Realistic (and unrealistic) Trades - 2024 Edition

[cross16]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

was the Podkolzin deal even that beneficial foe the Canucks?  Maybe minor downside, and just wanted to rid the player? 

 

Think it comes down to this was a player they didn't see working out with them. 

 

He's wavier eligible so if he doesn't make the team, good chance, he's on waivers with a non zero chance he's claimed for nothing. 

 

If even he doesn't make it to waivers, or clears them, there's risk in what happens if he struggles again. He's got decent value now as a reclamation project but is that value the same next year?

 

Think it makes sense to pick up an asset for him now rather than risk nothing by seeing what happens, especially if you don't see a future there. 

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Having two NHL backup level (currently) goalies may not be the best way forward for us.  Wolf or Vladar could absolutely become a starter this year if they play their heads off.  Wolf has been a AHL starter.  Vladar has played closer to NHL starter.  Or there could be a 1a/1b mix here.

 

The other option is to make a play for Askarov and run three goalies.  25-30 games each.  Delays a decision on which to make starter, for now.  We have a possible trade chip to move at TDL.  Three goalies never seems to work out, though.  May be a bad situation to get into here.  Just an idea.  

I dont think Askarov has proven himself any more than Wolf. Add Cooley, Ignatijew, and the 4 Russians in the mix and considering the season expectations it seems like a good time to see what already on hand as opposed to spending picks.

[travel_dude]

11 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

I dont think Askarov has proven himself any more than Wolf. Add Cooley, Ignatijew, and the 4 Russians in the mix and considering the season expectations it seems like a good time to see what already on hand as opposed to spending picks.

 

Askarov has AHL and KHL time in and the reasonable expectation is he is ready enough to play as a 2nd or 3rd string goalie in the NHL.  I don't see any of the AHL goalies really ready to play NHL games.  Not and expect anything great.  Any deal for Askarov would need to include a NHL player as part of the package going. 

 

We knew trading Marky was going to be a hiue risk to the team.  This is about managing that risk.

[robrob74]

I get the desire to trade for Askarov, are we in a position to trade a 1st rounder? Maybe? Preds want a top 15 pick. They don't have cap space to take on a player. 
 

could Coleman and a 2nd rounder for a cap dump and Askarov make sense? Or maybe it takes NJD's 1st rounder we got for Markstrom. Then it becomes Marky for Asky?

 

im of the camp to stay the course with what we have and draft some forwards or high end LSD if it is possible with the picks we have coming in the next few drafts.

 

continue to take chances on goalies in the last half of the drafts.

[travel_dude]

44 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

I get the desire to trade for Askarov, are we in a position to trade a 1st rounder? Maybe? Preds want a top 15 pick. They don't have cap space to take on a player. 
 

could Coleman and a 2nd rounder for a cap dump and Askarov make sense? Or maybe it takes NJD's 1st rounder we got for Markstrom. Then it becomes Marky for Asky?

 

im of the camp to stay the course with what we have and draft some forwards or high end LSD if it is possible with the picks we have coming in the next few drafts.

 

continue to take chances on goalies in the last half of the drafts.

 

No to the 1st rounder, so it would need to be a combo to make it work for us.

It's a suggestion not an absolute imperative.  We don't need him per se.

We could use a potential replacement if Vladar doesn't recover his form.

[cross16]

I doubt the Preds would do it , but I would not hesitate to flip them the NJ first for him.  I think a late first rounder for Askarov is worth it from the Flames perspective. Obviously less is better but I don't see how you get him for less than a 1 and I woudln't pay more. 

 

I like Wolf but I'd take on that risk. If both hit your in either amazing shape goaltending wise or you've got 2 trade assets that will net you the same or greater returns. 

[sak22]

 

Along with a 2nd in 2026 for Jordan Harris.

[robrob74]

6 minutes ago, sak22 said:

 

Along with a 2nd in 2026 for Jordan Harris.

Flames probably don't have a Jordan Harris, but would Laine and a 2nd have been worth that cost for the Flames? 
 

maybe Miromanov?

[cberg]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Askarov has AHL and KHL time in and the reasonable expectation is he is ready enough to play as a 2nd or 3rd string goalie in the NHL.  I don't see any of the AHL goalies really ready to play NHL games.  Not and expect anything great.  Any deal for Askarov would need to include a NHL player as part of the package going. 

 

We knew trading Marky was going to be a hiue risk to the team.  This is about managing that risk.

