Carty Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 We all know what Wideman did was stupid... There is no doubt he was rattled after the hit he took, but you just do not crosscheck a ref... Dazed or not, maybe the striped shirt should have been a clue it was not one of the Preds... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 We all know what Wideman did was stupid... There is no doubt he was rattled after the hit he took, but you just do not crosscheck a ref... I'm not really sure what an indefinite suspension pending a review after the All Star break means. First day back, he has a hearing with the NHLPA and NHL and the ruling is handed down? There are zero Flames games between now and Feb.2nd. Does he forfit pay, or is that only when the actual suspension is handed down? Does rule 1, 2 or 3 apply in this case? The funny thing about this tweet is that it came from TSN and isn't posted on the NHL.COM website. There wasn't even a mention of the hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 Addition by subtraction. Does Wideman being suspended open up a roster spot to call up someone from Stockton? Or does continue to take up a spot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 I'm not really sure what an indefinite suspension pending a review after the All Star break means. First day back, he has a hearing with the NHLPA and NHL and the ruling is handed down? There are zero Flames games between now and Feb.2nd. Does he forfit pay, or is that only when the actual suspension is handed down? Does rule 1, 2 or 3 apply in this case? There is no way that was deliberate and why can't they see that immediately. These NHL review panels must be full of idiots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 There is no way that was deliberate and why can't they see that immediately. These NHL review panels must be full of idiots. It's all about optics. Take a hard stand now, which is meaningless because there is no decision. Do the hearing, and "The Face" proclaims the suspension or lack of. If suspended, there would be an appeal. "The Face" will make final statement. Addition by subtraction. Does Wideman being suspended open up a roster spot to call up someone from Stockton? Or does continue to take up a spot? Hard to say. Torres shows up on the roster for SJS. Comparable would be Horcoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 Pending what kind of hearing? Phone (maximum 5 games) or in-person (minimum 5 games and up to unlimited)? Based on Wideman's own words, he was skating towards the bench and didn't see the linesman until the very last second and didn't know how to react so braced for impact, so to speak. The replays suggest something more damning though. It looks like he was skating towards the bench with his head up and knew full well the linesman was in his path. He gave the linesman a forceful "get outta my way". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 http://flamesnation.ca/2016/1/28/dennis-wideman-suspended-indefinitely-to-have-hearing-post-all-star-break The story has a little bit more info. He stays on the cap and roster with any suspension. Further wrinkle. Official was transported to the hospital, so the league likely has no choice but to formalize the review. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 There is no way that was deliberate and why can't they see that immediately. These NHL review panels must be full of idiots. When ever you accidentally run into something, then it's human nature to immediately look at what you just hit. (That's why it's so obvious David Steckel KO'd Crosby intentionally... but that's another topic for another day.) When you look at this replay, Wideman shoves the linesman and then just skates off the ice like you know, he didn't want to acknowledge something he knew he did rather than acknowledge something he didn't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 Its an indefinte suspension because they are going to suspend him but protocal dictates they have a hearing first so this way he stops getting paid immediately pending the hearing where he'll probably get at least 10 games. The rule book is pretty clear on the issue on contacting and official and intent or not is 10 games. I sympathize a bit with Wideman because I trust he didn't do it on purpose but at the end of the day he put a realy good hit on an official and you just can't do that. The rules don't allow for "unintentional" or "accidental" so i'm expecting to see him get 10 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 When ever you accidentally run into something, then it's human nature to immediately look at what you just hit. (That's why it's so obvious David Steckel KO'd Crosby intentionally... but that's another topic for another day.) When you look at this replay, Wideman shoves the linesman and then just skates off the ice like you know, he didn't want to acknowledge something he knew he did rather than acknowledge something he didn't know. If he was in a state of shock, he wouldn't even know what he had just done. Same goes for being concussed. He wouldn't be looking at where he just came from. It's like he didn't even realize he hit anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABC923 Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 Looked to me like he had tunnel vision heading for the bench. Saw the official at the last second and just reacted. It does look bad how he just left the ice, didn't seem to even be aware of what happened. I think he may have been concussed. Regardless, his reaction was not appropriate and a punishment is warranted. Minimum suspension according to league rules for abuse of official is ten games, so we can expect at least that here. Given the official went to hospital, it's likely going to be a 20 game suspension per the rules of abuse of official resulting in injury. Needless to say, if there was any chance he might be traded before the deadline, it is gone now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 Its an indefinte suspension because they are going to suspend him but protocal dictates they have a hearing first so this way he stops getting paid immediately pending the hearing where he'll probably get at least 10 games. The rule book is pretty clear on the issue on contacting and official and intent or not is 10 games. I sympathize a bit with Wideman because I trust he didn't do it on purpose but at the end of the day he put a realy good hit on an official and you just can't do that. The rules don't allow for "unintentional" or "accidental" so i'm expecting to see him get 10 games. Pretty hard to hard to say he deliberately hit an official. He hit an official, but you can't say 100% he knew he was hitting an official. The rules says "deliberately applies physical force in any manner to an official". The deliberate part is the hard part to argue. This one caught my eye. Accidental or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted January 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 It makes me wonder why there has not been any word yet on a possible suspension for Lucic... Looch "accidently" punched a ref in the face last night, and he was in his first game back after a one game suspension for sucker punching Yotes forward Connauton... