2022 Offseason

[The_People1]

25 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Had it been Gaudreau, I'd have hated the contract.

We've done nothing but spin tires with him. I'm very happy with this change of direction. The cap will go up.

I'll like Weegar's deal too, I'm sure. It could be $8per honestly. JG & Tkachuk would equal $20mil per for 8 years. I did not love that idea.

Call me crazy, but I prefer Huberdeau and Weegar under that number. I can't believe how many Flames fans that were sour on Tkachuk's play are turning around now thinking that he's a huge loss.

But he was brought up being taught respect. So my hat goes off to him for being a man about it. I have a whole new respect for him.

Words you never heard me say:

JG-Lindholm-Tkachuk, best line in the NHL. Never believed that. People love shiny numbers.

 

Lol get outta here $8-mil for Weegar is okay?  I wish he was that good.  He has to be stud #1 D... He's only rode shotgun with Ekblad much like Brodie enjoyed shotgun with Giordano.  If Weegar is just a Brodie, then no way we pay $8-mil.

 

I think it's close Andersson > Weegar but I would he happy for Weegar to prove me wrong.

[jjgallow]

18 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

There are two ways to look at this signing:

 

1. BT desperate to win his trade.

2. The Flames needed to make a statement that superstars are willing to commit to Calgary long term.

 

Ya it's a huge gamble paying any player $10.5-mil until 38-years-old especially in Huberdeau's case since we don't know if he will fit into the team's play style.  Maybe no chemistry with his new teammates.  Lots of things are unknown unlike Gaudreau or Tkachuk who are known to us.

 

For me, I like the statement but I don't like this smelling like BT wants to turn a negative into a positive by reaching to this extent.  It hurts the Flames long term.

 

It could hurt us long term yes.  I don't know all the ins and outs of the deal.  But I'm assuming that we could, in fact:

1.  Trade him.  What's he really worth...$9mil?   We could eat $1.5m in a potential trade, not sure if that would count against cap

2.   In the later years maybe buy him out possibly?

 

I'm of the opinion that Huberdeau specfically could keep going to around 35 effectively, so there's just 2 bad years really.

 

I'm quite sure if I really understood the specifics of the contract I'd be my usual negative self.

So don't tell me lol.

[travel_dude]

12 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

There are two ways to look at this signing:

 

1. BT desperate to win his trade.

2. The Flames needed to make a statement that superstars are willing to commit to Calgary long term.

 

Ya it's a huge gamble paying any player $10.5-mil until 38-years-old especially in Huberdeau's case since we don't know if he will fit into the team's play style.  Maybe no chemistry with his new teammates.  Lots of things are unknown unlike Gaudreau or Tkachuk who are known to us.

 

For me, I like the statement but I don't like this smelling like BT wants to turn a negative into a positive by reaching to this extent.  It hurts the Flames long term.

 

It ruins the plans to rebuild in 3 years no doubt.

What is the point in making a trade if you are just stepping stone trading them again?

The two pieces offered were a good return for a player that wanted out and for a RFA that would cost a ton.

 

Let's face it, we needed a retool.  Gaudreau leaving made staying with Tkachuk impossible.

As much as Tkachuk drives the play, he rides on coat tails as well.

Had we re-signed both 13 and 19, we are worse off than last year.

No improvement to the D and we have to find some way to trade our worst contracts.

If you are over the cap, GM's will hand you an anchor over a lifeboat.

A pair of 2nds to move Monahan.

A prospect to move Lucic or same as Lucic.

Or we move Backlund because we can't afford him now.

Or we trade Mangiapane for picks.

[conundrumed]

17 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Lol get outta here $8-mil for Weegar is okay?  I wish he was that good.  He has to be stud #1 D... He's only rode shotgun with Ekblad much like Brodie enjoyed shotgun with Giordano.  If Weegar is just a Brodie, then no way we pay $8-mil.

 

I think it's close Andersson > Weegar but I would he happy for Weegar to prove me wrong.

You honestly believe Ekblad covered for Weegar? Dude, no.

 

[The_People1]

Just now, conundrumed said:

You honestly believe Ekblad covered for Weegar? Dude, no.

 

 

Weegar benefitted at least a bit by pairing with Ekblad.  Without a stud D to pair with now, let's see if he can keep it up.  (I hope so of course).

[travel_dude]

Just now, jjgallow said:

 

It could hurt us long term yes.  I don't know all the ins and outs of the deal.  But I'm assuming that we could, in fact:

1.  Trade him.  What's he really worth...$9mil?   We could eat $1.5m in a potential trade, not sure if that would count against cap

2.   In the later years maybe buy him out possibly?

 

I'm of the opinion that Huberdeau specfically could keep going to around 35 effectively, so there's just 2 bad years really.

 

I'm quite sure if I really understood the specifics of the contract I'd be my usual negative self.

So don't tell me lol.

 

Quick answer is the annual matches the AAV exactly.

