Stockton Heat Updates [2016-2017]

[robrob74]

10 hours ago, xstrike said:

Worse is that if we had won, we would have been in the playoffs. 

 

It should be the goal for both teams to be. It’s why I wondered, years back when we sacrificed the farm to view their players in the NHL when they were fighting for a playoff spot. 

 

Whats more important? The NHL experience, or the urgency it takes to make the playoffs and the success/reward of getting in? 

 

I believe it’s the Colborne affect. It’s easy to play in games that don’t matter. So how much do you actually see? I also Baertschi looked like he’d be a perennial all star in his emergency stint and amounted to nothing for the Flames.

 

therefore, is it just for the fans’ gratification then? 

[DirtyDeeds]

37 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

It should be the goal for both teams to be. It’s why I wondered, years back when we sacrificed the farm to view their players in the NHL when they were fighting for a playoff spot. 

 

Whats more important? The NHL experience, or the urgency it takes to make the playoffs and the success/reward of getting in? 

 

I believe it’s the Colborne affect. It’s easy to play in games that don’t matter. So how much do you actually see? I also Baertschi looked like he’d be a perennial all star in his emergency stint and amounted to nothing for the Flames.

 

therefore, is it just for the fans’ gratification then? 

They are our farm team. They are waiting for the chance to play in the NHL not being groomed for the AHL playoffs.

 

If they perform well enough to make the AHL playoffs then great, but that goal was going to be a minute chance this season anyway. Kudos to them for getting so close, it must be a disappointment for them regardless.

[cross16]

The Flames primary goal of their farm team is to develop players for the NHL. That doesn't mean they don't want to make th playoffs, they do, but the primary goal is developing players. So that means putting specific players in certain situations that may sacrifice a win, but will help the players inter long term. They also refrain from a lot of AHL veteran type signing thst are typical of teams that have AHL success and instead play their prospects. 

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

The Flames primary goal of their farm team is to develop players for the NHL. That doesn't mean they don't want to make th playoffs, they do, but the primary goal is developing players. So that means putting specific players in certain situations that may sacrifice a win, but will help the players inter long term. They also refrain from a lot of AHL veteran type signing thst are typical of teams that have AHL success and instead play their prospects. 

 

We are grooming our players for failure then. Something that hasn’t changed in years. No playoff success in the A, no playoff or even NHL success at development. Sure we’ve developed a few players, but look at teams like Anaheim and San Jose who develop a Kase or other players  to fill their spots and take over to remain good. 

 

I think if you wanna build a winner, you gotta believe that and strive for that at all levels. I get the primary goal is nhl, but if your players aren’t successful down in the minors, how can you expect that to be the different in the nhl?

 

I watched the San Jose and Anaheim game last night and I agree with the Sharks commentators that the playoffs in the AHL make their players ready for playoffs in the bigs. You guys can have your opinion about it, but I feel strongly that it is necessary in order for this team to move forward. 

 

Tampa is another example of AHL success transforming to NHL success.

[cross16]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

 

We are grooming our players for failure then. Something that hasn’t changed in years. No playoff success in the A, no playoff or even NHL success at development. Sure we’ve developed a few players, but look at teams like Anaheim and San Jose who develop a Kase or other players  to fill their spots and take over to remain good. 

 

I think if you wanna build a winner, you gotta believe that and strive for that at all levels. I get the primary goal is nhl, but if your players aren’t successful down in the minors, how can you expect that to be the different in the nhl?

 

I watched the San Jose and Anaheim game last night and I agree with the Sharks commentators that the playoffs in the AHL make their players ready for playoffs in the bigs. You guys can have your opinion about it, but I feel strongly that it is necessary in order for this team to move forward. 

 

Tampa is another example of AHL success transforming to NHL success.

 

We're turning this into a black or what issue that it really isn't. The Choice is not winning or developing, nor do the Flames not want to win. The difference in their strategy is they won't bring in the AHL veterans. Typically when you look who has success in the AHL it's not teams that are rich in prospects, its full of guys whose NHL careers are over. Difference for the Flames is instead of signing those AHL veterans they want their prospects to play. 

 

For the the most part it's not a very strong link between AHL franchise success and the NHL. Even the crunch, Tampas affiliate, has missed the playoffs in 5 of the last 9 seasons. Hershey Bears are one of the more successful in the AHL but have provided very little in the way of prospects to the caps. 

