Calgary Flames Drafting and Development: Your Analysis

[MAC331]

I just mentioned this in another thread...kind of ironic how I just mentioned the Coyotes and here they are adding more quality prospects. Don't know if I'd consider Crouse a "blue chip" prospect but he's a great asset to acquire. Pretty impressed with how quickly Arizona has turned around there prospect pool!

You never want to get to young and lack experience. They made a good move in signing Doan for another year and Bolland should help nurture the youth as well.

[rickross]

They've definitely gotten younger...their D looks a bit thin but if Chychrun pans out they should be ok in a few years. They will need a better balance with vets in the lineup. I'm just impressed at how quickly they've restocked. They've gone about it without attracting too much attention but their right up with there with the Jets abd Sabres in terms of talent in their respective prospect pools

[rickross]

Where are we at with our development and drafting? Do you guys feel the Flames have been more hit than miss or vice versa with their current pool of prospects? It's funny how quickly perspectives can change but guys like Poirier, H. Smith, Kanzig have taken a hit on the prospect depth chart. Jury is still out on guys like Janko, Shink, Klimchuk and Gillies although the potential is still there. Then you have guys like Kulak and Wotherspoon and you have to wonder how much longer they'll be in the organization. There's a lot more talent in the pool but the Flames are still lacking more of those true "blue chip" prospects. 

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, rickross said:

Where are we at with our development and drafting? Do you guys feel the Flames have been more hit than miss or vice versa with their current pool of prospects? It's funny how quickly perspectives can change but guys like Poirier, H. Smith, Kanzig have taken a hit on the prospect depth chart. Jury is still out on guys like Janko, Shink, Klimchuk and Gillies although the potential is still there. Then you have guys like Kulak and Wotherspoon and you have to wonder how much longer they'll be in the organization. There's a lot more talent in the pool but the Flames are still lacking more of those true "blue chip" prospects. 

Blue chip talent is fairly easy to recognize, it's the borderline middle of the pack players that are tougher to evaluate.This is why the development leagues are necessary because some that excel in their respective junior or now college leagues could bomb out past those leagues. Some have a tough time accepting they are no longer the stars and never adjust their play to simply be able to make it at the NHL level. Poirier could be one these, hard to say. Hunter Smith is still young and I wouldn't count him out yet. Jankowski is going to be a good one, he simply needed more games than the college time to advance his development for NHL time. I think a lot of teams have those 6 or 7 type defensemen types that stack up and it really become a matter of choice for the GM who to stay with.

[cross16]

They lack blue chip prospects because they are all in the NHL. Vast majority of cases you get your blue chip talent out of the first round and the Flames have already graduated everyone and they didn't pick in 2015. The odd team finds a GM here and there, but typically when you look at top prospects list it's all first rounder and high 2nd rounders. Hard to always have blue chip talent lying around.

 

Flames still burn through too many picks for my liking, Kanzig, Porier, Smith etc but I've quite liked the last 2 drafts and the dividends are there. Flames sent 5 players to the world juniors this year, 3 from the most recent draft, and their number 1 pick is in the Calder discussion (won't win it but he's there). Hard to find too many problems with that. 

 

Next step is to continue to give young players a chance. Make room for guys like Kulak, Klimchuk, Hathaway and keep playing them. 

[TheBurn]

We should hold onto our first Rd pick this year (and hopefully 2nd). There are a lot of first rounders that are rw's or right handed centres that can play wing. This is our best chance at securing a top line player for the future (Pursuing a cheap option for now in form of veterans with hands like Vrbata or Iggy might help us as a pure rental).

 

As for our development, I feel that our scouts have been okay but not great, over the years I find myself applauding picks like Kylington and Andersson while shaking my head at picks like McDonald and Kanzig. Drafting is a necessary evil and I would like to make sure we have enough players coming in that we don't find ourselves shipping out talent due to salary cap management. The state of Stockton is a worry but the contracts that are expiring for the most part are the players struggling the most. With many of our nhl bottom 6 on expiring contracts as well, we have a chance to fill in those lower roles with players from Stockton. This helps the cap in the short term and gives us the best chance to round out our team with player developed by us. 

