Brad Treliving - GM Tracking & Evaluation

[Flyerfan52]

7 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

I recall reading something recently that said the 2 sides had " touched base ".   ..Id imagine anything deeper will happen once the RFA 's are looked after 

Thanks phoenix & td.

I spot check the Herald but have seen nothing. I figured other media in Calgary might have talked about it.

 

We have Illegal Curve out here which is an accredited radio show (they have the freebies in the press box & access during player/management availability) that is a private station/site devoted to all things Jets. They seem to have their finger on the teams pulse more than those that work for better known media. Run/owned by 4 young guys that started doing this as university students I pretty much trust them more than the talking heads & scribes. They do give links to those on site but balance with links to the media that covers the opponent. I never see idle speculation from them as they seem straight shooters.

I was hoping you had similar out there.

[rickross]

The man stays busy! Noticing his name keeps popping as it has been a crazy start to the off season. Lots of debate over his recent moves, I'll summarize a quick view over his body of work...lets chop it up if u will!

 

THE BAD

 

CONTRACTS

Mason Raymond, Lance Bouma and of course our favourite Troy Brouwer signings are proven missteps by Treliving. Bouma came off a career year understandably but still a gross overpayment, Brouwer I can't put full blame on BT as the market did command the price at a position the flames were desperate to fill...RW. I believe Brouwer came here to retire and it crept into his play, the league flipped on him overnight and the youthful speed of the game is leaving him behind. BT couldn't have foreseen such a drastic decline so the knock is more so for conceding with his buyout. Let's just forget about Raymond and Lack altogether like they were never even here. Not including Baer and Grandlund either...I feel that was more of Burkes input. 

 

BENCH

Running 4 goalies in Ramo, Hiller, Ortio and Backstrom was poor management and played its part in setting us back after coming off a season with a playoff berth under Hartley. We became an inconsistent and unstable mess, it was a poor solution to resolve the most important position by BT. 

 

This leads to the hiring of Glen Gulutzan. I never believed GG was capable of being THE COACH to guide this team to a Cup, he always seemed like more of a 'stop gap'solution. I get BT is a gambler but by taking a chance on an unproven coach with only a few NHL years of head coaching...cost us a lot of picks in the process and was essential a waste of time. This ones on BT and it's a big one. 

 

TRADES

 

Acquiring Dougie Hamilton, Hamonic, Lindholm, Hanifin, Lazar, Smith and Elliott are all household name returns that came at the cost of high draft picks. BT has overpaid in draft picks. I'll get to the trades on the flip side but there's no doubt it's really cost the Flames some potential prime prospects over the last few years. Those types of returns don't come cheap but they haven't all panned out well. BT gets a bit of a knock here for some overpayment in futures. 

 

 

THE GOOD!!!!!

 

CONTRACTS

Brad has done more good than bad here. He's gotten better throughout his tenure and has been consistently signing great value and term contracts. Considering no one makes more than $6.75M on this team is impressive, there's a ton of core depth all at value prices. He's a shrewed negotiator as Brent Kulak just learnt. I trust him now to not sign any ludicrous cap handcuffing deals, that's It'll be interesting to see where Hanifin and Tkachuk land but for those thinking he'll pay Tkachuk $7M, I'm pretty sure it's been their philosophy to not earn more than the team Captain. He's been one of the best GMs overall in terms of signings/resignings. 

 

He's managed to overhaul this team within just this off season, he's done a great job bringing in some key new additions and I can't give him enough credit for the work he continues to put in. Our team consistently steals headlines because of him, he's made the Flames an exciting and active team in the NHL. 

 

BENCH

 

He's now on his 2nd coach. I already threw shade on him for signing GG but I'll atleast give him credit for not hesitating to get rid of him and finding a swift although still controversial replacement in Bill Peters. He's willing to give his team a new voice and has been more proactive than reactive in that regard. We'll see how Peters manages things before we can assess BT's ability to pick a coach. Regarding the bench he's done a good job with the scouts drafting some quality prospects, we've got a decent balance of young players in the ranks. 

