CheersMan Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 We had some fun with this a couple seasons back using the 7-game segments and we ended up making the playoffs that year. I don’t hear GG talking about 7-game segments but the end goal remains the same. Based on a 95-point season, here is a visual of where we stand today. If we eliminate the losses shown as flat lines (games 5-6, 10-11, 13-14) we should be fine. Are we playoff contenders or pretenders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 I've always believed the goal should be more than making the playoffs. I think the question is whether we have a realistic shot at the cup this year, and the answer is no. Not yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 Coming into the season, i felt we had a team that would improve on last season's performance but still miss the playoffs. 10 games in, that still looks about the right prediction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertaBoy12 Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 If we continue to play a better team game, and our underlying stats continue to improve, not to mention the team shows up every night I wont be dissapointed if we dont make it. I agree with the people, I never expected us to make the playoffs this year necessarily, I did expect us to improve in alot of categories, so for me that would be a win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 8 hours ago, jjgallow said: I've always believed the goal should be more than making the playoffs. I think the question is whether we have a realistic shot at the cup this year, and the answer is no. Not yet. So why make that the goal if you don't believe you can. This IMO is where you fail to realize the stage of development your team is at. With the NHL playoff structure there are many spots within the playoffs, as we seen two seasons ago anything can happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 I don't think so and I felt that way before the start as well. Going into the season I felt they should be playing meaninful games into late March and ideally into April as well but ultimately fall short. I don't see a reason to change that prediction yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 Sure, eliminating the flat lines = success but hard to do. Look @ it. A few bad, a few good & then more losses. We need to be consistent but not by following 2 wins with 3 losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 1 hour ago, MAC331 said: So why make that the goal if you don't believe you can. This IMO is where you fail to realize the stage of development your team is at. With the NHL playoff structure there are many spots within the playoffs, as we seen two seasons ago anything can happen. The other part of this season that hasn't been discussed is the transition of talent that we could see happen at points throughout the season and into next season. The team is likely going to get younger with less experience so be prepared for this as well. I look at Tkachuk and see a player that made it due to a high compete level and we will need more of this as we replace experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 Are we a playoff team this year? I am assuming that we go on a winning streak before the end of this month. PP will begin to improve, assuming they work on the makeup of the units and practice it regularly. We have the goaltending. We have offensive stars. We have a good top 4D. We have a bottom 6 playing well. There's no reason to think we can't go on a tear. It's not like we are only beating bottom feeders. Becoming consistent is the way we get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zima Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 2 things I wanted to see Chuky make the Flames and stay and Kyl coming in and dominating on the back end. We need his speed if were going to try and contain McyD up north I think Kyl has the speed to keep up and remove McyD from the play. The rest will take care of it's self Today we will see how the few days of Practice has sunk in and if they can implement it on a constant bases ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulstad Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 15 hours ago, jjgallow said: I've always believed the goal should be more than making the playoffs. I think the question is whether we have a realistic shot at the cup this year, and the answer is no. Not yet. 6 hours ago, MAC331 said: So why make that the goal if you don't believe you can. This IMO is where you fail to realize the stage of development your team is at. With the NHL playoff structure there are many spots within the playoffs, as we seen two seasons ago anything can happen. Because if your goal (as a team) is anything less than the Stanley Cup, then you shouldn't be a hockey team in the NHL. There is a distinct difference between setting a goal, and being able to reach it, especially if one is honest with themselves. Personally, I see a lot be impressed/excited with, but the one thing I don't see is team cohesion/togetherness, and that is (IMO) one of the biggest intangibles to being able to do more than just make the playoffs. As many others have said, there's plenty to be happy with, but I don't think we're playoff-bound this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 17 minutes ago, Kulstad said: Because if your goal (as a team) is anything less than the Stanley Cup, then you shouldn't be a hockey team in the NHL. There is a distinct difference between setting a goal, and being able to reach it, especially if one is honest with themselves. Personally, I see a lot be impressed/excited with, but the one thing I don't see is team cohesion/togetherness, and that is (IMO) one of the biggest intangibles to being able to do more than just make the playoffs. As many others have said, there's plenty to be happy with, but I don't think we're playoff-bound this season. Yeah I don't agree with that but it is ok if you do. I think at the NHL level you have to realize the ingredients you have within your team, talent as well as experience. You can build towards having a successful season by defining what that means. I believe it is reasonable to set making the playoffs as a goal. They might get there and surprise themselves at how good they have become