[rickross]

I agree, barring a just too good to refuse offer..I don't see us parting with our 1st or even 2nd Rd picks this year. The expansion draft may just create a rare scenario here and there but ultimately management is aware this is still a rebuild first and foremost. Our farm teams have never seen much success but they didn't have a lot of talent from the then atrocious Flames drafting history. It wasn't much of a focus until Feaster took over and we have graduated more players from the farm over the years. It would be great to finally ice a strong AHL team but at least we have a deeper pool of potential NHL ready players in the system. 

[MAC331]

9 hours ago, rickross said:

I agree, barring a just too good to refuse offer..I don't see us parting with our 1st or even 2nd Rd picks this year. The expansion draft may just create a rare scenario here and there but ultimately management is aware this is still a rebuild first and foremost. Our farm teams have never seen much success but they didn't have a lot of talent from the then atrocious Flames drafting history. It wasn't much of a focus until Feaster took over and we have graduated more players from the farm over the years. It would be great to finally ice a strong AHL team but at least we have a deeper pool of potential NHL ready players in the system. 

I wouldn't get to set on what would be the right way or wrong way to go, if the right player is offered via trade a GM has to make it work. Hamilton is a great example when you forgo picks for a desired player. I could see BT using our 2017 1st within a Goalie deal, someone like Mrazek of DET.

[rickross]

Add Lazar to the system. That's make for Shink and Lazar as the Flames'reclamation projects, As much as its on the player I think watching how these 2 develop is a good measuring stick for the Flames organization. That makes for 4 first rounders from 2013..with 2 of them have 100+ NHL games, Monny being the only proven NHLer. Losing a 2nd for Lazar wasn't cheap but it maybe this years draft is really that unspectacular. 

[The_People1]

On 2/27/2017 at 7:13 PM, TheBurn said:

We should hold onto our first Rd pick this year (and hopefully 2nd). There are a lot of first rounders that are rw's or right handed centres that can play wing. 

 

A few RHS RD in range as well like Callan Foote, Luke Martin, Henri Jokiharju, and Conor Timmins.  It's so hard to get those RHS RD. You almost have to draft them yourselves or you simply won't have any cause they are rare via UFA.  Right now Rasmus Anderson and Adam Fox look okay but each have their own obstacles to overcome.  Neither are a sure thing.

 

[MAC331]

On ‎2017‎-‎03‎-‎01 at 11:38 PM, rickross said:

Add Lazar to the system. That's make for Shink and Lazar as the Flames'reclamation projects, As much as its on the player I think watching how these 2 develop is a good measuring stick for the Flames organization. That makes for 4 first rounders from 2013..with 2 of them have 100+ NHL games, Monny being the only proven NHLer. Losing a 2nd for Lazar wasn't cheap but it maybe this years draft is really that unspectacular. 

A lot of development is mental as these players have the physical talents. They may need some more muscle and weight to apply their talents at the NHL level however they have to come to grips with the position they will play. Many players such a Shinkaruk or even Poirier who were big scorers in Junior will level out as 3rd liners but they have to mentally adjust to being more defensive. There is no shame in being this type of player, the NHL is a job and you will get paid handsomely no matter what, keep your head on straight and always be trying to improve your game.

[robrob74]

28 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

A lot of development is mental as these players have the physical talents. They may need some more muscle and weight to apply their talents at the NHL level however they have to come to grips with the position they will play. Many players such a Shinkaruk or even Poirier who were big scorers in Junior will level out as 3rd liners but they have to mentally adjust to being more defensive. There is no shame in being this type of player, the NHL is a job and you will get paid handsomely no matter what, keep your head on straight and always be trying to improve your game.

 

I agree. How many people get paid hundreds of thousands a year, let alone over 100,000?

 

in ECHL Burrows was making 450.00/week. 

How many of us would love to do even that? 

In vancouver, beer league hockey fees are about 900.00 for 30 games plus a guaranteed 2 playoff games. I would take what Burrows got to play.

