilings.   If the RW has one extra flaw but similar potential, you probably go with him in later rounds.

[cross16]

13 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Flames don't prioritize it.  You said it yourself the Flames just draft as the players fall to them and as a result get average stats as you also pointed out.

 

No one saying they neglect it or purposely favour LHS LW.  They should start though because RHS are so valuable.  If they don't draft them then it's hard to find them in trade and UFA.  But no problems filling LHS later via trade and UFA.

 

Go all in RHS and if they only get 1 NHLer, then so be it.  No problems finding LHS in UFA and trades.

so if you aren’t pulling NHLers out of the draft how do you plan to make those trades? Give up more picks? Good players are hard to come by no matter what hand then shoot. Think it’s easy to acquire someone like Mangiapane? Or cheap?

 

I know we won’t agree on this but I firmly believe the approach to the draft should be to prioritize talent and potential above all else. I think prioritizing RS over LS makes sense just so long as it doesn’t infringe on the first priority. Pulling 1 NHLer out of every draft is not how you build a sustainable product or a winner. 

 

[MP5029]

10 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Please see my comments above in previous replies.   I think Cossa is a good choice if we fall back in the draft because we decide to be heroes and win the last few meaningless games like we often do.

 

If we're in the 10-12 range then Cossa is not the BPA and I don't believe in going out of BPA order.  Nor do I believe in downgrading.   In your scenario of 10-12 range I would take Wallstedt if he became available.  And if he became available he would be BPA.   Likelihood of him becoming available are pretty good as many teams are ...yes...spooked of drafting goalies early.

 

In terms of the Feaster later picks, that is most of our picks because, well, he was our GM.   We're not getting a Tkachuk or Monahan or Bennett in this draft.   We're getting someone similar to those Feaster picks or Janko if we take a forward.   And our record there is not good.

 

Again, when you compare that with the ability to get a premiere defencemen I don't even know how this becomes a debate.

 

Let me simplify it for you:

 

• Pick a forward, get a player with a Dube-like ceiling
• Pick a defenceman, get a player with a Giordano-like ceiling
• Pick a goalie, get a goalie with a 1A starting ceiling.

 

I don't even see how forwards are part of the debate so I think the only possible explanation is you have a much different view of the defencemen in this draft.   I'm happy to discuss that.

Yup this is a bit high on expectations, I don’t see a Gio type D that low but maybe  a Tanev type which we can definitely use another...

 

bottom line this is a D draft year so you have to be smart and take the best D available, I think there are only 1-3 forwards even ranked in the top 20 or so and 1 G in the 10-20 range and we do have Wolf so this is not the draft for that.

 

2022 draft is where to really look at Fwd’s and some are saying 2023 but from what I can tell it’s not as deep a draft but has a few top tier, where as 2022 has depth and some top tier fwds.

 

if anything I’d probably try and grab a few more picks for 2022/2023 years, I mean depending on what you can get by either trading down some and or trades...again if there is not much talent difference in picking a D at say 2 vs picking a similar D at 20 why not load up for a draft where you need some forwards, which we totally do need.

[travel_dude]

10 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Please see my comments above in previous replies.   I think Cossa is a good choice if we fall back in the draft because we decide to be heroes and win the last few meaningless games like we often do.

 

If we're in the 10-12 range then Cossa is not the BPA and I don't believe in going out of BPA order.  Nor do I believe in downgrading.   In your scenario of 10-12 range I would take Wallstedt if he became available.  And if he became available he would be BPA.   Likelihood of him becoming available are pretty good as many teams are ...yes...spooked of drafting goalies early.

 

In terms of the Feaster later picks, that is most of our picks because, well, he was our GM.   We're not getting a Tkachuk or Monahan or Bennett in this draft.   We're getting someone similar to those Feaster picks or Janko if we take a forward.   And our record there is not good.

 

Again, when you compare that with the ability to get a premiere defencemen I don't even know how this becomes a debate.

 

Let me simplify it for you:

 

• Pick a forward, get a player with a Dube-like ceiling
• Pick a defenceman, get a player with a Giordano-like ceiling
• Pick a goalie, get a goalie with a 1A starting ceiling.

 

I don't even see how forwards are part of the debate so I think the only possible explanation is you have a much different view of the defencemen in this draft.   I'm happy to discuss that.

 

The only team real question is whether VAN wins and passes us or we win 2 of 3 to pass CHI, since ARI doesn't get a pick.

Not a big swing in the standings or draft order.

Other than a lotto team passing us, which is as remote as winning it ourselves.

 

10th overall if VAN passes us.

