Realistic (and unrealistic) Trades - 2024 Edition

[zima]

What makes you guys think anyone will want to sign here every one is running for the hills we have a building that is ancient and taxes here is insane once mang contract is up he will not sign here I bet if the players that signed here a few yrs back totally regret it. Only players that will play are RFA's. 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

Friedman speculating that Carolina will most likely be looking to trade Necas rights this summer. Necas is exactly the type of player I would target if I am Conroy. He brings speed and skill, can play C and RW. He is still young enough to be part of the rebuild plan. I think he would also be a player who could help Huberdeau.

 

Necas for Markstrom plus something would be a big win for us.  

[cross16]

2 hours ago, JTech780 said:

Friedman speculating that Carolina will most likely be looking to trade Necas rights this summer. Necas is exactly the type of player I would target if I am Conroy. He brings speed and skill, can play C and RW. He is still young enough to be part of the rebuild plan. I think he would also be a player who could help Huberdeau.

 

I'd be a bit weary of the price. I tried to focus in on Necas a lot in the playoffs and while I do like him I don't think he is a core piece and i'd be really interested to see what type of contract he's looking for. Arb rights and 2 years away from UFA, he isn't going to be cheap. 

 

At the right price sure but i have a feel he's going to be more expensive then he is worth. 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

I'd be a bit weary of the price. I tried to focus in on Necas a lot in the playoffs and while I do like him I don't think he is a core piece and i'd be really interested to see what type of contract he's looking for. Arb rights and 2 years away from UFA, he isn't going to be cheap. 

 

At the right price sure but i have a feel he's going to be more expensive then he is worth. 

 

The QO is $3.5M and I get that he is eligible for arbitration.

What would you consider too expensive?

Slightly more than Mangiapane?

Or $7M+ ?

 

[sak22]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

Really wondering what the goalie market will look like this summer after what were seeing in the playoffs. Carolina can't get over the hump and they have to be pretty choked to lost a 3-1 in the 3rd after Andersson gives up a bad goal. Goaltending isn't' the only reason Colorado is down but it's a big one.  I think the Oiles are up in the series right now if it weren't for Skinner. 

 

I think it was already shaping up to be busy but I think goaltending is becoming a really big storyline in these playoffs. With some more money to spend it will be interesting to see what that means, and what it means for Markstrom's value. 

I'm curious too, but just a weird position at the moment and is it just at a point where the position is just at a point where the overall talent isn't there?  If your a playoff team like Colorado, Edmonton or Carolina, you can easily say with better goaltending they are in better spots, but can you honestly sell Markstrom or Ullmark as the answers when they have their own playoff performances that can be questioned.  A year ago Bobrovsky was seen as the reason the Panthers barely made the playoffs as opposed to challenge for the division, now he's a Vezina finalist again, .  I just feel the need to always poor cold water on Markstrom talk, not that I don't think he will or can be moved, I still don't hold the excitement for the return that others do.

[cross16]

13 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

The QO is $3.5M and I get that he is eligible for arbitration.

What would you consider too expensive?

Slightly more than Mangiapane?

Or $7M+ ?

 

 

Evolving Hockey, who are pretty good at this, had him at 7.5mill AAV on a multi year deal. That is too rich IMO. 

[cross16]

8 minutes ago, sak22 said:

I'm curious too, but just a weird position at the moment and is it just at a point where the position is just at a point where the overall talent isn't there?  If your a playoff team like Colorado, Edmonton or Carolina, you can easily say with better goaltending they are in better spots, but can you honestly sell Markstrom or Ullmark as the answers when they have their own playoff performances that can be questioned.  A year ago Bobrovsky was seen as the reason the Panthers barely made the playoffs as opposed to challenge for the division, now he's a Vezina finalist again, .  I just feel the need to always poor cold water on Markstrom talk, not that I don't think he will or can be moved, I still don't hold the excitement for the return that others do.

