We are ̶A̶r̶e̶ ̶w̶e̶ a playoff bound team ̶?̶

[travel_dude]

11 hours ago, CheersMan said:

 

CJ was 16-10, Elliott was 8-11 prior to tonight.  CJ has the better SA% by far.  Elliott had lost all 3 to the Coiler this season.  CJ has played the harder competition this season, it was a no brainer to start CJ.  What is the issue here? 

 

CJ had just come off two losses and one win where he gave up two easy goals.  Against the Preds, he gave up 4 goals on a total of 21 shots.  Five of those came in the 3rd period after the game was in the bag.  Elliott had just played the Oilers to a 2-1 shootout.   Sure, it makes sense to start the gut that just finished giving up 4 goals on 21 shots. Rock solid no-brainer.

[robrob74]

5 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

CJ had just come off two losses and one win where he gave up two easy goals.  Against the Preds, he gave up 4 goals on a total of 21 shots.  Five of those came in the 3rd period after the game was in the bag.  Elliott had just played the Oilers to a 2-1 shootout.   Sure, it makes sense to start the gut that just finished giving up 4 goals on 21 shots. Rock solid no-brainer.

 

We had one goalie going (CJ), and the other (BE) didn't look like an NHLer for most of the year. They play the other to get him going and they get one really good starter quality game out of him. In the process they took the goalie that was going off his game by getting him off the starter rhythm. That is smart coaching. 

[The_People1]

I want play us to play the Oilers in round 1... 

[travel_dude]

4 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

We had one goalie going (CJ), and the other (BE) didn't look like an NHLer for most of the year. They play the other to get him going and they get one really good starter quality game out of him. In the process they took the goalie that was going off his game by getting him off the starter rhythm. That is smart coaching. 

 

Then December hit.  CJ went from low goals against to 4 per game, three in a row.  He had most of the starts in January, yet only 3 victories.  This isn;t saying that CJ didn't do a lot for the Flames when we desperately needed wins.  The NHL is very much a "what have you done lately" place.  What has he done lately to justify the starts?  A win over FLA where we dominated the other team in every aspect, but he manages to give up goals on two unobstructed shots.  Great shots, sure, but you have to stop those.  

[robrob74]

5 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Then December hit.  CJ went from low goals against to 4 per game, three in a row.  He had most of the starts in January, yet only 3 victories.  This isn;t saying that CJ didn't do a lot for the Flames when we desperately needed wins.  The NHL is very much a "what have you done lately" place.  What has he done lately to justify the starts?  A win over FLA where we dominated the other team in every aspect, but he manages to give up goals on two unobstructed shots.  Great shots, sure, but you have to stop those.  

 

But that's what I mean, they gave Elliot a string of starts and that put Johnson off his game. But in some of those losses it wasn't Johnson's fault, where he lost due to team play. 

[robrob74]

So, something about the team bothers me. Is it part of the maturation of skilled players that make them think they don't have to work hard anymore? Is it a work thing? Or has the team just always been slow starters and get into a game a little later? 

 

They definitely do not come to play every game.

[Fins&FIre15]

One thing that really bothers me about Gaudreau is how he use to work his *** off to pickpocket the other players and create turnovers, but now he is not as tenacious and doesn't steal pucks very often. That helped him create offense in his 60/70+ point seasons, which makes me wish he would go back and watch the tape of how he use to play (could also be GG system changes, but who knows).

[JTech780]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/960/boomer-morning/rhetts-rant-flames-troubles/

 

Normally I take what Rhett Warrener says with a grain of salt, but I had a hard time disagreeing with his rant this morning. 

 

It is time to make some changes. I also want to see Giordano put this team on his back and drag them into battle, he's the captain he has to set the tone for this team.

 

Monahan is a good scorer, but there is little no fight in his game in general, but even less this year. 

 

If this team comes out flat against Toronto tonight, they are pretty much done. I don't think you can play as terrible as they did against Nashville and then let Edmonton embarrass you on your turf and then come out flat in the next game and expect to make the playoffs. I want to see an angry team tonight.

