2022 Offseason

[sak22]

2 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

A team like NJ would wrap their team around JG and very likely know he'll sign there ..  Matt is a young star .. 

remember .. we once offered 3 first rounders for 1st overall (McKinnon)and people wanted to hang Feaster for it .. who wouldn't make that trade in a time machine now ?

Yeah we offered that, it was turned down, shows how hard it is.  I wasn't one of those who wanted to hang him for it, the rumored #6 + Gaudreau for Seguin was a different story.  If NJ feels they can sign him they won't give up that asset to jump the que, they don't get the extra year (which they probably don't want anyway), as much as people say losing Gaudreau for nothing is a fireable offense, trading a #2 pick for nothing you probably don't even work in TV after.  Again we are running under a huge assumption the guy wants to play in his home state, the team isn't a Gaudreau away from being a competitive team in that division, after Gaudreau and Bratt sign, they wouldn't have much to throw to defense which is their biggest weakness along with goaltending.

[phoenix66]

14 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Who wanted to hang Feaster?  It may have seemed stiff, but that's the going price in a high end draft.

lots of people in here thought he was Nuts 

[The_People1]

3 hours ago, cross16 said:

There is merit to the discussion around Tkachuk for 2 OA (assuming Wright is there) and another prospect. I highly doubt you get Holtz in that move but if you did it would be worth considering for sure. 

 

however, if the plan is do that and still remain competitive I would view that as hard to do. I really like Wright but I think he is 2-3 years away from making an impact so I do think you take a step back in that deal even if you can keep Gaudreau. I also think it would like be 2 OA and maybe a Nolan Foote or Ty Smith level prospect. I would be very surprised to see the Devils give up 2 top 10 picks for Tkachuk. 

 

We must get Holtz too or no deal.  Add if we have to.  He's RHS RW 20-years-old.  He had his 9-game cup of coffee already last season.  He was Point per game in the AHL.  He's ready come camp and we could slot him in to replace Tkachuk or at least alternate him with Toffoli throughout the season.

 

I think 25-goal 60pt rookie season is possible and then eventually point per game player.

 

Oh and also, I think it's important to do the trade pre-draft because if Wright falls to #2 then the price of the 2OA goes up.

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

Many believe if Johnny doesnt sign, we go into scorched earth mode..  I dont tend to believe that , but I admit the closer it gets im losing faith in Johnny signing .. plus if hes not signed by draft , that hurts a lot of next move strategy 

 

what if we went all out ?

 

TO NJ

Johnny 

 

To Calgary 

2OA + Player x

 

To MTL

Tkachuk

 

To Calgary 

1OA + Player X

 

Draft Wright + Slafkovsky

both players likely wont , but are projected to be NHL ready so it wont be a long wait , but in the meantime .. toss some money at Kadri, resign both your 3rd pair D.. there are suitable players available who can help this team 

gamble that Monahan is back to playing form .. if only to raise his trade value at the deadline 

we may take a one year dip, likely still make playoffs but by year 2 we'll be a force 

Slafovsky has all the makings of another Draisaitl 

Wright projects as a #1 C

 

Well firstly, of course we won't go scorched earth rebuild.  Most of us are saying we "should" knowing we wouldn't.

 

And no way Gaudreau's UFA rights are worth a 2OA.  At best a 3rd round pick.  It's doubtful teams like PHI and NJ feel they need to offer the 8th year to get an advantage over the other.  

 

But I like the idea of being proactive in moving Tkachuk at the draft. If we can get Wright, then we have to consider the move.

[Heartbreaker]

2 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

lots of people in here thought he was Nuts 

 

I'm a little disappointed, and I feel like we were lied to.

 

This is the summer that we were all supposed to reflect, and recognize that Mark Jankowski was the best player to come out of the 2012 draft. Currently, he's 52nd in games played, and 46th in points.

 

I'm not convinced that he's any better than the 43rd best player from the 2012 draft, and I think that's pretty generous.

 

Turns out JJ was right. That was not the correct pick.

 

Love.