Stockton wants to win, they just want to win with their own guys. 

[CheersMan]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

 

We are grooming our players for failure then. Something that hasn’t changed in years. No playoff success in the A, no playoff or even NHL success at development. Sure we’ve developed a few players, but look at teams like Anaheim and San Jose who develop a Kase or other players  to fill their spots and take over to remain good. 

 

I think if you wanna build a winner, you gotta believe that and strive for that at all levels. I get the primary goal is nhl, but if your players aren’t successful down in the minors, how can you expect that to be the different in the nhl?

 

I watched the San Jose and Anaheim game last night and I agree with the Sharks commentators that the playoffs in the AHL make their players ready for playoffs in the bigs. You guys can have your opinion about it, but I feel strongly that it is necessary in order for this team to move forward. 

 

Tampa is another example of AHL success transforming to NHL success.

Let’s chalk it up to yet another failing grade for BT and company this season with Stockton missing the playoffs.  This season has been a colossal failure from top to bottom.  Some here are becoming accustom to failures, but I’m curious to see in the coming days and weeks ahead if ownership feels the same way.     

[cross16]

Or maybe some of us are more realistic. 

 

Stockton lost their top two centres for almost the entire season (Jankowski to NHL and Hrvik to injury) lost their best player and top scorer for the last 2 months if the season due to injury, and then down the stretch lost 2 of their best dmen, top RW and their goalie to the NHL. Let alone the amount of call ups, specifically goalies, during the season and still were a win away from the playoffs. 

 

There's was also some very good growth in more than a few prospects. 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, CheersMan said:

Let’s chalk it up to yet another failing grade for BT and company this season with Stockton missing the playoffs.  This season has been a colossal failure from top to bottom.  Some here are becoming accustom to failures, but I’m curious to see in the coming days and weeks ahead if ownership feels the same way.     

 

Of all the things to blame on BT, I think the failure of the Heat is the last thing you should blame him for.

[DirtyDeeds]

57 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Or maybe some of us are more realistic. 

 

Stockton lost their top two centres for almost the entire season (Jankowski to NHL and Hrvik to injury) lost their best player and top scorer for the last 2 months if the season due to injury, and then down the stretch lost 2 of their best dmen, top RW and their goalie to the NHL. Let alone the amount of call ups, specifically goalies, during the season and still were a win away from the playoffs. 

 

There's was also some very good growth in more than a few prospects. 

Can't use injuries as an excuse Cross. Every team has injuries to deal with.

 

As for callups I can see that being a reason why they might have had worse results but other AHL teams don't have callups too?

[cross16]

38 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said:

Can't use injuries as an excuse Cross. Every team has injuries to deal with.

 

As for callups I can see that being a reason why they might have had worse results but other AHL teams don't have callups too?

 

Every team has injuries yes but the severity and ramifications differ. Tampa had a bunch of key injuries last year and missed the playoffs as a result. Injuries aren't an excuse but they are a reason. Again we are talking about a team that missed it by 1 win, wasn't like Stockton was terrible. 

 

I seem to recall Brad Pascall saying that they are one of the youngest teams in the AHL and I thought he said they said some of the higher player movement as well. 

[robrob74]

Then do we blame it on Conroy? 

 

It means they have to fill the lineup with some AHL vets who can fill in while others get calls. I dunno. Every team gets injuries. Anaheim had some key injuries this year but still managed to make the playoffs. 

 

We had growth, sure. But I think it just shows us that other teams are better at drafting and developing. 

[conundrumed]

I'm in complete agreement with cross.

Would I have liked to be able to have watched prospects in the playoffs?, most definitely.

I'm disappointed that I can't. But it's more precisely a development league. The +26 yo's, the Calder Cup is their chalice because they likely aren't going to be playing for a Stanley.

For the younger guys, it may even be better that they get their month off early and get busy in the gym and working on their strength and conditioning.

I watch the CHL much the same way. I have my team, just got beat out, but I don't get too down about it. It's 16-20 year old's so I treat it for what it is. It's loaded with mistakes but you have to expect that and not get too worried about it, they're just kids. Every team has great ones so I don't have much room for hate, outside of London, but that's jealousy, lol.

I'm sure every player has had playoff runs/international tourneys prior to turning pro and understand what pressure's all about. Same with the NHL, you'll hear, "playoff experience", but let's face it, everyone has it, just at different levels. But they were no less important to that player at that time.