 

I don't think Markstrom is going to generate a ton either, I'm just interesting to see how the market develops and where that puts him. Is it NJ or bust or do other teams call? What does other teams calling on him or other options do to his value. Just think it sets up as an interesting story line but I'm not convinced it means he is going to return a lot because while I do think there is going to be interest there are younger options available. 

[conundrumed]

8 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Bobrovsky was seen as the reason the Panthers barely made the playoffs

Even at that, I believe it was Alex Lyon that dragged them into the playoffs. Then Bobrovsky took over and is back to being a world beater. He was looking close to washed up last season, and Knight was disappointing.

[conundrumed]

2 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Evolving Hockey, who are pretty good at this, had him at 7.5mill AAV on a multi year deal. That is too rich IMO. 

I agree. He spent parts of this year relegated to 4th line duty (though he still had PP time). I think I'd rather ride out his RFA $$ and hope to see consistency, than shell out $7ish for him in the now and cross your fingers.

[sak22]

7 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I agree. He spent parts of this year relegated to 4th line duty (though he still had PP time). I think I'd rather ride out his RFA $$ and hope to see consistency, than shell out $7ish for him in the now and cross your fingers.

Yeah, 40-71-53 over the last 3 years, if we are being honest the inconsistencies of players we've had over the past has driven us nuts as fans, do we really want to give up good assets and pay 7M to acquire another?  

[conundrumed]

8 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I don't think Markstrom is going to generate a ton either, I'm just interesting to see how the market develops and where that puts him. Is it NJ or bust or do other teams call? What does other teams calling on him or other options do to his value. Just think it sets up as an interesting story line but I'm not convinced it means he is going to return a lot because while I do think there is going to be interest there are younger options available. 

I'd like to see Detroit make an attempt to acquire him. They have Husso and Lyon inked next year for a combined $5.65. Husso missed most of this season.

Yzerman stated in his season exit interview that the trend now is that teams need 3 goalies, and cited how teams struggled due to either injury or a goalie simply not playing well. Husso's 1 more year at $4.75 going to Calgary would help absorb Markstrom's $6 in the short-term. Husso and a prospect.

I quite like Husso when he's on. Had his first child last season, so like Markstrom, his year was tumultuous.

They over-played Husso 2 seasons ago and Lyon this past season. Markstrom would at worst give them better balance.

Then they have Cossa progressing, but he needs more seasoning in the A.

[cberg]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

I don't think Markstrom is going to generate a ton either, I'm just interesting to see how the market develops and where that puts him. Is it NJ or bust or do other teams call? What does other teams calling on him or other options do to his value. Just think it sets up as an interesting story line but I'm not convinced it means he is going to return a lot because while I do think there is going to be interest there are younger options available. 

The thing about Markstrom is he is an elite  level proven starter, one of only three available, the others being Saros and Ullmark.  If multiple of these teams needing upgrades decides to make a strong move, these are the targets.  Sure there are many other, cheaper stopgaps, and sure every goalie fluctuates, but quality costs.  Most teams are idiots, my opinion, and try to get by on the cheap, e.g. Oilers and Leafs, so there is no assurance the market will be there…

[sak22]

1 hour ago, cberg said:

The thing about Markstrom is he is an elite  level proven starter, one of only three available, the others being Saros and Ullmark.  If multiple of these teams needing upgrades decides to make a strong move, these are the targets.  Sure there are many other, cheaper stopgaps, and sure every goalie fluctuates, but quality costs.  Most teams are idiots, my opinion, and try to get by on the cheap, e.g. Oilers and Leafs, so there is no assurance the market will be there…

He is a one time Vezina finalist and 2 times in the top 5 for Vezina voting, I know you may discredit that, but that is the award voted on by GM's.  I think elite is definitely a stretch, he has proven he can be a good goalie and proven he can be a bad one just like over half the veteran goalies in the league, there isn't a goalie available who is going to bring guaranteed results, so there isn't a goalie who will garner major assets especially ones with higher cap hits and mid 30's.