[sak22]

21 minutes ago, Heartbreaker said:

 

I'm a little disappointed, and I feel like we were lied to.

 

This is the summer that we were all supposed to reflect, and recognize that Mark Jankowski was the best player to come out of the 2012 draft. Currently, he's 52nd in games played, and 46th in points.

 

I'm not convinced that he's any better than the 43rd best player from the 2012 draft, and I think that's pretty generous.

 

Turns out JJ was right. That was not the correct pick.

 

Love.

To be fair, this year he had more points in the NHL than the #1 from his draft class, so if he would've worded it that he'd be better than the #1 he'd have been right.  How many people back in the day wanted to "Fail" for that guy?

[The_People1]

 

[cross16]

4 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

A team like NJ would wrap their team around JG and very likely know he'll sign there ..  Matt is a young star .. 

remember .. we once offered 3 first rounders for 1st overall (McKinnon)and people wanted to hang Feaster for it .. who wouldn't make that trade in a time machine now ?

 

And how bad would Colorado look if they took that deal? There were some that thought Colorado was nuts to turn that down but they easily made the right call. 

 

I just saw a tweet on this but I think in the salary cap era Top 10 picks have been moved like 5 times. If you don't luck into that pick (ie make a deal with a team that moves it not thinking they are a lottery team) it's almost impossible to acquire them. There is too much value placed on the idea of getting elite talent that is young and cost controlled that teams just don't want to give up. 

 

[cross16]

1 hour ago, sak22 said:

To be fair, this year he had more points in the NHL than the #1 from his draft class, so if he would've worded it that he'd be better than the #1 he'd have been right.  How many people back in the day wanted to "Fail" for that guy?

 

That was a really off year for the draft and probably one of the worst draft classes we've seen in over 20 years. Flames still totally butchered it but I think it's fair to recognize it was a bad draft class.

 

And in all honest Jankowski is not a horrible pick for where he was taken and for the class he was part of.  The problem was trading down and how Feaster handled the press after the fact. I still can't believe the organization was comfortable moving forward with him after that (well technically they weren't). 

[tmac70]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Well firstly, of course we won't go scorched earth rebuild.  Most of us are saying we "should" knowing we wouldn't.

 

And no way Gaudreau's UFA rights are worth a 2OA.  At best a 3rd round pick.  It's doubtful teams like PHI and NJ feel they need to offer the 8th year to get an advantage over the other.  

 

But I like the idea of being proactive in moving Tkachuk at the draft. If we can get Wright, then we have to consider the move.

So you belive that Wright will be better than or equal to Matthew? That is what needs to happen in order for this to work

[Thebrewcrew]

I think Shane Wright will go 1st, so I really don't see an NJ deal for 2nd happening.

 

MTL has been looking for centres for a decade, now they have a chance to have Suzuki/Wright down the middle. Pretty good for the Habs. 

[The_People1]

29 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I think Shane Wright will go 1st, so I really don't see an NJ deal for 2nd happening.

 

MTL has been looking for centres for a decade, now they have a chance to have Suzuki/Wright down the middle. Pretty good for the Habs. 

 

Well the twist is, Slafkovksy has played some Center and says he's comfortable moving back to Center full time.

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, tmac70 said:

So you belive that Wright will be better than or equal to Matthew? That is what needs to happen in order for this to work

 

It's a gamble with all prospects.  Plus, Wright needs 2-3 years to hit prime so there's part of it that's a step backwards for now in order to take two steps forwards in the future.  That's why we need Wright+.  Tkachuk is a complete product coming off a 40G 100pt season so that is superstar level production.  At 24, it's fair to speculate we can get 2OA + Holtz from NJ.  Holtz hasn't proved anything yet at the NHL level although he has tremendous potential to break out next season.

[Thebrewcrew]

7 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Well the twist is, Slafkovksy has played some Center and says he's comfortable moving back to Center full time.

They might love Slafkovsky, I just have a hard time seeing them passing on Wright. The draft being at home for them definitely plays a factor. Really hard to pass on the "good Canadian boy". That may not be the right move, but it's certainly in play.

