Darryl Sutter new head coach

[travel_dude]

11 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Nah.  If Lindholm doesn't extend long term, then you already know what we're going to do.

 

We will trade him for a 31 year old superstar Center who will and give him 8-years.

 

6 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Lindholm is priority #1 absolutely.  And it has to be done early so there's time the rest of the summer to fix the rest of the roster... or to do a complete tear down.  Worst case is the Flames and Lindholm drag this out until training camp and there's no time to pivot to other options.

 

I think there is zero chance we move on from Lindholm.  He may ask for a trade, but I would only expect that if we are heading down the Sutter gritty team, collect all the former cup winners from a decade ago.  He saw the team go from two top 6 wingers to a top 6 winger that wouldn't play with him and a 2C that replaced nothing lost.

 

There were things we could have done to improve the team this past summer, but Lucic kinda put the boots to that.  Being forced to trade Monahan instead, set us back.  AT the least, he could have been a middle 6 player and we still get Kadri.  Just that is an improvement over doing nothing else.  Trade both Lucic and Monahan, and you have almost an extra $6M available to improve the team.  Hold off untill Monahan is shown to perform, and he isn't giving away a 1st.  

 

I think the most logical thing would have been to convince Lucic to retire.  Offer him a job that allows him to save his dignity.  He hasn't this year otherwise.  Everyone knew that was the outcome.  

[The_People1]

5 hours ago, travel_dude said:

Kadri made a costly turnover Saturday, so yeah I can see him losing minutes.

But he was also called out in the presser.

 

It's a garbage move by Sutter because everyone can see it was Pelletier who screwed up that play.  Kadri was man-to-man on the forecheck and Pelletier came off the bench and went in to support Kadri for no reason and left his man wide open for the 2-on-1.  Then Saturday, Kadri gets benched for OT.

 

Was Kadri supposed to switch off and missed the assignment?  Was he supposed to line change and stayed out too long?  I mean, COMMUNICATE is all Kadri is asking.

[travel_dude]

5 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I mean, how do we go from Coach of The Year to multiple players coming out and showing frustration at the coach?  And yet the one person with near pure immunity in the organization is Sutter himself because he was hand picked by the owners.  What a mess.

 

Kadri is signed for 7 years.  Unless Sutter is pushing his buttons to waive his NMC... I mean, Kadri needs to be made a special player inside the inner circle and leadership group.  He's going to be here for a very long time. 

 

It's easier to be a coach of the year, when the top 3 has been clicking since they came together.

Monahan used to be the 3rd of the top unit.

Replacing him with Tkachuk wasn't genious, it was the reality of losing Monahan to injuries.

Sutter villified the roster by calling them less skilled.

Changed the game to be more greasy goals and shot volume.

Hit the net and fight for rebounds.  The 3 feet in front of the crease.

Take away a passer like Gaudreau and replace him with anyone but Huberdeau.

Replace Tkachuk with more of a sniper.

 

It is any wonder the team looks as bad as it does?

[The_People1]

2 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

 

I think there is zero chance we move on from Lindholm.  He may ask for a trade, but I would only expect that if we are heading down the Sutter gritty team, collect all the former cup winners from a decade ago.  He saw the team go from two top 6 wingers to a top 6 winger that wouldn't play with him and a 2C that replaced nothing lost.

 

There were things we could have done to improve the team this past summer, but Lucic kinda put the boots to that.  Being forced to trade Monahan instead, set us back.  AT the least, he could have been a middle 6 player and we still get Kadri.  Just that is an improvement over doing nothing else.  Trade both Lucic and Monahan, and you have almost an extra $6M available to improve the team.  Hold off untill Monahan is shown to perform, and he isn't giving away a 1st.  

 

I think the most logical thing would have been to convince Lucic to retire.  Offer him a job that allows him to save his dignity.  He hasn't this year otherwise.  Everyone knew that was the outcome.  

 

It's not our choice though.  He's going to go UFA and we lose him for nothing so... Lindholm is going to choose for us.  He's too valuable of a piece to let him go like Gaudreau.  Even if he asks for $9.5-mil+, I think the Flames have to bite their lip and sign him.  If it's going to cost $10.5-mil x 8-years, then I think the Flames get him signed and deal with the cap problems rather than lose him and deal with a 5-year rebuild.

[travel_dude]

4 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

It's a garbage move by Sutter because everyone can see it was Pelletier who screwed up that play.  Kadri was man-to-man on the forecheck and Pelletier came off the bench and went in to support Kadri for no reason and left his man wide open for the 2-on-1.  Then Saturday, Kadri gets benched for OT.