by believing in themselves. I agree with you wholeheartly that they have to come together as a team in order to achieve any goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 38 minutes ago, Kulstad said: Because if your goal (as a team) is anything less than the Stanley Cup, then you shouldn't be a hockey team in the NHL. There is a distinct difference between setting a goal, and being able to reach it, especially if one is honest with themselves. Personally, I see a lot be impressed/excited with, but the one thing I don't see is team cohesion/togetherness, and that is (IMO) one of the biggest intangibles to being able to do more than just make the playoffs. As many others have said, there's plenty to be happy with, but I don't think we're playoff-bound this season. The playoffs are just a means to an end. No point that being a goal. I think you are describing expectations, which is a realist view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 1 hour ago, Kulstad said: Because if your goal (as a team) is anything less than the Stanley Cup, then you shouldn't be a hockey team in the NHL. There is a distinct difference between setting a goal, and being able to reach it, especially if one is honest with themselves. Personally, I see a lot be impressed/excited with, but the one thing I don't see is team cohesion/togetherness, and that is (IMO) one of the biggest intangibles to being able to do more than just make the playoffs. As many others have said, there's plenty to be happy with, but I don't think we're playoff-bound this season. Thanks for picking that up Kulstad, agree 100%. And I do believe that is their goal as a team, even if they are aware that is is unlikely to achieve this year. I would add, that As an Organization, any thing less than the Stanley Cup as a goal, and I don't think you should be an organization. But a businessman might disagree, and say it comes down to profit and economic sustainability. The team wants the cup, no question. It is at the Organization level where I am not completely sure, when I see their actions, that they're seriously aiming for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertaBoy12 Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 1 minute ago, jjgallow said: Thanks for picking that up Kulstad, agree 100%. And I do believe that is their goal as a team, even if they are aware that is is unlikely to achieve this year. I would add, that As an Organization, any thing less than the Stanley Cup as a goal, and I don't think you should be an organization. But a businessman might disagree, and say it comes down to profit and economic sustainability. The team wants the cup, no question. It is at the Organization level where I am not completely sure, when I see their actions, that they're seriously aiming for this. Why would they not want it at the organizational level? that makes no sense, the owners want the playofff run it makes more money for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABC923 Posted November 11, 2016 Report Share Posted November 11, 2016 To the original thread topic, I would say no we are not a playoff team based on the level of play this year. There's still time to turn it around, but I have not seen much evidence to suggest such a turnaround is coming. Personally I am disappointed by this, as when the rebuild began this was the year I targeted as a breakout year. I was encouraged by the off season moves but it just hasn't worked out. As far as what the goal should be, I don't think there is anything wrong with setting playoffs as a goal. Sometimes achieving big goals is easier if you set yourself smaller goals along the way. And as we have seen before, once you make the playoffs anything really can happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBTC-FLAMES-EDITION Posted November 11, 2016 Report Share Posted November 11, 2016 2 minutes ago, ABC923 said: To the original thread topic, I would say no we are not a playoff team based on the level of play this year. There's still time to turn it around, but I have not seen much evidence to suggest such a turnaround is coming. Personally I am disappointed by this, as when the rebuild began this was the year I targeted as a breakout year. I was encouraged by the off season moves but it just hasn't worked out. As far as what the goal should be, I don't think there is anything wrong with setting playoffs as a goal. Sometimes achieving big goals is easier if you set yourself smaller goals along the way. And as we have seen before, once you make the playoffs anything really can happen. Exactly what I was going to say. My expectation was this team was good enough to make the playoffs and then anything is possible. Realistically it could still happen but regardless of still being in a rebuild or not, it will be a big disappointment if we don't make it based on the mix of talent and experience we have on this team. After all, the majority of our supporting cast has played great, it's our core that has played poorly. Realistically it was not an achievable goal for the Leafs to make the playoffs this year based on where they are with young talent and inexperience but I do not believe anyone would put us in this category. We have very much underachieved this year with being out of position often and having numerous turnovers end up in goals against. Too many penalties, poor special teams and mistakes in roster decisions by our coach have contributed as well. Either we are no where near as talented and experienced as I thought we were or these things can all be worked out. I guess we'll find out soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted November 11, 2016 Report Share Posted November 11, 2016 1 hour ago, AlbertaBoy12 said: Why would they not want it at the organizational level? that makes no sense, the owners want the playofff run it makes more money for them. Because of there's a difference between playoffs and winning the cup, and there are a Lot of factors that go into the business end of things. Otherwise, this list would start with the most frequent Stanley cup winners. http://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations/list/#tab:overall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted November 11, 2016 Report Share Posted November 11, 2016 2 hours ago, travel_dude said: The playoffs