[cberg]

1 hour ago, sak22 said:

He is a one time Vezina finalist and 2 times in the top 5 for Vezina voting, I know you may discredit that, but that is the award voted on by GM's.  I think elite is definitely a stretch, he has proven he can be a good goalie and proven he can be a bad one just like over half the veteran goalies in the league, there isn't a goalie available who is going to bring guaranteed results, so there isn't a goalie who will garner major assets especially ones with higher cap hits and mid 30's.

There is no goalie in the league that can guarantee results, but many, many that can never make it to the upper echelons, like Markstrom.  

[Thebrewcrew]

Should the Flames make a play for Necas?

 

Perusing the RFA list, he’s the best player that could realistically be available. He’s arbitration eligible, but I believe a year away from UFA. Carolina has been tough negotiating salaries.

 

The cost? Probably high. Spitballing here, VAN pick, 3rd and I would include Pelletier. This move would have the Flames with too many wingers. Waiver eligibility nears for Pelletier.

 

I based the acquisition cost off of what an offer sheet would cost. The Flames can’t do an offer sheet and they shouldn’t anyway. But I do think Necas gets 5-6 on his next deal, which is a 1 and 3 via offer sheet. Maybe Pelletier pushes that deal across the line.

 

Edit- Mangiapane might interest them too, if Pelletier doesn’t move the needle enough. More immediate help.

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Should the Flames make a play for Necas?

 

Perusing the RFA list, he’s the best player that could realistically be available. He’s arbitration eligible, but I believe a year away from UFA. Carolina has been tough negotiating salaries.

 

The cost? Probably high. Spitballing here, VAN pick, 3rd and I would include Pelletier. This move would have the Flames with too many wingers. Waiver eligibility nears for Pelletier.

 

I based the acquisition cost off of what an offer sheet would cost. The Flames can’t do an offer sheet and they shouldn’t anyway. But I do think Necas gets 5-6 on his next deal, which is a 1 and 3 via offer sheet. Maybe Pelletier pushes that deal across the line.

 

Edit- Mangiapane might interest them too, if Pelletier doesn’t move the needle enough. More immediate help.

 

He's a player I like.

 

But.   I don't see the timelines working out.    Are centers going to matter to the Flames in the next 3 years (his prime)?

 

Nope.  If we're being really honest.       What I mean by that, is he's not going to hoist a cup here in the next 3 years.   We don't have the pieces.  He could definitely help to make us just mediocre enough to never get any good draft picks 😅

 

I would only take a guy like that for almost free, and put them up for sale at trade deadline for good picks.  Now, if he'd sign with us, I'd do it...even if we gotta pay a bit more up front, but I'd be transparent with him that he'd be here for the season and in the playoffs with another team at end of year.  which he might be cool with.

 

In terms of asset acquisition right now imho, we should be on goalies and D.     Conroy seems to disagree with his Dallas model, and includes C.  But even if you do, he's the wrong age.

[Thebrewcrew]

2 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

He's a player I like.

 

But.   I don't see the timelines working out.    Are centers going to matter to the Flames in the next 3 years (his prime)?

 

Nope.  If we're being really honest.       What I mean by that, is he's not going to hoist a cup here in the next 3 years.   We don't have the pieces.  He could definitely help to make us just mediocre enough to never get any good draft picks 😅

 

I would only take a guy like that for almost free, and put them up for sale at trade deadline for good picks.  Now, if he'd sign with us, I'd do it...even if we gotta pay a bit more up front, but I'd be transparent with him that he'd be here for the season and in the playoffs with another team at end of year.  which he might be cool with.

 

In terms of asset acquisition right now imho, we should be on goalies and D.     Conroy seems to disagree with his Dallas model, and includes C.  But even if you do, he's the wrong age.

My stance would be that the Flames should keep their picks.

 

I don't think they will though. I think we will see a few picks shipped out for young players. That's fine, if the pro scouts get it right. Think Devon Toews to COL, as opposed to Griffin Reinhart to Edmonton.