But it's the bonus structure that makes it interesting.

We don't have final reporting on it, but $61.5M in SB and $22.5M in salary.

Final year is $5M in SB and $5.5M in salary.

Year 7 is far more interesting; $9.5M in SB and $1M in salary.

[sak22]

7 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

There are two ways to look at this signing:

 

1. BT desperate to win his trade.

2. The Flames needed to make a statement that superstars are willing to commit to Calgary long term.

 

Ya it's a huge gamble paying any player $10.5-mil until 38-years-old especially in Huberdeau's case since we don't know if he will fit into the team's play style.  Maybe no chemistry with his new teammates.  Lots of things are unknown unlike Gaudreau or Tkachuk who are known to us.

 

For me, I like the statement but I don't like this smelling like BT wants to turn a negative into a positive by reaching to this extent.  It hurts the Flames long term.

How exactly?  Gained a future first and a prospect in the trade, have traded zero picks this summer and still a relatively young team.  The reality is a lot more trade deadline deals really wind up having zero impact on the selling team, we complain about our Iggy and Bouwmeester returns, but that is really par for the course if you look into a lot of these deals.

[conundrumed]

8 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Weegar benefitted at least a bit by pairing with Ekblad.  Without a stud D to pair with now, let's see if he can keep it up.  (I hope so of course).

This is a pretty equal equation. They boosted each other. Now who does Ekblad pair with?

What a dangerous game Zito is playing here. They are not competing for a President's Trophy this year, I can near guarantee it. Tkachuk does not drive play anything like Huberdeau does. And you lost your 2D? Ouch.

[jjgallow]

16 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Quick answer is the annual matches the AAV exactly.

But it's the bonus structure that makes it interesting.

We don't have final reporting on it, but $61.5M in SB and $22.5M in salary.

Final year is $5M in SB and $5.5M in salary.

Year 7 is far more interesting; $9.5M in SB and $1M in salary.

 

Encouraging

[conundrumed]

17 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Weegar benefitted at least a bit by pairing with Ekblad.  Without a stud D to pair with now, let's see if he can keep it up.  (I hope so of course).

That is a 3 year weighted average. Ekblad had injuries that kept him out.

Weegar is a lot better than Brodie. You're thinking he makes Brodie-type mistakes, which is true, but he's a lot better than Brodie.

[The_People1]

20 minutes ago, sak22 said:

How exactly?  Gained a future first and a prospect in the trade, have traded zero picks this summer and still a relatively young team.  The reality is a lot more trade deadline deals really wind up having zero impact on the selling team, we complain about our Iggy and Bouwmeester returns, but that is really par for the course if you look into a lot of these deals.

 

I meant the signing in isolation hurts the team long term.  35+ player making $10.5-mil isn't ideal.  It would have been a much more daring move to trade Huberdeau for more picks and prospects to kick start a rebuild.  It would surely help accelerate it and create a better long term vision for the team.

[zima]

I'm pretty happy with BT on this signing it's a little high but you get what you pay for I hope he has size and weight and put up tons of points perhap that was what we needed to get pass the second or third round.I know the price was crazy but to keep a quality forward like him it's going to cost or he will go else where

 

[The_People1]

12 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

That is a 3 year weighted average. Ekblad had injuries that kept him out.

Weegar is a lot better than Brodie. You're thinking he makes Brodie-type mistakes, which is true, but he's a lot better than Brodie.

 

But still, $8-mil-per is okay?

 

Would like to keep it at $6-mil x 4-years max.

[conundrumed]

3 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

But still, $8-mil-per is okay?

 

Would like to keep it at $6-mil x 4-years max.

I think $7 actually. But I could live with $8 kicking in when the cap goes up.

He's better than Nurse @ $9.5.lol

A much smarter player.

[sak22]

4 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I meant the signing in isolation hurts the team long term.  35+ player making $10.5-mil isn't ideal.  It would have been a much more daring move to trade Huberdeau for more picks and prospects to kick start a rebuild.  It would surely help accelerate it and create a better long term vision for the team.

What's the cap going to be by the time he is 35?  When we traded Iginla at 35 he made up 12% of the salary cap, 30 year old Huberdeau will take up 12.5% of the cap next year and by the time he hits 35 the cap could be in the 90's and a smaller %.  Add in by that time there will be players making over 15 a season.

[zima]

2 minutes ago, sak22 said:

What's the cap going to be by the time he is 35?  When we traded Iginla at 35 he made up 12% of the salary cap, 30 year old Huberdeau will take up 12.5% of the cap next year and by the time he hits 35 the cap could be in the 90's and a smaller %.  Add in by that time there will be players making over 15 a season.

Wouldn't having him locked for 8 give use a better trade option ? who ever gets him knows he will be theres for long term.

[conundrumed]

6 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

But still, $8-mil-per is okay?

 

Would like to keep it at $6-mil x 4-years max.