[tmac70]

On 2017-03-02 at 0:38 AM, rickross said:

Add Lazar to the system. That's make for Shink and Lazar as the Flames'reclamation projects, As much as its on the player I think watching how these 2 develop is a good measuring stick for the Flames organization. That makes for 4 first rounders from 2013..with 2 of them have 100+ NHL games, Monny being the only proven NHLer. Losing a 2nd for Lazar wasn't cheap but it maybe this years draft is really that unspectacular. 

Lazar has a chance if expectations are not set high.  Really at best he is a 3rd line fill in 2nd liner, if he could put up 20- 30 points would be a bonus. The expectations for the other 2 exceed their ability in the NHL.  Seeing there is a crush on the 2012 draft maybe go after Nichuskin out of Dallas

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, tmac70 said:

Lazar has a chance if expectations are not set high.  Really at best he is a 3rd line fill in 2nd liner, if he could put up 20- 30 points would be a bonus. The expectations for the other 2 exceed their ability in the NHL.  Seeing there is a crush on the 2012 draft maybe go after Nichuskin out of Dallas

I really wish people would get away from numbering lines and labelling players this or that. Is Ferland a #1 line RW ? he is now and seems to be working very well with JG and SM. Before this season nobody thought of Backlund and Frolik as anything more than 3rd liners now they are the best line we have doing well. Lazar could be a real fit for someone like Bennett, we need to find out. It is all about chemistry and on ice purpose IMO the performances are either there or they are not.

[DirtyDeeds]

26 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I really wish people would get away from numbering lines and labelling players this or that. Is Ferland a #1 line RW ? he is now and seems to be working very well with JG and SM. Before this season nobody thought of Backlund and Frolik as anything more than 3rd liners now they are the best line we have doing well. Lazar could be a real fit for someone like Bennett, we need to find out. It is all about chemistry and on ice purpose IMO the performances are either there or they are not.

This has been my pet peeve for a long time now.

 

• Money was labeled a 3rd line center and 2nd line at best long before he played one game in the NHL.
• Gadreau has been labeled too small for every league he has played for.
• Gio was labeled by the experts as not good enough and had to go overseas to realize his potential.
• Janks has been labeled a 4th or maybe 3rd line center since he was drafted.

 

You already gave the best example of stereotyping gone wrong. Backs with Frolik and Tkachuk have been our #1 line all season, taking on the oppositions top lines and most of the defensive zone starts turning them into offensive zone starts.

 

I don't recall anyone saying Backs would be our best center or even a good #2 center. To this day a lot of posters still want to get rid of him.....

[MAC331]

Just now, DirtyDeeds said:

This has been my pet peeve for a long time now.

 

• Money was labeled a 3rd line center and 2nd line at best long before he played one game in the NHL.
• Gadreau has been labeled too small for every league he has played for.
• Gio was labeled by the experts as not good enough and had to go overseas to realize his potential.
• Janks has been labeled a 4th or maybe 3rd line center since he was drafted.

 

You already gave the best example of stereotyping gone wrong. Backs with Frolik and Tkachuk have been our #1 line all season, taking on the oppositions top lines and most of the defensive zone starts turning them into offensive zone starts.

 

I don't recall anyone saying Backs would be our best center or even a good #2 center. To this day a lot of posters still want to get rid of him.....

I have to admit not being a Backlund fan but I have become one over the past two seasons. He could be our Marian Hossa if BT also sees him here on a longer term. Backlund and Frolik bring a stability to the team that allows others the time to develop further. I hope BT realizes what he has in these two players.

BTW I am not labelling Jankowski as a 4th line C but I would have no problem with seeing him join this group in that capacity next season if BT can unload Stajan.

[DirtyDeeds]

3 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I have to admit not being a Backlund fan but I have become one over the past two seasons. He could be our Marian Hossa if BT also sees him here on a longer term. Backlund and Frolik bring a stability to the team that allows others the time to develop further. I hope BT realizes what he has in these two players.

