Calgary Flames 20/21 Roster and Lines

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ya Gaudreau had the chances to score at least 10 more goals this season.  He needs to change it up on the breakaways.

 

I know playoffs is a different beast.  It's almost impossible to get breakaways in the playoffs.  It's the regular season where we catch teams napping and going through the motions.  In the playoffs, teams design game plans around stopping the other team's best players.

 

I don't remember the frequency, but I thought there were examples of breakaways by Johnny in the playoffs.

The stretch pass wasn't used as much, but then again we didn't have the best D this past year for that. 

You can probably think back to the AVS series of trying to do that way too much; they were expecting it.

 

What may also have lessened it this year was that the top line faced either better D (better awareness) or defensively responsible F's.

 

18 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

i think ward did that with line 1 because they were either just ok in the regular season or hot Satoshi Nakamoto. They didn’t look good all year. Sure they started getting points but either didn’t look good doing it or almost approaching looking normal. I was always hoping that a goal might get them going or light a fire under them. 
 

Gaudreau had some shifts where he looked like the best he could be, but there weren’t many shifts like that. When he’s like that though, he can be deadly. How many games did he play like that? I would say 5 all season and maybe a few periods in the regular season. 
 

I think it’s why most of us have expected a trade to happen. 

 

I think there is a tendency for our memories to align to what our opinion was.

You get a WTF moment in a game and it shades all the play for that game.

Bottom line is the top line had some very good games and some games where they couldn't get out of their own way.

I would write off anything prior to January.

Having Backlund as a winger didn't make any sense overall.

 

Like Cross, I suspect this is a big season for the direction of the Flames.

Is Gaudreau the right person to base a top line on?

Not just whether he intends on re-signing.

If so, what are they going to do to utilize his special talent (no, not like the movie The Jerk).

Can they build on it to have a line like Kane has in CHI?

How do you minimize the negatives that come with any player?

[cross16]

22 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

ya, but he also didn’t look good in most of Ward’s games. He barely looked himself most of the season. He is able to get points and look terrible at the same time, so to me it just looks like he was closer to himself in the second half of the year. But I still don’t think so. I think he looked better than the first third, but it took the Buddy as his line mate to get going, then he went back to looking like he didn’t care again, but still got points. For me, it’s his engagement. He can get points without looking like he’s trying. I get what you’re saying, that it is easy to point to a start of a decline or downslope, but I think he only looked close to himself in a small handful of games this year. Which to me points to getting back to 80-90 points if he can re-engages. How much of that is systems? Hard to tell. It could be that he just didn’t buy in. But to me it was deeper than that, his mind was elsewhere. Even in the 2nd half and playoffs he didn’t look all there. Was it lack of confidence? 
 

for me, you can point to stats and I know you watch the games, but for me, he just didn’t look all there.  He will get points, even in bad games.

 

 

That is the narrative but i don't personally agree with it and the numbers don't support it. I thought he was very much himself and was back to his dominant self in the 2nd half of last season. I actually thought he carried it into the Winnipeg series but as that series went on and then onto Dallas, is where his game just wasn't there. 

 

But in terms of his engagement I actually thought he was really engaged in the game, he was just really ineffective. 

[cross16]

Flames want a lot of people to play center next year apparently. 

 

I say that with some sarcasm, but I also fully approve of this message. 

 

 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

Flames want a lot of people to play center next year apparently. 

 

I saw that with some sarcasm, but I also fully approve of this message. 

 

 

 

Lol maybe Ward is thinking a 3-Center formation

 

[robrob74]

10 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I don't remember the frequency, but I thought there were examples of breakaways by Johnny in the playoffs.

The stretch pass wasn't used as much, but then again we didn't have the best D this past year for that. 

You can probably think back to the AVS series of trying to do that way too much; they were expecting it.

 

What may also have lessened it this year was that the top line faced either better D (better awareness) or defensively responsible F's.

 

 

I think there is a tendency for our memories to align to what our opinion was.

You get a WTF moment in a game and it shades all the play for that game.

Bottom line is the top line had some very good games and some games where they couldn't get out of their own way.

I would write off anything prior to January.

Having Backlund as a winger didn't make any sense overall.