 

TRADES

He's brought in Hamilton, Hanifin, Lindholm, Smith and Hamonic to name a few, via trade. It's a pretty impressive list of players to acquire. Yes, there were costs but I can't fault the man for trying and succeeding. Hamonic could still pan out and his contract value is one of the friendliest in the NHL. He's not afraid to swing for the fences and he's never one to sit idle. Not all trades work out but just the fact that he's able to get these trades negotiated and finalized is impressive. In this cap system you need to be savvy and BT finds ways to improve his team on a consistent basis. 

 

Overall, I think he's done a very good job managing the Flames. He's not perfect but he's been very good in most facets of the job. I don't worry about him making bone headed or rushed decisions like other GMs, that was much of the Feaster era lol. He signs good deals and acquires good players. There have been some mistakes along the way but he's proven he can evolve and learn from them. That's key. I still rate him as one of the best GMs around!

 

 

 

 

[Cowtownguy]

When Treliving bought out Brouwer, I wonder if he had to consult ownership. I can see owners getting cranky when you acquire a guy at that price point and then send him packing with a big bag of cash.

[The_People1]

5 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said:

When Treliving bought out Brouwer, I wonder if he had to consult ownership. I can see owners getting cranky when you acquire a guy at that price point and then send him packing with a big bag of cash.

 

Ya cross posted earlier.  Owners weren't willing to buyout Brouwer until after we got Neal.  

[cccsberg]

56 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said:

When Treliving bought out Brouwer, I wonder if he had to consult ownership. I can see owners getting cranky when you acquire a guy at that price point and then send him packing with a big bag of cash.

If he is replaced by a guy on an ELC the overall costs are pretty much the same, likely even $1-2mm less than keeping Brouwer.  The owners pay less and the team gets better.  They are probably rejoicing.....

[rickross]

I felt a guy like Lomberg would be more effective than Brouwer, doesn't have the same size but he plays with a ton more heart. Let's just hope that James Neal IS the Real Deal and doesn't become the next Brouwer

[Cowtownguy]

35 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

If he is replaced by a guy on an ELC the overall costs are pretty much the same, likely even $1-2mm less than keeping Brouwer.  The owners pay less and the team gets better.  They are probably rejoicing.....

I dunno man, that sounds a lot like my ex's logic. "Honey, I know that I just spent your entire paycheque at Shoppers Drug Mart, but with all of the points I got, we saved just as much. Your welcome!"

[sak22]

3 hours ago, rickross said:

The man stays busy! Noticing his name keeps popping as it has been a crazy start to the off season. Lots of debate over his recent moves, I'll summarize a quick view over his body of work...lets chop it up if u will!

 

THE BAD

 

CONTRACTS

Mason Raymond, Lance Bouma and of course our favourite Troy Brouwer signings are proven missteps by Treliving. Bouma came off a career year understandably but still a gross overpayment, Brouwer I can't put full blame on BT as the market did command the price at a position the flames were desperate to fill...RW. I believe Brouwer came here to retire and it crept into his play, the league flipped on him overnight and the youthful speed of the game is leaving him behind. BT couldn't have foreseen such a drastic decline so the knock is more so for conceding with his buyout. Let's just forget about Raymond and Lack altogether like they were never even here. Not including Baer and Grandlund either...I feel that was more of Burkes input. 

 

BENCH

Running 4 goalies in Ramo, Hiller, Ortio and Backstrom was poor management and played its part in setting us back after coming off a season with a playoff berth under Hartley. We became an inconsistent and unstable mess, it was a poor solution to resolve the most important position by BT. 

