Dillon Dube

[cross16]

My suspicion would be the first move is the players will get suspended while the proceedings unfold. I'd be a little surprised to see contract's terminated at this point but possible. 

 

For Dube, my guess is he gets suspended and his contract just run out. Dube would not count against the cap if he is suspended. 

[travel_dude]

9 hours ago, cross16 said:

My suspicion would be the first move is the players will get suspended while the proceedings unfold. I'd be a little surprised to see contract's terminated at this point but possible. 

 

For Dube, my guess is he gets suspended and his contract just run out. Dube would not count against the cap if he is suspended. 

 

I'm guessing in that scenario that even if found not guilty, we will not qualify nor go to arbitration.  He goes to a UFA.  EDM may want to look at this collection of players for the summer.

 

[cross16]

17 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I'm guessing in that scenario that even if found not guilty, we will not qualify nor go to arbitration.  He goes to a UFA.  EDM may want to look at this collection of players for the summer.

 

Right now it sounds like this won’t be a quick trial and could take over a year. So my guess is he gets suspended, non qualified and then UFa. Past that I think he remains suspended by the nhl and like never plays a game in the NHL again. 
 

 

[The_People1]

How many years jail time are they looking at if found guilty?

[Kulstad]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

How many years jail time are they looking at if found guilty?

 

https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/section-271.html

[DirtyDeeds]

 

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/sports/curling/nhl-addresses-sexual-assault-charges-against-four-players/vi-BB1hGUwp?ocid=socialshare&pc=NMTS&cvid=79ed50216338403e9c1ba919b739cb16&ei=28

 

Title of the above say 4 players. Everyone else is talking 5 players. Bettman talks about the NHL did an investigation a couple of years ago on their own. It seems they won't comment further take action until after everything has been dealt with by courts.

[The_People1]

54 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said:

 

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/sports/curling/nhl-addresses-sexual-assault-charges-against-four-players/vi-BB1hGUwp?ocid=socialshare&pc=NMTS&cvid=79ed50216338403e9c1ba919b739cb16&ei=28

 

Title of the above say 4 players. Everyone else is talking 5 players. Bettman talks about the NHL did an investigation a couple of years ago on their own. It seems they won't comment further take action until after everything has been dealt with by courts.

 

Because Alex Formenton is not an NHL player, technically speaking.  He's playing in Europe.

 

But ya, 5 players from WJC.  We'll see where all this goes.  There's really nothing much to comment on as they did their investigation and everything checked out on their end.

[cross16]

In that speech he emphasized some interesting words. Says their investigator spoke with those who “were willing to participate”. 
 

I don’t think that’s by accident. It’s possible their investigation didn’t include talking to the victim, which would mean it’s not necessarily true their investigation means everything is clear. 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

In that speech he emphasized some interesting words. Says their investigator spoke with those who “were willing to participate”. 
 

I don’t think that’s by accident. It’s possible their investigation didn’t include talking to the victim, which would mean it’s not necessarily true their investigation means everything is clear. 

 

I understood that the victim chose not to speak to the NHL investigator.

I don't think the NHL did any better than Hockey Canada did, even most recently.

NHL is first interested in proecting the btand, then the players and then the victims.

Protecting the players is to protect the brand.

The victims are given a nod, but I think it's well down the list.

There are problems in the league but I don't think it's as toxic as some outsiders would have you believe.

[phoenix66]

50 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I understood that the victim chose not to speak to the NHL investigator.

I don't think the NHL did any better than Hockey Canada did, even most recently.

NHL is first interested in proecting the btand, then the players and then the victims.

Protecting the players is to protect the brand.

The victims are given a nod, but I think it's well down the list.

There are problems in the league but I don't think it's as toxic as some outsiders would have you believe.

Yep.. he specifically said at one point the victim declined to speak with the NHL...

Couple other points that were made ..

- the teams were.not privy to any details of the investigation and would know "only what players have told them " 

The NHL was not privy to any details of the London investigation and vice versa 

- he brushed off the notion of the players playing while waiting for trial ..just saying "they're away from their teams now and not under contract past this season."..adding " I would hope they'd focus on their legal battle instead of playing after that" .. in other words of a team attempts to sign one they'll cross that bridge then 

It will be interesting to see if any of these terms offer QOs to keep their rights but I'd be highly surprised ..and more than a little disappointed if they do 

[The_People1]

Well, luckily (or unluckily), the #metoo era is coming to an end.  It's not true just because she said it was.  We're going to court now.

 

It doesn't look good but I think it's fair if the team and league withholds judgement until after the trial.  If acquited, then there was no victim and it was all consensual, even if regrettable.

