2019-2020 Training Camp

[JTech780]

 

[The_People1]

40 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

 

Great news.

 

Hopefully Eetu Tuulola is in even better shape.  I think we need one of the two to make the team to bring a heavy game on the 4th line.

[Horsman1]

interesting to note the today, on Treliving interview,, he mentions 4 new pto offers to camp.. but then adds.. you'll see in the next day or two we've also something happening up front as well as on the backend..

[ABC923]

10 minutes ago, Horsman1 said:

interesting to note the today, on Treliving interview,, he mentions 4 new pto offers to camp.. but then adds.. you'll see in the next day or two we've also something happening up front as well as on the backend..

Here's hoping a Tkachuk deal is finally nearing completion.  Probably another PTO coming for the backend, we need a bit more competition for the 6/7 spots.

[The_People1]

15 minutes ago, Horsman1 said:

interesting to note the today, on Treliving interview,, he mentions 4 new pto offers to camp.. but then adds.. you'll see in the next day or two we've also something happening up front as well as on the backend..

 

Cryptic... but not surprising.  The math tells us $7.75-mil remaining on the cap to sign Tkachuk, Mangiapane, and bring in a 7th Dman.  The math doesn't add up.  Someone has to go.

[Thebrewcrew]

I think Smith-Pelly/Reider will have a legit shot at cracking the team on the 4th line RW.

 

I wouldn't mind to see the following lines, this is assuming that Janko and Czarnik are cap casualties

Gaudreau-Monahan-Bennett

Tkachuk-Backlund-Lindholm

Lucic-Ryan-Frolik

Mangiapane-Dube-Smith-Pelly

 

Historically guys who have played with 13 and 23 have produced, regardless of skill level, Colborne, Hudler, Feland.. Moving Lindholm to the Backlund line, and Frolik to line 3, gives this team greater depth throughout the lineup. 

[travel_dude]

4 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Great news.

 

Hopefully Eetu Tuulola is in even better shape.  I think we need one of the two to make the team to bring a heavy game on the 4th line.

 

Would love to see the cherub make the team.

He's nasty enough.

He's built for the NHL.

I think he's got some skills.

 

1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I think Smith-Pelly/Reider will have a legit shot at cracking the team on the 4th line RW.

 

I wouldn't mind to see the following lines, this is assuming that Janko and Czarnik are cap casualties

Gaudreau-Monahan-Bennett

Tkachuk-Backlund-Lindholm

Lucic-Ryan-Frolik

Mangiapane-Dube-Smith-Pelly

 

Historically guys who have played with 13 and 23 have produced, regardless of skill level, Colborne, Hudler, Feland.. Moving Lindholm to the Backlund line, and Frolik to line 3, gives this team greater depth throughout the lineup. 

 

I though that Reider would be a steal last season for the Oilers.

I have no idea why he was unable to score a single goal there.

Then again, the bottom 6 only scored 47 goals, good for last in the NHL.

I have no idea of where we would use him.

Would have to alternate with Czarnik or Dube I guess.

 

DSP might have a chance, but might be a better fit for the April team over the October team (ThePeople's two team concept).

 

Regarding placement of players, I think you would be doing the tem a disservice by playing Mangiapane on the 4th line.

I read where he had one of the highest g/60 rates from All Star break onwards.

Very strong finish to the year. 

[robrob74]

3 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I think Smith-Pelly/Reider will have a legit shot at cracking the team on the 4th line RW.

 

I wouldn't mind to see the following lines, this is assuming that Janko and Czarnik are cap casualties

Gaudreau-Monahan-Bennett

Tkachuk-Backlund-Lindholm

Lucic-Ryan-Frolik

Mangiapane-Dube-Smith-Pelly

 

Historically guys who have played with 13 and 23 have produced, regardless of skill level, Colborne, Hudler, Feland.. Moving Lindholm to the Backlund line, and Frolik to line 3, gives this team greater depth throughout the lineup. 

 

Hudler produced without them. He was the Flames best flame until Gaudreau’s 2nd year.

[Horsman1]

50 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

Hudler produced without them. He was the Flames best flame until Gaudreau’s 2nd year.

 

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Would love to see the cherub make the team.

He's nasty enough.

He's built for the NHL.

I think he's got some skills.

 

 

I though that Reider would be a steal last season for the Oilers.

I have no idea why he was unable to score a single goal there.

Then again, the bottom 6 only scored 47 goals, good for last in the NHL.

I have no idea of where we would use him.

Would have to alternate with Czarnik or Dube I guess.

 

DSP might have a chance, but might be a better fit for the April team over the October team (ThePeople's two team concept).

 

Regarding placement of players, I think you would be doing the tem a disservice by playing Mangiapane on the 4th line.

I read where he had one of the highest g/60 rates from All Star break onwards.