 

This leads to the hiring of Glen Gulutzan. I never believed GG was capable of being THE COACH to guide this team to a Cup, he always seemed like more of a 'stop gap'solution. I get BT is a gambler but by taking a chance on an unproven coach with only a few NHL years of head coaching...cost us a lot of picks in the process and was essential a waste of time. This ones on BT and it's a big one. 

 

TRADES

 

Acquiring Dougie Hamilton, Hamonic, Lindholm, Hanifin, Lazar, Smith and Elliott are all household name returns that came at the cost of high draft picks. BT has overpaid in draft picks. I'll get to the trades on the flip side but there's no doubt it's really cost the Flames some potential prime prospects over the last few years. Those types of returns don't come cheap but they haven't all panned out well. BT gets a bit of a knock here for some overpayment in futures. 

 

 

The contracts no doubt weren't good especially when all three were bought out, but hindsight is always 50/50.  Timing of the Raymond signing at LW we had an expiring Glencross who would only sign an extension at a much higher price, Bouma and Bollig.  Treliving was new to the job and didn't seem to want to depend on Gaudreau or Baertschi, which I understand let them earn it.  The goal that season was competitive but expectations weren't to be a playoff contender or in the playoffs, he started okay then got hurt and got lost on the depth chart due to others exceeding expectations and is a guy who can put up decent numbers if playing with good players in a top 6, but useless in a bottom 6 role.  His buyout only hurt the owners pockets.  Bouma I don't think was a gross overpayment based off his career year, the issues I had with Bouma was it seemed like he had no interest in earning it, I didn't expect the production from '15 to ever return but the effort completely vanished as well.  Brouwer came in as a need and didn't perform, the far less ideal buyout of the three, 3 bad contracts but neither of them proved to be any type of anchor.  I'll let t,he Neal, Ryan and Czarnik signings play out a bit before I truly judge him on UFA's.  With the exception of Bouma, he's done extremely well with RFA's IMO.

 

Small note though is that Backstrom was a throw in to get rid of Jones and at that time Ramo had a season ending injury.  I kinda blame the Ramo-Hiller-Ortio situation on Hartley, I think his decision to have Hiller and Ramo play until they lose caught up with both of them and didn't give an indication on whether Brad should have shopped one during the offseason.

 

Trades I don't like the cost to acquire Hamonic, don't mind the player but gross overpayment.  And I don't like the Lazar move.  The others I can live with, but would throw in that I think he did good at maximizing value on expiring players like Glencross, Hudler, and Russell.

 

Finally to end my rambling, I'd like to mention what I think is the most important thing to judge him on and that is drafting. This is where Riser, Coates, Button, Sutter and Feaster before him have failed this team and why we only have 7 playoff appearances in the last 20 years.  Right now '14 is a complete failure, the rest are still early to judge, but I'd say there is still potential in '15 to have 3 NHLers, '16 I think could still be a good year if Parsons and Dube pan out, '17 I think we got a player in the first time will tell with the rest and '18 I think we might have done okay despite a lack of picks.  Overall I like Brad and think he's done the best job since Fletcher, but the results need to back it up.

[robrob74]

3 minutes ago, sak22 said:

The contracts no doubt weren't good especially when all three were bought out, but hindsight is always 50/50.  Timing of the Raymond signing at LW we had an expiring Glencross who would only sign an extension at a much higher price, Bouma and Bollig.  Treliving was new to the job and didn't seem to want to depend on Gaudreau or Baertschi, which I understand let them earn it.  The goal that season was competitive but expectations weren't to be a playoff contender or in the playoffs, he started okay then got hurt and got lost on the depth chart due to others exceeding expectations and is a guy who can put up decent numbers if playing with good players in a top 6, but useless in a bottom 6 role.  His buyout only hurt the owners pockets.  Bouma I don't think was a gross overpayment based off his career year, the issues I had with Bouma was it seemed like he had no interest in earning it, I didn't expect the production from '15 to ever return but the effort completely vanished as well.  Brouwer came in as a need and didn't perform, the far less ideal buyout of the three, 3 bad contracts but neither of them proved to be any type of anchor.  I'll let t,he Neal, Ryan and Czarnik signings play out a bit before I truly judge him on UFA's.  With the exception of Bouma, he's done extremely well with RFA's IMO.