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 Pretty hard to hard to say he deliberately hit an official. He hit an official, but you can't say 100% he knew he was hitting an official. The rules says "deliberately applies physical force in any manner to an official". The deliberate part is the hard part to argue. Not IMO. The official was there and he hit them. he didn't "run" into him he laid a full on check on him. He deliberately hit him and IMO its irrelevant as to whether or not he knew it was an official based on the rules. He finished a check and while I completely agree he didn't meant to cause any harm I think it was a deliberate action and based on the rules he needs to be suspended for 10 games. We keep harping on the fact that this was an official but what if it was a Predator like Wideman thought? Still woudl have been a dirty play and worth of a supsension so IMO that "he didn't know it was an ofifical" doesn't really fly. For me though this isn't even the biggest issue at play. Why was a player who clearly had suffered a head trauma allowed to stay in the game? Why was an official who was clearly injured allowed to continue? This is a real black mark on the whole issue of taking head trauma in professional sports seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 If he was in a state of shock, he wouldn't even know what he had just done. Same goes for being concussed. He wouldn't be looking at where he just came from. It's like he didn't even realize he hit anyone. If he was concussed, then the Calgary Flames could face fines and disciplinary action because they allowed Wideman to stay in the game rather than have him go to the "quiet room" under concussion protocols. Since he stayed in the game, then it would imply team doctors cleared Wideman of sustaining a concussion which removes any possible plea of momentary insanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted January 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 .We keep harping on the fact that this was an official but what if it was a Predator like Wideman thought? Still woudl have been a dirty play and worth of a supsension so IMO that "he didn't know it was an ofifical" doesn't really fly. If it had have been a Pred, would it be any different than what Weber did a number of times last night? There were other Preds crosschecking Flames off their skates a number of times as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FueltheFlames1075 Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 If he was concussed, then the Calgary Flames could face fines and disciplinary action because they allowed Wideman to stay in the game rather than have him go to the "quiet room" under concussion protocols. Since he stayed in the game, then it would imply team doctors cleared Wideman of sustaining a concussion which removes any possible plea of momentary insanity. I agree with Cross on the incident, completely. As for the failure to follow concussion protocol, and after hearing that the official went to the hospital, why was he allowed to continue as well? One has nothing to do with the other, however just an interesting thought. Also, Wideman would not be the first player to continue in a game concussed, so it does not completely dismiss that theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 If it had have been a Pred, would it be any different than what Weber did a number of times last night? There were other Preds crosschecking Flames off their skates a number of times as well... While I agree there should have been more penalties against the Preds that doens't change the scenario for me. First of all 2 wrongs don't make a right and had it been a Predator it would have been far away from the play to an unsuspecting player. Two completely different scenarios. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 I agree with Cross on the incident, completely. As for the failure to follow concussion protocol, and after hearing that the official went to the hospital, why was he allowed to continue as well? One has nothing to do with the other, however just an interesting thought. Also, Wideman would not be the first player to continue in a game concussed, so it does not completely dismiss that theory. I'm just saying though, it would've been good had the Flames pulled Wideman into the quiet room and/or taken him out of the game completely citing a head injury. Under that circumstance, Wideman can plea insanity with full medical support and evidence. Furthermore, Wideman was asked by reporters in his post game interview about whether or not he felt he suffered a concussion on that hit and Wideman paused for a moment to chose his words wisely because I think he knew he could've both gotten the team into a lot of trouble had he said he did (which is probably the truth). He didn't deny suffering a concussion specifically but he said he suffered a shoulder and neck injury and ended his answer there. So his testimony there might end up being his worst enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FueltheFlames1075 Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 I'm just saying though, it would've been good had the Flames pulled Wideman into the quiet room and/or taken him out of the game completely citing a head injury. Under that circumstance, Wideman can plea insanity with full medical support and evidence. Furthermore, Wideman was asked by reporters in his post game interview about whether or not he felt he suffered a concussion on that hit and Wideman paused for a moment to chose his words wisely because I think he knew he could've both gotten the team into a lot of trouble had he said he did (which is probably the truth). He didn't deny suffering a concussion specifically but he said he suffered a shoulder and neck injury and ended his answer there. So his testimony there might end up being his worst enemy. Very true. It is a double edged sword I guess. Either way, he made a big mistake and will likely suffer the consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 If it had have been a Pred, would it be any different than what Weber did a number of times last night? There were other Preds crosschecking Flames off their skates a number of times as well... That doesn't matter in this situation though. Right or wrong... It isn't the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted January 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 I'm just saying though, it would've been good had the Flames pulled Wideman into the quiet room and/or taken him out of the game completely citing a head injury. Under that circumstance, Wideman can plea insanity with full medical support and evidence. That was the same thing I was thinking last night right after it happened... Hartley missed the boat on that one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 That was the same thing I was thinking last night right after it happened... Hartley missed the boat on that one... Not sure that's Hartley's reponsiblity, that to me is that Athletic trainer. but wasn't the NHL suppose to be putting spotters in the stands who could radio down to take players out? I was watching on tV and I could tell Wideman had suffered head trauma so why the heck couldn't anyone else? NHl clearly has a lot of work to do IMO around the issues of concussions and head trauma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 Wideman says his head was down on the way to the bench. That isn't what the camera shows. It also didn't show an incidental bump. It showed a big ol shove. He also says he was dazed, but he looked just fine two seconds later and finished the game. I am sure this was a heat of the moment thing where he was a bit disorientated, a bit frustrated, and everything happened really fast. Wideman isn't a dirty player and I doubt this was truly intentional. But it was reckless and resulted in an official going to the hospital. He should be suspended imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted January 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 That doesn't matter in this situation though. Right or wrong... It isn't the same. I does matter. because the same rule book that is being used to suspend Wideman also says there were a number of calls that should have been made on the Preds... I also think that Wideman getting his head bounced off the boards just prior to the incident with the ref is why he was frustrated that there was no call and just wanted to get off the ice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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