[conundrumed]

Like his take on Chiasson and just the team in general playing with a whole bunch of whatever.

[Pyromancer]

Our tenuous grip on the last wild card spot persists thanks only to other team's failures.

The winning must resume or the pack of weakling wolves, but not coyotes, will catch us.

Wild card cutoff projected to 85 pts. Now that's not asking for much. I can't see it past 90

at the end of the season.

The illusion of Boston in a playoff spot persists.

A total of 7 teams could pass or tie the Bruins if they win their games-in-hand.

 

[robrob74]

There's a lot of season left, but hopefully being knocked out of a playoff spot tonight gives us a push and a wake-up call. But, we shot ourselves in the foot by our play of late and were lucky to be in a spot for as long as we have been. 

 

The team just needs to get their head out of the dirt and just go play hockey, no more thinking it, just do!

[tmac70]

We are currently out of playoff spot, and believe we will slid further as we go. Our schedule inconsistent play and games in hand yeah we are not going anywhere. Much like the year before, goalies and players maybe we need to recognize that as much as this team looks good on paper, it is not constructed very well. When BB came in ,truculence was the word of the day, today we are exact opposite. We were to be faster, nope. Coaching change better systems seen minor glimpses. What is consistent is that this club seems to never be able to over come adversity, question is who and why does this happen? Environment, players, attitude, coaches something or someone creates this problem.  Remove the problem and than you  will see results. No competitive athlete likes to lose, problem is no one seems to be able to create a formula to create a winning attitude inside that room. 

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, tmac70 said:

We are currently out of playoff spot, and believe we will slid further as we go. Our schedule inconsistent play and games in hand yeah we are not going anywhere. Much like the year before, goalies and players maybe we need to recognize that as much as this team looks good on paper, it is not constructed very well. When BB came in ,truculence was the word of the day, today we are exact opposite. We were to be faster, nope. Coaching change better systems seen minor glimpses. What is consistent is that this club seems to never be able to over come adversity, question is who and why does this happen? Environment, players, attitude, coaches something or someone creates this problem.  Remove the problem and than you  will see results. No competitive athlete likes to lose, problem is no one seems to be able to create a formula to create a winning attitude inside that room. 

Negative, negative and once more negative. Last I looked we still had a winning record from a team that is in a development phase and had lots to learn. People like you always want to blame someone, why not blame the maturity level of the team as a whole. We have a young core that doesn't have the experience to carry the ball yet. Some of the vets are doing their part, some are not, some will be gone by next season. Can our GM find a deal that makes the team better between now and the TDL I hope so but it takes a willing trading partner. As far as systems go, we have seen them work and we need this group of players to execute and not stray from the plan.

[tmac70]

1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

Negative, negative and once more negative. Last I looked we still had a winning record from a team that is in a development phase and had lots to learn. People like you always want to blame someone, why not blame the maturity level of the team as a whole. We have a young core that doesn't have the experience to carry the ball yet. Some of the vets are doing their part, some are not, some will be gone by next season. Can our GM find a deal that makes the team better between now and the TDL I hope so but it takes a willing trading partner. As far as systems go, we have seen them work and we need this group of players to execute and not stray from the plan.

Excuses, Excuses and more pathetic excuses. Priceless as your side is similar to mine ( bolded). What is really troubling is people like you point fingers at others when you do exactly what you accuse them of.  I think we both can agree, there is a problem that requires some attention in order to progressively move forward.

[travel_dude]

This thread is all about opinions, both positive and negative.  We are not going to all agree here.  Make your points and move on.

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, tmac70 said:

Excuses, Excuses and more pathetic excuses. Priceless as your side is similar to mine ( bolded). What is really troubling is people like you point fingers at others when you do exactly what you accuse them of.  I think we both can agree, there is a problem that requires some attention in order to progressively move forward.