 

Was Kadri supposed to switch off and missed the assignment?  Was he supposed to line change and stayed out too long?  I mean, COMMUNICATE is all Kadri is asking.

 

No, I was actually talking about the Dallas game.

The weak pass at the blueline which (IIRC) resulted in a goal.

That's why he didn't play any OT.

[The_People1]

Just now, travel_dude said:

 

No, I was actually talking about the Dallas game.

The weak pass at the blueline which (IIRC) resulted in a goal.

That's why he didn't play any OT.

 

Ya whatever play it was, it seems nobody told Kadri and he's left scratching his head and frustrated.

[jjgallow]

12 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

It's a garbage move by Sutter because everyone can see it was Pelletier who screwed up that play.  Kadri was man-to-man on the forecheck and Pelletier came off the bench and went in to support Kadri for no reason and left his man wide open for the 2-on-1.  Then Saturday, Kadri gets benched for OT.

 

Was Kadri supposed to switch off and missed the assignment?  Was he supposed to line change and stayed out too long?  I mean, COMMUNICATE is all Kadri is asking.

 

I am just really loving you guys lately lol.

 

Hey.  

 

Can't get much worse, so once we get past the frustration...   maybe things can get good in here again

But before things get better I'm Really tempted to make an unconditional negativity thread lol

[The_People1]

3 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

I am just really loving you guys lately lol.

 

Hey.  

 

Can't get much worse, so once we get past the frustration...   maybe things can get good in here again

But before things get better I'm Really tempted to make an unconditional negativity thread lol

 

Except it's not negative at all... more like, "big picture focused".  Lose today to win tomorrow.... and we never lose.  We learn.

[jjgallow]

5 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Except it's not negative at all... more like, "big picture focused".  Lose today to win tomorrow.... and we never lose.  We learn.

 

that's the only thread I ever wanted

[medatswhoP]

One solution no is bringing up is the fact a "Team Captain" has a huge role to keep the communications open between Coaching and the players in leading by example, hammering on hard work ethic and defining what's missing or what's working.  Its one piece of the chain where our link is missing and its a very important role.

Lots of great discussions in here and to mull over, I never throw the towel in but I agree look at the whole picture, if we fail this year what can we do next season, time to start moving forward with thinking its all positive in here agreeing and disagreeing is how you grow.

my .05 cents.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

 

I am just really loving you guys lately lol.

 

Hey.  

 

Can't get much worse, so once we get past the frustration...   maybe things can get good in here again

But before things get better I'm Really tempted to make an unconditional negativity thread lol

 

I do think we are just relaying the frustration of a not well coached team.

Yes, we have some roster problems, but made worse by coaching.

[pikey7883]

24 minutes ago, medatswhoP said:

One solution no is bringing up is the fact a "Team Captain" has a huge role to keep the communications open between Coaching and the players in leading by example, hammering on hard work ethic and defining what's missing or what's working.  Its one piece of the chain where our link is missing and its a very important role.

Lots of great discussions in here and to mull over, I never throw the towel in but I agree look at the whole picture, if we fail this year what can we do next season, time to start moving forward with thinking its all positive in here agreeing and disagreeing is how you grow.

my .05 cents.

I agree 💯. A couple of months before Sutter was hired as the coach, it felt like the team had no identity. We weren’t hard to play against, we didn’t have world beater speed. We were very meh. I said at the time that they needed to trade Gio and bring in a strong coach to lead the team, to be their unofficial captain and give this team an identity. Maybe Sutter got lucky last year with having two players have career years, but it felt like we were trending in the right direction. And IMO the identity they were hoping to build was around Tkachuk, in your face hard nosed hockey, gritty, greasy, grind down the other team blue collar hockey. But when him and Johnny left town, I think the rails came off. I have not agreed with some of the decisions Sutter has made this year, but I trust that he can still carve an identity out of this team and when he does, they need to elect a captain, and now. 

[redfire11]

4 hours ago, conundrumed said:

No 3rd option?lol

You're no fun anymore.

Man I could use a third option!!

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, medatswhoP said:

One solution no is bringing up is the fact a "Team Captain" has a huge role to keep the communications open between Coaching and the players in leading by example, hammering on hard work ethic and defining what's missing or what's working.  Its one piece of the chain where our link is missing and its a very important role.

Lots of great discussions in here and to mull over, I never throw the towel in but I agree look at the whole picture, if we fail this year what can we do next season, time to start moving forward with thinking its all positive in here agreeing and disagreeing is how you grow.

my .05 cents.

