Flames Defense

[MP5029]

Well just judging by the Det game….It would seem Vladar is doing his best to make sure no other team will be interested in trading for him….brutal!

 

not that it’s all his fault, the team

as a whole sucks Hash Rate this year….Not unexpected and kind of a good thing too, at least this garbage will force a rebuild finally! 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, MP5029 said:

Well just judging by the Det game….It would seem Vladar is doing his best to make sure no other team will be interested in trading for him….brutal!

 

not that it’s all his fault, the team

as a whole sucks Hash Rate this year….Not unexpected and kind of a good thing too, at least this garbage will force a rebuild finally! 

 

The team can account for 5 goals that you really shouldn't plame on the goalie.  The 6th of them was really a screen shot.  Funny how we can get through a single shot from the point when we have a screen.  Can't hit the net worth beans.  

[MP5029]

9 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

The team can account for 5 goals that you really shouldn't plame on the goalie.  The 6th of them was really a screen shot.  Funny how we can get through a single shot from the point when we have a screen.  Can't hit the net worth beans.  

Can’t score, can’t defend…is it Huska? He wasn’t my first choice for head coach….but is it him or the players? Sutter took the fall last year, granted I have always hated Sutter’s over reliance on vet (over 30) players but otherwise he was a great coach….I’m not sure now, cause I see a lot of the blender lines Sutter used to do when the team played like crap and some of the line combos are really odd like Sutter did.

 

I think this Det game was the first time Shar was on the same line with Hubby but they had Backlund Ctr them? Or was it Kadri?  Either way is an odd choice if your trying to score, as Backlund is just not an offensive machine and Kadri sucks at FO…which seems to be a huge problem again this year.

 

good to see Manji back on the LW where he belongs, and Kadri is a liability at Ctr…maybe try him on the RW instead of Manji? 
 

I think they need to practice shooting, like a lot, also practice FO’s and test line combos in high paced practices with line vs line to see who gels and which lines are better against the other…may create competition within the team or something…or do nothing till TDL and gut this mess.

[cross16]

On 10/21/2023 at 7:07 PM, conundrumed said:

Friedman reported on HNIC that the Flames and Hanifin are making progress towards a contract extension.

 

Yikes. I mean i'm not surprised but it's getting very cringe worthy how much desire there is amongst Flames brass/hockey ops to keep this thing together. 

[conundrumed]

3 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Yikes. I mean i'm not surprised but it's getting very cringe worthy how much desire there is amongst Flames brass/hockey ops to keep this thing together. 

I'm fine with a Weegar-like extension on Hanifin. I think a really overlooked aspect is the personal side. It has to be a major distraction to constantly be wondering with your family if you need to start packing or what you're doing or where you're going. I mean, sure, you'll be fine, but that is a lot of turbulence for anybody's personal life away from the rink.

I've done it myself 4 times in my life in my little not-rich world. It's unnerving at the best of times. I think it's why Gaudreau was so stuck. He was likely really, REALLY rattled and I have zero problem forgiving him for that.

You leave that up in the air and that's the risk that your taking.

I did not like BT in this aspect, at all. "Tough negotiator" has a line that he always crossed. For what? To save a $1mil? Save a mil for what? A borderline NHLer?

If Hanifin wants security, I have zero issue with 8 x $7. Lindholm I have a much larger issue with. I'm done biting my tongue off about this: Larkin is quite a bit better than Lindholm in almost every aspect of the game.

Lindholm is about 6 x $8 tops. Take it or leave it. We're offering a big payday due simply to not having a plan B. That's where the trouble lives. He was a role player with JG and Tkachuk, not the driver. Larkin is a driver and plays all situations at worst equal to Lindholm. DeBrincat isn't shredding off of the rails right now without Larkin. Not even maybe.

I never minded the Huberdeau signing and I'll own that. The Kadri one I was even "okay" with. But wow, maybe those are good signings if you have a solid base. The forward base has been muskeg in the spring. Just sinking in the thaw.

