2019-2020 Training Camp

[The_People1]

7 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

It isn’t but we don’t need to keep having the same debate. 

 

It is.  Brodie is a 3rd pair talent who benefited from Giordano.

[cross16]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

It is.  Brodie is a 3rd pair talent who benefited from Giordano.

 

I understand that's your opinion but literally nothing is out there that supports it. 

But again we've debated it enough so I don't suspect it's going to change. 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

I understand that's your opinion but literally nothing is out there that supports it. 

But again we've debated it enough so I don't suspect it's going to change. 

 

Brodie - Prout looked just as good as Kylington - Prout/Fantenberg.  And going back to Brodie - Hamonic.  More than no evidence.

 

Anyways, I hope we trade both Brodie and Frolik to save cap and give the young guys ice time.

[JTech780]

 

Is Dube the place holder for Mangiapane or is Czarnik?

 

Edit: I know it's still early, but it sure looks like Rieder and MacDonald are being given more of an opportunity to make this team. Can't say I would mind either one on this team to start the season.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

 

Is Dube the place holder for Mangiapane or is Czarnik?

 

Edit: I know it's still early, but it sure looks like Rieder and MacDonald are being given more of an opportunity to make this team. Can't say I would mind either one on this team to start the season.

 

Rieder was one of the fittest guys.

We could use the speed on this team, but I don't see offense being a big thing for him.

AMac is as much a NHL body for the split squad games as anything, but they do seem to b giving him a chance.

I don;t think he's any worse than Stone.

Is he an upgrade on Kylington?

I don't see it.  More experienced and a better sense of shutdown hockey, but foot speed is suspect.

 

I don't see Mangiapane fitting in with Lucic, but I really don't see any great fit for Lucic.

Maybe Ryan and Frolik?  Maybe Janko and Dube (RW)?

 

With the currect crop of players and RFA's, I can see the following rough lines based on MHO.

JH-MOnahan-Lindy

Tkachuk-Backlund-Bennett

Mangiapane-Ryan-Frolik

Lucic-Janko-Dube

Quine-Rieder

 

That depends a lot on what Rieder does pre-season.  Czarnik could be there over Quine for sure.

Bennett needs to take the opportunity right now and show he's top 6.

If not, he'll get Janko or Ryan as a C.  And Lucic as a winger.

[JTech780]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Rieder was one of the fittest guys.

We could use the speed on this team, but I don't see offense being a big thing for him.

AMac is as much a NHL body for the split squad games as anything, but they do seem to b giving him a chance.

I don;t think he's any worse than Stone.

Is he an upgrade on Kylington?

I don't see it.  More experienced and a better sense of shutdown hockey, but foot speed is suspect.

 

I don't see Mangiapane fitting in with Lucic, but I really don't see any great fit for Lucic.

Maybe Ryan and Frolik?  Maybe Janko and Dube (RW)?

 

With the currect crop of players and RFA's, I can see the following rough lines based on MHO.

JH-MOnahan-Lindy

Tkachuk-Backlund-Bennett

Mangiapane-Ryan-Frolik

Lucic-Janko-Dube

Quine-Rieder

 

That depends a lot on what Rieder does pre-season.  Czarnik could be there over Quine for sure.

Bennett needs to take the opportunity right now and show he's top 6.

If not, he'll get Janko or Ryan as a C.  And Lucic as a winger.

 

MacDonald's strength has always been his mobility, so I wouldn't say that it is suspect. I mean Kylington is the better skater, but Kylington is a better skater than most of the NHL. Kylington looked fine last season, but let's be honest he wasn't put in situations where he was seeing real NHL talent, he was given largely offensive zone starts against other teams 4th lines, while playing under 13mins a night. MacDonald gives us more depth and puts Kylington back to being an injury call up, which is where he belongs right now. With Kylington on the team you have one guy that you can't give a regular shift too, and that puts extra stress on the rest of the defense.

[robrob74]

3 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

MacDonald's strength has always been his mobility, so I wouldn't say that it is suspect. I mean Kylington is the better skater, but Kylington is a better skater than most of the NHL. Kylington looked fine last season, but let's be honest he wasn't put in situations where he was seeing real NHL talent, he was given largely offensive zone starts against other teams 4th lines, while playing under 13mins a night. MacDonald gives us more depth and puts Kylington back to being an injury call up, which is where he belongs right now. With Kylington on the team you have one guy that you can't give a regular shift too, and that puts extra stress on the rest of the defense.

 

 

Yup, you have to see whether Kylington was able to take a step this year before he is a regular. I liked some things I saw, but he hasn’t been consistent enough to take the bull by the horns. He needs to be more sure of himself and maybe that comes with age?

 

he needs an Andersson rookie type season to show he’s ready .

[JTech780]

Mangiapane signed his qualifying offer.

[kehatch]

3 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Mangiapane signed his qualifying offer.

 

Lesson learned.  When you are a 6 round pick with 54 games and 13 points (and no arbitration rights) you just sign your QO offer and you don't skip the beginning of camp.  Winter did not act in Mangiapane's best interest in this negotiation. The hold out never made sense.  

[cross16]

Mangiapane should look for a new agent. He got some horrible advice. 

[redfire11]

26 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Mangiapane should look for a new agent. He got some horrible advice. 

Does anyone have any insight on the original offer to Mangiapane or was that it?

[cross16]

20 minutes ago, redfire11 said:

Does anyone have any insight on the original offer to Mangiapane or was that it?