Very strong finish to the year. 

i'm actually getting a feeling that Mangiapane isn't going to be here this year.. Czarnik can play on the second line with Tkachuk and Backlund... Tkachuk.  might be looking at too much money for us to sign Mangiapane .. And a 4th line of Lucic/jankowski/ Pelle-Smith might be worth looking at.. This leaves mangiapane and frolik on the outs if our third line is bennett/ryan/dube.. this gives us our tkachuk dollars and room for a 6/7th dman to spell off Kylington.. assuming of course that Brodie is still here

 

 

[robrob74]

1 minute ago, Horsman1 said:

 

i'm actually getting a feeling that Mangiapane isn't going to be here this year.. Czarnik can play on the second line with Tkachuk and Backlund... Tkachuk.  might be looking at too much money for us to sign Mangiapane .. And a 4th line of Lucic/jankowski/ Pelle-Smith might be worth looking at.. This leaves mangiapane and frolik on the outs if our third line is bennett/ryan/dube.. this gives us our tkachuk dollars and room for a 6/7th dman to spell off Kylington.. assuming of course that Brodie is still here

 

 

 

Yeah, you never know. Mange could be on the outs.

[Horsman1]

5 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

Yeah, you never know. Mange could be on the outs.

I don't wanna put him on the forth line... Is he the best option for 2nd line right wing?? We have no roster openings for him on left wing..

[robrob74]

Just now, Horsman1 said:

I don't wanna put him on the forth line... Is he the best option for 2nd line right wing?? We have no roster openings for him on left wing..

 

Mid there’s a decent hockey deal to be made I would be all over it. I am like a few here, enamoured by his upside. Can he get to that level? I’d give it a try on the 2nd line.

[Horsman1]

2 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

Mid there’s a decent hockey deal to be made I would be all over it. I am like a few here, enamoured by his upside. Can he get to that level? I’d give it a try on the 2nd line.

yes.. this is a coach's choice type player.. If you can only keep one.. who would you keep.. Mangiapane or Czarnik.. keeping in mind trade value

 

[Thebrewcrew]

BT's comments today were interesting, typically he is non-committal on negotiations, but today he was rather forthright when asked about the Mangiapane negotiation. Only other time I can recall him commenting on a negotiation was with Kulak last year and we know how that ended up. For a guy with 13 career points, he may wanna bring his "A" game if and when he signs after taking such a firm stance, otherwise he may not be long for this organization.

 

That being said though I respect Mangiapane's decision to get what he wants as you only get so many NHL contracts, he just better be ready to back it up as it appears clear the GM isn't too happy with this negotiation

[robrob74]

24 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

BT's comments today were interesting, typically he is non-committal on negotiations, but today he was rather forthright when asked about the Mangiapane negotiation. Only other time I can recall him commenting on a negotiation was with Kulak last year and we know how that ended up. For a guy with 13 career points, he may wanna bring his "A" game if and when he signs after taking such a firm stance, otherwise he may not be long for this organization.

 

That being said though I respect Mangiapane's decision to get what he wants as you only get so many NHL contracts, he just better be ready to back it up as it appears clear the GM isn't too happy with this negotiation

 

I better go listen to it. 

[redfire11]

1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said:

BT's comments today were interesting, typically he is non-committal on negotiations, but today he was rather forthright when asked about the Mangiapane negotiation. Only other time I can recall him commenting on a negotiation was with Kulak last year and we know how that ended up. For a guy with 13 career points, he may wanna bring his "A" game if and when he signs after taking such a firm stance, otherwise he may not be long for this organization.

 

That being said though I respect Mangiapane's decision to get what he wants as you only get so many NHL contracts, he just better be ready to back it up as it appears clear the GM isn't too happy with this negotiation

I listened to the interview this morning and when BT was asked if he was waiting to sign Tkachuk before he signed Mang BT said there was no set order in which to sign the 2. This I felt was a veiled threat to Tkachuk saying we could sign Mang first leaving much less to sign Tkachuk.

[travel_dude]

9 hours ago, Horsman1 said:

 

i'm actually getting a feeling that Mangiapane isn't going to be here this year.. Czarnik can play on the second line with Tkachuk and Backlund... Tkachuk.  might be looking at too much money for us to sign Mangiapane .. And a 4th line of Lucic/jankowski/ Pelle-Smith might be worth looking at.. This leaves mangiapane and frolik on the outs if our third line is bennett/ryan/dube.. this gives us our tkachuk dollars and room for a 6/7th dman to spell off Kylington.. assuming of course that Brodie is still here

 

 

 

I know Czarnik was a UFA, but how is he worth morth than Mangiapane.

He isn;t.

 

BT isn;t going to offer a good contract with Tkachuk unsigned and Frolik's salary still an issue.

There's no real pressure for Mange to sign now.

Same for BT.

Holding out hurts nobody, whether it's BT stalling or Mange.

 

[kehatch]

8 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

That being said though I respect Mangiapane's decision to get what he wants as you only get so many NHL contracts, he just better be ready to back it up as it appears clear the GM isn't too happy with this negotiation

 

I don't know why this contract is contentious.  Term and dollar shouldn't be a big factor given games played, production, and draft position. If Mangiapane wasn't waiver eligible I would assume this was an issue of 1-way / 2-way.  But he is waiver eligible and the Flames are likely not to risk him on waivers unless his play dictates that.  