[robrob74]

13 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

Well, luckily (or unluckily), the #metoo era is coming to an end.  It's not true just because she said it was.  We're going to court now.

 

It doesn't look good but I think it's fair if the team and league withholds judgement until after the trial.  If acquited, then there was no victim and it was all consensual, even if regrettable.

i don't know. We've seen many kids "get off" even when it was clear it was rape because of their privilege. Look at Brock, while convicted, he only served 3 months. Different circumstance but is that enough of a deterrent for these guys.

 

In this situation it sounds like consenting was one thing, but not consenting to everything that happened is another. 
 

many times even if the person is not convicted doesn't mean it didn't happen. Thats the problem with either it's black or white justice. 

[phoenix66]

18 hours ago, The_People1 said:

Well, luckily (or unluckily), the #metoo era is coming to an end.  It's not true just because she said it was.  We're going to court now.

 

It doesn't look good but I think it's fair if the team and league withholds judgement until after the trial.  If acquited, then there was no victim and it was all consensual, even if regrettable.

Problem is even then the stigma never goes away .  Jake Virtanen will likely never play in the league again and his accuser changed her story ...

But true..now i want to hear details so it can come out ..  it doesn't look good for sure...and lawyers have to say what they say so you have to take it with a grand of salt but all of those lawyer statements sounded pretty aggressive towards their clients being innocent.. I wan to hear what both sides present 

[sak22]

2 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

Problem is even then the stigma never goes away .  Jake Virtanen will likely never play in the league again and his accuser changed her story ...

But true..now i want to hear details so it can come out ..  it doesn't look good for sure...and lawyers have to say what they say so you have to take it with a grand of salt but all of those lawyer statements sounded pretty aggressive towards their clients being innocent.. I wan to hear what both sides present 

Important to note, Jake Virtanen's play was not good his last few years, he was given a PTO by Mr. 2nd chances, and for the most part has been a noted douchebag dating back to his Hitmen days, if he was good enough at hockey he'd be playing like Patrick Kane.  I still don't think the verdict and inconsistencies paint innocence, just not guilty which is a problem on why many don't come forward.  I could care less how their lawyer statements came across, everyone who fights charges do the same, until proof comes out that none of them were in the room.  Needing to record a drunk person saying it was consensual and texting the next day telling the person not to go to the cops are pretty telling signs.

 

As far as the me too  going away, I think as long as men want to be skeptical of most women and can't accept that other men have serious issues it will never go away.  I've never preyed on the drunkest girl in the bar, or continued to feed shots until I felt she'd be drunk enough, never slept with someone passed out, never invited friends to participate or asked a friend if I can participate, things that seem normal to me and even at periods of high intoxication I've been able to control myself, its not that difficult.  Instead of skepticism towards victims, how about viewing the men who view women as conquests and notches on their belt as disgraceful pigs.  And being mad at the higher powers. 

 

People are furious that Chicago got Connor Bedard, but why is there no outrage that Hockey Canada got to benefit from him.  It is my belief that a proper punishment would be for the IIHF to suspend Hockey Canada, Russians can't compete because of their government so I think Canada should face similar consequences  Won't happen because Canada is the meal ticket but I would support it.

[robrob74]

3 hours ago, sak22 said:

Important to note, Jake Virtanen's play was not good his last few years, he was given a PTO by Mr. 2nd chances, and for the most part has been a noted douchebag dating back to his Hitmen days, if he was good enough at hockey he'd be playing like Patrick Kane.  I still don't think the verdict and inconsistencies paint innocence, just not guilty which is a problem on why many don't come forward.  I could care less how their lawyer statements came across, everyone who fights charges do the same, until proof comes out that none of them were in the room.  Needing to record a drunk person saying it was consensual and texting the next day telling the person not to go to the cops are pretty telling signs.

 

As far as the me too  going away, I think as long as men want to be skeptical of most women and can't accept that other men have serious issues it will never go away.  I've never preyed on the drunkest girl in the bar, or continued to feed shots until I felt she'd be drunk enough, never slept with someone passed out, never invited friends to participate or asked a friend if I can participate, things that seem normal to me and even at periods of high intoxication I've been able to control myself, its not that difficult.  Instead of skepticism towards victims, how about viewing the men who view women as conquests and notches on their belt as disgraceful pigs.  And being mad at the higher powers. 

 

People are furious that Chicago got Connor Bedard, but why is there no outrage that Hockey Canada got to benefit from him.  It is my belief that a proper punishment would be for the IIHF to suspend Hockey Canada, Russians can't compete because of their government so I think Canada should face similar consequences  Won't happen because Canada is the meal ticket but I would support it.