 

Small note though is that Backstrom was a throw in to get rid of Jones and at that time Ramo had a season ending injury.  I kinda blame the Ramo-Hiller-Ortio situation on Hartley, I think his decision to have Hiller and Ramo play until they lose caught up with both of them and didn't give an indication on whether Brad should have shopped one during the offseason.

 

Trades I don't like the cost to acquire Hamonic, don't mind the player but gross overpayment.  And I don't like the Lazar move.  The others I can live with, but would throw in that I think he did good at maximizing value on expiring players like Glencross, Hudler, and Russell.

 

Finally to end my rambling, I'd like to mention what I think is the most important thing to judge him on and that is drafting. This is where Riser, Coates, Button, Sutter and Feaster before him have failed this team and why we only have 7 playoff appearances in the last 20 years.  Right now '14 is a complete failure, the rest are still early to judge, but I'd say there is still potential in '15 to have 3 NHLers, '16 I think could still be a good year if Parsons and Dube pan out, '17 I think we got a player in the first time will tell with the rest and '18 I think we might have done okay despite a lack of picks.  Overall I like Brad and think he's done the best job since Fletcher, but the results need to back it up.

 

I live inVancouver so I had an idea in what kind of player Raymond was, he isn’t a guy I’d ever sign. He has tools but he is soft and very streaky. Hindsight isn’t 50/50 for me in this case. I’d have 100% not signed Raymond and even said as much on these boards at the time. 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

 

I live inVancouver so I had an idea in what kind of player Raymond was, he isn’t a guy I’d ever sign. He has tools but he is soft and very streaky. Hindsight isn’t 50/50 for me in this case. I’d have 100% not signed Raymond and even said as much on these boards at the time. 

 

I had that opinion as well.  Ex-Nuck.  Warning bells.

He managed to have a good season in TO, but so what.

I was okay with BMo, but he was at the end of his career and was still a decent guy.

[robrob74]

8 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I had that opinion as well.  Ex-Nuck.  Warning bells.

He managed to have a good season in TO, but so what.

I was okay with BMo, but he was at the end of his career and was still a decent guy.

 

Ya, BMo was likeable. He had an ok year but we hoped he could duplicate it. 

 

 

[rickross]

5 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I had that opinion as well.  Ex-Nuck.  Warning bells.

He managed to have a good season in TO, but so what.

I was okay with BMo, but he was at the end of his career and was still a decent guy.

Raymond was coming off a serious back injury..broken vertebrae I believe. He had a typical peak year during a contract season and got hurt. BT rolled the dice on him in the middle of a rebuild...Raymond was known for his speed so Treliving was likely taking that plus his experience into play. It failed so hard though. It's all gravy now, bridge under the water...Mason from Cochrane...I still check that ice cream store from time to time so that should balance things out lol

 

[Going4TheCup]

I think if the Flames make the playoffs AND Treliving signs or trades for a starting goaltender after this season he will keep his job. For the most part I think he has done a good job and I think that Bill Peters will make the Flames players accountable. Bill's system is pretty good and I think it compliments the Flames. We will see.

[conundrumed]

He's yet to build a contender so he currently has a failing grade.

Throwing picks for the Hams is fine if that's where you are as a team.

But we weren't there so it turns into more filler in a wall full of holes.

Why he didn't address the forward ranks earlier is beyond me. It was evident to EVERYONE that there wasn't enough skill here.

He turned goaltending into a fiasco to the point BH is telling the media he's NOT carrying 3 goalies. It was obviously out of his hands.

I think what will lead to his demise is he's too cerebral and too tied to known commodities.

What I mean by that, is he overthinks solutions and the latest example of hiring a coach and bringing 3 of his players in (so far).