 

I don't see how holding out is going to benefit Mangiapane.  He needs to have a strong camp to earn a top 9 spot and then a strong season to earn a bigger contract. Sure, he could pull a Giordano and bolt to another league.  But that rarely works in the players benefit.  

[kehatch]

3 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I know Czarnik was a UFA, but how is he worth morth than Mangiapane.

He isn;t.

 

BT isn;t going to offer a good contract with Tkachuk unsigned and Frolik's salary still an issue.

There's no real pressure for Mange to sign now.

Same for BT.

Holding out hurts nobody, whether it's BT stalling or Mange.

 

 

Totally disagree.  First, I don't think Tkachuk / cap have anything to do with Mangiapane's contract.  The fact is he is a 6-round pick, limited games played, limited production to date, and he doesn't have arb rights.  He has no leverage and Treliving isn't going to give him more then his leverage dictates.  Nor should he.

 

Second, Mangiapane needs a good camp to earn a top 9 spot and to make sure he is ready to start full speed when the puck drops.  Players that miss camp almost universally start slow.  Plus, Dube, Czarnik, Bennett Lucic, etc will all be at camp and fighting for a limited top 9 winger slot.  Mangiapane should be thinking about the NEXT contract, not this one.  Which means his priority should be to have a strong season.  

[The_People1]

11 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

BT's comments today were interesting, typically he is non-committal on negotiations, but today he was rather forthright when asked about the Mangiapane negotiation. Only other time I can recall him commenting on a negotiation was with Kulak last year and we know how that ended up. For a guy with 13 career points, he may wanna bring his "A" game if and when he signs after taking such a firm stance, otherwise he may not be long for this organization.

 

That being said though I respect Mangiapane's decision to get what he wants as you only get so many NHL contracts, he just better be ready to back it up as it appears clear the GM isn't too happy with this negotiation

 

Is it if you make over $900k then your cap hit still counts after getting moved to the minors?  That's what Kulak was negotiating for and after signing, BT traded him right away.  I'm guessing Mangiapane wants the same kind of money so he becomes essentially a one-way deal.  He doesn't want to go back to AHL... nor should he, in my opinion.  Mangiapane is an NHL level player.  BT wants him to be a black ace that we can call up late season.

 

I hope we don't lose Mangiapane because he provided surprise scoring on the bottom 6.   

[Horsman1]

43 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Is it if you make over $900k then your cap hit still counts after getting moved to the minors?  That's what Kulak was negotiating for and after signing, BT traded him right away.  I'm guessing Mangiapane wants the same kind of money so he becomes essentially a one-way deal.  He doesn't want to go back to AHL... nor should he, in my opinion.  Mangiapane is an NHL level player.  BT wants him to be a black ace that we can call up late season.

 

I hope we don't lose Mangiapane because he provided surprise scoring on the bottom 6.   

hard-ball negotiating with Treliving is a bad judgement call by Mangiapane agent.. Some of these veteran agents believe their own press clippings.. We lost Kulak because of his agent.. we're on the verge of losing Frolik for the same reason.. and now Mangiapane???

 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Is it if you make over $900k then your cap hit still counts after getting moved to the minors?  That's what Kulak was negotiating for and after signing, BT traded him right away.  I'm guessing Mangiapane wants the same kind of money so he becomes essentially a one-way deal.  He doesn't want to go back to AHL... nor should he, in my opinion.  Mangiapane is an NHL level player.  BT wants him to be a black ace that we can call up late season.

 

I hope we don't lose Mangiapane because he provided surprise scoring on the bottom 6.   

 

18 minutes ago, Horsman1 said:

hard-ball negotiating with Treliving is a bad judgement call by Mangiapane agent.. Some of these veteran agents believe their own press clippings.. We lost Kulak because of his agent.. we're on the verge of losing Frolik for the same reason.. and now Mangiapane???

 

 

Well, first Kulak had an arbitration case decided - $900k, and was waived just prior to the season starting.

Mangiapane's QO was $715k (less than 2018/19) and a two way deal.

He's waiver eligible.

At the very least, he deserves a raise and one way deal, but that's just my opinion.

Don't know if that's the hold up in negotiations or not.

He should be looking for a two year deal at most, so he can be a RFA with rights.

Perhaps the structure is why they can't agree.

Bigger payday in year 2 to give him a higher QO.

 

 

 

[Going4TheCup]

Maybe package Frolik and Mangiapane in a trade?? 

[travel_dude]

5 minutes ago, Going4TheCup said:

Maybe package Frolik and Mangiapane in a trade?? 

 

Mangiapane isn't going anywhere.  I've been wrong before, but BT and Mange's agent are just seeing who blinks.

BT won't.

He's not going to get a big salary if he's traded, so wwhy put the Flames in that position.

[LouCifer]

I’d be exceptionally miffed if we lost (via trade or whatever) a young and talented player like Mange.