[cross16]

14 hours ago, robrob74 said:

Then do we blame it on Conroy? 

 

It means they have to fill the lineup with some AHL vets who can fill in while others get calls. I dunno. Every team gets injuries. Anaheim had some key injuries this year but still managed to make the playoffs. 

 

We had growth, sure. But I think it just shows us that other teams are better at drafting and developing. 

 

If you want to "blame" someone it's Brad Pascall. He is Stockton's GM, not Conroy. Sure there are injuries but did the Ducks use 39 players and 7 different goalies this year? Stockton did. 

 

Again this is a catch 22 though. First off, its not easy to go out and get good veteran players once the season starts but Stockton did do that but again for every veteran player you get it cost your own prospects ice time. 

 

With Foo gone, Porier get's elevated and responds with 10 points in 8 games. 

With Mangiapane out, Brett Pollock put up 13 points in the final 20 games. 

Kylington with 8 points in the final 14 with Rasmus up here. 

Dube with a chance to play late and put up 4 assists in 6 games. 

Klimchuck with 11 points in his final 16 with Mangiapane out. 

 

For every veteran you sign it's going to cost your own prospect ice time so I again I don't think the equation is as simple as you make it. I'd much prefer those 5 players get the chance to fill in for the injuries/call ups then some guy who is will never make the NHL. 

 

This is not to say that I think the Flames are great at drafting or anything because honestly the AHL Is not always a great barometer of drafting success as quite often the successful teams down there are not due to draft picks, it's due to veteran AHL players. 

 

[travel_dude]

Just to add to this discussion.  

When Rittich returned from the Flames, he was not playing well.

The backup had gone 4-1, but was not played.

If you want to win, you go with the guy who is hot, not go to the "prospect".

Rittich went 2-4.

 

Although Rittich was the "starter" while Gillies was up, the decision seems to be more benefiting the Flames over going for the playoffs.

 

 

 

[cross16]

Looks like the list is capped at age 25, but Mangiapane led the AHL in goals per game last year. Foo makes an appearance on this as well. 

 

 

[travel_dude]

Brennan Klak‏ @nhlupdate

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#Flames RFA Daniel Pribyl signs with HC Sparta Praha (Czech Republic)

 

Can't speak as to the accuracy, but just posting since it sounds reasonable.  Haven't heard this reported anywhere else.

[cross16]

Likely true and not a shock. Back to back knee injuries makes it really tough to invest in a prospect. 

[JTech780]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

Brennan Klak‏ @nhlupdate

FollowFollow @nhlupdate

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#Flames RFA Daniel Pribyl signs with HC Sparta Praha (Czech Republic)

 

Can't speak as to the accuracy, but just posting since it sounds reasonable.  Haven't heard this reported anywhere else.

 

Elite prospects has him listed as playing for Sparta next year.

[JTech780]

6 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Likely true and not a shock. Back to back knee injuries makes it really tough to invest in a prospect. 

 

Especially considering skating was already a concern when he came over. It's tough when a prospect plays 33 games in 2 seasons and 0 this season.

[cross16]

I feel for him. Some really bad luck there that probably ended a chance at an NHL career. 

 

Touch break for both he and the Flames. I liked this signing, just too bad how it played out. 

[cross16]

With Huska now with the Flames Stockton needs a new head coach. This is actually a real positive side effect IMO of being able to promote Huska, as I think a new voice could really help some of the guys that have been there a few years.

 

Domenic PIttis would be the guy if they wanted to go the promotion route.Maybe reading to much into this, but interested that they didn't just promote him today if that was in fact they way they wanted to go. 

 

Troy Mann has a real solid AHL rep and did some good things in Hershey and was recently let go. Real good AHL success both in terms of winning and development.

 

I'd like to try and go the Marlies route though and grab a promising junior coach. Names like Trevor Letowski, Drew Bannister or John Gruden. 

[cross16]

and i'm wrong already... LOL

 

 

[travel_dude]

Adam Ollas-Mattsson will not be offered a contract by tomorrow, so he a free agent.

I was hoping he would turn into a better player, but it never happened.

Seems like after his appearance at the WJC he was never the same.

[JTech780]

 

[cross16]

No surprised after hearing the positive comments after Huska was promoted. Sounds like the organization is really high on him, and his track records even as a young coach is decent. 

 

Like the continuity. Would have gone a different direction, but this makes sense.