Calgary Flames 20/21 Roster and Lines

[The_People1]

24 minutes ago, ABC923 said:

Didn't mangiapane play mostly RW with Backlund and Tkachuk? 

 

A bit.  But mostly it was Tkachuk played RW with Backlund and Mangiapane.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

Welcome back everyone! Happy holidays and so forth. Lets start the year off with some nonsense from our good friend Francis.  I think he's been hitting the bottle a little too much this off season.

Who Will Be The Training Camp Star For The Flames? - YouTube

 

 

[JTech780]

Michael Stone and Garrett Sparks are coming to camp on PTO's. Friedman hinted that Brett Ritchie might be added on a PTO as well. 

 

With the taxi squad this year, you need extra NHL bodies, but you don't want young guys sitting there that need to play.

 

I can see a lot of the young guys staying in Stockton this year, especially with the quarantine time for coming to Canada from the States.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

58 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Michael Stone and Garrett Sparks are coming to camp on PTO's. Friedman hinted that Brett Ritchie might be added on a PTO as well. 

 

With the taxi squad this year, you need extra NHL bodies, but you don't want young guys sitting there that need to play.

 

I can see a lot of the young guys staying in Stockton this year, especially with the quarantine time for coming to Canada from the States.

Anyone know how many will be allowed in the taxi squad and how that is implemented cap wise?

 

I'm assuming for goalies they want to keep Zag, Wolf, and Parsons in the minors. Leaving BSD, Dominigue, and Sparks to battle for the 2 spots behind Markstrom. (unless they're carrying 4 goalies up top.

[JTech780]

19 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

Anyone know how many will be allowed in the taxi squad and how that is implemented cap wise?

 

I'm assuming for goalies they want to keep Zag, Wolf, and Parsons in the minors. Leaving BSD, Dominigue, and Sparks to battle for the 2 spots behind Markstrom. (unless they're carrying 4 goalies up top.

Here are the details for the taxi squad. It also sounds like Parsons won't be ready to go for awhile, ankle surgery. Adding Sparks gives them another option for the AHL.

 

Ward made an interesting comment about finding out if some of their natural centers can play the wing. They tried it with Backlund last year, but I wonder if they would look at moving Monahan or Ryan to the wing as well.

[JTech780]

Just thinking out loud here, but I can see a situation where the team would carry 2 goalies on the taxi squad. In the off chance one of the goalies tests positive for Covid there is a solid chance that both starting goalies could be out of action as they train and practice very closely. So say we lose two goalies to Covid, we would only have 1 goalie left and a goalie from Stockton would take two weeks to get to Calgary.

 

If it were me I would be carrying two goalies on the taxi squad just in case. This is going to be a weird season.

[rocketdoctor]

Lots of potential to manipulate the cap with the taxi squad rules.

 

The Athletic carried an article on it last week.

 

I have not seen a lot about the AHL but surely it would make sense for the Canadian teams to have their own AHL divisison aswell and keep their guys in Canada?

 

Main team and reserves playing each other on the same schedule?

[travel_dude]

7 minutes ago, rocketdoctor said:

Lots of potential to manipulate the cap with the taxi squad rules.

 

The Athletic carried an article on it last week.

 

I have not seen a lot about the AHL but surely it would make sense for the Canadian teams to have their own AHL divisison aswell and keep their guys in Canada?

 

Main team and reserves playing each other on the same schedule?

 

This came out awhile ago, but the Alberta teams said that they can't afford to have the teams based in Canada.

The whole concept of the taxi squad was to alleviate the border issues that the Canadian teams face.

It benefits the US teams as well, but only as a quicker turnaround for players from the AHL.

The cap hit is the same as a buried player in the AHL.

Waivers still required, though the length may be longer than the usual 30 days (did not see that rule clarified).

 

I'm iinterested to see of they sign Ritchie.  While he's not a great player, he's at least a depth winger.

As nice as it would be to have Gawdin or Phillips available to play, it only makes sense if they play 50% of the games they are on the taxi squad for.