Quite honestly, he has me scratching my head.

We missed the playoffs last year because that isn't a playoff roster. Just consider how many games Smith won. If not for that, the Isles would have gotten one helluva pick.

Time to stop glorifying what has actually been failings to the point he's now repairing his earlier paintings.

He did a lot this summer, but we are definitely NOT automatically better, we only SHOULD be.

If last year taught us anything, we just weren't a good team.

[Going4TheCup]

23 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

He's yet to build a contender so he currently has a failing grade.

Throwing picks for the Hams is fine if that's where you are as a team.

But we weren't there so it turns into more filler in a wall full of holes.

Why he didn't address the forward ranks earlier is beyond me. It was evident to EVERYONE that there wasn't enough skill here.

He turned goaltending into a fiasco to the point BH is telling the media he's NOT carrying 3 goalies. It was obviously out of his hands.

I think what will lead to his demise is he's too cerebral and too tied to known commodities.

What I mean by that, is he overthinks solutions and the latest example of hiring a coach and bringing 3 of his players in (so far).

Quite honestly, he has me scratching my head.

We missed the playoffs last year because that isn't a playoff roster. Just consider how many games Smith won. If not for that, the Isles would have gotten one helluva pick.

Time to stop glorifying what has actually been failings to the point he's now repairing his earlier paintings.

He did a lot this summer, but we are definitely NOT automatically better, we only SHOULD be.

If last year taught us anything, we just weren't a good team.

Well the Flames made the playoffs before last season because the Flames have/had talent. I blame last season to Glen Gulutzan because he seemed to lose the Flames players, had a crappy defensive system and NEVER took a timeout when needed. Sure Brad Treliving made some mistakes but he did try to make the team better with some players that did not work out like Raymond, Bouma and Brouwer. I don't think he could have made the trade for Lindholm and Hanafin sooner because maybe the Flames recently got sick of Hamilton's behavior. 

[DirtyDeeds]

23 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

He's yet to build a contender so he currently has a failing grade.

Throwing picks for the Hams is fine if that's where you are as a team.

But we weren't there so it turns into more filler in a wall full of holes.

Why he didn't address the forward ranks earlier is beyond me. It was evident to EVERYONE that there wasn't enough skill here.

I would venture a guess is he didn't address that because he was addressing the back end first. Look to Oilers for what happens when you build from forwards back. When he acquired Hamilton it put us right up against the cap. He had no more flexibility to address the scoring. Backs line and Moneys line were both scoring at that time.

 

23 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

He turned goaltending into a fiasco to the point BH is telling the media he's NOT carrying 3 goalies. It was obviously out of his hands.

He carried 3 goailes because he did not want to risk waivers on Ortio. He admitted it was his mistake at end of season.

 

I think what will lead to his demise is he's too cerebral and too tied to known commodities.

What I mean by that, is he overthinks solutions and the latest example of hiring a coach and bringing 3 of his players in (so far).

Quite honestly, he has me scratching my head.

We missed the playoffs last year because that isn't a playoff roster. Just consider how many games Smith won. If not for that, the Isles would have gotten one helluva pick.

Time to stop glorifying what has actually been failings to the point he's now repairing his earlier paintings.

He did a lot this summer, but we are definitely NOT automatically better, we only SHOULD be.

If last year taught us anything, we just weren't a good team.

I like most of what he has done this off season. 

 

I like to bash BT too but I do admire he tries to swing for the fences. Can't deny he is trying.

[robrob74]

8 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said:

 

I like most of what he has done this off season. 

 

I like to bash BT too but I do admire he tries to swing for the fences. Can't deny he is trying.

 

To me, that’s why overspending is a bad thing. We had to buy out Brouwer to sign a player.

 

then it was having Stajan on a bad deal. Maybe more. But spending to the cap can kill. 

 

 

[Cowtownguy]

26 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

He's yet to build a contender so he currently has a failing grade.