Weegar, Hanifin and Andersson is a solid D base. The fwd group is turning into dust. If it doesn't turn around, it's the fwd group that needs to be expunged. Turnovers to odd-man rushes up the ying-yang. The entire backend is hung out to dry by this fwd group, so far. Slow at everything. Of course it's constant turnovers. How can it not be? Zero top 6 fwds taking charge. Make Backlund the 1C, I guess?

But back to the point. The defencemen aren't the issue, so try to keep the actually good players happy and focused on hockey, not personal strife.

 

[cross16]

3 hours ago, conundrumed said:

I'm fine with a Weegar-like extension on Hanifin. I think a really overlooked aspect is the personal side. It has to be a major distraction to constantly be wondering with your family if you need to start packing or what you're doing or where you're going. I mean, sure, you'll be fine, but that is a lot of turbulence for anybody's personal life away from the rink.

I've done it myself 4 times in my life in my little not-rich world. It's unnerving at the best of times. I think it's why Gaudreau was so stuck. He was likely really, REALLY rattled and I have zero problem forgiving him for that.

You leave that up in the air and that's the risk that your taking.

I did not like BT in this aspect, at all. "Tough negotiator" has a line that he always crossed. For what? To save a $1mil? Save a mil for what? A borderline NHLer?

If Hanifin wants security, I have zero issue with 8 x $7. Lindholm I have a much larger issue with. I'm done biting my tongue off about this: Larkin is quite a bit better than Lindholm in almost every aspect of the game.

Lindholm is about 6 x $8 tops. Take it or leave it. We're offering a big payday due simply to not having a plan B. That's where the trouble lives. He was a role player with JG and Tkachuk, not the driver. Larkin is a driver and plays all situations at worst equal to Lindholm. DeBrincat isn't shredding off of the rails right now without Larkin. Not even maybe.

I never minded the Huberdeau signing and I'll own that. The Kadri one I was even "okay" with. But wow, maybe those are good signings if you have a solid base. The forward base has been muskeg in the spring. Just sinking in the thaw.

Weegar, Hanifin and Andersson is a solid D base. The fwd group is turning into dust. If it doesn't turn around, it's the fwd group that needs to be expunged. Turnovers to odd-man rushes up the ying-yang. The entire backend is hung out to dry by this fwd group, so far. Slow at everything. Of course it's constant turnovers. How can it not be? Zero top 6 fwds taking charge. Make Backlund the 1C, I guess?

But back to the point. The defencemen aren't the issue, so try to keep the actually good players happy and focused on hockey, not personal strife.

 

 

This is where I agree, what is the base here and how can we agree it's solid? At least not if the bar is competing for championships. 

 

We differ on Hanifin as I personally don't see him as part of a good base. Great player to bolster a base but not someone who should be part of it. That's where I don't see the vision here. I get the rationale of these are good players, because they are, and we don't want to lose them for less than what we are worth but I think this franchise needs to see the bigger picture and that's that these good players are not making for a great team. 

 

I will acknowledge that part of the problem with Hanifin is I think you won't get much for him in trade. So I can appreciate that looking at losing a 26 year old top 4 dman for little is not very attractive, but at the same time I think trying to keep this thing together is less attractive for me. 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

If Hanifin wants security, I have zero issue with 8 x $7. Lindholm I have a much larger issue with. I'm done biting my tongue off about this: Larkin is quite a bit better than Lindholm in almost every aspect of the game.

Lindholm is about 6 x $8 tops. Take it or leave it. We're offering a big payday due simply to not having a plan B. That's where the trouble lives. He was a role player with JG and Tkachuk, not the driver. Larkin is a driver and plays all situations at worst equal to Lindholm. DeBrincat isn't shredding off of the rails right now without Larkin. Not even maybe.

I never minded the Huberdeau signing and I'll own that. The Kadri one I was even "okay" with. But wow, maybe those are good signings if you have a solid base. The forward base has been muskeg in the spring. Just sinking in the thaw.