No, can't agree.  Wolf has far more and better experience yet you still discount him.  We have zero need of Askarov at this time.

[travel_dude]

5 minutes ago, cberg said:

No, can't agree.  Wolf has far more and better experience yet you still discount him.  We have zero need of Askarov at this time.

 

Who is discounting Wolf.  He's not a AHL goalie.  We have 3 of those.  

We have zero reason to ignore a goalie drafted by one of the teams best know for goaltending.

For as good as Vladar was in one NHL season (.906 and 2.75), his career number are less promising.

And his career high games played in a season is 27.

 

Give him a chance?  Sure.  I thought he might be a capable BACKUP.  How much before you decide

he hasn't got starter in him and you have all hope put on the only other NHL goalie you have?

On the other hand, you might have 3 and you suddenly have riches.  

 

[conundrumed]

35 minutes ago, sak22 said:

 

Along with a 2nd in 2026 for Jordan Harris.

Montreal putting on a clinic.

[sak22]

52 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

Flames probably don't have a Jordan Harris, but would Laine and a 2nd have been worth that cost for the Flames? 
 

maybe Miromanov?

I don't know much about Harris, doesn't seem too special.  Just think its a case of the player needing to go and having say in the destination matched with teams willingness to pay to acquire him, I think retention could've been a sticking point on some teams.  I would've taken the risk, just not sure where Calgary falls on his list or if the team had any desire.  

[robrob74]

40 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Who is discounting Wolf.  He's not a AHL goalie.  We have 3 of those.  

We have zero reason to ignore a goalie drafted by one of the teams best know for goaltending.

For as good as Vladar was in one NHL season (.906 and 2.75), his career number are less promising.

And his career high games played in a season is 27.

 

Give him a chance?  Sure.  I thought he might be a capable BACKUP.  How much before you decide

he hasn't got starter in him and you have all hope put on the only other NHL goalie you have?

On the other hand, you might have 3 and you suddenly have riches.  

 

 

Vladar also just got hips surgery, and the goaltending insiders said they think it's not a guarantee it will improve right away, that Vladar will have to relearn how his hips work in relation to his mechanics. So it could very well help him or it might set him back a bit to recover and adapt to the new hip.

[cross16]

Really smart deal from the Habs. They'll probably get another asset for moving him later. 

 

Flames should have been in on this but high chance they were on his No trade list. 

[travel_dude]

42 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

Vladar also just got hips surgery, and the goaltending insiders said they think it's not a guarantee it will improve right away, that Vladar will have to relearn how his hips work in relation to his mechanics. So it could very well help him or it might set him back a bit to recover and adapt to the new hip.

 

Wasn't Monahan broken with his hips both being messed up?  LOL.

There is a lot of risk asking a seldom used backup to get ready for a possible starter season.

It's quite possible that they always envisioned him being the backup here.

But I think about Gillies who was projected to be our top goalie prospect.

Lasted 7 games then out for 6 months.

 

[conundrumed]

19 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Really smart deal from the Habs. They'll probably get another asset for moving him later. 

 

Flames should have been in on this but high chance they were on his No trade list. 

My concern for the Flames is jamming more forwards in. Then we're back into the routine of not having spots for our own prospects (Pelletier, Coronato).

Though that's a stealthy risk deal for the habs. Laine's equally close to running out of real estate to show anything more than one-dimensional.

[robrob74]

4 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Wasn't Monahan broken with his hips both being messed up?  LOL.

There is a lot of risk asking a seldom used backup to get ready for a possible starter season.

It's quite possible that they always envisioned him being the backup here.

But I think about Gillies who was projected to be our top goalie prospect.

Lasted 7 games then out for 6 months.

 

 

what does Monahan have to do with anything? If Monahan was a goalie I might agree. I'm just going by what another goalie was saying on the Fan back around the draft or before that, once they announced Vladar was getting surgery. Mechanics and positioning is different in nets. The guy just said it all depends on the adjusting to post surgery 

 

"LOL"

[Thebrewcrew]

7 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

He actually gave them a usable piece in return too. 

 

don't get this at all for SJ. who were they bidding against? 

I think it's fair to question some of the trades Grier has made.

 

Emberson could be a younger Ceci. They may have downgraded.

 

He also retained on Hertl and sent Vegas two 3rd rounders in that deal. Which was really odd.

 

I've liked the way SJ has drafted, but the trades are questionable IMO.

