The_People1 Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 Silver lining is he will be out of the line up. Ya another irony of all this is, Wideman probably needs to sit out about 10 games to recover from a mild concussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 Yeah I'm aware he's still on the roster was just saying with the remaining D men we have its gonna force one of them to eat up more minutes. Perhaps by juggling around some of the current pairings would generate some surprise chemistry we had either overlooked or just never attempted yet. Hamilton will likely see an increase in playtime which is great More Hammy is good. Smid every game is not something I really wanted to see. I actually think you will see Russell's minutes go back up again. Smid and Engelland will likely play 10 minutes or less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 Silver lining is he will be out of the line up. You keep saying this but he also plays some important minutes for us. Paycheck size aside I would take Wideman in my lineup over Russell all day every day. He moves the puck out of our zone well and isn't nearly the defensive liability you are trying to make him out to be. When our rebuild began Feaster asked Widman if he would like to find another team or stick with the Flames and their rebuild. He chose to stay and work with our rebuilding team. This tells me he is has contributed some leadership in the dressing room too. We could be a lot worse off too like the Oilers struggling with a prospect doing the same job only a lot worse in Jultz. Smid will be put into the lineup and everyone will have to pick up his minutes. Russell is already on verge of too many minutes already, you can't expect him to get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 One has to wonder how much better our Power play will be now. Hartley has been "trying to get him going" for over half a season. Now his hand will be forced. You keep saying this but he also plays some important minutes for us. Paycheck size aside I would take Wideman in my lineup over Russell all day every day. He moves the puck out of our zone well and isn't nearly the defensive liability you are trying to make him out to be. When our rebuild began Feaster asked Widman if he would like to find another team or stick with the Flames and their rebuild. He chose to stay and work with our rebuilding team. This tells me he is has contributed some leadership in the dressing room too. We could be a lot worse off too like the Oilers struggling with a prospect doing the same job only a lot worse in Jultz. Smid will be put into the lineup and everyone will have to pick up his minutes. Russell is already on verge of too many minutes already, you can't expect him to get better. If we were talking about a season ago I would be with you. But recently Wideman had been a third pairing D even strength who gets too much PP time. Hamilton will get more PP time and Wideman will be replaced on the third pairing even strength. I don't think this hurts us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 One has to wonder how much better our Power play will be now. Hartley has been "trying to get him going" for over half a season. Now his hand will be forced. If we were talking about a season ago I would be with you. But recently Wideman had been a third pairing D even strength who gets too much PP time. Hamilton will get more PP time and Wideman will be replaced on the third pairing even strength. I don't think this hurts us. Hamilton lacks passing awareness in the offensive zone though. This is so evident during 3-on-3 OT like, no-look-backhand dumps into the corner thinking he's got a guy there, that or he was making the "safe play" but man, it ends up being a brainfart pass that gives up possession with no pressure on him. That bothers me and I'm sure that bothers the coaching staff too. He makes similar mistakes on the PP, like when he's in full control of the puck at the point with time but has no passing options, he will dump the puck into an open corner to nobody in particular. Like really? That's his best read of the play? No patience? No creative effort to fake something and walk the line with the puck? Doesn't change the angle or anything? Just a dump in? Man... Maybe with video coaching, he will be able to see the X's and O's better and improve. He's simply just a Dman with a great shot which is good but sometimes a PP QB who has passing vision is a better option at the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 You keep saying this but he also plays some important minutes for us. Paycheck size aside I would take Wideman in my lineup over Russell all day every day. He moves the puck out of our zone well and isn't nearly the defensive liability you are trying to make him out to be. When our rebuild began Feaster asked Widman if he would like to find another team or stick with the Flames and their rebuild. He chose to stay and work with our rebuilding team. This tells me he is has contributed some leadership in the dressing room too. We could be a lot worse off too like the Oilers struggling with a prospect doing the same job only a lot worse in Jultz. Smid will be put into the lineup and everyone will have to pick up his minutes. Russell is already on verge of too many minutes already, you can't expect him to get better. We all have our favorites I guess however Wideman has never been good at defending and never will be. I wouldn't miss him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 Personally I have a hard time figuring that Wideman would do that intentionally without being somehow impaired from the previous hit. But he says he wasn't and unless symptoms arise .. It may have been a little unfair of the media to take this medical assessment from Dr. Wideman in the post-game interview. (while admitting that this is, in fact, their job) A little better media management could have really made a difference. Could this make the suspension longer? Yes. Suspensions are definitely influenced by public perception. But in a court of law? Completely inadmissible. Hopefully they decide on a suspension term, it's accepted without issue, and we can all just move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted February 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stubblejumper1 Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 Based on what we've just witnessed with the whole ASG fiasco and how the NHL handled John Scott (which with the players' help turned out great, BTW), I don't have a lot of confidence the NHL has a clue to the public perceptions and may dismiss Wideman with a very minor penalty, if any. Personally I have a hard time figuring that Wideman would do that intentionally without being somehow impaired from the previous hit. But he says he wasn't and unless symptoms arise since then how do you overrule that testimony? Messy situation, I think he should get 10 games. Wideman speaking to a reporter isn't testimony. With ~$500k on the line nothing he says can be taken at face value until he is under oath. I'm not saying he lied (or that he was telling the truth,) but when that kind of money is involved nobody admits fault without talking to a lawyer first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted February 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 Wideman speaking to a reporter isn't testimony. With ~$500k on the line nothing he says can be taken at face value until he is under oath. I'm not saying he lied (or that he was telling the truth,) but when that kind of money is involved nobody admits fault without talking to a lawyer first. It matters what he said... It isn't a court of law... It's a court of Bettman... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stubblejumper1 Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 It matters what he said... It isn't a court of law... It's a court of Bettman... Every player who does something dumb on the ice issues the standard "it wasn't a penalty/I didn't mean to do it/he put himself in a vulnerable position" statement to the media. If Bettman was stupid enough to believe these comments there would never be suspensions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted February 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 Every player who does something dumb on the ice issues the standard "it wasn't a penalty/I didn't mean to do it/he put himself in a vulnerable position" statement to the media. If Bettman was stupid enough to believe these comments there would never be suspensions. The point was that what Wideman "said/didn't say" could easily make a difference with discipline in regards to possible suspension... It would have been better if he had not spoken to the media... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 Hamilton lacks passing awareness in the offensive zone though. This is so evident during 3-on-3 OT like, no-look-backhand dumps into the corner thinking he's got a guy there, that or he was making the "safe play" but man, it ends up being a brainfart pass that gives up possession with no pressure on him. That bothers me and I'm sure that bothers the coaching staff too. He makes similar mistakes on the PP, like when he's in full control of the puck at the point with time but has no passing options, he will dump the puck into an open corner to nobody in particular. Like really? That's his best read of the play? No patience? No creative effort to fake something and walk the line with the puck? Doesn't change the angle or anything? Just a dump in? Man... Maybe with video coaching, he will be able to see the X's and O's better and improve. He's simply just a Dman with a great shot which is good but sometimes a PP QB who has passing vision is a better option at the point. I thought this too! Hamilton makes funny decisions when standing at the blueline, but while on a rush makes better decisions. I wondered about his decisions and the PP had no flow with him. But it's not just him as evidence of how poor the pp is. Even Gaudreau makes bad plays on the pp. a lot of them try force plays through a clogged slot and it burns us every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andymo Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 I don't think I'm being a homer here but I don't think Wideman should face any suspension. He'd taken a whack and was injured and clearly shaken. The collision was entirely accidental.The linesman's presence caught him unawares at the last possibly moment and he instinctively raised his hands to lessen the impact. Unfortunately, he happened to be holding a hockey stick! I don't think he finishes and check as I have heard suggested, I think momentum did that. His spacial awareness was hugely diminished and he was as suprised as the lino. It was a freak accident and there is no need to hold anybody accountable under the circumstance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 I don't think I'm being a homer here but I don't think Wideman should face any suspension. He'd taken a whack and was injured and clearly shaken. The collision was entirely accidental.The linesman's presence caught him unawares at the last possibly moment and he instinctively raised his hands to lessen the impact. Unfortunately, he happened to be holding a hockey stick! I don't think he finishes and check as I have heard suggested, I think momentum did that. His spacial awareness was hugely diminished and he was as suprised as the lino. It was a freak accident and there is no need to hold anybody accountable under the circumstance. Bottom line, you can't touch an official. Case closed and end of story IMO. Freak accident yes, but at the end of the day Wideman is reponsible for knowing who is on the ice and who he is making contact with. I don't think the issue here is holding Widmean accountable, its about staying with the precedent that officials are not to be touched and that is why he is going to get suspended. NHL is responsible for maintaining the standard that you don't touch officials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 Bottom line, you can't touch an official. Case closed and end of story IMO. Freak accident yes, but at the end of the day Wideman is reponsible for knowing who is on the ice and who he is making contact with. I don't think the issue here is holding Widmean accountable, its about staying with the precedent that officials are not to be touched and that is why he is going to get suspended. NHL is responsible for maintaining the standard that you don't touch officials. I know a 100 lawyers that would dispute this due to mental capacity at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 I know a 100 lawyers that would dispute this due to mental capacity at the time. The fact that he didn't come out of the game takes away his ability to argue, concussion or concussion like symptoms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheersMan Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 Bottom line, you can't touch an official. Case closed and end of story IMO. Freak accident yes, but at the end of the day Wideman is reponsible for knowing who is on the ice and who he is making contact with. I don't think the issue here is holding Widmean accountable, its about staying with the precedent that officials are not to be touched and that is why he is going to get suspended. NHL is responsible for maintaining the standard that you don't touch officials. Agreed, it doesn’t matter what happened before or after the incident. What matters is what happened at the time of incident. You don’t touch officials. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 nothing he says can be taken at face value until he is under oath. But what if he's not Christian? In regards to legal matters, a good lawyer should be able to bring doctors to the stand and have them explain to the judge that brain injury victims aren't always aware their brain is injured. Then after that, the lawyer can point to Wideman's post-game interview as nonsensical comments due to brain trauma during the game. Therefore, his entire post-game interview should be thrown out as evidence of anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 I know a 100 lawyers that would dispute this due to mental capacity at the time. This is not a legal matter. Wideman or one of the various associations could turn it into that if they wish but this is a private matter and not a legal matter so making a "legal" argument doens't matter becuase this process does not follow the "law" it follows the bylaws of the NHL. Different circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 Bottom line, you can't touch an official. Case closed and end of story IMO. Freak accident yes, but at the end of the day Wideman is reponsible for knowing who is on the ice and who he is making contact with. I don't think the issue here is holding Widmean accountable, its about staying with the precedent that officials are not to be touched and that is why he is going to get suspended. NHL is responsible for maintaining the standard that you don't touch officials. I believe that your synopsis is correct. Regardless of how they interpret his actions, he hit an official and they just cannot let that happen. This decision will set a precedent. Listening to CFR, the League is a little sympathetic to Wideman's situation and are not impressed by the way that this has been characterized as evil as an ISIS attack. So, they predicted 10 games one way or the other (i.e. up front or as a result of an appeal). Something has been wrong with Wideman all year long. His skating has been terrible, his decision-making looks impaired, and he is making few solid passes on the blue line. One thing he has always been good at is getting shots through from the point, and that is not happening often. So, I am not sure if a suspension at this point would be a punishment or a reward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted February 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 My take on it is a 2 or 3 game suspension would be fair... But this is the realm of Bettman, and the Zerbra's Association will be out for blood, so fair is a non factor... There was no call on the play, so there are no guidelines for a possible suspension... The Zebra's Association will try and demand at least 20 games... Anything above 6 games would create the possibility that Wideman could appeal the suspension to a neutral arbitrator... and that is why I doubt it will be any less, because that gives the league an out... If the arbitrator reduces or drops the suspension the league can say "We made the ruling and did our part and what the arbitrator decides is out of our hands"... Any less than 10 games will cause more controversy from the media (because that is what fills their coffers) and also opens up a can of worms with the Zebra's Association because they like to think that they should be omnipotent in this kind of situation when they want what they consider to be "justice"... If the Zebra's association thinks Wideman gets off the hook too easily and they feel that the league doesn't have their back, they could reciprocate by sending a message for a period of time that they might not have the leagues back either... They could do that by calling everything or calling nothing or "work to rule" starting with tonight's games... That would be a huge mistake, but I would not say it is out of the realm of possibility... If that happened there would be repercussions, and it would get ugly... 10 games is what I think the suspension will be... It would not be fair to fair to Wideman or the Flames, but it would not be the first or the last time the league got the length of a suspension wrong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 My take on it is a 2 or 3 game suspension would be fair... But this is the realm of Bettman, and the Zerbra's Association will be out for blood, so fair is a non factor... There was no call on the play, so there are no guidelines for a possible suspension... The Zebra's Association will try and demand at least 20 games... Anything above 6 games would create the possibility that Wideman could appeal the suspension to a neutral arbitrator... and that is why I doubt it will be any less, because that gives the league an out... If the arbitrator reduces or drops the suspension the league can say "We made the ruling and did our part and what the arbitrator decides is out of our hands"... Any less than 10 games will cause more controversy from the media (because that is what fills their coffers) and also opens up a can of worms with the Zebra's Association because they like to think that they should be omnipotent in this kind of situation when they want what they consider to be "justice"... If the Zebra's association thinks Wideman gets off the hook too easily and they feel that the league doesn't have their back, they could reciprocate by sending a message for a period of time that they might not have the leagues back either... They could do that by calling everything or calling nothing starting with tonight's games... That would be a huge mistake, but I would not say it is out of the realm of possibility... If that happened there would be repercussions, and it would get ugly... 10 games is what I think the suspension will be... It would not be fair to fair to Wideman or the Flames, but it would not be the first or the last time the league got the length of a suspension wrong... Seriously, out for blood ? I would expect the victim to put in a good word for Wideman, he knows it was unintentional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 Seriously, out for blood ? I would expect the victim to put in a good word for Wideman, he knows it was unintentional. Does he? Was it? I disagree, there is nothing from that play that makes it seem like it was unintentional. http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/west-coast-bias-what-the-officials-say-about-the-wideman-hit/ Wideman is getting no less than 10 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 I see both Freidman & Cox offering mitigating circumstances for Wideman on SN. Sure beats the "Hang Him High" attitude from some other writers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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