 

It was this. Mangiapane signed his qualifying offer that the flames gave him in June. 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, kehatch said:

 

Lesson learned.  When you are a 6 round pick with 54 games and 13 points (and no arbitration rights) you just sign your QO offer and you don't skip the beginning of camp.  Winter did not act in Mangiapane's best interest in this negotiation. The hold out never made sense.  

 

I suppose Mangiapane thought that Lucic would not be added for Neal, so there was a chance money would be freer.

That didn;t happen.

If the team is not offering anything more than the QO, I don;t understand why the agent bothered holding out.

It doesn't make sense.

 

[conundrumed]

On 9/14/2019 at 5:21 PM, The_People1 said:

 

Agreed.

 

But we should trade both.

Totally disagree.

So. You'd lose the Calder winning 1st paring. And break up the 3M line?

Has anyone really thought this through? lol

My vote is a bridge deal. But, his Dad is Big Walt so...

[The_People1]

4 hours ago, JTech780 said:

Mangiapane signed his qualifying offer.

 

Great news.  BT held strong.  Mangiapane had no negotiating leverage and had to fold his hand.  Hopefully he comes into this season and proves he is a full time NHLer.

[The_People1]

25 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Totally disagree.

So. You'd lose the Calder winning 1st paring. And break up the 3M line?

Has anyone really thought this through? lol

My vote is a bridge deal. But, his Dad is Big Walt so...

 

Cap problems so...

 

Frolik is a $3-mil guy now.  Still good but he's not what he used to be.  Don't get emotional.  Just trade him.  Either for a $1-mil guy who can produce at $3-mil or someone from within to emerge.

 

Brodie.... He's the classic pumped value guy playing with Giordano.  Like Dougie Hamilton.  Trade him while his perceived value is a top pair RD.  He's so average when with someone else. 

[The_People1]

4 hours ago, cross16 said:

Mangiapane should look for a new agent. He got some horrible advice. 

 

Did he though?  Mangiapane got no worse in trying the stunt.  

[Zirakzigil]

On 9/14/2019 at 3:24 PM, The_People1 said:

 

It is.  Brodie is a 3rd pair talent who benefited from Giordano.

Ahh.... Remember the good ole days when you and I were arguing about how we should of traded Brodie to the Jackets for Carter? You hated that idea because of Brodie's "potential." Pepperridge farm remembers. Now you've come full circle on Brodie. 😛

[Cowtownguy]

35 minutes ago, Zirakzigil said:

Ahh.... Remember the good ole days when you and I were arguing about how we should of traded Brodie to the Jackets for Carter? You hated that idea because of Brodie's "potential." Pepperridge farm remembers. Now you've come full circle on Brodie. 😛

Wow man, I even remember that Pepperidge Farm commercial(s). 

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Did he though?  Mangiapane got no worse in trying the stunt.  

I think the point was that if his agent was holding out then his agent wasnt thinking in Manges best interest.  A good agent would have at least realized in time that the team was not going to budge either because of cap space or even principle. All that agent did was cost Mange a few days of camp and maybe a less favorable look when renegotiation time comes next year.

[Carty]

36 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said:

Wow man, I even remember that Pepperidge Farm commercial(s). 

 

 

[cross16]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Did he though?  Mangiapane got no worse in trying the stunt.  

 

While horrible might be too strong a word having your client miss training camp and skates with the team only to sign the same deal you could have months ago is far from good advice. 

 

[kehatch]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Did he though?  Mangiapane got no worse in trying the stunt.  

 

He missed the first few days of camp, will miss the first preseason game, and made everybody (coach, fans, GM, players) pay attention to him for the wrong reasons. Not to mention the distraction he created for himself. 

 

End of the world? No. But he is starting his "prove it" season behind and has nothing to show for it. 

 

He had zero leverage. Missing a second of camp was a poor decision that his agent should have guided him away from. 

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, Zirakzigil said:

Ahh.... Remember the good ole days when you and I were arguing about how we should of traded Brodie to the Jackets for Carter? You hated that idea because of Brodie's "potential." Pepperridge farm remembers. Now you've come full circle on Brodie. 😛

 

Touche.  Brodie and Carter have both had good careers but Carter has the edge with the Cups. 

 

Though, not that Carter has blown Brodie away.  At peak Brodie was a second pair talent and Carter only became a 2nd line Center.  But Carter is the better overall player.  It's sad how fast Brodie has trended down.  

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

I think the point was that if his agent was holding out then his agent wasnt thinking in Manges best interest.  A good agent would have at least realized in time that the team was not going to budge either because of cap space or even principle. All that agent did was cost Mange a few days of camp and maybe a less favorable look when renegotiation time comes next year.

 

58 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

While horrible might be too strong a word having your client miss training camp and skates with the team only to sign the same deal you could have months ago is far from good advice. 

 

 

8 minutes ago, kehatch said:

 

He missed the first few days of camp, will miss the first preseason game, and made everybody (coach, fans, GM, players) pay attention to him for the wrong reasons. Not to mention the distraction he created for himself. 

 

End of the world? No. But he is starting his "prove it" season behind and has nothing to show for it. 

 

He had zero leverage. Missing a second of camp was a poor decision that his agent should have guided him away from. 

 

Missed a preseason game to bluff for $200k and an effective 1-way deal, kind of worth it though.  Now he's a risk to start the season in AHL due to Flames over the cap after Tkachuk signs.  It might not even matter how he performs in preseason even if he signed months ago.