Weegar, Hanifin and Andersson is a solid D base. The fwd group is turning into dust. If it doesn't turn around, it's the fwd group that needs to be expunged. Turnovers to odd-man rushes up the ying-yang. The entire backend is hung out to dry by this fwd group, so far. Slow at everything. Of course it's constant turnovers. How can it not be? Zero top 6 fwds taking charge. Make Backlund the 1C, I guess?

But back to the point. The defencemen aren't the issue, so try to keep the actually good players happy and focused on hockey, not personal strife.

 

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

This is where I agree, what is the base here and how can we agree it's solid?

 

We differ on Hanifin as I personally don't see him as part of a good base. Great player to bolster a base but not someone who should be part of it. That's where I don't see the vision here. I get the rationale of these are good players, because they are, and we don't want to lose them for less than what we are worth but I think this franchise needs to see the bigger picture and that's that these good players are not making for a great team. 

 

I will acknowledge that part of the problem with Hanifin is I think you won't get much for him in trade. So I can appreciate that looking at losing a 26 year old top 4 dman for little is not very attractive, but at the same time I think trying to keep this thing together is less attractive for me. 

 

Very few tradeable assets right now, even the 1st rounder is questionable with the multiple conditions we have attached to them.  We have capable players but no one player that checks more than one box.  No Gaudreau (zone entry play driver), no Tkachuk (douche, scoring threat), no top D (top scoring or complete shutdown), no PP quarterback. 

 

I don't think we will be able to get an impact C in any trade.  Not like there are many or any available.  Might have to settle for a trade for a winger capable of driving play and QB'ing the PP.  To do so, we might have to make an unpopular trade.

 

Pick Dube or Mangiapane to move forward with.  One hasn't reached their peak and can play 3 positions.  The other is a winger that can play one spot.  Can score but remains to be seen if they can hit 30 again.  Mange probably has the most value, but won't get much unless he picks it up. 

 

The better known cap has handcuffed us with a Lindholm deal.  He's not worth as much as what he will cost now.  Regardless, he's our only top C.  Trading him for a winger is not an option.  So, either a bigger package for a top C or surround him with play drivers.

 

Spending more on Hanifin isn't going to make him a top 2 D.  Weegar is making the max Hanifin should even get.  And I'm not sold he is worth that or should be signed like that.

[cross16]

well....

 

Weird for Salim to "break" anything (and nothing picked up by anyone else yet) and also weird that Hanifin would speak specifically. 

 

could be nothing.

 

EDIT: looks like nothing

 

 

[Heartbreaker]

7 minutes ago, cross16 said:

well....

 

Weird for Salim to "break" anything (and nothing picked up by anyone else yet) and also weird that Hanifin would speak specifically. 

 

could be nothing.

 

 

 

👀

 

❤️.

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

I'm fine with a Weegar-like extension on Hanifin. I think a really overlooked aspect is the personal side. It has to be a major distraction to constantly be wondering with your family if you need to start packing or what you're doing or where you're going. I mean, sure, you'll be fine, but that is a lot of turbulence for anybody's personal life away from the rink.

I've done it myself 4 times in my life in my little not-rich world. It's unnerving at the best of times. I think it's why Gaudreau was so stuck. He was likely really, REALLY rattled and I have zero problem forgiving him for that.

You leave that up in the air and that's the risk that your taking.

I did not like BT in this aspect, at all. "Tough negotiator" has a line that he always crossed. For what? To save a $1mil? Save a mil for what? A borderline NHLer?

If Hanifin wants security, I have zero issue with 8 x $7. Lindholm I have a much larger issue with. I'm done biting my tongue off about this: Larkin is quite a bit better than Lindholm in almost every aspect of the game.

Lindholm is about 6 x $8 tops. Take it or leave it. We're offering a big payday due simply to not having a plan B. That's where the trouble lives. He was a role player with JG and Tkachuk, not the driver. Larkin is a driver and plays all situations at worst equal to Lindholm. DeBrincat isn't shredding off of the rails right now without Larkin. Not even maybe.