 

Ya we need someone to emerge as the new leader of this team.  I don't think Kadri is a leader because he is such a "me first" type of personality.   Huberdeau, Lindholm, and Tanev seem too quiet.  Backlund has been here the longest but he's never the face of the franchise.  Lucic has respect but he's not on this team much longer.  Pelletier... too young still.  Dube and Mange are more secondary guys.  Sean Monahan was probably the closest captain material we've had but his career has been cut short by injuries.  We had to trade him away.

 

Another things is, I feel captains should be home grown.  Drafted, developed, and graduated from within.  So, we're really missing this element. 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ya we need someone to emerge as the new leader of this team.  I don't think Kadri is a leader because he is such a "me first" type of personality.   Huberdeau, Lindholm, and Tanev seem too quiet.  Backlund has been here the longest but he's never the face of the franchise.  Lucic has respect but he's not on this team much longer.  Pelletier... too young still.  Dube and Mange are more secondary guys.  Sean Monahan was probably the closest captain material we've had but his career has been cut short by injuries.  We had to trade him away.

 

Another things is, I feel captains should be home grown.  Drafted, developed, and graduated from within.  So, we're really missing this element. 

 

Really the guy that stands out for me is Ras.

Maybe he's not a captain, but he is more clear with his words than most of the team.

Who else is there?

 

I was trying to think if we have seen Pelletier, Ruzie and Duehr all play the same game.

Can't say it has happened.

Sit Lucic, gotta play Lewis.

Sit Ritchie, gotta play Lucic.

Play Ruzicka, gotta have Lewis.

 

It's a shame to see a team that had a real chance at making the playoffs get ground into the ice by bad decisions.

Anyone thinking Markstrom should play 8 or 9 in a row was fooling themselves.

Energy brought from the kids snuffed out becuase they made mistakes and got sat.

Gotta learn kid by eating popcorn.

Give Markstrom the keys, because he was such a star all year.

10 games in a row with a record of 4-4-2.

About par with our win % from the entire year.

 

[jjgallow]

10 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I do think we are just relaying the frustration of a not well coached team.

Yes, we have some roster problems, but made worse by coaching.

 

Maybe.   But we said that about the last coach, and the coach before that.  And the coach before that.  All under BT.

 

https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/flames

 

There's a lot here I don't see Darryl fixing.   And even more in our prospect pool.

 

But hey.  Do I care if BT switches another coach in?    Not reallly.  No harm in trying.   Sure give it a go.   

 

But at some point...lol...  and that point is coming soon...

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

 

Maybe.   But we said that about the last coach, and the coach before that.  And the coach before that.  All under BT.

 

https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/flames

 

There's a lot here I don't see Darryl fixing.   And even more in our prospect pool.

 

But hey.  Do I care if BT switches another coach in?    Not reallly.  No harm in trying.   Sure give it a go.   

 

But at some point...lol...  and that point is coming soon...

 

Yes, poor coaching choices, no doubt.

 

[JTech780]

I am not going to say that Sutter is the reason this team has underacheived, because there are a lot of star players on this team that need to take a long hard look in the mirror for their own performances this year. When you look at the advanced stats, this team is doing everything it should be on paper to be a playoff team. Goaltending is probably the main area that hasn't lived up to expectations this year and that is tough for a team and a coach to overcome.

 

With all that being said it feels like there is a major disconnect between management, the coaching staff and the players. The team as constructed doesn't really match the identity that the coach likes to employ, with that come friction between coach and players, because players are being asked to do things that don't play to their strengths. 

 

They can replace Treliving and they can replace Sutter very easily. Replacing Huberdeau, Kadri, Markstrom and Weegar that isn't soomething that can be accomplished easily. IMO they need to bring in a coach that can maximize the current roster, that isn't Sutter. 

 

Treliving is another conversation, I don't think he has done a bad job, but I also think it might be time for a restructuring at the top. I think they need to hire a President of Hockey Operations, maybe even promote Don Maloney to that role. If they aren't bringing Treliving back, maybe its time to give Conroy a chance.

 

The coach I would bring in to replace Sutter is Mitch Love, he has been outstanding in the AHL.

[cross16]

14 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

I mean, how do we go from Coach of The Year to multiple players coming out and showing frustration at the coach?  And yet the one person with near pure immunity in the organization is Sutter himself because he was hand picked by the owners.  What a mess.