Facts not excuses, sorry you get confused over which is which. We have good management and good coaches who's job is to advance the plan for this team. Even with good and bad play experience is gained, something this team is going to have to work through together. Weaknesses will get identified and dealt with accordingly, at least we hope so.

[Flyerfan52]

We're 1 point away from that 2nd wildcard spot. Beating the Sens tonight in our last game before the break would be huge as it'll send the team (& us) into the wasted weekend (All Star break) with a positive attitude.

I'm of the opinion our best games are yet to come as few of our best players are playing up to par which I see changing sooner rather than later.

 

I still hope for a goalie upgrade (or @ least another top 4 D) as I was unsure of our tandem going into the season. But if our youngsters we see as core & the vets we know can also score more hit stride a cushion covers less than spectacular goaltending to a large degree.

[travel_dude]

4 minutes ago, Flyerfan52 said:

We're 1 point away from that 2nd wildcard spot. Beating the Sens tonight in our last game before the break would be huge as it'll send the team (& us) into the wasted weekend (All Star break) with a positive attitude.

I'm of the opinion our best games are yet to come as few of our best players are playing up to par which I see changing sooner rather than later.

 

I still hope for a goalie upgrade (or @ least another top 4 D) as I was unsure of our tandem going into the season. But if our youngsters we see as core & the vets we know can also score more hit stride a cushion covers less than spectacular goaltending to a large degree.

 

Nice to hear a Bandwagoner.  I think we have choice of seats now.  The hostesses were really suffering with tips this year.

 

BT and GG have to sit down and take an honest look at the lineup, both personnel and usage.  Wideman is not the guy that is going to propel us into the playoffs.  Elliott was brought in for one reason and that was to take over as #1.  If BT does not believe he has it in him, then he needs to work a trade for a guy like Bishop.  If he has faith in Elliott, then Elliott should get the next 10 games.  

 

As far as D goes, we need to be in a situation where Wideman is scratched/traded/minimal minutes.  That most likely requires a trade for a 4/5 D-man.  Schenn, Stone, whatever.  

 

As far as the forward group goes, BT needs to figure out what he is building towards.  Are Versteeg and Chaisson the types of players that get you towards that?  Are they placeholders or guys that can help you get to the playoffs?  Does it make sense to have Ferland and Bouma playing the same style of game, while one of them is used on the off-swing?

 

My opinion of whether the team is playoff bound is waiting on two games (right now I think they have a good chance).  Tonight's and the first game after the ASG.  If they win those two, then they put pressure on teams with games-in-hand to actually win those games.   

[AlbertaBoy12]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Nice to hear a Bandwagoner.  I think we have choice of seats now.  The hostesses were really suffering with tips this year.

 

BT and GG have to sit down and take an honest look at the lineup, both personnel and usage.  Wideman is not the guy that is going to propel us into the playoffs.  Elliott was brought in for one reason and that was to take over as #1.  If BT does not believe he has it in him, then he needs to work a trade for a guy like Bishop.  If he has faith in Elliott, then Elliott should get the next 10 games.  

 

As far as D goes, we need to be in a situation where Wideman is scratched/traded/minimal minutes.  That most likely requires a trade for a 4/5 D-man.  Schenn, Stone, whatever.  

 

As far as the forward group goes, BT needs to figure out what he is building towards.  Are Versteeg and Chaisson the types of players that get you towards that?  Are they placeholders or guys that can help you get to the playoffs?  Does it make sense to have Ferland and Bouma playing the same style of game, while one of them is used on the off-swing?

 

My opinion of whether the team is playoff bound is waiting on two games (right now I think they have a good chance).  Tonight's and the first game after the ASG.  If they win those two, then they put pressure on teams with games-in-hand to actually win those games.   

I think that this offseason is going to be an interesting one for the team. IF we are able to upgrade our 4/5 spot with a franson or a stone that would be money for this D corps. As much as id like to see schenn for that third pairing, I wouldnt really mind if they brought back engelland at a million dollars even to be the 7th D man leaving spots open for prospects if necessary. 