I don't want to see Stone or Rinaldo play games this season.

Even Petrovich has to be questionable.

He was not great in EDM.

 

[cross16]

9 hours ago, JTech780 said:

Just thinking out loud here, but I can see a situation where the team would carry 2 goalies on the taxi squad. In the off chance one of the goalies tests positive for Covid there is a solid chance that both starting goalies could be out of action as they train and practice very closely. So say we lose two goalies to Covid, we would only have 1 goalie left and a goalie from Stockton would take two weeks to get to Calgary.

 

If it were me I would be carrying two goalies on the taxi squad just in case. This is going to be a weird season.

 

 

I agree, this is a smart approach. I would look at the NFL where 1 positive case, and in sometimes even a false positive, led to teams having to play their 4th/5th player on the depth chart due to contract tracing/exposure. 

 

Why even though i don't like Stone I have no problem with him being here on a PTO. It's not hard to imgine scenarios where you might be into your 10th dman or 19th forward so if you can get some veteran players for those options it's smart to do so. 

[JTech780]

I like the Mangiapane-Backlund-Bennett line, that's a line that will be hard to play against and will always be on the puck.

 

Not surprised to see Giordano and Tanev paired together.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

I like the Mangiapane-Backlund-Bennett line, that's a line that will be hard to play against and will always be on the puck.

 

Not surprised to see Giordano and Tanev paired together.

 

Nice to see Giordano - Tanev together because that means Hanifin - Andersson will be a pair.

[cross16]

One thing to keep in mind, Ward was adamant yesterday that we should not read into into combinations or pairings. So while there are some decent ideas here I expect we are going to see a bunch of different ideas, combos, and lines the rest of the way. 

 

I'm actually disappointed to see Bennett on the wing but like I said I'll let the rest of camp play out. 

[JTech780]

I think Tkachuk/Lindholm are going to be the 1st line this year and Gaudreau/Monahan will be used in more sheltered situations.

[JTech780]

6 minutes ago, cross16 said:

One thing to keep in mind, Ward was adamant yesterday that we should not read into into combinations or pairings. So while there are some decent ideas here I expect we are going to see a bunch of different ideas, combos, and lines the rest of the way. 

 

I'm actually disappointed to see Bennett on the wing but like I said I'll let the rest of camp play out. 

 

I agree, but with only 9 days left till the season starts how much playing around can they do.

[cross16]

4 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

I agree, but with only 9 days left till the season starts how much playing around can they do.

 

I would hope a lot. 

 

the pairs he is running out all have familiarity together so I don't think there should be any concern with building chemistry and with no preseason I don't think you'll build much chemistry anyway. They should be experimenting a ton IMO. 

[travel_dude]

18 hours ago, cross16 said:

One thing to keep in mind, Ward was adamant yesterday that we should not read into into combinations or pairings. So while there are some decent ideas here I expect we are going to see a bunch of different ideas, combos, and lines the rest of the way. 

 

I'm actually disappointed to see Bennett on the wing but like I said I'll let the rest of camp play out. 

 

I don't like the idea of Bennett on RW at all.  Has he ever had any success there?  Maybe he's not ready for C 100% of the time, but at least put him in a spot he is comforatble in.  I also think they really need to look at a ton of combos for lines.  They should also be trying out pairs other than the typical ones.  Valimaki on RD, paired with Ras, paired with Gio.  Try things out so you are ready when the need arises.

[robrob74]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I don't like the idea of Bennett on RW at all.  Has he ever had any success there?  Maybe he's not ready for C 100% of the time, but at least put him in a spot he is comforatble in.  I also think they really need to look at a ton of combos for lines.  They should also be trying out pairs other than the typical ones.  Valimaki on RD, paired with Ras, paired with Gio.  Try things out so you are ready when the need arises.

 

I agree! 

 

Plus, the moment that Sam Bennett actually has success they decide to change things for him. When have they ever done that to any other player on the Flames who has had success with another player? 

 

Monahan with Gaudreau. Despite their misgivings they keep them together. 