I never minded the Huberdeau signing and I'll own that. The Kadri one I was even "okay" with. But wow, maybe those are good signings if you have a solid base. The forward base has been muskeg in the spring. Just sinking in the thaw.

Weegar, Hanifin and Andersson is a solid D base. The fwd group is turning into dust. If it doesn't turn around, it's the fwd group that needs to be expunged. Turnovers to odd-man rushes up the ying-yang. The entire backend is hung out to dry by this fwd group, so far. Slow at everything. Of course it's constant turnovers. How can it not be? Zero top 6 fwds taking charge. Make Backlund the 1C, I guess?

But back to the point. The defencemen aren't the issue, so try to keep the actually good players happy and focused on hockey, not personal strife.

 

 

I don't know that I am going to watch any games this year. I probably don't have any say or credibility in the team's performance. I go over the way they played last year, and some of the ones that continued to play the year before. There are some players that overlap each iteration of the Flames. I am not sure whether that is where the culture comes from, and whether they're the ones that continue the same way the team plays, or is it coaching? 

 

For me, I see that the team is slow, that they let up odd man rushes. The intellect of the players just isn't there. I get they say the team likes players with high hockey IQ. To me, it doesn't look like it. When guys don't notice who is pinching then it's telling me that guys don't know how to see the game. It should be second nature that a forward covers for D when one pinches. 

[robrob74]

4 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

This is where I agree, what is the base here and how can we agree it's solid?

 

We differ on Hanifin as I personally don't see him as part of a good base. Great player to bolster a base but not someone who should be part of it. That's where I don't see the vision here. I get the rationale of these are good players, because they are, and we don't want to lose them for less than what we are worth but I think this franchise needs to see the bigger picture and that's that these good players are not making for a great team. 

 

I will acknowledge that part of the problem with Hanifin is I think you won't get much for him in trade. So I can appreciate that looking at losing a 26 year old top 4 dman for little is not very attractive, but at the same time I think trying to keep this thing together is less attractive for me. 

 

Yup,

 

Andersson is a top 3 D on good teams. Maybe a really good #2 but not a #1. And that's the same for Weegar and Hanifin. There is no elite D to supplement the D. It's the same for offence. Lindholm is a good first line C, but is an excellent 2nd line C. With Johnny and Tkachuk, he is a very good compliment to them. But his mates aren't them so we see that he is just a really good piece. And I see it similar to Conundrum. He is really good at everything, but isn't elite. He's not even really excellent. 

 

Distracted, but... If I were the Flames, I'd be setting Lindholm up for more one-timers. 

 

But I think the flow sounds off. I count on a lot here now, just to see how things are going. Sorry for not being able to give a more educated opinion. It just sounds like a lot of the same, and it's hard to have the same conversations over and over. 

[robrob74]

47 minutes ago, cross16 said:

well....

 

Weird for Salim to "break" anything (and nothing picked up by anyone else yet) and also weird that Hanifin would speak specifically. 

 

could be nothing.

 

EDIT: looks like nothing

 

 

 

Probably just addressing the media to let them know that they want to concentrate on playing over having to hear the same questions over and over.

[travel_dude]

Unfortunate for Laine being injured as a result of a senseless hit by Ras.  He's gonna be out for some time.  Hard to say, but he will miss at least the next 2 games.  Big hits are still part of the game, but Ras hit high.  

[Thebrewcrew]

I think the biggest reason for the appeal is that the 4 games includes the Oiler game.

 

Having Andersson isn’t quite as necessary as there’s a chance Edmonton is missing McDavid. Would be nice to have him though 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I think the biggest reason for the appeal is that the 4 games includes the Oiler game.

 

Having Andersson isn’t quite as necessary as there’s a chance Edmonton is missing McDavid. Would be nice to have him though 

 

Oh, I understood that as soon as I heard it was 4.

From a team perspective, Ras makes us a better team.

We saw a pretty disjointed game against DET.