 

Like Cross, I suspect this is a big season for the direction of the Flames.

Is Gaudreau the right person to base a top line on?

Not just whether he intends on re-signing.

If so, what are they going to do to utilize his special talent (no, not like the movie The Jerk).

Can they build on it to have a line like Kane has in CHI?

How do you minimize the negatives that come with any player?

 

6 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

 

That is the narrative but i don't personally agree with it and the numbers don't support it. I thought he was very much himself and was back to his dominant self in the 2nd half of last season. I actually thought he carried it into the Winnipeg series but as that series went on and then onto Dallas, is where his game just wasn't there. 

 

But in terms of his engagement I actually thought he was really engaged in the game, he was just really ineffective. 

 

 

I still think my eye test of most of the season says he wasn't himself. Sure, he's the type that can go through motions and still look ok-good. To me I believe he is himself when he is dominant, and that's just not what I saw aside from a handful of games. I saw a sheepish player who couldn't get out of his head. For so long it was, can Johnny get it going, and I just don't think he actually did. He had a game here and there yes, but that isn't getting going for me. He looked like a glimpse of himself. 

 

It's like I said before, I get that the numbers don't support what I say, they just wouldn't with this kid. He can look like garbage but still get points. especially on the PP, which a lot of his points came from. Doing not a lot at 5vs5 tells me that he's not all there. But give him some extra room and he can look ok-good even when he's off. 

[LouCifer]

14 hours ago, cross16 said:

Flames want a lot of people to play center next year apparently. 

 

I saw that with some sarcasm, but I also fully approve of this message. 

 

That's really great to hear Cross.

 

By my math, it sounds like Ryan isn't playing C next season, or perhaps they're attempting to move him. I wouldn't mind seeing Ryan in the RW position with Benny and Looch if Dube is going to play higher up. In fact, having Ryan play with Benny allows them to alternate taking draws since Benny struggled there. 

[Sarasti]

2 hours ago, lou44291 said:

That's really great to hear Cross.

 

By my math, it sounds like Ryan isn't playing C next season, or perhaps they're attempting to move him. I wouldn't mind seeing Ryan in the RW position with Benny and Looch if Dube is going to play higher up. In fact, having Ryan play with Benny allows them to alternate taking draws since Benny struggled there. 

 

To add to this, Dube looked really good on RW so this could potentially have us run him in the top six instead of someone with more of a limited offensive upside like Leivo or Simon.

 

TD mentioned Kane earlier and having watched a lot of Hawks games he actually tends to play on the second line with a lesser center than Toews. Be it Anisimov for a couple seasons and Dylan Strome the last two-ish.

 

Toews tends to draw the tough matchups against the opponents top line.

 

Ours could look something like this

 

Tkachuk - Lindholm - Mangiapane

Gaudreau - Monahan - Dube

Lucic/Leivo - Backlund - Ryan/Simon

Nordstrom/Lucic - Bennett - Simon/ Ryan/Leivo

 

I'm really liking how deep our bottom 6 is looking in this scenario, Just have to hope Dube and Mangiapane continue to improve (which imo is pretty likely).

If not we still have options with Lindy being able to swap back to RW.

 

Having lots of players capable of playing C is a good problem to have.

[cross16]

4 hours ago, lou44291 said:

That's really great to hear Cross.

 

By my math, it sounds like Ryan isn't playing C next season, or perhaps they're attempting to move him. I wouldn't mind seeing Ryan in the RW position with Benny and Looch if Dube is going to play higher up. In fact, having Ryan play with Benny allows them to alternate taking draws since Benny struggled there. 

 

Ryan on the RW I would think is on the table as he's done it before in his career so it makes sense. I like the pairing idea but I do hate the idea of Bennett being limited to bottom line center and playing less than 10 mins a game. To me it's counter productive to put him back to his natural position and then bury him with no opportunity. Your basically continuing the same problem they've had since his rookie year. 

 

Baring a trade, there really is no ideal way IMO to set the lineup with Monahan-Lindholm-Backs and Bennett as all centers so something has to give. For me it's obviously that you leave Lindholm on the wing but we'll see what they come up. 