There's a notion the Me Too is a problem with men, no it's a problem with the fact that there are men who prey on women. It's not an attack on men as much as it's an ask for many men to do better and asking men not to continue that behaviour. 
 

it's trying to make the world a better place for women not to tear all men down, only those that have done that crap are being called out. 
 

I agree with you, there should be more done by IIHF to suspend Canada. How many hush money payouts has Canada made using Canadian funds? Hockey Canada had a severe problem and Betman is wrong when he says it's not a problem in Hockey... or the NHL.

[DirtyDeeds]

Question and Answer format of the present state along with some possibilities.

 

 

 

Next court date for 5 ex-Canadian world junior hockey players in sex assault case set for April 30 (msn.com)

[jjgallow]

I'm saying this completely in isolation,

 

But I saw some clips of the police media scrum.  Came across to me as incompetent.

 

They put forward all the token races and genders, then got lost in a tangent trying to educate the public about how rape was caused by watching movies.   Couldn't answer any meaningful questions.

 

Whether it happened, or did happen...  they are embarrassing.

[robrob74]

15 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

I'm saying this completely in isolation,

 

But I saw some clips of the police media scrum.  Came across to me as incompetent.

 

They put forward all the token races and genders, then got lost in a tangent trying to educate the public about how rape was caused by watching movies.   Couldn't answer any meaningful questions.

 

Whether it happened, or did happen...  they are embarrassing.

trying to make it a teachable moment? 
 

just state what you can legally and say it's now up to the courts. Say As police they they take this very seriously and it has no place in our society... 

 

we let this happen and stuff it off. I didn't watch it, but just going on what you shared. 

our justice system seems a lot like the department of player safety and suspensions. Going off sheer observations and not any real facts:

 

All of the players who are bottom 6 get the most suspensions. anyone in start categories get off a lot easier than those who don't have the caches. Rich get off because they have more to lose and the poor get the long sentences... 

 

[phoenix66]

16 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

I'm saying this completely in isolation,

 

But I saw some clips of the police media scrum.  Came across to me as incompetent.

 

They put forward all the token races and genders, then got lost in a tangent trying to educate the public about how rape was caused by watching movies.   Couldn't answer any meaningful questions.

 

Whether it happened, or did happen...  they are embarrassing.

To be somewhat fair.. after the morning announcement that the initial date has been adjourned to April , so lawyers can receive and review all the discovery evidence, and no pleas have been entered yet.. we knew this was all we were gonna get today ...  Some things you can read between the lines on...

 

2nd charge against MacLeod would indicate he is John Doe 1

 

Only charges that "currently" have sufficient evidence have been laid.. tho she didn't acknowledge she also didn't rule out more to come possibly 

 

 

Past that.. it's pure legitimate legality that we won't hear any more details until they come out in court 

 

 

[cross16]

It's just typical lack of accountability and passing the buck that has become prevalent in society. Rather than admit to any wrong doing or addressing why it really took the media to get them to do their job, or why they dropped the case back in 2019, they suggest it's actually videos and media that is at fault. 

 

Totally shameful responses. Just take some accountability 

[sak22]

 

 

[travel_dude]

57 minutes ago, cross16 said:

It's just typical lack of accountability and passing the buck that has become prevalent in society. Rather than admit to any wrong doing or addressing why it really took the media to get them to do their job, or why they dropped the case back in 2019, they suggest it's actually videos and media that is at fault. 

 

Totally shameful responses. Just take some accountability 

 

Nobody wants to admit liability these days, where the possible outcome is a civil suit.

 

[travel_dude]

9 minutes ago, sak22 said:

 

 

 

Interesting turn of event.  Can't say I am surprised.  The logical outcome is that none of these players return to their former teams, regardless of outcome.  That is 99% likely because none have contracts past this year.  The unsaid thing among the GM's is that they are untouchable.  If a RFA, they will be UFA.  

 

 

[cross16]

1 hour ago, sak22 said:

 

 

 

This is standard when a player is suspended for off ice incidents. Not saying a suspension is guaranteed in this case but i would suspect it's coming. 

 

Even if they choose not to suspend, at least they are proceeding in a consistent manor 

 

 

[zima]

19 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Interesting turn of event.  Can't say I am surprised.  The logical outcome is that none of these players return to their former teams, regardless of outcome.  That is 99% likely because none have contracts past this year.  The unsaid thing among the GM's is that they are untouchable.  If a RFA, they will be UFA.  

 

 

So your saying we lose another player for nothing in return? So we lost a first over Mony I still will never understand that move. This team is going into a dumpster dive I don't think we can dig our way out.