It also accomplishes removing the uncertainty crap we just played. If you have a bit of overpay to ensure certainty with salaries, I'm not against that. We have a world of expiring deals in 2 years.

Lindholm

Backlund

Toffoli

Dube

Rooney (whatevs)

Pelletier (RFA)

Tanev

Andersson

Kylington

Zadorov

Wolf

That is a weight. Half the roster.

 

[conundrumed]

3 minutes ago, zima said:

Wouldn't having him locked for 8 give use a better trade option ? who ever gets him knows he will be theres for long term.

NTC for 6 years, so no.

[The_People1]

4 minutes ago, sak22 said:

What's the cap going to be by the time he is 35?  When we traded Iginla at 35 he made up 12% of the salary cap, 30 year old Huberdeau will take up 12.5% of the cap next year and by the time he hits 35 the cap could be in the 90's and a smaller %.  Add in by that time there will be players making over 15 a season.

 

Does it even need to be explained why paying a player 35+ is a risk?

[sak22]

1 minute ago, The_People1 said:

 

Does it even need to be explained why paying a player 35+ is a risk?

Nope.  Everything in the game is a risk, relying on the draft lottery is a risk.

[The_People1]

16 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I think $7 actually. But I could live with $8 kicking in when the cap goes up.

He's better than Nurse @ $9.5.lol

A much smarter player.

 

Nurse is only slightly better than Zadorov... Ya that $9.5-mil is going to hurt the Oilers a lot.

 

$7-mil for Weegar feels like too much.  I hope he really gels with our group... Right now it feels like Andersson, Weegar, and Tanev are our 3 best D and all RHS... And none are true #1D.  Hanifin is a second pairing talent... It still feels like we are missing a #1 LD.  Don't want to overpay for a RD when we've got issues on LD.

[travel_dude]

8 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Does it even need to be explained why paying a player 35+ is a risk?

 

You can look at it in a slightly different light.

Joe Pavelsky was heavily sought after.

He signed for 3 years in DAL, technically not a +35 contract then but he turned 35 days later.

So, you sign Hubie to 6 years and may have to add to the dollars, so maybe 11.0M.

Prorate Joe Pav's $7M into future value.

You are easily at 10 then.

 

So, risky?  Yes.  But maybe he doesn't sign for less than 8 years.

 

[travel_dude]

10 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Nurse is only slightly better than Zadorov... Ya that $9.5-mil is going to hurt the Oilers a lot.

 

$7-mil for Weegar feels like too much.  I hope he really gels with our group... Right now it feels like Andersson, Weegar, and Tanev are our 3 best D and all RHS... And none are true #1D.  Hanifin is a second pairing talent... It still feels like we are missing a #1 LD.  Don't want to overpay for a RD when we've got issues on LD.

 

So, Weegar spent his best times playing LD.

By accounts, better than Hanifin.

In other words, closer to a 1D.

[cross16]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Lol get outta here $8-mil for Weegar is okay?  I wish he was that good.  He has to be stud #1 D... He's only rode shotgun with Ekblad much like Brodie enjoyed shotgun with Giordano.  If Weegar is just a Brodie, then no way we pay $8-mil.

 

I think it's close Andersson > Weegar but I would he happy for Weegar to prove me wrong.

think you need to take a look at the market. Morgan Reily commanded 7.5, Lindholm 6.5,  the Nurse deal, Seth Jones. Heck I don’t think even think Sergachev is elite and they just paid him over 8 mill per. 
 

I can understand the hesitation around Wergar if you haven’t seen him play. He’s quite a bit better than Brodie(and this is from someone who loved Brodie) and is imo the flames number one dman right now, not even close. 
 

But if you want to get a player like him you’ll be paying a lot for it. 
 

if it were me I’d lock up Weegar, pair him with Anderson and then explore trading Hanifin. 

[travel_dude]

20 minutes ago, cross16 said:

think you need to take a look at the market. Morgan Reily commanded 7.5, Lindholm 6.5,  the Nurse deal, Seth Jones. Heck I don’t think even think Sergachev is elite and they just paid him over 8 mill per. 
 

I can understand the hesitation around Wergar if you haven’t seen him play. He’s quite a bit better than Brodie(and this is from someone who loved Brodie) and is imo the flames number one dman right now, not even close. 
 

But if you want to get a player like him you’ll be paying a lot for it. 
 

if it were me I’d lock up Weegar, pair him with Anderson and then explore trading Hanifin. 

 

That last part sounds funny coming from a guy that supported Hanifin over Kylington.

But I get the logic in it.

I think we have seen Hanifin's peak.

We may see improvement or digression from Kylington.

I don't think the value of Hanifin over Kylington justifies spending that much on 6D.

If he's a trade chip, use him to get something top 6.

It's not a cap dump.

Hanifin offers value for his salary, and like Chychrun should be worth something on the market.

Lower cost, high offense.