Tkachuk and Backlund. Despite Bennett having success with the Backlund they moved Tkachuk onto the line. Why not have both with Backs back then? Backlund could have continued to mentor Sammy until he matured into the 3rd line C. 

Lucic and Ryan. Despite Lucic having some success with Sammy they switch it up back to the tried and true. To move the team forward, they need some changes, but I don't think moving Bennett to RW or back to wing at all is the answer.

You can even add Mangiapane to that group. Some will claim that he has done more with less than Bennett, but Mangiapane has had consistent mentorship from Ryan and Backlund. They stuck with him in those positions and didn't really jump him up and down the line up. Dube has been up and down, but at the same time, he has pretty much stuck with good players. I think it's more the fact that Bennett hasn't been placed with quality players on a consistent basis since he played with Backlund, which he proved he could have success in that situation as an 18/19/20 year old. I would ask, who's better to play with on a consistent basis, Ryan or Jankowski/Brouwer, etc? I think I'd rather our player have the mentorship of Ryan over Brouwer, or playing with Jankowski. 

 

The Flames have ruined their 4th overall pick. I get it, Bennett hasn't done anything to prove he deserves more, but he also wasn't given the chances other players were given. I know we've talked about it to death, but I just feel that if they have given him extended minutes and real opportunities to succeed, he would have. Lindholm said something along these lines last year, "if you're going to put me at C, leave me there for awhile to give me a chance to get used to it." And I think that that is what killed Bennett's development, not sticking to something for a long extended period, and not given a true role. I think they should just trade the kid at the TDL as he will probably be worth a 1st rounder or more at that time of the season. Maybe a 1st and a later rounder pick? He is Mr. Playoffs afterall. Plus I think another team will actually get more out of him and use him properly and Flames fans will cry St.Louis on him. Not to say he's going to be a 100 point guy... But I just think he can be a 2nd line C and someone you can win with when it matters most. 

 

This team is madness! 

 

While I do agree there needs to be change. But I think at least a few are happening in the wrong places in the lineup. 

I don't believe Monahan and Gaudreau are a pair that will lead to success. We need all lines to succeed at 5v5. The Canucks almost won a cup by being nearly only a PP team, but the Flames PP is still only 10-15th best in the league. That's not a cup winner. I say split them up so they can have more success on 5v5, then put them together on the PP. Plus I think they need to start spreading the talent by placing some on the 2nd unit to give a better threat when the other team's 2nd teir pk's are killing. Just my few cents. 

[sak22]

Nothing set in stone, team should be trying as many combos as they can.  I miss the discussions from when the board was down, but the sky is falling after day 1 is still tough to read.   They will need to gain familiarity in a short period, this team has essentially had 2 4 month breaks in the past 10 months, add in several new faces.  If it means trying guys in different positions or off-wing so be it, so little time before games start to matter, and with 56 games they might not be able afford having their typical October to start the season.

[cross16]

2 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

I agree! 

 

Plus, the moment that Sam Bennett actually has success they decide to change things for him. When have they ever done that to any other player on the Flames who has had success with another player? 

 

Monahan with Gaudreau. Despite their misgivings they keep them together. 

Tkachuk and Backlund. Despite Bennett having success with the Backlund they moved Tkachuk onto the line. Why not have both with Backs back then? Backlund could have continued to mentor Sammy until he matured into the 3rd line C. 

Lucic and Ryan. Despite Lucic having some success with Sammy they switch it up back to the tried and true. To move the team forward, they need some changes, but I don't think moving Bennett to RW or back to wing at all is the answer.

You can even add Mangiapane to that group. Some will claim that he has done more with less than Bennett, but Mangiapane has had consistent mentorship from Ryan and Backlund. They stuck with him in those positions and didn't really jump him up and down the line up. Dube has been up and down, but at the same time, he has pretty much stuck with good players. I think it's more the fact that Bennett hasn't been placed with quality players on a consistent basis since he played with Backlund, which he proved he could have success in that situation as an 18/19/20 year old. I would ask, who's better to play with on a consistent basis, Ryan or Jankowski/Brouwer, etc? I think I'd rather our player have the mentorship of Ryan over Brouwer, or playing with Jankowski. 