[robrob74]

11 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Not sure what's going on with the rest of your roster by doing this.

32 year old goalie, 32 year old 2nd pair D, 33 year old Backlund.

Instead of building from experience, we are giving up the year.

 

I get the sense of trading Tkachuk, if you can keep Gaudreau.

We are down a top RW.

But going for a top pick that might be 3 years before productive?

I would look at Hischier, since NJ has a ton of C's. 

He's locked up at a reasonable cap hit.

Gives us a #2C.

Get them to add something secondary to the deal.

 

 

can you not supplement top RW with Toffoli? Although not a lot of chemistry on the PP with Johnny and Lindholm, but….

 

depends on whether Wright is ready to play so even though he probably isn’t, at least you can cushion him with a third line c position with Backlund able to take 2nd line. 
 

Lindholm, Backlund, Wright, Ruzicka/Jarnkrok. Not bad… 

[The_People1]

3 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

They might love Slafkovsky, I just have a hard time seeing them passing on Wright. The draft being at home for them definitely plays a factor. Really hard to pass on the "good Canadian boy". That may not be the right move, but it's certainly in play.

 

There is a chance MTL trades the #1 OA for "good French Canadian boy" Pierre-luc Dubios.  So there's that going around.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

can you not supplement top RW with Toffoli? Although not a lot of chemistry on the PP with Johnny and Lindholm, but….

 

depends on whether Wright is ready to play so even though he probably isn’t, at least you can cushion him with a third line c position with Backlund able to take 2nd line. 
 

Lindholm, Backlund, Wright, Ruzicka/Jarnkrok. Not bad… 

 

There's "ready to play" and then there's "ready to make an impact" and they are not the same thing.  Wright will probably need 2-3 years before he will make an impact as he's not generational talent like McDavid/Crosby. 

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, robrob74 said:

can you not supplement top RW with Toffoli? Although not a lot of chemistry on the PP with Johnny and Lindholm, but….

 

depends on whether Wright is ready to play so even though he probably isn’t, at least you can cushion him with a third line c position with Backlund able to take 2nd line. 
 

Lindholm, Backlund, Wright, Ruzicka/Jarnkrok. Not bad… 

 

The PP is a differrent beast.  Toffee on the off wing, but not set up very often.

Between him and Lindholm, only good one-timer options, not 100% deadly.

Anyway...

 

For me it only works if we keep one of the big fish.

I think long term less risk and short term better results if we traded Tkachuk for Hischier.

They aren't trading Hughes, which is fine.

Tkachuk gives them a top winger and we keep the top playmaker in the league.

Have to replace the top RW spot. which should be easier than trying to compete with one top 6 C.

Not trashing Backlund, as he's up to the task right now.

2 years from now maybe not so much.

 

Gaudreau-Lindholm-?

?-Hischier-Toffoli

Mangiapane-Backlund-Coleman

?-Rozie-Jarnkrok

 

That seems like some holes, but we have a bit of cap and a couple prospects.

Ignore line numbering, Pelletier with Toffoli seems like a match.

Just need a N/S player for top RW.

 

 

[MP5029]

6 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

The PP is a differrent beast.  Toffee on the off wing, but not set up very often.

Between him and Lindholm, only good one-timer options, not 100% deadly.

Anyway...

 

For me it only works if we keep one of the big fish.

I think long term less risk and short term better results if we traded Tkachuk for Hischier.

They aren't trading Hughes, which is fine.

Tkachuk gives them a top winger and we keep the top playmaker in the league.

Have to replace the top RW spot. which should be easier than trying to compete with one top 6 C.

Not trashing Backlund, as he's up to the task right now.

2 years from now maybe not so much.

 

Gaudreau-Lindholm-?

?-Hischier-Toffoli

Mangiapane-Backlund-Coleman

?-Rozie-Jarnkrok

 

That seems like some holes, but we have a bit of cap and a couple prospects.

Ignore line numbering, Pelletier with Toffoli seems like a match.

Just need a N/S player for top RW.