[Sarasti]

52 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Ryan on the RW I would think is on the table as he's done it before in his career so it makes sense. I like the pairing idea but I do hate the idea of Bennett being limited to bottom line center and playing less than 10 mins a game. To me it's counter productive to put him back to his natural position and then bury him with no opportunity. Your basically continuing the same problem they've had since his rookie year. 

 

Baring a trade, there really is no ideal way IMO to set the lineup with Monahan-Lindholm-Backs and Bennett as all centers so something has to give. For me it's obviously that you leave Lindholm on the wing but we'll see what they come up. 

 

I think the plan is to roll four lines more consistently and thats why Tre went out and really solidified the bottom 6.

Helps us rely less on the Monahan line to do all the scoring and the Backlund line to play defense all the time.

 

Time will tell.

 

All this said. I just want to continue to see Bennett on the PP.

[cross16]

41 minutes ago, Sarasti said:

 

I think the plan is to roll four lines more consistently and thats why Tre went out and really solidified the bottom 6.

Helps us rely less on the Monahan line to do all the scoring and the Backlund line to play defense all the time.

 

Time will tell.

 

All this said. I just want to continue to see Bennett on the PP.

 

I don't disagree with that at all, but even being really conservative with ice time. 

 

1st line - 18 mins

2nd line - 16

3rd line - 15

 

Leaves Bennett with 11 mins. It's far from horrible but it just begs the question that if they don't trust him why are they keeping him and talking him up this off-season. It's just more of the same we've seen since his rookie year which doesn't make sense to me. 

[Sarasti]

31 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I don't disagree with that at all, but even being really conservative with ice time. 

 

1st line - 18 mins

2nd line - 16

3rd line - 15

 

Leaves Bennett with 11 mins. It's far from horrible but it just begs the question that if they don't trust him why are they keeping him and talking him up this off-season. It's just more of the same we've seen since his rookie year which doesn't make sense to me. 

 

Fair point. I do believe its time to give Bennett the opportunity he hasn't been getting so far.

I just know Ward wants to really give Lindholm a fair shake at C and Backlund is way too expensive for the 4th line. Backs also cannot provide the same value at wing and im not so sure Monahan can either.

Though with Mony it might be worth a shot to potentially deploy him on the RW with Backlund and Gaudreau.

That way you have a triggerman and two guys who drive play well. This line has been tried before with the difference being Backs was the RW.

Him being a better two-way guy it might make a big difference if he's the C instead.

[Horsman1]

30 minutes ago, Sarasti said:

Tkachuk/Monahan/ Ryan

Gaudreau/Backlund/ Lindholm

Mangiapane/Bennett/ Dube

Nordstrom/Simon/ Leivo

Lucic. are pretty balanced .. I worry most about what will be our third pairing on Defense.. With Gio//Valamaki/

Tanev/Anderson.. the top 4 are pretty solid.. Then we get into ifffy with Kylington.Hanafin.. and the new guys.. nesterov/Yeltsin/Lerby/Kinnevac .and whoever else shows up at camp.. None of these guys inspire me.. As Well.. Do we have the right coaching in place for the defense which is basically a complete rebuild

 

• if they go with these lines.. all three top lines have 2 centers.. a left shot and a right shot and all 6 centers have lots of opportunities for ice time
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Fair point. I do believe its time to give Bennett the opportunity he hasn't been getting so far.

I just know Ward wants to really give Lindholm a fair shake at C and Backlund is way too expensive for the 4th line. Backs also cannot provide the same value at wing and im not so sure Monahan can either.

Though with Mony it might be worth a shot to potentially deploy him on the RW with Backlund and Gaudreau.

That way you have a triggerman and two guys who drive play well. This line has been tried before with the difference being Backs was the RW.

Him being a better two-way guy it might make a big difference if he's the C instead.

 

[ABC923]

Maybe the plan is to try Mony on the wing.  Everyone else has had a shot there, and we already know Backlund on the wing is a disaster.  What about Monahan-Bennett-Dube? Two guys willing to muck it up in the corners and retrieve pucks, one to be the trigger man.  