Throwing picks for the Hams is fine if that's where you are as a team.

But we weren't there so it turns into more filler in a wall full of holes.

Why he didn't address the forward ranks earlier is beyond me. It was evident to EVERYONE that there wasn't enough skill here.

He turned goaltending into a fiasco to the point BH is telling the media he's NOT carrying 3 goalies. It was obviously out of his hands.

I think what will lead to his demise is he's too cerebral and too tied to known commodities.

What I mean by that, is he overthinks solutions and the latest example of hiring a coach and bringing 3 of his players in (so far).

Quite honestly, he has me scratching my head.

We missed the playoffs last year because that isn't a playoff roster. Just consider how many games Smith won. If not for that, the Isles would have gotten one helluva pick.

Time to stop glorifying what has actually been failings to the point he's now repairing his earlier paintings.

He did a lot this summer, but we are definitely NOT automatically better, we only SHOULD be.

If last year taught us anything, we just weren't a good team.

So much happens behind the scenes that I find it difficult to evaluate his performance. The lack of offence was obvious though. Perhaps the idea was to build an impenetrable defence and let Brouwer, Johnny, and Monahan get one goal to win 1-0. Obviously, that never happened. The biggest error IMO was hiring and keeping GG. There was something seriously screwed up on the team in terms of coaching, and I don't buy this whole idea that GG's system was so bafflingfly complex that players just couldn't implement it. Back in the day before modern tech helped out, football players had truly complex play books and quarterbacks needed to be relatively intelligent. They had to memorize a lot, think quickly, adjust, and then throw the ball perfectly. Hockey systems are just not that complex. What bothers me is that the problems were evident early in the season and went unaddressed month, after month, after month. I don't want to get into the old, stale argument of coaching vs player execution. Suffice it to say that the coaching and players mixed like oil and vinegar. GG always struck me as being Slim Shady though. He spoke eloquently to the media even when everyone was watching the mushroom cloud behind him.

[DirtyDeeds]

7 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said:

So much happens behind the scenes that I find it difficult to evaluate his performance. The lack of offence was obvious though. Perhaps the idea was to build an impenetrable defence and let Brouwer, Johnny, and Monahan get one goal to win 1-0. Obviously, that never happened. The biggest error IMO was hiring and keeping GG. There was something seriously screwed up on the team in terms of coaching, and I don't buy this whole idea that GG's system was so bafflingfly complex that players just couldn't implement it. Back in the day before modern tech helped out, football players had truly complex play books and quarterbacks needed to be relatively intelligent. They had to memorize a lot, think quickly, adjust, and then throw the ball perfectly. Hockey systems are just not that complex. What bothers me is that the problems were evident early in the season and went unaddressed month, after month, after month. I don't want to get into the old, stale argument of coaching vs player execution. Suffice it to say that the coaching and players mixed like oil and vinegar. GG always struck me as being Slim Shady though. He spoke eloquently to the media even when everyone was watching the mushroom cloud behind him.

nothing eloquent about his pressers.. Same message whether we won or lost.

 

We took more shots so should have/deserved to win. We came out of the gate slow and gave the other team the lead early.

 

Same message every night.

[travel_dude]

21 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

To me, that’s why overspending is a bad thing. We had to buy out Brouwer to sign a player.

 

then it was having Stajan on a bad deal. Maybe more. But spending to the cap can kill. 

 

 

 

The club he took ever was close to the cap as it was.  Wideman and Stajan's deals were not his doing.

So, to make the club any better he was forced to spend to the cap.

Engelland was an overpay, but that's what it took.  

Some mistakes were made.  Every GM makes them.

 

You have to look at the core of the team to see the good parts.  Top 6 all locked up with only the top players making more than $6m.

Defense top 4, though it struggled last season, all but one making less than $5m (for now).

Bottom 6 making $3m or less, mostly around $1m.  Not core players but young enough to possibly get there.