 

 

I’d much rather loose Gaudreau over Tachuck…he’s younger, a power forward (rare theses days) and can score…

 

being younger he’s still gonna improve and to be honest I’d much rather a 32 year old Tachuck over a 37 year old gaudreau at or near the end of a long contract.

 

now having said that, I’d much rather keep both and move other player out like Lucic for sure, Backlund I think could be replaced with a younger player…

 

we may need to look at adding by subtracting with Monahan…or in an ideal world he rebounds and can slot in at #2 Ctr 

 

but no matter what I think it very prudent to lock down Tachuck…Manji, Kylington and maybe even Big Z 

 

gaudreau for me, at least at this point is a bit of a write off, if his heart was really here in Cgy he’d have signed by now.  Conversely I got the feel Tachuck was sincere about staying long term, more so than Gaudreau, so that’s even more reason to lock up Tachuck, he brings way more to the game than Gaudreau.

[conundrumed]

Has anyone watched Slafkovsky play? I haven't, I can only stat-watch. Nothing there jumps off of the page at me due to level of competition. I get McKenzie's rankings are via his compendium of scouts, fed through an algorithm and not actually his own blathering opinion. Are they basing this off of a couple of ECHL-level tournaments?

Because I can't stand basing rankings on tournaments. I think it's foolish, personally.

They say he's more NHL-ready than Wright and can take over a game.

Can someone point out to me where this happens, because his stat-line doesn't imply that.

Did that happen in 1 game, 2 games, or 9 out of 10 games? It's a pretty erroneous statement.

I don't trust scouts, for the record.lol

They're the reason "consensus" exists when it shouldn't.

[Thebrewcrew]

52 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Has anyone watched Slafkovsky play? I haven't, I can only stat-watch. Nothing there jumps off of the page at me due to level of competition. I get McKenzie's rankings are via his compendium of scouts, fed through an algorithm and not actually his own blathering opinion. Are they basing this off of a couple of ECHL-level tournaments?

Because I can't stand basing rankings on tournaments. I think it's foolish, personally.

They say he's more NHL-ready than Wright and can take over a game.

Can someone point out to me where this happens, because his stat-line doesn't imply that.

Did that happen in 1 game, 2 games, or 9 out of 10 games? It's a pretty erroneous statement.

I don't trust scouts, for the record.lol

They're the reason "consensus" exists when it shouldn't.

He's the unicorn power-forward that's so hard to find these days.

 

It's always tough to evaluate the kids in Europe that are playing pro at such a young age. Most often they're playing at the bottom of the lineup and not getting PP time. He did play very well in the Olympics though, scoring a goal a game. Pretty impressive for a teenager to do that against KHL players.

 

There's still some projection with Slafkovsky though. I've seen Rantanen comps, I've also seen Puljujarvi as a comp. 

[phoenix66]

So word on the Twitterverse Is that Flames have made a "significant" offer that financially will likely not be matched .. but no word from johnny's camp .

That makes me nervous ..  throw in new wife, bay on the way, family and home is down east.. that tells me he's weighing home and family over career and $..  family usually wins 

 

Reminds me of the Tavares scenario. On the one hand if he does leave , it's for all the right reasons and can't fault the guy for that..

On the other , if that was gonna be an option he should let the flames know to at least trade his rights . Even if signing here isn't off the table .

 

Good to note that he didn't block a trade like Tavares did ..that was a dbag move 

[LouCifer]

To your point Phoenix. Here’s a tweet I saw. 

[phoenix66]

5 minutes ago, LouCifer said:

To your point Phoenix. Here’s a tweet I saw. 

Awesome ..tried to find that one again..I heard it came from Friedman but no text from him I could find.. TSN guys said the same thing 

 

I like Kevin, used to work with that guy 

[conundrumed]

4 minutes ago, LouCifer said:

To your point Phoenix. Here’s a tweet I saw. 

As an aside...when you have money and summers off, Calgary is a much better place to raise a family.

It just is. Newark, NJ? Philly?

Honestly, you've got to be kidding me.