11th overall if we win 1 game.

12th overall if we win 2 games.

 

I may have mixed up your comments about Cossa.  I thought you were saying he would go at least by 12, or I got that from the Wolf thread.  Doesn't matter.  If you believe Wally is better and we should not touch Cossa unless we drafted like 15th to 20th, then I won't really dispute that ranking for now. 

 

I not going to bother with the debate on the BPA available at our range.  It's going to be anywhere from 1st to something after our current 11th overall rank depending on lotto.  If it's a D, C, or W then whatever, only matters if there is a marginal upside to one over another.  If it's Wally, then I'm sure our Euro scouts will have a good handle on if he is worth the pick or not.

    

[jjgallow]

4 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

The only team real question is whether VAN wins and passes us or we win 2 of 3 to pass CHI, since ARI doesn't get a pick.

Not a big swing in the standings or draft order.

Other than a lotto team passing us, which is as remote as winning it ourselves.

 

10th overall if VAN passes us.

11th overall if we win 1 game.

12th overall if we win 2 games.

 

I may have mixed up your comments about Cossa.  I thought you were saying he would go at least by 12, or I got that from the Wolf thread.  Doesn't matter.  If you believe Wally is better and we should not touch Cossa unless we drafted like 15th to 20th, then I won't really dispute that ranking for now. 

 

I not going to bother with the debate on the BPA available at our range.  It's going to be anywhere from 1st to something after our current 11th overall rank depending on lotto.  If it's a D, C, or W then whatever, only matters if there is a marginal upside to one over another.  If it's Wally, then I'm sure our Euro scouts will have a good handle on if he is worth the pick or not.

    

 

I did not realize it was that close.  I do think we misunderstood each other on a coupe points yes.

 

In this case I would not pick Cossa with our first.   But I would HAPPILY trade for a later first, and pick him up, if we don't get Wallstedt.

Sadly, I'm not going to get all the players I want.

 

So you know how I feel about the forwards, and we talk enough about goalies already, but I will just say that I am Very high on Wallstedt and I if you look at his WJC performance, while small sample size, we're looking at a guy who performs better than Askarov did.    Then you look at how he holds his own in the SHL.   It's VERY much comparable to what Askarov did in the KHL.   If he drops, we take him with a big smile IMHO.  And he very likely will.

 

Now the defencemen I think is where we have the biggest misunderstanding.

https://www.tsn.ca/craig-s-list-defencemen-dominate-top-of-nhl-draft-prospect-rankings-1.1638404

 

Please note Craig Button has placed all top 4 D, in the top 4 overall.   I am in the camp that agrees with this.  And that's where we misunderstand each other.

 

Most scouting reports do Not have these guys so high, so we can expect one of them to drop to us (or Wallstedt), just by math they have to.

But, when you compare their stats to goalies in previous draft years,  putting them in top 4 isn't high enough.

 

All four of these guys blow away Sanderson and Drsydale, the prized possessions of the 2020 draft.  It's not even a contest.

 

2019?  Byram and Seider don't come close.  Not even close.  With any of them.

 

You've got to go to 2018 with Dahlin.  And then the rest of the 2018 D are nowhere close.  How close are these D to Dahlin?  I think more than one of them are comparable.

 

With all that, I think a number of other D have dropped more than they should.

Corson Ceulemans looked every bit as good as Brandt Clarke in the WJC-18.

 

I think Button kept him lower in his rankings possibly after being burnt hard by Janko in the AJHL.       But Ceulemans stats are only just a hair below what Cale Makar's were in that league.    

 

Yeah I said that right, we have D in the mid-first-round of this draft that you can compare, to an extent, with Cale Makar.

 

That's ...pretty deep.

 

First rounders are cheap this year because teams are dumb.   If I were the Flames I'd be acquiring all sorts of first round picks, scoop up at least 2 first-round D, a first-round G, and be 1/3 done the rebuild before going into the 22/23 drafts which have the best forwards in years.

 

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

I did not realize it was that close.  I do think we misunderstood each other on a coupe points yes.

 

In this case I would not pick Cossa with our first.   But I would HAPPILY trade for a later first, and pick him up, if we don't get Wallstedt.

Sadly, I'm not going to get all the players I want.

 

So you know how I feel about the forwards, and we talk enough about goalies already, but I will just say that I am Very high on Wallstedt and I if you look at his WJC performance, while small sample size, we're looking at a guy who performs better than Askarov did.    Then you look at how he holds his own in the SHL.   It's VERY much comparable to what Askarov did in the KHL.   If he drops, we take him with a big smile IMHO.  And he very likely will.