 

The Flames have ruined their 4th overall pick. I get it, Bennett hasn't done anything to prove he deserves more, but he also wasn't given the chances other players were given. I know we've talked about it to death, but I just feel that if they have given him extended minutes and real opportunities to succeed, he would have. Lindholm said something along these lines last year, "if you're going to put me at C, leave me there for awhile to give me a chance to get used to it." And I think that that is what killed Bennett's development, not sticking to something for a long extended period, and not given a true role. I think they should just trade the kid at the TDL as he will probably be worth a 1st rounder or more at that time of the season. Maybe a 1st and a later rounder pick? He is Mr. Playoffs afterall. Plus I think another team will actually get more out of him and use him properly and Flames fans will cry St.Louis on him. Not to say he's going to be a 100 point guy... But I just think he can be a 2nd line C and someone you can win with when it matters most. 

 

This team is madness! 

 

While I do agree there needs to be change. But I think at least a few are happening in the wrong places in the lineup. 

I don't believe Monahan and Gaudreau are a pair that will lead to success. We need all lines to succeed at 5v5. The Canucks almost won a cup by being nearly only a PP team, but the Flames PP is still only 10-15th best in the league. That's not a cup winner. I say split them up so they can have more success on 5v5, then put them together on the PP. Plus I think they need to start spreading the talent by placing some on the 2nd unit to give a better threat when the other team's 2nd teir pk's are killing. Just my few cents. 

 

umm what? since when is making the 2nd round "almost" winning the cup? 

 

And your critique is a bit bizarre considering the Flames actually had the more effective PP in the playoffs (they were 3rd best).

 

I would also agree that getting upset by line combos on day 1 of training camp is very over the top. 

[cross16]

 

 

Very interesting. 

 

I actually think putting Rasmus in Johnny's old post (LS half wall) could be a killer spot to set up 1 timers but mostly just happy it looks like Ras will get more opportunity. Also happy they have flipped the LS/RS and have Johnny on the right side wall. 

 

They also need to find a new QB for the #1 unit so makes sense they may try a few guys. It's not a good spot for Gio anymore IMO. 

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

I agree! 

 

Plus, the moment that Sam Bennett actually has success they decide to change things for him. When have they ever done that to any other player on the Flames who has had success with another player? 

 

Monahan with Gaudreau. Despite their misgivings they keep them together. 

Tkachuk and Backlund. Despite Bennett having success with the Backlund they moved Tkachuk onto the line. Why not have both with Backs back then? Backlund could have continued to mentor Sammy until he matured into the 3rd line C. 

Lucic and Ryan. Despite Lucic having some success with Sammy they switch it up back to the tried and true. To move the team forward, they need some changes, but I don't think moving Bennett to RW or back to wing at all is the answer.

You can even add Mangiapane to that group. Some will claim that he has done more with less than Bennett, but Mangiapane has had consistent mentorship from Ryan and Backlund. They stuck with him in those positions and didn't really jump him up and down the line up. Dube has been up and down, but at the same time, he has pretty much stuck with good players. I think it's more the fact that Bennett hasn't been placed with quality players on a consistent basis since he played with Backlund, which he proved he could have success in that situation as an 18/19/20 year old. I would ask, who's better to play with on a consistent basis, Ryan or Jankowski/Brouwer, etc? I think I'd rather our player have the mentorship of Ryan over Brouwer, or playing with Jankowski. 

 

The Flames have ruined their 4th overall pick. I get it, Bennett hasn't done anything to prove he deserves more, but he also wasn't given the chances other players were given. I know we've talked about it to death, but I just feel that if they have given him extended minutes and real opportunities to succeed, he would have. Lindholm said something along these lines last year, "if you're going to put me at C, leave me there for awhile to give me a chance to get used to it." And I think that that is what killed Bennett's development, not sticking to something for a long extended period, and not given a true role. I think they should just trade the kid at the TDL as he will probably be worth a 1st rounder or more at that time of the season. Maybe a 1st and a later rounder pick? He is Mr. Playoffs afterall. Plus I think another team will actually get more out of him and use him properly and Flames fans will cry St.Louis on him. Not to say he's going to be a 100 point guy... But I just think he can be a 2nd line C and someone you can win with when it matters most. 

