2019-2020 Training Camp

[CalgarySTL]

1 hour ago, Carty said:

 

You are likely right about Mangiapane's agent trying to get some more coin on the deal...

 

and here's the latest from Fan960's Boomer...

 

Bummer. Can't they just meet in the middle? What's a hundred G's between friends. Wouldn't like this turning ugly over such a small amount. Didn't that happen with the Coilers & Smyth back in the day?... It turned sour over some similar amount (maybe even less) and he ended up with the Avs shortly after?

[Thebrewcrew]

1 hour ago, CalgarySTL said:

Bummer. Can't they just meet in the middle? What's a hundred G's between friends. Wouldn't like this turning ugly over such a small amount. Didn't that happen with the Coilers & Smyth back in the day?... It turned sour over some similar amount (maybe even less) and he ended up with the Avs shortly after?

I think the reason BT is being so stingy with Mangiapane is even 100k-200k could make a big difference with our cap. Tkachuk will be a big deal, we know that and he's worth it, where you get yourself in trouble is where you pay guys lower on the roster more than they are worth. An extra 100k-200k on a Mangiapane deal could be the difference between recalling a player from Stockton when the Flames run into an illness/minor injury or playing a skater short because the cap won't allow a recall

[robrob74]

5 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I think the reason BT is being so stingy with Mangiapane is even 100k-200k could make a big difference with our cap. Tkachuk will be a big deal, we know that and he's worth it, where you get yourself in trouble is where you pay guys lower on the roster more than they are worth. An extra 100k-200k on a Mangiapane deal could be the difference between recalling a player from Stockton when the Flames run into an illness/minor injury or playing a skater short because the cap won't allow a recall

 

A few years ago some didn’t agree that over paying a guy, even just a few hundred was that big a deal. 

It adds up, and by giving extra it can set a precedent. Even the residual buyout money on the cap is hurting us. We have 2.67M against. 

 

Now Neal’s extra counts against us in the partial Lucic deal. I get we saved 500K but was that really only how much neal is overpriced, or is Lucic worth the discounted contract?

[travel_dude]

11 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

A few years ago some didn’t agree that over paying a guy, even just a few hundred was that big a deal. 

It adds up, and by giving extra it can set a precedent. Even the residual buyout money on the cap is hurting us. We have 2.67M against. 

 

Now Neal’s extra counts against us in the partial Lucic deal. I get we saved 500K but was that really only how much neal is overpriced, or is Lucic worth the discounted contract?

 

The flip side to this is that the player walks away when he can or asks to be traded.

Glencross was offered $200k less years ago and we ended up with him.

 

More to the point, all we have is Eric Freakin' Francis reporting "what he thinks", not facts.

 

Lucic is a weird deal.

Actual salary owed is 4 years for a total of $13m.

Average $3.25m per year.

Not really overpriced as much as over-capped.

[robrob74]

11 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

The flip side to this is that the player walks away when he can or asks to be traded.

Glencross was offered $200k less years ago and we ended up with him.

 

More to the point, all we have is Eric Freakin' Francis reporting "what he thinks", not facts.

 

Lucic is a weird deal.

Actual salary owed is 4 years for a total of $13m.

Average $3.25m per year.

Not really overpriced as much as over-capped.

 

 

Oh yes, but in the cap world and for the Flames, the cap is more important.

 

i guess the flip side to Mange’s argument could be that he was one of only 3-5 players to actually show up to play in the playoffs. The rest of the team seemed asleep until about the half way mark of game 4.

[travel_dude]

4 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

Oh yes, but in the cap world and for the Flames, the cap is more important.

 

i guess the flip side to Mange’s argument could be that he was one of only 3-5 players to actually show up to play in the playoffs. The rest of the team seemed asleep until about the half way mark of game 4.

 

Other than the qualifying offer from the Flames of $715k and a 2-way deal, I have no idea if any other offers have been made.  I get the impression none have.

BT made it sound like the agent made his position and nothing discussed after that.

Position, as in what they were looking for.

 

With BT, you just never know what is happening. which I am fine with.

It's not for public consumption.

But for Francis to comment and say there is some number they are apart on, is just wrong.

He's just speculating based on comments.

Anything I have read from BT doesn't mention anything like that.

[cross16]

Cap space accumulates as well. 100-200K now means more at the trade deadline so the NHL system is truly one where every dollar counts, not just today but for the future as well. if you can save the money you do it but it's also just about negotiating and leverage. Flames have all the leverage here and really all Mangiapane can do is withhold his services which is not a smart idea for a young player. Makes perfect sense for the Flames to utilize that leverage and expect the side to blink because in most cases the player will which is what I would believe is behind BT's comments about being "surprised" 

[robrob74]

56 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Cap space accumulates as well. 100-200K now means more at the trade deadline so the NHL system is truly one where every dollar counts, not just today but for the future as well. if you can save the money you do it but it's also just about negotiating and leverage. Flames have all the leverage here and really all Mangiapane can do is withhold his services which is not a smart idea for a young player. Makes perfect sense for the Flames to utilize that leverage and expect the side to blink because in most cases the player will which is what I would believe is behind BT's comments about being "surprised" 

 

Yup!