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

My stance would be that the Flames should keep their picks.

 

I don't think they will though. I think we will see a few picks shipped out for young players. That's fine, if the pro scouts get it right. Think Devon Toews to COL, as opposed to Griffin Reinhart to Edmonton.

 

I hold out hope.

 

Like I did for Colorado  😅

[travel_dude]

On 5/17/2024 at 2:07 PM, conundrumed said:

I agree. He spent parts of this year relegated to 4th line duty (though he still had PP time). I think I'd rather ride out his RFA $$ and hope to see consistency, than shell out $7ish for him in the now and cross your fingers.

 

Maybe a cost controlled (for now) LW with the nickname Bread would be a fair swap.  Not it's not really fair, but under Rod, he might become a player again.  I think we need to get a little bigger or at least more sturdy.  Mange doesn't do it for me now.  It just seems like a waste to pay him to ride Backlund's line, when that should be for the new guys that need defensive help.  

 

I think the numbers may be low enough that the arbitration award would be low enough to make it a reasonable cap hit for a year.  Think he would fit like a glove here.

[The_People1]

On 5/17/2024 at 10:07 AM, JTech780 said:

Friedman speculating that Carolina will most likely be looking to trade Necas rights this summer. Necas is exactly the type of player I would target if I am Conroy. He brings speed and skill, can play C and RW. He is still young enough to be part of the rebuild plan. I think he would also be a player who could help Huberdeau.

 

I don't want to see the Flames move out picks and prospects for Necas.  But that's probably what CAR is aiming for as returns.  The Flames should operate more like CAR.  Learn to sell high on non-core players.  I would only want Necas if CAR would take Kadri or Mange or something like that.

 

I also like Pesce but that's a win-now move.  Not that he would sign here but the Flames are in no position to make win-now moves.

[Link99]

Maverik Bourque of the Texas Stars seems worth a look. AHL scoring leader 2023/2024. Center, RHS, Stars were a weak team this season so he drives the bus for them. To, bad we couldn't of gotten Him in the Tanev deal somehow. 

[conundrumed]

18 hours ago, Link99 said:

Maverik Bourque of the Texas Stars seems worth a look. AHL scoring leader 2023/2024. Center, RHS, Stars were a weak team this season so he drives the bus for them. To, bad we couldn't of gotten Him in the Tanev deal somehow. 

I'm sure we asked. Start with Stankoven, get laughed at. Move to Bourque, repeat.

Settle into being realistic. It was a fair deal.

Beyond their big 3 draft year, Dallas is really hitting draft picks on the regular. Pretty damn impressive..

[LouCifer]

For teams that DON’T have good goaltending, with evidence suggesting that position is what is sinking their team, it becomes extremely important. Even essential. There will be a market for Markstrom. It only takes 2 teams to drive the cost up. 

[sak22]

1 hour ago, LouCifer said:

For teams that DON’T have good goaltending, with evidence suggesting that position is what is sinking their team, it becomes extremely important. Even essential. There will be a market for Markstrom. It only takes 2 teams to drive the cost up. 

A lot of teams wanted Tanev and the cost got driven up to either late for with bad contract or 2nd with mid prospect.

[travel_dude]

12 hours ago, sak22 said:

A lot of teams wanted Tanev and the cost got driven up to either late for with bad contract or 2nd with mid prospect.

 

Well, I think we were specific in what we wanted back.  Perhaps we got less than we should have, but the conditional pick may still be a thing.  The funny thing is that any of the teams that didn't get Tanev are out (COL, TOR, TBL).  EDM is the exception, but that was never going to happen.

 

Come the end of the playoffs, 30 teams will wonder if they have the right #1 goalie going forward.  Some are under extreme pressure to actually win a round in the playoffs, while others were undone by just okay goaltending.  Teams that barely missed making the playoffs would be interested, assuming they haven't resolved it yet, or in the right genesis of their team to compete now.