 

Now the defencemen I think is where we have the biggest misunderstanding.

https://www.tsn.ca/craig-s-list-defencemen-dominate-top-of-nhl-draft-prospect-rankings-1.1638404

 

Please note Craig Button has placed all top 4 D, in the top 4 overall.   I am in the camp that agrees with this.  And that's where we misunderstand each other.

 

Most scouting reports do Not have these guys so high, so we can expect one of them to drop to us (or Wallstedt), just by math they have to.

But, when you compare their stats to goalies in previous draft years,  putting them in top 4 isn't high enough.

 

All four of these guys blow away Sanderson and Drsydale, the prized possessions of the 2020 draft.  It's not even a contest.

 

2019?  Byram and Seider don't come close.  Not even close.  With any of them.

 

You've got to go to 2018 with Dahlin.  And then the rest of the 2018 D are nowhere close.  How close are these D to Dahlin?  I think more than one of them are comparable.

 

With all that, I think a number of other D have dropped more than they should.

Corson Ceulemans looked every bit as good as Brandt Clarke in the WJC-18.

 

I think Button kept him lower in his rankings possibly after being burnt hard by Janko in the AJHL.       But Ceulemans stats are only just a hair below what Cale Makar's were in that league.    

 

Yeah I said that right, we have D in the mid-first-round of this draft that you can compare, to an extent, with Cale Makar.

 

That's ...pretty deep.

 

First rounders are cheap this year because teams are dumb.   If I were the Flames I'd be acquiring all sorts of first round picks, scoop up at least 2 first-round D, a first-round G, and be 1/3 done the rebuild before going into the 22/23 drafts which have the best forwards in years.

 

 

I don't trust Button at all.

I think he gets some thing close to right, but I find he gets star struck too often.

Falls for somthing and completely thows away any oother evidence.

 

Below is a more balanced list:

https://flamesnation.ca/2021/04/21/2021-nhl-draft-consensus-ranking-april/

 

Overall, I would say the top 10 is reasonable, not necessarily the right order.

You look at Craig's list (name alone should make you pause LOL), and L'Heureux is 8th?

I don't trust the Q unless they are a standout.

 

I'm sure teams will gladly trade you a first this year for a 1st next year.

Other than that we aren't getting any low ones for a song.

And it's not a rebuild so you won't see Gaudreau for a late first (extra for some teams).

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

I don't trust Button at all.

I think he gets some thing close to right, but I find he gets star struck too often.

Falls for somthing and completely thows away any oother evidence.

 

Below is a more balanced list:

https://flamesnation.ca/2021/04/21/2021-nhl-draft-consensus-ranking-april/

 

Overall, I would say the top 10 is reasonable, not necessarily the right order.

You look at Craig's list (name alone should make you pause LOL), and L'Heureux is 8th?

I don't trust the Q unless they are a standout.

 

I'm sure teams will gladly trade you a first this year for a 1st next year.

Other than that we aren't getting any low ones for a song.

And it's not a rebuild so you won't see Gaudreau for a late first (extra for some teams).

 

I don't trust Button either lol, but there Is worse out there.

 

So in your list, it's possible to see Edvinsson fall to us (and defencemen do fall more than forwards because teams are dumb)

I've seen other lists where that's Brandt.  It's all over the map.

 

In Edvinsson you have a player already contributing in the SHL.   In a year where extra talent has flooded into the SHL.

 

When's the last time that happened?   Dahlin is when.  Literally Dahlin.  and their numbers aren't That different.   Now factor in Edvinsson's significant size advantage over Dahlin.

 

Maybe I'm overshooting, fair I'll stop myself.   You want a fair level comparison, it's Adam Boqvist except a 6'5 version of him insead of a 5'11 version of him.

 

Literally that.

 

We can do comparisons all day, Any of these 4 defencemen are beyond good and the defencemen below them are Really good too.

 

My goal here is Not to put Craig Button on a pedastal lol.   But these D are next level good and when you compare them to what's available in forward positions it is laughable.

 

Would trade Gaudreau in heart.  Beat. lol.   This is also the one thing I didn't like about the Bennett trade, we should have done package deal for a firsty.

[Thebrewcrew]

Lets have some fun.

I ran a lotto simulator. DET picks 1, NJ picks 2. The Flames are at 11th.