 

plus, it opens a spot for a young player who might be able to fill his place, ehhhhhhhhemmmmm, Dube maybe? Maybe another? He has done well, but someone comes in and blows the doors open and takes it. Tough move on Mangiapane’s end. Gutsy.

[Horsman1]

On 9/8/2019 at 5:52 PM, Thebrewcrew said:

I think the reason BT is being so stingy with Mangiapane is even 100k-200k could make a big difference with our cap. Tkachuk will be a big deal, we know that and he's worth it, where you get yourself in trouble is where you pay guys lower on the roster more than they are worth. An extra 100k-200k on a Mangiapane deal could be the difference between recalling a player from Stockton when the Flames run into an illness/minor injury or playing a skater short because the cap won't allow a recall

3 year contract.. 6 mill/ .. 35 percent raise for second year.. 35 percent raise for third year.. .. roughly 3 years/ 25 million. 8 a yr avg... 

[Carty]

On 9/8/2019 at 5:52 PM, Thebrewcrew said:

I think the reason BT is being so stingy with Mangiapane is even 100k-200k could make a big difference with our cap. Tkachuk will be a big deal, we know that and he's worth it, where you get yourself in trouble is where you pay guys lower on the roster more than they are worth. An extra 100k-200k on a Mangiapane deal could be the difference between recalling a player from Stockton when the Flames run into an illness/minor injury or playing a skater short because the cap won't allow a recall

 

1 hour ago, Horsman1 said:

3 year contract.. 6 mill/ .. 35 percent raise for second year.. 35 percent raise for third year.. .. roughly 3 years/ 25 million. 8 a yr avg... 

 

 

 

Perhaps you are thinking a little bit too high with the amounts for Mangiapane's contract Horsman?...

 

[Horsman1]

11 hours ago, Carty said:

 

 

Perhaps you are thinking a little bit too high with the amounts for Mangiapane's contract Horsman?...

 

oope this was for tkachuk

[cross16]

2 Flames made their way into Friedman's 31 Thoughts in regards to some off-season work. 

 

Quote

 

25. The Athletic’s Craig Custance reported Calgary’s Noah Hanifin tinkered with his one-timer at Darryl Belfry’s skills camp last month. He’s not the only Flame working on his finish. Another is Sam Bennett.

“I can do a better job of finishing opportunities,” he said. “Release points. Someone told me every time I shoot the puck it’s the same. Sometimes you need to mix it up, change the angle, change the release point, and I was working on that.”

Bennett added he was working on shooting off different feet, as well. 

 

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/31-thoughts-tense-rfa-waiting-game-hits-final-stages/

[robrob74]

44 minutes ago, cross16 said:

2 Flames made their way into Friedman's 31 Thoughts in regards to some off-season work. 

 

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/31-thoughts-tense-rfa-waiting-game-hits-final-stages/

 

 

Thank you for sharing!

[conundrumed]

Release points, different feet?

Do we actually have coaches?

JFC, that's what Bennett is talking about improving?

WTF?

[The_People1]

5 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Release points, different feet?

Do we actually have coaches?

JFC, that's what Bennett is talking about improving?

WTF?

 

I think one of the biggest issues Sam Bennett faced after getting drafted is that he went from 165 lbs with baby fat to 195 lbs of pure muscle.  Stick flex then comes into play.  Higher flex means you gain shot power but lose the feel of the puck.  Depending on your weight change, moving up stick flex may be mandatory and not optional.  Bennett may have had to jump from flex 85 to 110 and now his shot is all kinds of messed up.  Maybe he even had to change brands depending on sponsorship.  Different brands, different pivot points, different curves, etc.

 

I know they are pros but still.  Remember when Tiger Woods changed from Titleist to Nike?  He couldn't win again.  

[ABC923]

Key sentence for me: "working on shooting off different feet".  If you are expecting to play the right wing more than in the past, this matters a great deal.  I think we will see a lot of Bennett on the right side this training camp.

[The_People1]

 

[JTech780]

I thought Phillips and Gawdin looked good again tonight, but they should.

 

I thought that was one of the best games I have seen from Ruzicka, hopefully he can keep it up.

 

Another strong game from Pospisil, I really like his game, he is physical, knows how to get under the skin of the opponent, there is enough offense there to get him to the show.

 

I thought Yelesin stood out a bit more tonight. It will be interesting to see what he does at main camp.