 

Kadri is signed for 7 years.  Unless Sutter is pushing his buttons to waive his NMC... I mean, Kadri needs to be made a special player inside the inner circle and leadership group.  He's going to be here for a very long time. 

 

I'm not in the room of course but from afar I haven't seen the same Darryl Sutter this year. Last year we was surprisingly positive. He seemed to do a good job of playing that "we aren't supposed to be good" card and it worked really well. He hardly ever spoke negatively about his team/players in the media because he was too busy telling the media to shove it when they were playing well. 

 

This year I found it was the opposite. Right from the start he was pretty negative. Talking about how they were less skilled, didn't have the same depth, no one stood out in camp and then they got into the season he never seemed to have a plan. Even on BarnBuner, guys like Sarich and Warrener have commented about how they are seeing things in Sutter they've never seen before. I mean the flames were playing great to star the season and he overhauled the lines. The weird fascination with Lucic. The PP, both in terms of strategy and combos, has not made sense all year but they'd done nothing about it. Not using Huberdeau on 3 on 3, no using Weegar on PP or 3 on 3, not playing his best players appropriate ice time. 

 

I said this about a month into the season and I'm still thinking it, what is the game plan here? What type of team are the Flames trying to be, what do they want to achieve on their PP? The "why" behind what they do or want to do I haven't seen all year so it's not surprising to hear that players would be struggling with it too. 

 

but I mean it's also fair to point out this is Darryl Sutter and the most players don't like playing for him especially after a while. I'm betting, and I've heard this, that alot of players had concerns last year but the feeling is a whole lot different when your winning. 

[cross16]

46 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

I am not going to say that Sutter is the reason this team has underacheived, because there are a lot of star players on this team that need to take a long hard look in the mirror for their own performances this year. When you look at the advanced stats, this team is doing everything it should be on paper to be a playoff team. Goaltending is probably the main area that hasn't lived up to expectations this year and that is tough for a team and a coach to overcome.

 

With all that being said it feels like there is a major disconnect between management, the coaching staff and the players. The team as constructed doesn't really match the identity that the coach likes to employ, with that come friction between coach and players, because players are being asked to do things that don't play to their strengths. 

 

They can replace Treliving and they can replace Sutter very easily. Replacing Huberdeau, Kadri, Markstrom and Weegar that isn't soomething that can be accomplished easily. IMO they need to bring in a coach that can maximize the current roster, that isn't Sutter. 

 

Treliving is another conversation, I don't think he has done a bad job, but I also think it might be time for a restructuring at the top. I think they need to hire a President of Hockey Operations, maybe even promote Don Maloney to that role. If they aren't bringing Treliving back, maybe its time to give Conroy a chance.

 

The coach I would bring in to replace Sutter is Mitch Love, he has been outstanding in the AHL.

 

it sounds like I'm against firing Treliving but that's not really the case I just don't think it's going to do any good. Hiring Conroy is an upgrade Why? What's Conroy going to do differently and better than Treliving?

 

For years now the organization has had to take a hard look at itself and decide what it wants to accomplish here and until they do that I just don't think the coach/GM are the issue or the point. I think if they are serious about winning a cup then they need a president of hockey ops and they should go outside the org for that. Fresh set of eyes, someone who doesn't have ties to the owners (Burke did through Bettman) so I would not be in favor of Maloney.  They need a new/progressive thinker and then allow that person to set the tone and decide on Treliving. If they are fine with this direction (making the playoffs more often than not but not really reaching contending status) that I personally don't see the point in firing Treliving as I think the odds are the replacement is worse and not better. 

 

If they choose the playoffs route then I just don't see how Sutter can coach the team next year. I am in agreement that the primary reason they are going to miss is goaltending but at the end of the day by now you should see some progress. You should see things clicking, you should see the coach understanding his players etc etc and you are seeing the opposite. I don't see how an off season can correct that. 

 

I'd also probably just hire Mitch Love if I were the Flames. 

[JTech780]

5 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

it sounds like I'm against firing Treliving but that's not really the case I just don't think it's going to do any good. Hiring Conroy is an upgrade Why? What's Conroy going to do differently and better than Treliving?

 

For years now the organization has had to take a hard look at itself and decide what it wants to accomplish here and until they do that I just don't think the coach/GM are the issue or the point. I think if they are serious about winning a cup then they need a president of hockey ops and they should go outside the org for that. Fresh set of eyes, someone who doesn't have ties to the owners (Burke did through Bettman) so I would not be in favor of Maloney.  They need a new/progressive thinker and then allow that person to set the tone and decide on Treliving. If they are fine with this direction (making the playoffs more often than not but not really reaching contending status) that I personally don't see the point in firing Treliving as I think the odds are the replacement is worse and not better. 