 

Im going to assume that chiasson and versteeg are placeholders. But going into next season I would really like to see bouma gone, with our 4th line being ferland and chiasson on the wings, assuming stajan gets traded. If we could swing a trade for stone where stajan goes the other way, that would be a win win scenario, and would let us move out some cap that is not needed in that spot. I think we may have to dip into free agency to replace stajan as I dont want jankowski in that spot next year, but the team could look alot better going into next season with a few tweaks.

[ABC923]

I'm a defender of Wideman, he isn't the reason we aren't a playoff team this year.  He does an adequate job most nights.  That said, I probably don't bring him back next year as he is getting on and is not worth 5 million a year anymore.  Engelland is likely gone to LV next season, so that's two spots to fill on the d line next year.  I assume Kulak gets one, but do we bother with Jokipakka?  He's been bad this year.  So we have some work to do in the off season here.  We have some promising prospects, but do we really want our bottom 3 being Kulak, Joki, and Anderson/Kylington?  I don't, so we need to look outside for help.  If Stone is willing to take around 3 mil per for 2-3 years that would be ideal, but he'll probably be more.

 

Our needs this off season are identical to last season, which is unfortunate.  We need a #1 goalie, a top 4 D, and a scoring right winger.  Last season we brought in 2 goalies, as well as Chiasson, Tkachuk, Brouwer and Versteeg.  While Johnson has been all we could really expect, Versteeg is a dependable top 9 winger, and Tkachuk has been great, we still lack a number 1 goalie, did not bring in a bonified top 4 D, and our off season winger additions failed to produce a top 6 RW.  Tkachuk's contribution has been more than overshadowed by Monahan, Johnny and Bennett's struggles.  

 

If we can bring in a goalie that performs, add a true top 4 defenseman, and bring in a top 6 RW I think we are a solid lock for playoffs next season.  To accomplish this we will have to use the savings from Wideman and Engelland to good use, and hope we can somehow unload dead-weight contracts like Bouma and Brouwer.  I doubt Stajan goes anywhere.

[cross16]

They may have to bring Jokipakka back. right now Flames still don't have a dman that qualifies for the exposure requirements in the expansion draft (assuming of course they don't plan on exposing Gio, Brodie or Hamilton). Kulak would have to play 23 of the remaining 31 games to qualify and then need to be re signed as well. That is possible, but if doesn't someone is going to need to get an extension to meet that requirement. That or acquire someone via trade that you know Vegas won't have interest in. 

 

I don't mind Jokipakka as a depth dman as he can play the 6/7 role fine for me. If they need him to meet the expansion draft and then keep him around for depth, i'm fine by that. he'd be cheap. 

[travel_dude]

25 minutes ago, cross16 said:

They may have to bring Jokipakka back. right now Flames still don't have a dman that qualifies for the exposure requirements in the expansion draft (assuming of course they don't plan on exposing Gio, Brodie or Hamilton). Kulak would have to play 23 of the remaining 31 games to qualify and then need to be re signed as well. That is possible, but if doesn't someone is going to need to get an extension to meet that requirement. That or acquire someone via trade that you know Vegas won't have interest in. 

 

I don't mind Jokipakka as a depth dman as he can play the 6/7 role fine for me. If they need him to meet the expansion draft and then keep him around for depth, i'm fine by that. he'd be cheap. 

 

I am pretty sure they will get Jokipakka the remaining game to hit 40 (only needs 5), but he creates a problem for exposure. He is an RFA with arbitration rights. I don't know how that plays into exposure, since it only says signed for 2017/18 is the requirement.  He would need to be at least extended a QO, but given he has rights, does that exempt him?  

 

Kulak is an attempt to win a game or two.  They may give both Yoki and Kulak the 40 , but both are RFA's.