 

Wolf moves so well in the net and reads the play extremely well.

[The_People1]

49 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

I thought Phillips and Gawdin looked good again tonight, but they should.

 

I thought that was one of the best games I have seen from Ruzicka, hopefully he can keep it up.

 

Another strong game from Pospisil, I really like his game, he is physical, knows how to get under the skin of the opponent, there is enough offense there to get him to the show.

 

I thought Yelesin stood out a bit more tonight. It will be interesting to see what he does at main camp.

 

Wolf moves so well in the net and reads the play extremely well.

 

I was disappointed with Tuulola.  I don't think he did enough.  He's also pretty slow out there.

[cccsberg]

27 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I was disappointed with Tuulola.  I don't think he did enough.  He's also pretty slow out there.

Tuulola was pretty good. Physical with a couple of hits, fairly fast, actually and had a glorious chance parked in front of the net.  He didn't score but only three did.  He was ok, much-improved from a couple years ago.

[The_People1]

10 hours ago, cccsberg said:

Tuulola was pretty good. Physical with a couple of hits, fairly fast, actually and had a glorious chance parked in front of the net.  He didn't score but only three did.  He was ok, much-improved from a couple years ago.

 

You are right.  He was "okay".  I just had higher hopes because I wanted to see him challenge for a 4th line RW spot to take over Hathaway.  He needed to stand out.  Philips, Gawdin, Rucizka, and Pospisil stood out and yet, none are expected to make the Flames. In a tourny like this, you have to be the best player on the ice to even have a chance at the NHL.

 

On a side note, the Oilers kids really sucked hard.  Evan Bouchard had a few good rushes but the ice generally tilted in the Flames favour.  The Oilers didn't really sustain any attack.

[The_People1]

12 hours ago, JTech780 said:

Wolf moves so well in the net and reads the play extremely well.

 

It was a pleasant surprise.  I had zero expectations but he was good for a 7th round pick.  Looks like he posted a 0.936 sv% with the Silvertips.  I'm not sure at 5'-11" if he will ever make it in the NHL and that's probably why he was passed over in the draft.  But damn, that anticipation and ability to read the play.  That's NHL material.

[bosn111]

I don't understand why people question a goalie based on their height. I know the current trend in the NHL is to look at taller goalies who take up more of the net and can reach post to post a little easier, but why is that a necessity? If you look at some of the best goalies in history, they were not huge by any stretch.

 

Patrick Roy was 6 ft

Cujo was 5'11

Vernon 5'9

Quick, Howard, Binnington, Grubauer, Ward, Lundquist are all 6'1

Hutton is 6 ft

Saros, Khudobin are 5'11 both of whom are top 20 in Sv% last year for goalies playing more than 30 games. Both .915 or higher. Khudobin was 8th at .923 playing for Dallas.

 

Just because the trend is to have bigger goalies, size doesn't matter if the goalie is fast enough and athletic enough with solid fundamentals to still make the stops. From what I have read, seen and heard, Wolf seems to be in the same mold as these successful, smaller goalies which is fine by me. Don't write him off simply because of his size.

 

 

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, bosn111 said:

I don't understand why people question a goalie based on their height. I know the current trend in the NHL is to look at taller goalies who take up more of the net and can reach post to post a little easier, but why is that a necessity? If you look at some of the best goalies in history, they were not huge by any stretch.

 

Patrick Roy was 6 ft

Cujo was 5'11

Vernon 5'9

Quick, Howard, Binnington, Grubauer, Ward, Lundquist are all 6'1

Hutton is 6 ft

Saros, Khudobin are 5'11 both of whom are top 20 in Sv% last year for goalies playing more than 30 games. Both .915 or higher. Khudobin was 8th at .923 playing for Dallas.

 

Just because the trend is to have bigger goalies, size doesn't matter if the goalie is fast enough and athletic enough with solid fundamentals to still make the stops. From what I have read, seen and heard, Wolf seems to be in the same mold as these successful, smaller goalies which is fine by me. Don't write him off simply because of his size.

 

Mostly agreed.  I think part of the reason is, goalie gear is getting smaller so a way to circumvent that is to get bigger from the inside.  6'-5" goalie is going to cover more net than a 5'-11" goalie.  So that's a good reason.

 

But it still comes down to skill.  Wolf looks like he has the 6th sense and anticipation.  That's going to go a long way.  We may have a steal of a 7th round pick.  Plus, he's 18 so he might grow 1" by the time he's 23 and NHL ready.

[JTech780]

https://www.nhl.com/news/flames-set-to-open-training-camp/c-309075326
 
 Here is the Flames training camp roster. Interesting to see that they split them up by NHL and AHL rosters. Also looks like Eric Gryba was given a PTO and he is training with the AHL group.