 

If they choose the playoffs route then I just don't see how Sutter can coach the team next year. I am in agreement that the primary reason they are going to miss is goaltending but at the end of the day by now you should see some progress. You should see things clicking, you should see the coach understanding his players etc etc and you are seeing the opposite. I don't see how an off season can correct that. 

 

I'd also probably just hire Mitch Love if I were the Flames. 

 

I don't disagree about Treliving, I am just of the mindset that at this point it will probably be a mutual decision to move on. I would also agree that having people come from outside the organization would be the way to go. Maloney has been in the hockey world for a long time and is very respected in that world, that's the main reason I suggested him. Conroy also has been interviewed for a lot of other jobs so he just seemed like a logical choice, but your points are very valid.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Yes, poor coaching choices, no doubt.

 

Were they though? Weren't the flames at the top of the league in possession all those years and everyone felt they only needed Goaltending?

 

I think it has been the full roster. We had holes and where we didn't, the players that were good enough had holes between their ears in some ways. I always felt we didn't finish retooling or building. The vision is off. Are they just guys with skillets thrown into a Roster blender? I dunno if there is enough there to ever have put us over the edge. Playoffs, maybe. A round, maybe. Never a cup.

[cross16]

13 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

I don't disagree about Treliving, I am just of the mindset that at this point it will probably be a mutual decision to move on. I would also agree that having people come from outside the organization would be the way to go. Maloney has been in the hockey world for a long time and is very respected in that world, that's the main reason I suggested him. Conroy also has been interviewed for a lot of other jobs so he just seemed like a logical choice, but your points are very valid.

 

And I will say that my expectation is that they do move on and I would suspect if that happens Conroy will be the replacement. I don't thikn the owners are as upset as some fans so I don't think they will see the need to upset the apple cart sort to speak. 

 

I just don't think it's the right direction and I don't think it will lead to and improvement. 

[jjgallow]

4 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

And I will say that my expectation is that they do move on and I would suspect if that happens Conroy will be the replacement. I don't thikn the owners are as upset as some fans so I don't think they will see the need to upset the apple cart sort to speak. 

 

I just don't think it's the right direction and I don't think it will lead to and improvement. 

 

what do you see as the best direction?

 

new owners?   let BT make more decisions?

 

I know I bash BT a lot but I'm not close enough to it to know better.  Just curious.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

I am not going to say that Sutter is the reason this team has underacheived, because there are a lot of star players on this team that need to take a long hard look in the mirror for their own performances this year. When you look at the advanced stats, this team is doing everything it should be on paper to be a playoff team. Goaltending is probably the main area that hasn't lived up to expectations this year and that is tough for a team and a coach to overcome.

 

With all that being said it feels like there is a major disconnect between management, the coaching staff and the players. The team as constructed doesn't really match the identity that the coach likes to employ, with that come friction between coach and players, because players are being asked to do things that don't play to their strengths. 

 

They can replace Treliving and they can replace Sutter very easily. Replacing Huberdeau, Kadri, Markstrom and Weegar that isn't soomething that can be accomplished easily. IMO they need to bring in a coach that can maximize the current roster, that isn't Sutter. 

 

Treliving is another conversation, I don't think he has done a bad job, but I also think it might be time for a restructuring at the top. I think they need to hire a President of Hockey Operations, maybe even promote Don Maloney to that role. If they aren't bringing Treliving back, maybe its time to give Conroy a chance.

 

The coach I would bring in to replace Sutter is Mitch Love, he has been outstanding in the AHL.

I don't think the players per se are the problem. Maybe part way? In my mind, the holes are too many. The mix is wrong for the skill sets, like two sides of a magnet when you put them together. They repel each other. That seems to be Kadri and Huberdeau and Huberdeau on Lindholm's line. Does that mean Huberdeau is broken? Maybe it is the system? Maybe he is not in the right system as he has to think more defensively than before, but he still doesn't have guys to pass to.

 

I watched a few games last year, and the way Florida moved was amazing. Guys actually don't skate in a straight line up the ice in one lane. Guys weren't shooting just to add to the shot totals. 
 

also, there doesn't seem to be a guy who goes to the tough areas and that makes us a perimeter team. So to me, it's a holistic problem, not enough of what makes the team whole, and the coach not reacting to work with what he has.