 

This team is madness! 

 

While I do agree there needs to be change. But I think at least a few are happening in the wrong places in the lineup. 

I don't believe Monahan and Gaudreau are a pair that will lead to success. We need all lines to succeed at 5v5. The Canucks almost won a cup by being nearly only a PP team, but the Flames PP is still only 10-15th best in the league. That's not a cup winner. I say split them up so they can have more success on 5v5, then put them together on the PP. Plus I think they need to start spreading the talent by placing some on the 2nd unit to give a better threat when the other team's 2nd teir pk's are killing. Just my few cents. 

 

The Johnny-Mony pair deserves criticism, but it's not like they were trash last season.

One down season from them.

Neither will drag the team into the fight, but they have been the scoring leaders for years.

Use them less in power vs power and try to exploit the matchups.

One thing I think they lack is the dog on the bone player.

I don't know if it would work, but Mangiapane is exactly that player.

Enough speed to get to the puck.

Shifty enough to come out with the puck.

Tkachuk does that too, but he also draws the top D matchups.

That's not what Gaudreau needs.

 

I'm interested to see if Simon or Leivo can play with them.

Neither us really top 6, but they might have the jam to retrieve pucks.

 

I saw where Ras was practicing on the PP with Tkachuk, Lindy, Monahan, Gaudreau.

If he can get back to his junior confidence in QB'ing the PP, then we may have something.

Please try out Mangiapane on the PP.

He's been so efficient a scorer 5v5 that he may be a good choice.

 

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

umm what? since when is making the 2nd round "almost" winning the cup? 

 

And your critique is a bit bizarre considering the Flames actually had the more effective PP in the playoffs (they were 3rd best).

 

I would also agree that getting upset by line combos on day 1 of training camp is very over the top. 

 

 

Oh, I should have mentioned that it was the 2011 playoff year. LOL But then again, 3rd best PP also got them knocked out in the first round. I was just saying the PP can only get a team so far, it helps to have a good one, but it doesn't always mean they'd win by only having a good PP. And I was referring to the season prior to the break. 

 

It seems like the coaching isn't putting much stock into the play-in or playoffs as it was an aboration and not the norm. So a 3rd in the league PP could be just due to the circumstances of the year and the break. In the end, it still amounted to a loss in game 6 of the first round, and so did Bennett centering the 3rd line. 

 

I am just saying I am still disappointed that they're still not using him where he showed the most promise. I get it, it's early. The lines will change. They say they're going to change, but they've said that before, many times, and have gone back to what worked, or didn't work for that matter, as the team hasn't taken a next step with those combos. 

[robrob74]

59 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

The Johnny-Mony pair deserves criticism, but it's not like they were trash last season.

One down season from them.

Neither will drag the team into the fight, but they have been the scoring leaders for years.

Use them less in power vs power and try to exploit the matchups.

One thing I think they lack is the dog on the bone player.

I don't know if it would work, but Mangiapane is exactly that player.

Enough speed to get to the puck.

Shifty enough to come out with the puck.

Tkachuk does that too, but he also draws the top D matchups.

That's not what Gaudreau needs.

 

I'm interested to see if Simon or Leivo can play with them.

Neither us really top 6, but they might have the jam to retrieve pucks.

 

I saw where Ras was practicing on the PP with Tkachuk, Lindy, Monahan, Gaudreau.

If he can get back to his junior confidence in QB'ing the PP, then we may have something.

Please try out Mangiapane on the PP.

He's been so efficient a scorer 5v5 that he may be a good choice.

