Brad Treliving - GM Tracking & Evaluation

[MAC331]

35 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Not always. My point is let's look at some variables becaue lots goes into it. When it comes to coaching you have a few guys at the top and the when you look at career wins it's a real mixed bag. 

Ron Wilson is at 10th, Paul Maurice 12th and Jacques Martin 17th. All "failes" in multiple situations. 

I think variables need to be considered. People disagree and that's fine. 

So is Gerrard a great coach or just a great coach for last season ?

[cross16]

32 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

So is Gerrard a great coach or just a great coach for last season ?

 

Guess we'll find out 

[phoenix66]

4 hours ago, MAC331 said:

So is Gerrard a great coach or just a great coach for last season ?

time will tell... I can say he had no answer for Washington in the playoffs . He can just easily be the next Bob Hartley.

[conundrumed]

3 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Guess we'll find out 

He's a player's coach.

You're allowed to make mistakes.

He coaches because he played under great coaches. Kept the good, left the bad.

He's likely the best coach in the league.

Players can youtube him, he isn't asking them to do more than he did. He gets how things can go wrong.

I think that's very important. He's really respected by his players.

[conundrumed]

If I'm a young player and my coach used to throw up 30-35 like this, I'm liking him.

He knows what it takes.

 

 

[rickross]

Brad Treliving is one interesting character. Every year he steals a headline, mostly for better than worse. He's now managed to refresh the Flames by acquiring Noah Hanifin, Elias Lindholm, Derek Ryan, Austin Czarnik and James Neal within a couple of weeks. Heavy lifting done! Love him or hate him, few GMs have displayed the savvy and gull when it comes to signings and trades. We'll see how these recent moves translate unto the ice but I'll give him him due once again if not for giving us something to talk about and looking forward to every draft and FA period anticipating his next big move. He's an exciting GM to have, you have to wonder how other teams are in awe of how consistently he's willing to gamble to improve his team. 

 

All his  moves haven't been smart or productive, GG, Bouma, Brouwer and buying out Mason Raymond in the end for example. He's  learned from most of his mistakes, I may not agree with term and AAV of every deal but none of his contracts are unmovable...not even Troy's! It's BT 2nd coach now so he needs this team to take that next big step...he's got more tools at his disposal and he's apparently found his coach. No more excuses for players, GMs or coaches on this team. 

[LouCifer]

3 hours ago, rickross said:

Brad Treliving is one interesting character. Every year he steals a headline, mostly for better than worse. He's now managed to refresh the Flames by acquiring Noah Hanifin, Elias Lindholm, Derek Ryan, Austin Czarnik and James Neal within a couple of weeks. Heavy lifting done! Love him or hate him, few GMs have displayed the savvy and gull when it comes to signings and trades. We'll see how these recent moves translate unto the ice but I'll give him him due once again if not for giving us something to talk about and looking forward to every draft and FA period anticipating his next big move. He's an exciting GM to have, you have to wonder how other teams are in awe of how consistently he's willing to gamble to improve his team. 

 

All his  moves haven't been smart or productive, GG, Bouma, Brouwer and buying out Mason Raymond in the end for example. He's  learned from most of his mistakes, I may not agree with term and AAV of every deal but none of his contracts are unmovable...not even Troy's! It's BT 2nd coach now so he needs this team to take that next big step...he's got more tools at his disposal and he's apparently found his coach. No more excuses for players, GMs or coaches on this team. 

 

Was going to write up something like this myself! I definitely appreciate having him as our GM! 

[rickross]

12 hours ago, lou44291 said:

 

Was going to write up something like this myself! I definitely appreciate having him as our GM! 

It's easy to take Treliving for granted as the Flames have yet to achieve any post season success. Sutter nor Feaster carried anywhere near BT's savvy, we've been spoiled with blockbuster trades the past few years, we've come to expect them now. The man is putting in work! It's at a point where if he didnt pull off a major deal every year...we'd probably start calling for his head! 

 

I appreciate how he quietly shakes things up. Everyone is talking Tavares, Leafs and Oreilly right now, meanwhile the Flames have positioned themselves to compete in the west in a matter of 2 weeks. It's smart to have all your pieces in place this early in the summer, we can't afford anymore slow starts to the season. Hopefully the familiarity with Peters and his Canes players makes the transition all the more seamless. 

[redfire11]

One thing about Trevling is I never thought I would be as excited as I am now about the season opener.

He is like a great Director of a blockbuster movie feeding us trailers.

I am hoping after I pay the price of admission this movie is not a bust.

[kehatch]

What I appreciate about Treliving is how level he is.

 

He went after Gulutzan, a new age analytics coach without a lot of NHL success. It would have been really easy to bring him back. It would have been really easy to go out and get a veteran coach. He could have got Sutter, Vigneault, maybe Trotz. Instead he fires Gulutzan and goes out and gets another new age analytics coach without a lot of NHL success, putting a target on his own back in the process. 

 

A lot of people hate that. But I respect someone who sticks to their guns and follows the plans despite the optics. 