I don't lay that on the D, but they didn't help much either.

[420since1974]

6 hours ago, travel_dude said:

Unfortunate for Laine being injured as a result of a senseless hit by Ras.  He's gonna be out for some time.  Hard to say, but he will miss at least the next 2 games.  Big hits are still part of the game, but Ras hit high.  

I'm not defending the hit by Ras; it was definitely in the grey zone and I won't be too pissed off by a minor suspension, but it seems like Laine appears to rub many players the wrong way.

Look at how many times he has been laid right out by body checks.

Then again, maybe he is just reckless and does not keep his head up.

[jjgallow]

5 minutes ago, 420since1974 said:

I'm not defending the hit by Ras; it was definitely in the grey zone and I won't be too pissed off by a minor suspension, but it seems like Laine appears to rub many players the wrong way.

Look at how many times he has been laid right out by body checks.

Then again, maybe he is just reckless and does not keep his head up.

 

I disagree.  sort of. 

 

But mostly I'm just responding because the more we bump this thread the less we have to see that stupid Kadri thread.

 

Ah...

 

Nevermind.   I agree.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, 420since1974 said:

I'm not defending the hit by Ras; it was definitely in the grey zone and I won't be too pissed off by a minor suspension, but it seems like Laine appears to rub many players the wrong way.

Look at how many times he has been laid right out by body checks.

Then again, maybe he is just reckless and does not keep his head up.

 

I don't pay attention to his play much, so I can't tell you how dirty he is.

I actually wanted to trade for him, but I think that is done.

He may have been leaning a bit, but Ras left his feet propelling up to hit the guy.

He's huge, like 6'5".  

Sure, some of it was missing the real target and momentum carrying him, but was not needed.

 

[travel_dude]

I am wondering about the secrecy surrounding the extension of Hanifin.

There has been some suggestions that Hanifin's presser was his chance to say goodbye.

It's very possible that a sign-and-trade will be the final outcome.

He has a 8 team no trade list, so s signed deal benefits him and the new team.

Would only make sense with a known team and their nervousness in trading for a pending UFA.

 

I would only be in favor of a trade at this point if two things were true.  One is we have a known start date for Kylington and two is we have an offer that brings back a good young D in his place, either as part or the entire deal.

 

If he is staying, then get him back with Tanev.  That is where he looked his best last season.

[Thebrewcrew]

 

[cross16]

10 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

 

 

The desire to keep this group together continue to get weirder and weirder. 

 

Props to Z for calling it out. 

[JTech780]

I know Zadorov isn’t the best defenseman out there, but he showed he wants to be here and will play hard for Calgary. Instead of trying to get an extension done with him, they prioritized trying to convince guys like Hanifin and Lindholm to stay here and now it sounds like Zadorov isn’t willing to talk extension. 
 

I am starting to question the culture in that dressing room again.

[travel_dude]

32 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

I know Zadorov isn’t the best defenseman out there, but he showed he wants to be here and will play hard for Calgary. Instead of trying to get an extension done with him, they prioritized trying to convince guys like Hanifin and Lindholm to stay here and now it sounds like Zadorov isn’t willing to talk extension. 
 

I am starting to question the culture in that dressing room again.

 

Where did Zaddy say he wasn't interested in signing an extension?

But to your point, there is something about the play and these kind of comments that disturb me.

Almost like there is a split between pro-Sutter and against.

That has a way of dividing a room, since you complain about a style then don't improve under a new one.

 

What I find odd is why they are reverting to some of the very ways that they used last year that didn't work.

The PP stagnation.  The weak zone entries.  The dump and chase.  F looking lost in the D-zone.

Did we not have a camp to iron this out?  

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said:

 

 

Thanks for finding this man, it made may day.

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

The desire to keep this group together continue to get weirder and weirder. 

 

Props to Z for calling it out. 

 

Highlight of my day.

 

They should make him captain tomorrow.  I'm serious.

 

Send the rest off to Toronto for picks and keep him.