travel_dude Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 Not IMO. The official was there and he hit them. he didn't "run" into him he laid a full on check on him. He deliberately hit him and IMO its irrelevant as to whether or not he knew it was an official based on the rules. He finished a check and while I completely agree he didn't meant to cause any harm I think it was a deliberate action and based on the rules he needs to be suspended for 10 games. We keep harping on the fact that this was an official but what if it was a Predator like Wideman thought? Still woudl have been a dirty play and worth of a supsension so IMO that "he didn't know it was an ofifical" doesn't really fly. For me though this isn't even the biggest issue at play. Why was a player who clearly had suffered a head trauma allowed to stay in the game? Why was an official who was clearly injured allowed to continue? This is a real black mark on the whole issue of taking head trauma in professional sports seriously. I'm not sure how you can say it was deliberately applied to an official. If it was to a Pred, the rule does not apply. It only applies if is was deliberate to an official. That's all I am saying. How do you determine his intent to hit the official? He has to be aware that it's an official. If he was skating menacingly towards his bench and put his stick up and skated towards him, that would be obvious. I am neither defending his actions or supporting them, just looking at it from a pure "letter of the law" thing. There is enough reasonable doubt to give the league reason to let it pass. I realize it's not a court of law, but the principals enter into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 He hit an official. "Whoops" probably isn't going to fly as a reasonable defence. If it was I doubt you see him suspended today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xstrike Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 Not sure that's Hartley's reponsiblity, that to me is that Athletic trainer. but wasn't the NHL suppose to be putting spotters in the stands who could radio down to take players out? I was watching on tV and I could tell Wideman had suffered head trauma so why the heck couldn't anyone else? NHl clearly has a lot of work to do IMO around the issues of concussions and head trauma. Yeah, he was pretty dazed and out of it. I was really surprised they didn't at least take him to the room for a bit, let alone allow him to keep playing. I'm sure the competitor in him didn't want that, but safety first. Wideman says his head was down on the way to the bench. That isn't what the camera shows. It also didn't show an incidental bump. It showed a big ol shove. He also says he was dazed, but he looked just fine two seconds later and finished the game. I am sure this was a heat of the moment thing where he was a bit disorientated, a bit frustrated, and everything happened really fast. Wideman isn't a dirty player and I doubt this was truly intentional. But it was reckless and resulted in an official going to the hospital. He should be suspended imo. I disagree. From what I saw, he didn't realize there was anyone coming until last second. From there, it was reactionary. If you had a baseball come flying at you and noticed last second, you'd throw your arms up to block it by reflex. He looked dazed for well over two seconds. I was watching him and he seemed disoriented. He was blinking his eyes arrhythmical and I could tell he was trying to clear the fog. I've blacked out after a hit to the head during a game. If I had gotten up immediately and tried to skate off the ice like Wideman did, I would hardly have been able to skate let alone be aware of all my surroundings. So I disagree with you and the suspension, but what's done is done and I understand that they want to make sure to keep the officials safe too. I can accept the suspension. On the bright side, a D call up might finally get a chance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 You can disagree. But you have no idea what Wideman intended anymore then I do. What you are describing is a scenario that could have happened. Another scenario is that he skated with his head up and shoved someone in frustration. Who knows what's true. But what we do know is Wideman shoved an official and sent him to the hospital. The league has to react to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 I'm not sure how you can say it was deliberately applied to an official. If it was to a Pred, the rule does not apply. It only applies if is was deliberate to an official. That's all I am saying. How do you determine his intent to hit the official? He has to be aware that it's an official. While that specific rule does not apply to if he had hit a Pred, I would still say he is worthy of getting a suspension. Official or not he did something very dangerous and while it may not have been intentional it was a dangerous play that warrants a suspension. Maybe not 10 games (and according to Friedman that rule 40 doesn't apply anyway) but he will get a multiple game suspension and should iMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted January 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 The odd thing here, is that with three other zebras on the ice and not one of them saw a thing... The wounded zebra gets up, shakes it off and finishes the game... It was missed, and similar things happen to players all the time... How many zebras do they need so infractions are called more consistently and fairly?