[rickross]

25 minutes ago, kehatch said:

What I appreciate about Treliving is how level he is.

 

He went after Gulutzan, a new age analytics coach without a lot of NHL success. It would have been really easy to bring him back. It would have been really easy to go out and get a veteran coach. He could have got Sutter, Vigneault, maybe Trotz. Instead he fires Gulutzan and goes out and gets another new age analytics coach without a lot of NHL success, putting a target on his own back in the process. 

 

A lot of people hate that. But I respect someone who sticks to their guns and follows the plans despite the optics. 

I was skeptical (still am) of the Peters hiring. I do feel he's already suited to be a better coach but I'll wait until the seasons underway before playing judge. At the time I'd think I'd have preferred if BT went with the more household name coach, only so there'd be owness on the players. It was too easy to pit GG as the fall guy. I'm 100% willing to allow Peters to put his stamp on the team, hopefully BT new coaching gamble will pay dividends. 

[kehatch]

7 hours ago, rickross said:

I was skeptical (still am) of the Peters hiring. I do feel he's already suited to be a better coach but I'll wait until the seasons underway before playing judge. At the time I'd think I'd have preferred if BT went with the more household name coach, only so there'd be owness on the players. It was too easy to pit GG as the fall guy. I'm 100% willing to allow Peters to put his stamp on the team, hopefully BT new coaching gamble will pay dividends. 

 

I understand the skepticism and I am not trying to start a debate about the hire. The point is, that hire painted a target on Treliving that could cost him his job and future opportunities. But he had a plan and he stuck with it. 

 

Same thing with the Hamilton trade. He got rid of one of the big "feathers in his cap" when he traded Hamilton to Carolina. 

 

It's nice to have a GM that doesn't just talk about "bold moves" but actually makes them. It helps that his bold moves aren't the caliber of  trading Hall for Larsson. 

[MP5029]

I have to agree with most of the comments about BT, but would like to add, he seems to have a sensible and realistic approach which is new and very much needed here.  

 

I do agree, on paper even last year the results were far below the paper projections.... having said that, for the most part BT is doing well, and in fairness he’s not had the best of luck with on ice results, hopefully he can’t be unlucky all the time in that area, players have to also produce to expectations especially proven players you bring in by FA, Brewer is a prime example of this horrible season for him for whatever reason, But at the time BT made the move cause it was the best option and deal available and should have had better results 

 

by far my faforate and probably the best GM in recent years here 

[cross16]

9 hours ago, rickross said:

 only so there'd be owness on the players. It was too easy to pit GG as the fall guy.

 

There always should be. IMO anyone who puts failures on coaching, GM etc is making a cop out for the players. Whether your coach is Gulutzan, Peters, or frickin Mike Babcock the owness should always fall back on the players. 

 

I think we really need to move past this idea that coaches are these high and mighty people who can manipulate and "coach" their way to success. Pro sports are a players games and players win games, not coaches. 

[Cowtownguy]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

There always should be. IMO anyone who puts failures on coaching, GM etc is making a cop out for the players. Whether your coach is Gulutzan, Peters, or frickin Mike Babcock the owness should always fall back on the players. 

 

I think we really need to move past this idea that coaches are these high and mighty people who can manipulate and "coach" their way to success. Pro sports are a players games and players win games, not coaches. 

I generally agree with your assessment the vast majority of the time. I have often said that for the money these guys enjoy, they need to learn how to self-motivate. A coach cannot be held responsible for that. The theme of the current NHL, however, is parity. Any team, maybe even the Oilers and Canucks, can win on any given night. Thus, minor mistakes can be costly. I just thought that he overplayed Brouwer in the wrong places at the wrong times, was unwilling to consider changes, and overplayed Smith. We have debated this issue several times already and I am sure neither of us want to reopen that debate. I agree with you that coaches cannot make teams win, but they can make decisions where winning is far more difficult. 

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, Cowtownguy said:

I generally agree with your assessment the vast majority of the time. I have often said that for the money these guys enjoy, they need to learn how to self-motivate. A coach cannot be held responsible for that. The theme of the current NHL, however, is parity. Any team, maybe even the Oilers and Canucks, can win on any given night. Thus, minor mistakes can be costly. I just thought that he overplayed Brouwer in the wrong places at the wrong times, was unwilling to consider changes, and overplayed Smith. We have debated this issue several times already and I am sure neither of us want to reopen that debate. I agree with you that coaches cannot make teams win, but they can make decisions where winning is far more difficult. 

 

IE: Playing Brouwer in every situation & not playing your best offensive Dman on the PP... playing a goalie too often. Player and goalie usage.

[cccsberg]

16 hours ago, kehatch said:

 

I understand the skepticism and I am not trying to start a debate about the hire. The point is, that hire painted a target on Treliving that could cost him his job and future opportunities. But he had a plan and he stuck with it. 

 

Same thing with the Hamilton trade. He got rid of one of the big "feathers in his cap" when he traded Hamilton to Carolina. 