BTW I am not labelling Jankowski as a 4th line C but I would have no problem with seeing him join this group in that capacity next season if BT can unload Stajan.

I was not saying you were stereotyping players incorrectly. I was saying just about all of us have and continue to do this.

 

I have said many many times in these forums to at least give them some games in the NHL before spouting out what posters think they will be.

[TrippinVdUb]

2 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said:

This has been my pet peeve for a long time now.

 

• Money was labeled a 3rd line center and 2nd line at best long before he played one game in the NHL.
• Gadreau has been labeled too small for every league he has played for.
• Gio was labeled by the experts as not good enough and had to go overseas to realize his potential.
• Janks has been labeled a 4th or maybe 3rd line center since he was drafted.

 

You already gave the best example of stereotyping gone wrong. Backs with Frolik and Tkachuk have been our #1 line all season, taking on the oppositions top lines and most of the defensive zone starts turning them into offensive zone starts.

 

I don't recall anyone saying Backs would be our best center or even a good #2 center. To this day a lot of posters still want to get rid of him.....

And this is why I hope we afford Bennett the patients to develop and find his game. All the tools are their for him to reach his potential and this team has another couple years before the core reaches its prime years. Maybe he's not a true #1or 2 right now but given the time I see no reason why he cant be in the future.

 

Janko reminds me allot of Kyle Turris, they play a similar type game and like Turris its going to take time for him to grow into what ever role the brass see fit for him. but tell me you wouldn't want Kyle as our 3rd - 4th line pivot? Mark has shown an ability to raise his game to another level every time he has graduated to a higher league, while being counted on as a go to guy, fact is every coach he has had since being drafted has shown that they trust him and his game. He may not be ready by for the Flames by next training camp, but I would figure he works himself into the first call up possibility soon after.

[tmac70]

22 hours ago, MAC331 said:

I really wish people would get away from numbering lines and labelling players this or that. Is Ferland a #1 line RW ? he is now and seems to be working very well with JG and SM. Before this season nobody thought of Backlund and Frolik as anything more than 3rd liners now they are the best line we have doing well. Lazar could be a real fit for someone like Bennett, we need to find out. It is all about chemistry and on ice purpose IMO the performances are either there or they are not.

WOW, double standards! I believe you have done the same. So than you disagree with scouts, scouting reports, hockey panelists and GM's who use the same so called labeling. Is Ferland a 1st line guy, no, but he can skate with JG, he can make plays and has a NHL shot. Have you not noticed JG has more time and space? When was the last time someone took a free swing at him? Ferland proved the protection but also has been the fill in you thought Chassion would be. Chassion can skate, beyond that there everything else drops off the cliff, your typical 4th line guy.  

 

Also if I am not mistaken, Hrudy made a comment during a game that he felt Backs was the best 3rd line center in the game, shame on him

[MAC331]

13 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

WOW, double standards! I believe you have done the same. So than you disagree with scouts, scouting reports, hockey panelists and GM's who use the same so called labeling. Is Ferland a 1st line guy, no, but he can skate with JG, he can make plays and has a NHL shot. Have you not noticed JG has more time and space? When was the last time someone took a free swing at him? Ferland proved the protection but also has been the fill in you thought Chassion would be. Chassion can skate, beyond that there everything else drops off the cliff, your typical 4th line guy.  

 

Also if I am not mistaken, Hrudy made a comment during a game that he felt Backs was the best 3rd line center in the game, shame on him

What the H are you going on about ?

[MAC331]

19 hours ago, TrippinVdUb said:

And this is why I hope we afford Bennett the patients to develop and find his game. All the tools are their for him to reach his potential and this team has another couple years before the core reaches its prime years. Maybe he's not a true #1or 2 right now but given the time I see no reason why he cant be in the future.

 

Janko reminds me allot of Kyle Turris, they play a similar type game and like Turris its going to take time for him to grow into what ever role the brass see fit for him. but tell me you wouldn't want Kyle as our 3rd - 4th line pivot? Mark has shown an ability to raise his game to another level every time he has graduated to a higher league, while being counted on as a go to guy, fact is every coach he has had since being drafted has shown that they trust him and his game. He may not be ready by for the Flames by next training camp, but I would figure he works himself into the first call up possibility soon after.