are just a means to an end. No point that being a goal. I think you are describing expectations, which is a realist view. It is a means to an end. There needs to be a target date for @ least competing for the SC. You use the time allotted yourself to build the team to do it. I'll use the Jets as an example. The target is apparently 2020 but in the meantime establishing a winner's atmosphere as the kids are phased in helps. So does having the right vets to help during that as the vets want the SC now but see that they are still young enough to spend those extra 4 years helping build the team to get them that ring. Buff spent an extra hour shooting pucks the other night & many are helping rookies/sophs to not get too high or low. Playoffs help harden those kids as they get a taste of the real season. Thinking SC or Bust in years you'd be lucky to squeak into the playoffs can be self defeating. Believe in yourself & advance as far as possible of course but use the experience to correct things to hit that big target. After the date is set management has to identify who is likely to be here then, who is a help to the young & which help most simply due to trade value. If the target is the SC (now or in a few years) tough decisions are needed. It can't be a popularity contest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertaBoy12 Posted November 11, 2016 Report Share Posted November 11, 2016 29 minutes ago, jjgallow said: Because of there's a difference between playoffs and winning the cup, and there are a Lot of factors that go into the business end of things. Otherwise, this list would start with the most frequent Stanley cup winners. http://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations/list/#tab:overall Not necessarily, the top 4 teams are all original six teams, and the teams at the bottom arent traditional hockey markets, so them winning the cup has nothing to do with it. For a canadian team to advance to the stanley cup final it would be a huge influx of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted November 11, 2016 Report Share Posted November 11, 2016 17 hours ago, jjgallow said: Thanks for picking that up Kulstad, agree 100%. And I do believe that is their goal as a team, even if they are aware that is is unlikely to achieve this year. I would add, that As an Organization, any thing less than the Stanley Cup as a goal, and I don't think you should be an organization. But a businessman might disagree, and say it comes down to profit and economic sustainability. The team wants the cup, no question. It is at the Organization level where I am not completely sure, when I see their actions, that they're seriously aiming for this. Can you expand on why you think the Organization is not serious about winning or wanting a SC ? I would love to hear this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted November 11, 2016 Report Share Posted November 11, 2016 15 hours ago, CBTC-FLAMES-EDITION said: Exactly what I was going to say. My expectation was this team was good enough to make the playoffs and then anything is possible. Realistically it could still happen but regardless of still being in a rebuild or not, it will be a big disappointment if we don't make it based on the mix of talent and experience we have on this team. After all, the majority of our supporting cast has played great, it's our core that has played poorly. Realistically it was not an achievable goal for the Leafs to make the playoffs this year based on where they are with young talent and inexperience but I do not believe anyone would put us in this category. We have very much underachieved this year with being out of position often and having numerous turnovers end up in goals against. Too many penalties, poor special teams and mistakes in roster decisions by our coach have contributed as well. Either we are no where near as talented and experienced as I thought we were or these things can all be worked out. I guess we'll find out soon enough. I know it's cliché however "it isn't how you start but how you finish". This team has been going through a lot of new moving scenario and now the injuries are starting to be a factor into play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted November 11, 2016 Report Share Posted November 11, 2016 If the organization only cared about profit and not winning they would never authorize a team to spend to cap while rebuilding and they wouldn't have a 4th line center making 3.5 mill and a healthy scratch of 5 million. Myabe they arnt doing things the way you want them to but I don't think anyone can question that this organization wants to win, not just take a profit and run. If that was their goal they are doing a pretty bad job of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted November 11, 2016 Report Share Posted November 11, 2016 5 minutes ago, cross16 said: If the organization only cared about profit and not winning they would never authorize a team to spend to cap while rebuilding and they wouldn't have a 4th line center making 3.5 mill and a healthy scratch of 5 million. Myabe they arnt doing things the way you want them to but I don't think anyone can question that this organization wants to win, not just take a profit and run. If that was their goal they are doing a pretty bad job of it. This team has always been a "max cap spending team" if it was going to help. The goal has always been to ice a playoff capable team even at the start of the rebuild. I don't think it is an unreasonable request from ownership to ask for a goal of "playoff capable". Playoff capable goals from ownership do not have to mean at they are at odds with the rebuilding process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted November 11, 2016 Report Share Posted November 11, 2016 We need something in the order of 41-26 to hit 93 pts, which should be the near the bottom of the top 8. It's time to stop over-coaching to our opponents and pressing our own game on our opponents. Van's lost, what, 8 of their last 9, and we're tied with them. It's time we turn our own game around and force the play. Why call up Vey instead of Hathaway?? At 20 games, if we're wallowing still, is it time to mix and match some call ups? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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