 

It's nice to have a GM that doesn't just talk about "bold moves" but actually makes them. It helps that his bold moves aren't the caliber of  trading Hall for Larsson. 

Yes very valid points.  Tre has a plan and is sticking to it, which I think is appropriate.  If it doesn't work out he will be replaced, if it does he'll be cemented in for the long term.  

[robrob74]

15 hours ago, cccsberg said:

Yes very valid points.  Tre has a plan and is sticking to it, which I think is appropriate.  If it doesn't work out he will be replaced, if it does he'll be cemented in for the long term.  

 

I feel like we’ve been drafting better, but better doesn’t mean very good. I hope he starts holding onto picks. We need those picks to develop into players in 4-5 years from now. That was the problem with the old team, they traded picks for players and then had nothing in the pump to refill the tank.

 

we have some now, but we aren’t billowing with top prospects either.

[MAC331]

15 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I feel like we’ve been drafting better, but better doesn’t mean very good. I hope he starts holding onto picks. We need those picks to develop into players in 4-5 years from now. That was the problem with the old team, they traded picks for players and then had nothing in the pump to refill the tank.

 

we have some now, but we aren’t billowing with top prospects either.

Does any franchise have layers of top prospects in hockey ? I don't think so, it seem if they can offer something sooner than later at the NHL level they are there. I actually think we are in good shape for a few years with the exception of RHS-RD types.

[robrob74]

16 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Does any franchise have layers of top prospects in hockey ? I don't think so, it seem if they can offer something sooner than later at the NHL level they are there. I actually think we are in good shape for a few years with the exception of RHS-RD types.

 

I think we are ok, but we need to start keeping our picks to replenish the system in a few years. We have a decent first line, a decent 2nd and possibility on the 3rd line.  

[MAC331]

1 minute ago, robrob74 said:

 

I think we are ok, but we need to start keeping our picks to replenish the system in a few years. We have a decent first line, a decent 2nd and possibility on the 3rd line.  

I agree but I also think BT used the picks he did to address definite immediate needs in order to ice a decent team. I like the adds so far this offseason and see where we can back the system up so we have quality depth and room for development.

[kehatch]

2 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

I think we are ok, but we need to start keeping our picks to replenish the system in a few years. We have a decent first line, a decent 2nd and possibility on the 3rd line.  

 

I agree.  But, the team has done a good job keeping the cupboard stocked despite the lack of picks. In part through strong drafting, in part through acquiring players like Foo.  Also, the team gets a bit of a pass given the number of young impact players on the roster. 

[Flyerfan52]

I know BT is dealing with Hanifin & other current RFAs right now but I wonder about if he's devoted much time to starting negotiations with Tkachuk. IMO he's by far the most important of the pending RFAs in the next 2 years.

Add to that he has a need to find a goalie of the future unless he's really confident 1 of the current prospects (so little NHL experience) can fill the shoes of a starter within the next year or 2 as @ 36 Smith is a stopgap.

Chevy is doing the same balancing act in Wpg. with the current Trouba fiasco, a few other RFAs (some pending arbitration) while having to think of Laine & Connor as RFA next year while Captain Wheeler (straw that stirs the drink & settled Laine down after that unfortunate own net goal) & led all RWs in assists & 3rd in points.

 

Being an armchair GM is easy but with the # of balls the NHL 1s have in the air @ any time they have a tough job. We propose trades & offer opinions why they'd work but these guys deal with real people & personalities.

 

 

[phoenix66]

Just now, Flyerfan52 said:

I know BT is dealing with Hanifin & other current RFAs right now but I wonder about if he's devoted much time to starting negotiations with Tkachuk. IMO he's by far the most important of the pending RFAs in the next 2 years.

Add to that he has a need to find a goalie of the future unless he's really confident 1 of the current prospects (so little NHL experience) can fill the shoes of a starter within the next year or 2 as @ 36 Smith is a stopgap.

Chevy is doing the same balancing act in Wpg. with the current Trouba fiasco, a few other RFAs (some pending arbitration) while having to think of Laine & Connor as RFA next year while Captain Wheeler (straw that stirs the drink & settled Laine down after that unfortunate own net goal) & led all RWs in assists & 3rd in points.

 

Being an armchair GM is easy but with the # of balls the NHL 1s have in the air @ any time they have a tough job. We propose trades & offer opinions why they'd work but these guys deal with real people & personalities.

 

 

I recall reading something recently that said the 2 sides had " touched base ".   ..Id imagine anything deeper will happen once the RFA 's are looked after 

[travel_dude]

5 minutes ago, Flyerfan52 said:

I know BT is dealing with Hanifin & other current RFAs right now but I wonder about if he's devoted much time to starting negotiations with Tkachuk. IMO he's by far the most important of the pending RFAs in the next 2 years.

 

 

All I can go by is that he says he is working on getting this going.  I suspect he's already talked with the agent, but there is no real time for serious discussions right now.  Hanifin is a tough deal.  Chia saves time by just agreeing to whatever the player wants for however long.  Trade away players when you need space or have lost the season and need to guarantee a bottom 5 finish (even with McJezzub).