The buyout now has all players earning what they would get in the market.

 

You can be a cap team with 2-3 good forwards and 1-2 good d-men.  WASH and VGK had more than that, yet WASH is a victim of their own success.  They re-signed a guy that regularly leads the leagues in penalties and suspensions to a massive overpay.  

 

I'm not trying to pat BT on the back and say job well done.  He is building a team starting with the D and adding skill and speed every year.  He got a big fish without bankrupting the team.  He added three RHS players that we didn't have equivalents to.  The need to buy out Brouwer was less about cap as it was about giving opportunity for a player to have a better season.  12 minutes of Brouwer or 12 minutes for a player that could see a break out. 

 

The mistakes are widely known.  It what you do to fix them that makes a decent GM.  The only thing not addressed yet is a starter beyond this season.    

 

[robrob74]

23 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

The club he took ever was close to the cap as it was.  Wideman and Stajan's deals were not his doing.

So, to make the club any better he was forced to spend to the cap.

Engelland was an overpay, but that's what it took.  

Some mistakes were made.  Every GM makes them.

 

You have to look at the core of the team to see the good parts.  Top 6 all locked up with only the top players making more than $6m.

Defense top 4, though it struggled last season, all but one making less than $5m (for now).

Bottom 6 making $3m or less, mostly around $1m.  Not core players but young enough to possibly get there.

The buyout now has all players earning what they would get in the market.

 

You can be a cap team with 2-3 good forwards and 1-2 good d-men.  WASH and VGK had more than that, yet WASH is a victim of their own success.  They re-signed a guy that regularly leads the leagues in penalties and suspensions to a massive overpay.  

 

I'm not trying to pat BT on the back and say job well done.  He is building a team starting with the D and adding skill and speed every year.  He got a big fish without bankrupting the team.  He added three RHS players that we didn't have equivalents to.  The need to buy out Brouwer was less about cap as it was about giving opportunity for a player to have a better season.  12 minutes of Brouwer or 12 minutes for a player that could see a break out. 

 

The mistakes are widely known.  It what you do to fix them that makes a decent GM.  The only thing not addressed yet is a starter beyond this season.    

 

 

I sm hoping they’re all learning curves and he’s better for it. I don’t like the idea that every GM makes them because theyre supposed to be experts. But i guess some get the push from above to sign some of them too. 

 

When theyre cap jail errors on aging FA it is horrible. Sometimes you need to pay your topend talent, so that is different.

 

He is doing fine and i just wonder if he did enough to offset our lack of picks this year. 

I feel like by adding Neal and Czarnik (if he is what he was advertised as) it makes up for the missed 1st and 2nd round pick.

[cccsberg]

22 hours ago, Cowtownguy said:

I dunno man, that sounds a lot like my ex's logic. "Honey, I know that I just spent your entire paycheque at Shoppers Drug Mart, but with all of the points I got, we saved just as much. Your welcome!"

If Brouwer stayed for his final 2 years the Flames would have paid him $9.  Buying him out they pay him $6.  The ELC replacement player is minimum $650 x2 or $1.3mm, or maximum $900 x2 or $1.8mm (e.g. Hathaway, Lazar, Foo, Gawdin....).  Added to Brouwer’s $6mm that’s either $7.3mm or $7.8mm total.  Management saves a MINIMUM of $1.2+mm and the team is improved.  The ONLY negative is BT has to eat crow on his mistake.

[rickross]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

He's yet to build a contender so he currently has a failing grade.

Throwing picks for the Hams is fine if that's where you are as a team.

But we weren't there so it turns into more filler in a wall full of holes.

Why he didn't address the forward ranks earlier is beyond me. It was evident to EVERYONE that there wasn't enough skill here.

He turned goaltending into a fiasco to the point BH is telling the media he's NOT carrying 3 goalies. It was obviously out of his hands.