 

 

 

well, it was more than one down season for them. It has been since the All-Star Break of the good year that they've not up to their usual selves. I'd say it wasn't trash, but it wasn't good either, not for their standards, or if they want them this team to take a step. They need to be at their best or at the very least, good, in order for the Flames to win a round or three. I think they have gotten by on their good skill, and they will put up points just by being that skillful. But to me it doesn't mean they've played well. It just means that they capitalized on a chance, which with their skill that will happen. 

 

I agree, it could be the dog on the bone player. The problem has been that players who play that style stop playing that way when they're put on that line. Perhaps Mangiapane is a guy that would benefit playing with them as he hasn't changed his style of play. Only problem is putting Johnny on the RW. I don't think it really matters what D matchups Johnny will have as long as he has guys he can get the puck to and do something with it. He'll always have the tougher matchups as he's the most skilled. I think the biggest problem has been doing the exact same thing with it, over and over. It's easy to stop in the NHL. But having a guy like Tkachuk who's good with the puck, good vision, is in the right spots, is what he could need? But I also like Tkachuk with Lindholm and spreading things out. 

 

It's a short camp so there isn't a lot of time. 

 

Mang definitely deserves 2nd PP unit time. 

I think they got Nordstrom to eleviate the PKers like Lindholm. 

[sak22]

44 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

Oh, I should have mentioned that it was the 2011 playoff year. LOL But then again, 3rd best PP also got them knocked out in the first round. I was just saying the PP can only get a team so far, it helps to have a good one, but it doesn't always mean they'd win by only having a good PP. And I was referring to the season prior to the break. 

 

It seems like the coaching isn't putting much stock into the play-in or playoffs as it was an aboration and not the norm. So a 3rd in the league PP could be just due to the circumstances of the year and the break. In the end, it still amounted to a loss in game 6 of the first round, and so did Bennett centering the 3rd line. 

 

I am just saying I am still disappointed that they're still not using him where he showed the most promise. I get it, it's early. The lines will change. They say they're going to change, but they've said that before, many times, and have gone back to what worked, or didn't work for that matter, as the team hasn't taken a next step with those combos. 

That year they still had the fewest goals allowed, and were 6th in 5 on 5 goals.  They had a PP that contributed great, but I wouldn't call them a team that rode a PP to almost winning the cup, pretty good team overall.  Massive difference between the 2011 Canucks and the 2020 Oilers. 

[robrob74]

15 minutes ago, sak22 said:

That year they still had the fewest goals allowed, and were 6th in 5 on 5 goals.  They had a PP that contributed great, but I wouldn't call them a team that rode a PP to almost winning the cup, pretty good team overall.  Massive difference between the 2011 Canucks and the 2020 Oilers. 

 

Definitely, They were a fairly complete team. I was so worried that they'd win it that year. I don't know how close to complete that the Flames are. And getting the lines right is definitely the work in progress this week. I just think there needs to be some shake-up. We hear a lot of the same things over and over. "They're not happy with how the playoffs ended." "There needs to be a shake-up/changes." There were some changes, but does Tanev change enough? Markstrom could be the biggest difference maker, if they can withstand pressure. How much better or worse is Tanev than Brodie? And, how does Valamaki help change the quality of the 3rd pair? He will either be 2nd or 3rd pair, thus playing or pushing someone in the 2nd pair to the 3rd pair. Or should we be comparing Valamaki and Brodie? I don't count Hamonic in the comparisons as he was not really a factor in the end last year. Plus, Gustuffson and Forbort were going to be just place holders for the end of the year... Valimaki takes one of their spots, and Nestorov/Kylington fight for #6. So the Flames could be slightly better on D over last year, or slightly worse. It depends on whether Valimaki and Tanev can stay healthy. 

 

The forward pairs are interesting, but does it make the team better to play:

 

Tkachuk, Lindholm, XXX

Gaudreau, Monahan, XXX

Mangiapane, Backlund, XXX

Lucic, Ryan, XXX 

 

It seems like that's the way they want to play it. How different will it be, and have the depth additions been good enough to push us forward? I wonder what they look like today... As pairs it seems like a fairly deep team and could be better balanced. I just hope Monahan and Gaudreau can get better at 5v5... Then we will have something!