[Flyerfan52]

1 hour ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

I think that this offseason is going to be an interesting one for the team. IF we are able to upgrade our 4/5 spot with a franson or a stone that would be money for this D corps. As much as id like to see schenn for that third pairing, I wouldnt really mind if they brought back engelland at a million dollars even to be the 7th D man leaving spots open for prospects if necessary. 

 

Im going to assume that chiasson and versteeg are placeholders. But going into next season I would really like to see bouma gone, with our 4th line being ferland and chiasson on the wings, assuming stajan gets traded. If we could swing a trade for stone where stajan goes the other way, that would be a win win scenario, and would let us move out some cap that is not needed in that spot. I think we may have to dip into free agency to replace stajan as I dont want jankowski in that spot next year, but the team could look alot better going into next season with a few tweaks.

Stone or Franson (or Del Zotto) are likely to be costly as UFAs where there aren't many good 1s so if possible I'd 1st trade for Luke Schenn (Stajan might do the trick as with Doan possibly retiring & Hanzal and Varbata likely gone the 'Yotes will need some leadership) & then try to get a better 1 so Luke is that 5 that can fill in @ 4 in a pinch. Cover the spot so as to resist the urge to get in a bidding war. Bringing back Englland @ $1.0 million is unlikely due to the weak D crop of UFA D & the LV factor so for an extra 0.25 we get younger & tougher.

Replacing Stajan with his ability to play any line/any position @ only 3.125 will be easier said than done though. We don't have the horses in the pipeline so unless 1 really steps up his replacement will probably have a bigger cap hit.

Chiasson has earned a qualifying offer @ best to play that bottom 6 position he's suited for rather than 2-3 tiers above what he is. Versteeg won't be back unless we give him a lot more than a 1 year/0.95 stay in a GMs radar contract like he has now.

Bouma is most likely a Flame next year unless some team takes him as a throw-in to balance cap. He's a signing mistake we have to live with 1 more year.

 

We have no RFAs that have really earned much more than a QC (sorry Bennett) & currently about $22 million to sign 2 goalies, upgrade our D & add leadership as the current bunch really aren't providing much.

That can all change before the season ends depending what BT does but for now we can't do a lot more than tweaking. If our young "core" revert to what they can be we can do damage in the playoffs & keep getting stronger.

[MAC331]

2 hours ago, Flyerfan52 said:

Stone or Franson (or Del Zotto) are likely to be costly as UFAs where there aren't many good 1s so if possible I'd 1st trade for Luke Schenn (Stajan might do the trick as with Doan possibly retiring & Hanzal and Varbata likely gone the 'Yotes will need some leadership) & then try to get a better 1 so Luke is that 5 that can fill in @ 4 in a pinch. Cover the spot so as to resist the urge to get in a bidding war. Bringing back Englland @ $1.0 million is unlikely due to the weak D crop of UFA D & the LV factor so for an extra 0.25 we get younger & tougher.

Replacing Stajan with his ability to play any line/any position @ only 3.125 will be easier said than done though. We don't have the horses in the pipeline so unless 1 really steps up his replacement will probably have a bigger cap hit.

Chiasson has earned a qualifying offer @ best to play that bottom 6 position he's suited for rather than 2-3 tiers above what he is. Versteeg won't be back unless we give him a lot more than a 1 year/0.95 stay in a GMs radar contract like he has now.

Bouma is most likely a Flame next year unless some team takes him as a throw-in to balance cap. He's a signing mistake we have to live with 1 more year.

 

We have no RFAs that have really earned much more than a QC (sorry Bennett) & currently about $22 million to sign 2 goalies, upgrade our D & add leadership as the current bunch really aren't providing much.

That can all change before the season ends depending what BT does but for now we can't do a lot more than tweaking. If our young "core" revert to what they can be we can do damage in the playoffs & keep getting stronger.

Jankowski can step into the Stajan vacancy. I really hope they don't bring Chiasson back. With you all the way on Schenn.

[Fins&FIre15]

Still very weary on our playoff hopes, (especially with how the ootsb hates us) but hopefully we can use tonight as a turning point on the year and start rolling again.