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

what does Monahan have to do with anything? If Monahan was a goalie I might agree. I'm just going by what another goalie was saying on the Fan back around the draft or before that, once they announced Vladar was getting surgery. Mechanics and positioning is different in nets. The guy just said it all depends on the adjusting to post surgery 

 

"LOL"

 

Just giving you some grief.  Laugh it off.  I would say a bum hip or two would impact a goalie or player in their ability to move their legs.  No, it's not the same movements, but legs are legs.

[jjgallow]

hips don't lie

[conundrumed]

10 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I think it's fair to question some of the trades Grier has made.

 

Emberson could be a younger Ceci. They may have downgraded.

 

He also retained on Hertl and sent Vegas two 3rd rounders in that deal. Which was really odd.

 

I've liked the way SJ has drafted, but the trades are questionable IMO.

He received more for Walman, which is insane. He obviously did Bowman and the Oilers a solid, but I don't really gaf.

I haven't seen a roster make my eyes bleed this badly since Holland's last seasons in the D.

We'd have taken that Walman action, hands down, if we had known. Walman would easily be our 3rd best dman, PLUS a 2nd. We would have lost Future Considerations, though, so that's a tough call.

That was like a, "thanks for giving Zadina a new chance" deal.

[MP5029]

On 8/18/2024 at 6:55 AM, conundrumed said:

Re an offer sheet from the Flames, it would attach our 1st rd pick, which we can't do. That pick is in holding to Montreal.

If it were available, are we really in a position to give up what is likely to be a very high 1st + a 3rd?

I can't wait until that Mony-dump of a trade completes.

2 years of ex-GM haunting feels a bit like Holland leaving the Wings in buyout land.

 

I’m sure Conroy will be happy when the Mony-dump is completed too, that and clearing out the rest of BT’s moves…he can then build in his own vision.

 

as much as I’d love to have Mercer, and would have loved if they moved up and got Tij that’s all past now and we have what we have, and TBH it’s not a bad situation the draft was a solid start to rebuilding a new core/foundation for the future.

 

we do need a franchise player, as good as this draft has been, it’s been supporting cast, some may be key support cast players but none the less supporting cast.

 

my hope is that guys like Backlund, Coleman, Weegar, Kadri and with some

Serious luck Hubie are all phased out over the next few years.  
 

clearly the next few drafts will set the stage moving forward, and passing out the guys mentioned will help add assets to building a new core group….patience will be key for a a few years.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, MP5029 said:

I’m sure Conroy will be happy when the Mony-dump is completed too, that and clearing out the rest of BT’s moves…he can then build in his own vision.

 

as much as I’d love to have Mercer, and would have loved if they moved up and got Tij that’s all past now and we have what we have, and TBH it’s not a bad situation the draft was a solid start to rebuilding a new core/foundation for the future.

 

we do need a franchise player, as good as this draft has been, it’s been supporting cast, some may be key support cast players but none the less supporting cast.

 

my hope is that guys like Backlund, Coleman, Weegar, Kadri and with some

Serious luck Hubie are all phased out over the next few years.  
 

clearly the next few drafts will set the stage moving forward, and passing out the guys mentioned will help add assets to building a new core group….patience will be key for a a few years.

 

Kadri will be the new Backlund in 3 years.  I do expect Huberdeau to recover his magic, but will never be the player here that Johnny Hockey would have managed to be.  Only saying that because he was our franchise player.  We could have a franchise player already in the system, but since we have so few players that were ranked super high or were rookie of the year or won some NHL award, we won't know it for some time.

 

One thing about the vets.  They are the ones that will bring out the best in our top young players and prospects.  

[cberg]

On 8/19/2024 at 2:20 PM, travel_dude said:

 

Who is discounting Wolf.  He's not a AHL goalie.  We have 3 of those.  

We have zero reason to ignore a goalie drafted by one of the teams best know for goaltending.

For as good as Vladar was in one NHL season (.906 and 2.75), his career number are less promising.

And his career high games played in a season is 27.

 

Give him a chance?  Sure.  I thought he might be a capable BACKUP.  How much before you decide

he hasn't got starter in him and you have all hope put on the only other NHL goalie you have?

On the other hand, you might have 3 and you suddenly have riches.  

 

The reason is because there is no need, we have multiple good options internally and our focus now is top level Centres.  

[travel_dude]

5 hours ago, cberg said:

The reason is because there is no need, we have multiple good options internally and our focus now is top level Centres.  

 

Know any top level C's available?  You build the team when players are available in the draft or in trade or sometimes passed over in FA.