I think what will lead to his demise is he's too cerebral and too tied to known commodities.

What I mean by that, is he overthinks solutions and the latest example of hiring a coach and bringing 3 of his players in (so far).

Quite honestly, he has me scratching my head.

We missed the playoffs last year because that isn't a playoff roster. Just consider how many games Smith won. If not for that, the Isles would have gotten one helluva pick.

Time to stop glorifying what has actually been failings to the point he's now repairing his earlier paintings.

He did a lot this summer, but we are definitely NOT automatically better, we only SHOULD be.

If last year taught us anything, we just weren't a good team.

I think that's what's so polarizing about BT and any GM in the position is its all a gamble in the end. On paper a D corps of Gio, Hamilton, Brodie, Hamonic appeared elite but we all know it didn't transpire that way. I get your frustration as BT has made a lot of transactions for this club but ultimately the Flames are still currently a non playoff contender. However I think his overall management of the cap and players acquired and resigned has been good, there have been missteps for sure but overall he hasn't set the Flames back as an organization. I'd blame more of the team's inconsistency and failure to make the playoffs on the coaches and players IMO. 

 

Won't always agree with everything he does but I can't deny his effort and desire to win. He's done a lot in a short off season to overhaul this team. Imagine how much more frustrated you'd be if we had a GM that preferred idling over action!

 

 

[robrob74]

24 minutes ago, rickross said:

I think that's what's so polarizing about BT and any GM in the position is its all a gamble in the end. On paper a D corps of Gio, Hamilton, Brodie, Hamonic appeared elite but we all know it didn't transpire that way. I get your frustration as BT has made a lot of transactions for this club but ultimately the Flames are still currently a non playoff contender. However I think his overall management of the cap and players acquired and resigned has been good, there have been missteps for sure but overall he hasn't set the Flames back as an organization. I'd blame more of the team's inconsistency and failure to make the playoffs on the coaches and players IMO. 

 

Won't always agree with everything he does but I can't deny his effort and desire to win. He's done a lot in a short off season to overhaul this team. Imagine how much more frustrated you'd be if we had a GM that preferred idling over action!

 

 

 

You take a player in Brodie, put him with Gio and he looks very good. Take him away and he looks average. 

 

Then you put Hamilton with Gio (who looked a little above average without him) and he looks great. 

 

Brodie no longer playing with Gio is sufficient, but not near as good as when he plays with Gio.

 

I think this is why the logic isn’t adding up, why we aren’t as great as we look on paper. Gio is just THAT GOOD. 

[rickross]

25 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

You take a player in Brodie, put him with Gio and he looks very good. Take him away and he looks average. 

 

Then you put Hamilton with Gio (who looked a little above average without him) and he looks great. 

 

Brodie no longer playing with Gio is sufficient, but not near as good as when he plays with Gio.

 

I think this is why the logic isn’t adding up, why we aren’t as great as we look on paper. Gio is just THAT GOOD. 

Excellent point. We've taken Gio for granted the last few years because he hasn't put up the same offensive numbers and the team has been so inconsistent....what has been consistent though is Gio. He's ALWAYS been our top defender, what's really crazy about Gio is how he's never had the chance to fully develop with a consistent partner...yet somehow he elevates all of his partners play. 

 

Imagine being Gio's linemate, knowing the guy is so sound and so responsible in his end that it enables you to play with complete confidence in your game, hence all his partners career years. The guy just won the Muhammad Ali Humanitarian Award...and he's the captain of our team! This is why I don't believe Tkachuk will earn more than Gio, the Flames aren't just paying for great athletes their paying for excellent people. At this point in time no one epitomizes this more than Gio. 

 

Just cuz I've crowned Gio doesn't mean I'm not for trading his aging a$* if and when the right offer comes available lol!!

 

Seriously though...looking back on the return for Iggy was illegally shameful! I can't believe Feaster tried selling us on Ben Hanowski...I hate Chiarelli even more now