I think Backlund allows Bennett the time to develop now and next season. I also think Lazar will be a far better winger for Bennett than Brouwer, which begs the question what to do with Brouwer ? I actually would reconsider bringing back Versteeg for a line of Versteeg, Bennett and Lazar.

I don't want to see Jankowski spend another season in Stockton, he would be better served growing along with this main core group next season. We have gotten all we need from Stajan, trade him.

[zima]

Well believe or not mac331 I agree on everything but moving Staj he is a great line of Defence But he will probably be up for auction due to his age. I my self hate to see him go it's good place to start the younger core kids to teach a little D in there lives staj is a good mentor but saying that I thought Hudler would stay awhile to keep the kids moving forward and mentor them a little more. Shows what I know the kids are doing just fine with out him. I think Brouwer will be an asset in the playoffs hopefully he is holding on to the physical part of his game for the playoffs to save on the body then Boom all out war. Ok I can dream.

[MAC331]

Just now, zima said:

Well believe or not mac331 I agree on everything but moving Staj he is a great line of Defence But he will probably be up for auction due to his age. I my self hate to see him go it's good place to start the younger core kids to teach a little D in there lives staj is a good mentor but saying that I thought Hudler would stay awhile to keep the kids moving forward and mentor them a little more. Shows what I know the kids are doing just fine with out him. 

I think we say thank you to Stajan and move on.

[The_People1]

7 hours ago, MAC331 said:

I think Backlund allows Bennett the time to develop now and next season. I also think Lazar will be a far better winger for Bennett than Brouwer, which begs the question what to do with Brouwer ? I actually would reconsider bringing back Versteeg for a line of Versteeg, Bennett and Lazar.

I don't want to see Jankowski spend another season in Stockton, he would be better served growing along with this main core group next season. We have gotten all we need from Stajan, trade him.

 

I personally believe Brouwer had an influence in Versteeg coming here because Versteeg was offered a contract from the Oilers after his PTO with them.  Versteeg choose to play for the Flames.  If Brouwer goes in the off season, then I don't think Versteeg is coming back next year.  

 

I don't think he is coming back anyways because he will surely want a big raise but especially if we move Brouwer or Brouwer gets selected via the expansion draft.

 

I think once Lazar is healthy, he will get a shot on the top line RW with JG and SM. His speed could prove effective there.  

 

I'm torn on Backlund because Bennett has been so disappointing offensively.    I would consider moving forward with Backlund as our 2nd line Center at $6-mil-per (and keep his line intact long term).  Then run with Jankowski and Lazar as our 3rd and 4th line Centers.  I like Lazar as a C because we have no other RHS C in the lineup.  

 

Bennett would be traded for Noah Hanifin or equivalent.

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

I personally believe Brouwer had an influence in Versteeg coming here because Versteeg was offered a contract from the Oilers after his PTO with them.  Versteeg choose to play for the Flames.  If Brouwer goes in the off season, then I don't think Versteeg is coming back next year.  

 

I don't think he is coming back anyways because he will surely want a big raise but especially if we move Brouwer or Brouwer gets selected via the expansion draft.

 

I think once Lazar is healthy, he will get a shot on the top line RW with JG and SM. His speed could prove effective there.  

 

I'm torn on Backlund because Bennett has been so disappointing offensively.    I would consider moving forward with Backlund as our 2nd line Center at $6-mil-per (and keep his line intact long term).  Then run with Jankowski and Lazar as our 3rd and 4th line Centers.  I like Lazar as a C because we have no other RHS C in the lineup.  

 

Bennett would be traded for Noah Hanifin or equivalent.

I don't think either Brouwer or Versteeg are essential to next year's team. There may be the question forming about whether Bennett is best at C or LW heading into next season. I certainly wouldn't be trading Bennett. I'm not torn on Backlund at all I would like to see them extend and keep him.