 

Let's say the board falls like this

1. DET- Owen Power

2. NJ- Luke Hughes

3. BUF- Matthew Beniers

4. ANA- William Eklund

5. SEA- Brandt Clarke

6. CBJ- Dylan Guenther

7. SJ- Kent Johnson

8. LA- Simon Edvinsson

9. VAN- Fabian Lysell

10. OTT- Mason McTavish

 

 

What would you do at 11th in this scenario? I think I'd go Wallstedt, even though I'm typically not big in 1st round goalies. Curious to see what others would do

[The_People1]

12 hours ago, cross16 said:

so if you aren’t pulling NHLers out of the draft how do you plan to make those trades? Give up more picks? Good players are hard to come by no matter what hand then shoot. Think it’s easy to acquire someone like Mangiapane? Or cheap?

 

I know we won’t agree on this but I firmly believe the approach to the draft should be to prioritize talent and potential above all else. I think prioritizing RS over LS makes sense just so long as it doesn’t infringe on the first priority. Pulling 1 NHLer out of every draft is not how you build a sustainable product or a winner. 

 

I don't think we're far off in theory.  I'm not saying we pull 1 NHLer out of every draft.  Of course not.  What I'm saying is when the gap is not huge, go for the RHS.  It's not an extreme view here.

[The_People1]

33 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Lets have some fun.

I ran a lotto simulator. DET picks 1, NJ picks 2. The Flames are at 11th.

 

Let's say the board falls like this

1. DET- Owen Power

2. NJ- Luke Hughes

3. BUF- Matthew Beniers

4. ANA- William Eklund

5. SEA- Brandt Clarke

6. CBJ- Dylan Guenther

7. SJ- Kent Johnson

8. LA- Simon Edvinsson

9. VAN- Fabian Lysell

10. OTT- Mason McTavish

 

 

What would you do at 11th in this scenario? I think I'd go Wallstedt, even though I'm typically not big in 1st round goalies. Curious to see what others would do

 

Of course Wallstedt.  If he's gone by #11 then Cossa.  

[robrob74]

On 5/14/2021 at 6:21 PM, The_People1 said:

 

Flames don't prioritize it.  You said it yourself the Flames just draft as the players fall to them and as a result get average stats as you also pointed out.

 

No one saying they neglect it or purposely favour LHS LW.  They should start though because RHS are so valuable.  If they don't draft them then it's hard to find them in trade and UFA.  But no problems filling LHS later via trade and UFA.

 

Go all in RHS and if they only get 1 NHLer, then so be it.  No problems finding LHS in UFA and trades.

 

isnt that the thing, a successful draft is one or two nhlers? If you draft 7 RHS  you’re hopefully going to get 1-2 out of them. I have to ask, how do other teams get RHS NHLers? 

[Sarasti]

I tend to look at Tampa as a good model of how to draft and develop talent.

Some of their best players were picked after the 1st round and just developed really well. 

The thing they always seem to do though is go BPA. Regardless of handedness or size or other intangibles. 

Guys that can skate and straight-up play the game the proper way.

[travel_dude]

17 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

I don't trust Button either lol, but there Is worse out there.

 

So in your list, it's possible to see Edvinsson fall to us (and defencemen do fall more than forwards because teams are dumb)

I've seen other lists where that's Brandt.  It's all over the map.

 

In Edvinsson you have a player already contributing in the SHL.   In a year where extra talent has flooded into the SHL.

 

When's the last time that happened?   Dahlin is when.  Literally Dahlin.  and their numbers aren't That different.   Now factor in Edvinsson's significant size advantage over Dahlin.

 

Maybe I'm overshooting, fair I'll stop myself.   You want a fair level comparison, it's Adam Boqvist except a 6'5 version of him insead of a 5'11 version of him.

 

Literally that.

 

We can do comparisons all day, Any of these 4 defencemen are beyond good and the defencemen below them are Really good too.

 

My goal here is Not to put Craig Button on a pedastal lol.   But these D are next level good and when you compare them to what's available in forward positions it is laughable.

 

Would trade Gaudreau in heart.  Beat. lol.   This is also the one thing I didn't like about the Bennett trade, we should have done package deal for a firsty.

 

If any of those 4 you talk about are available, then fine.

Even if they go later, they are still off the board when time comes for us.

Even if teams are dumb, they can still evaluate talent.

At least one team will draft on position.

Another will use moneyball.

 

Trading Gaudreau and Bennett for FLA's 1st?  That's sad.

[cross16]

15 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

I don't think we're far off in theory.  I'm not saying we pull 1 NHLer out of every draft.  Of course not.  What I'm saying is when the gap is not huge, go for the RHS.  It's not an extreme view here.

And I would say it’s how the flames operate at least based on comments and their drafting history.