[Horsman1]

15 minutes ago, ABC923 said:

Maybe the plan is to try Mony on the wing.  Everyone else has had a shot there, and we already know Backlund on the wing is a disaster.  What about Monahan-Bennett-Dube? Two guys willing to muck it up in the corners and retrieve pucks, one to be the trigger man.  

i'm assuming you're including Monahan as one of your so-called mucking wingers?? In five years.. i've yet to see Monahan to any kind of corner mucking

 

[travel_dude]

8 hours ago, Sarasti said:

 

To add to this, Dube looked really good on RW so this could potentially have us run him in the top six instead of someone with more of a limited offensive upside like Leivo or Simon.

 

TD mentioned Kane earlier and having watched a lot of Hawks games he actually tends to play on the second line with a lesser center than Toews. Be it Anisimov for a couple seasons and Dylan Strome the last two-ish.

 

Toews tends to draw the tough matchups against the opponents top line.

 

Ours could look something like this

 

Tkachuk - Lindholm - Mangiapane

Gaudreau - Monahan - Dube

Lucic/Leivo - Backlund - Ryan/Simon

Nordstrom/Lucic - Bennett - Simon/ Ryan/Leivo

 

I'm really liking how deep our bottom 6 is looking in this scenario, Just have to hope Dube and Mangiapane continue to improve (which imo is pretty likely).

If not we still have options with Lindy being able to swap back to RW.

 

Having lots of players capable of playing C is a good problem to have.

 

Unless something else major happens, I see Bennett as the 3rd line C.

I don't know how that impacts wanting to use Lindholm at C, other than he could be a C/RW on Bennett's line.

Use Lindholm the same way they did on the top line - strong side draws.

 

I guess it all depends on how players look at main camp.

Lucic is the guy that should possibly drop to the 4th line.

That assumes they use Leivo in the top 9.

 

If you want to break up the top line but keep Lindholm as a RW, insert Leivo in his place.

Lindholm is your 2RW.

Gaudreau-Monahan-Leivo

Tkachuk-Backlund-Lindholm

Mangiapane-Bennett-Dube

Lucic-Ryan-Simon

 

Lindholm as your 3C/RW:

Gaudreau-Monahan-Leivo

Mangiapane-Backlund-Tkachuk

Dube-Bennett-Lindholm

Lucic-Ryan-Simon

 

I don't mind either of those scenarios.  The line playing the most 5v5 is the one going that night.

Lindholm is not used as a permanent C, just for strong side draws.

The 4th line is expensive, but who cares.  Play the lines that play the best.

[ABC923]

7 hours ago, Horsman1 said:

i'm assuming you're including Monahan as one of your so-called mucking wingers?? In five years.. i've yet to see Monahan to any kind of corner mucking

 

No, I meant Monahan as the trigger man with Dube and Bennett being the guys in the corners.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

13 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Unless something else major happens, I see Bennett as the 3rd line C.

I don't know how that impacts wanting to use Lindholm at C, other than he could be a C/RW on Bennett's line.

Use Lindholm the same way they did on the top line - strong side draws.

 

I guess it all depends on how players look at main camp.

Lucic is the guy that should possibly drop to the 4th line.

That assumes they use Leivo in the top 9.

 

If you want to break up the top line but keep Lindholm as a RW, insert Leivo in his place.

Lindholm is your 2RW.

Gaudreau-Monahan-Leivo

Tkachuk-Backlund-Lindholm

Mangiapane-Bennett-Dube

Lucic-Ryan-Simon

 

Lindholm as your 3C/RW:

Gaudreau-Monahan-Leivo

Mangiapane-Backlund-Tkachuk

Dube-Bennett-Lindholm

Lucic-Ryan-Simon

 

I don't mind either of those scenarios.  The line playing the most 5v5 is the one going that night.

Lindholm is not used as a permanent C, just for strong side draws.

The 4th line is expensive, but who cares.  Play the lines that play the best.

Theres no way a signed at near minimum and a career high of 19 pts player should be pushed ahead of the likes of Mangi or Dube. I understand Leivo could have a very impressive camp and the rosters do need to be filled a bit differently if/when the season starts but to do that doesnt give much hope to the young players. If anything going by the way he played in the post season I think Dube deserves a fair chance of moving up the line.