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 While that specific rule does not apply to if he had hit a Pred, I would still say he is worthy of getting a suspension. Official or not he did something very dangerous and while it may not have been intentional it was a dangerous play that warrants a suspension. Maybe not 10 games (and according to Friedman that rule 40 doesn't apply anyway) but he will get a multiple game suspension and should iMO. Since 40 doesn't apply, they can do whatever they want. Nothing. Fine. Suspension. The optics of it matter in this case. It looks like he hit on purpose from the reverse angle. No way to know if he was aiming for the official or at the last second put his hands up to hit something, not knowing if it was a Nashville player. Suspend him if he can't prove his innocence. What I don't get is why the play wasn't stopped after the hit to Wideman. Penalty or not, he was woozy. The refs are there as much to protect players as prevent fights and enforce other rules. And what was the coach thinking when he sat down? Didn't they notice Wideman was not right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlamesLogic Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 The replay doesnt show where his eyes were shortly before the impact which is an important part of it. Regardless he will get somewhere between 3-10 games just due to the way the rules are worded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Argus Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 I disagree. From what I saw, he didn't realize there was anyone coming until last second. From there, it was reactionary. If you had a baseball come flying at you and noticed last second, you'd throw your arms up to block it by reflex. I'd like to be able to agree with you, for Wideman's sake (and because I don't think he's a dirty player who would hit a ref under normal circumstances; he was definitely messed up from the hit). But when I watch the replay, it doesn't look like a "whoa, didn't see you there!" situation where he gets his hands up and runs into the ref. It looked like a pretty deliberate and aggressive shot to the back. Gotta agree with Cross. The biggest controversy, to me, is that Wideman wasn't flagged for the concussion protocol right away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 I'd like to be able to agree with you, for Wideman's sake (and because I don't think he's a dirty player who would hit a ref under normal circumstances; he was definitely messed up from the hit). But when I watch the replay, it doesn't look like a "whoa, didn't see you there!" situation where he gets his hands up and runs into the ref. It looked like a pretty deliberate and aggressive shot to the back. Gotta agree with Cross. The biggest controversy, to me, is that Wideman wasn't flagged for the concussion protocol right away. When I saw it happen last night, I thought it was accidental. When I watch it over and over, it looks like he abruptly turned away and push off to avoid the contact. I don't know if he knew he had pushed anyone down at that point. I'm sure he knew he made contact with someone. He doesn't even seem to know that the ref fell when they show him on the bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zima Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 To funny how Bios can you guys be if it was a player from another team like say Kassin you would surly agree it was purposely to say it was unintentional is Ludacris his stick was up and he cross checked him right in the head area. Weather he thought it was a Nash doesn't matter it was totally intentional he lie all he wants it will not fly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted January 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 If Wideman had just put up a his left arm to absorb contact, it would be a completely different scenario... But he was holding his stick with just his left hand then gets a hold of it with both hands raises it and gives a two handed shove with the stick... Then he lets go with his left hand and allows the stick to drop while holding it with his right as he goes through the bench door... and that's what the issue will be... Wideman trying to use the defense of not knowing it was a ref would also mean that he could have done the same thing to a team mate... Pretty hard to not notice the stripes too... As much as I hate to say it, dazed or not, bringing the stick up was wrong and it's probably going to earn him a suspension... What's worse is it will put the Flames down a man at a time when a suspension will be very costly... The thing to do would have been to push for the concussion protocol immediately, and Hartley could have initiated procedures for that to happen... The spotter in the crowd should have done so, and didn't... There was no whistle on the play, so one has to wonder why it didn't happen after the play, but it was likely missed when Wideman's head got bounced off the boards... A lot of us that have played a lot of hockey have wanted to deck a ref at one time or another... But typically chose not to as it would also cost the team... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickross Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 Hopefully he only gets between 3-5 games, anything more than that and we can forget about trading Wideman before the TDL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 Hopefully he only gets between 3-5 games, anything more than that and we can forget about trading Wideman before the TDL. Trading Wideman at the TDL is a long shot anyways. There are 13 games before the TDL so if he gets 12 or less we are good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted January 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 The hit from Salomaki that put Wideman head first into the boards should have resulted in a boarding penalty at the very least... If that had happened, the incident with the ref wouldn't have... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickross Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 I wonder if now they'll finally call up Nakladal ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted January 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 I wonder if now they'll finally call up Nakladal ... A suspended player still counts as a spot taken on the roster... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 Trading Wideman at the TDL is a long shot anyways. There are 13 games before the TDL so if he gets 12 or less we are good This incident is a liability, whether he gets a fine or multiple games. Most fans seemed to pretty polarized on this. Many would boo him if he was on their team. What is worse, is that we can't even replace him in the interim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheersMan Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 The NHL can not allow their officials to be physically abused, no matter what the circumstances. Incidental contact is unavoidable and happens all the time, but cross checking an official to the ice after skating 80 ft in a straight and unimpeded line is unacceptable. There wasn’t even one NAS player on the bench looking his way as he skated by, so there is no heckling to be blamed here either. This was a bone headed play that I think will cost Wideman near 10 games. For those who wanted Wideman removed from the roster (strictly because of his play) you will now have your wish……….enter Smid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertaBoy12 Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 The NHL can not allow their officials to be physically abused, no matter what the circumstances. Incidental contact is unavoidable and happens all the time, but cross checking an official to the ice after skating 80 ft in a straight and unimpeded line is unacceptable. There wasn’t even one NAS player on the bench looking his way as he skated by, so there is no heckling to be blamed here either. This was a bone headed play that I think will cost Wideman near 10 games. For those who wanted Wideman removed from the roster (strictly because of his play) you will now have your wish……….enter Smid. Im not sure why everyone keeps calling it a crosscheck. It might be semantics but its not a crosscheck in any way, raising your arms in the air is not a crosscheck..I think wideman will get punishment because of the face that it looks like he was annoyed after the hit and someone was in his way when he was going to bench didnt matter who it was. But at the same time I dont think it was any different then the weber hit linked earlier in this thread, did he get punished for that? Also this whole he didnt look remorseful on the bench is ridiculous, should he be crying on the bench? or sitting there looking worried when the official continued officiating in the game? I dont like wideman as a player, but this whole thing is getting ridiculous. Its wonderful this can be made a big deal but the hits to the head, crosschecks etc that lead to injuries no one cares about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheersMan Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 Im not sure why everyone keeps calling it a crosscheck. It might be semantics but its not a crosscheck in any way, raising your arms in the air is not a crosscheck..I think wideman will get punishment because of the face that it looks like he was annoyed after the hit and someone was in his way when he was going to bench didnt matter who it was. But at the same time I dont think it was any different then the weber hit linked earlier in this thread, did he get punished for that? Also this whole he didnt look remorseful on the bench is ridiculous, should he be crying on the bench? or sitting there looking worried when the official continued officiating in the game? I dont like wideman as a player, but this whole thing is getting ridiculous. Its wonderful this can be made a big deal but the hits to the head, crosschecks etc that lead to injuries no one cares about. Cross-checking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-checking Cross-checking is an infraction in the sport of ice hockey where a player checks an opponent by using the shaft of his or her stick with both hands. How many hands do you see on Wideman's stick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 You can disagree. But you have no idea what Wideman intended anymore then I do. What you are describing is a scenario that could have happened. Another scenario is that he skated with his head up and shoved someone in frustration. Who knows what's true. But what we do know is Wideman shoved an official and sent him to the hospital. The league has to react to that. The hospital was for precautionary purpose, quit making it sound like a major incident. Wideman was clearly dazed skating to the bench, he was even startled the official was in his line, tried to avoid him and couldn't. These are there actions of a person dazed just trying to get off the ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickross Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 It's a really strange play, it wasn't malicious but Widemen did look a tad disoriented skating back to the bench. It looks more so like he was frustrated at the official not calling a boarding call and took the frustration out on the ref on his way. This will hinder any trade options they may have had, good thing is Widemen has no priors so I'd assume most teams would she that into consideration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 This is one of those moments where I think we have to step back as fans of the Flames... And, look at this as fans of hockey. Or even, fans of organized sports. Then pause for a moment, And ask, What the? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 The hospital was for precautionary purpose, quit making it sound like a major incident. Wideman was clearly dazed skating to the bench, he was even startled the official was in his line, tried to avoid him and couldn't. These are there actions of a person dazed just trying to get off the ice. True or false? The official went to the hospital following the incident. It's a really strange play, it wasn't malicious but Widemen did look a tad disoriented skating back to the bench. It looks more so like he was frustrated at the official not calling a boarding call and took the frustration out on the ref on his way. This will hinder any trade options they may have had, good thing is Widemen has no priors so I'd assume most teams would she that into consideration Agreed. I hate it when fans make excuses for their own players. This thread reads like a Burrows thread on a Vancouver message board. He cross checked an official. The rest is semantics. He should be held accountable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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