[Sobieit]

1 hour ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

Theres no way a signed at near minimum and a career high of 19 pts player should be pushed ahead of the likes of Mangi or Dube. I understand Leivo could have a very impressive camp and the rosters do need to be filled a bit differently if/when the season starts but to do that doesnt give much hope to the young players. If anything going by the way he played in the post season I think Dube deserves a fair chance of moving up the line.

I think in camp, its about trying new things.  Ultimately IMO they will be most successful with Monahan and Gaudreau together... we have Dube, Leivo, Lindholm, even maybe Tkatchuk which they haven't tried much... roll with whoever finds chemistry.... the key for me is to get Monahan and Gaudreau rolling, when they are rolling we win games... so whatever they need to do to make that happen. 

 

IMO we have 3 options:

1) Gaudreau Monahan Lindholm

    Mang Backlund Tkatchuk

    Dube Bennett Leivo

    Lucic Ryan Simon/Gawdin(or whoever you choose)

 

2) Gaudreau Monahan Dube

    Tkatchuk Bennett Lindholm

    Mang Backlund Leivo

    Lucic Ryan Simon/Gawdin(or whoever you choose)

 

3) Gaudreau Monahan Leivo

    Tkatchuk Backlund Lindholm

    Mang Bennett Dube

    Lucic Ryan Simon/Gawdin(or whoever you choose)

    

Of course even then the opportunities to mix and match the middle six is great.  Maybe swap Backs and Bennett.  But again for me it comes down to how to get Gaudreau and Monahan rolling.

 

 

 

[The_People1]

So assuming Lindholm and Bennett plays Center,

 

Gaudreau - Monahan - Dube

Mangiapane - Lindholm - Tkachuk

Nordstrom - Backlund - Ryan

Lucic - Bennett - Leivo

X: Simon, Rinaldo/Gawdin

 

 

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

2 hours ago, Sobieit said:

I think in camp, its about trying new things.  Ultimately IMO they will be most successful with Monahan and Gaudreau together... we have Dube, Leivo, Lindholm, even maybe Tkatchuk which they haven't tried much... roll with whoever finds chemistry.... the key for me is to get Monahan and Gaudreau rolling, when they are rolling we win games... so whatever they need to do to make that happen. 

 

IMO we have 3 options:

1) Gaudreau Monahan Lindholm

    Mang Backlund Tkatchuk

    Dube Bennett Leivo

    Lucic Ryan Simon/Gawdin(or whoever you choose)

 

2) Gaudreau Monahan Dube

    Tkatchuk Bennett Lindholm

    Mang Backlund Leivo

    Lucic Ryan Simon/Gawdin(or whoever you choose)

 

3) Gaudreau Monahan Leivo

    Tkatchuk Backlund Lindholm

    Mang Bennett Dube

    Lucic Ryan Simon/Gawdin(or whoever you choose)

    

Of course even then the opportunities to mix and match the middle six is great.  Maybe swap Backs and Bennett.  But again for me it comes down to how to get Gaudreau and Monahan rolling.

 

 

 

I have no issue with even splitting up Johnny/Mony but Mony needs someone for zone entries and as a set up man and Johnny needs a shooter/finisher. Johnny also needs someone who can trailer him for his breakaway rebounds when he inevitably shoots it into the goalies pads.

 

[travel_dude]

9 hours ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

Theres no way a signed at near minimum and a career high of 19 pts player should be pushed ahead of the likes of Mangi or Dube. I understand Leivo could have a very impressive camp and the rosters do need to be filled a bit differently if/when the season starts but to do that doesnt give much hope to the young players. If anything going by the way he played in the post season I think Dube deserves a fair chance of moving up the line.

 

Leivo played 36 games last year and was close to 0.5 p/gp.

The most games he has played in one season is 49 games.

Dube has played all of 70 NHL games in 2 seasons.

 

I gave three options if you kept the top 3c's as being Monahan, Backlund and Bennett.  One of them was with Leivo on the top line.

I get what you are saying., but Mangiapane plays LW, so you would need to move Gaudreau to RW.  Do you want to do that?

Dube is on a similar dollar amount deal to Leivo.

To me it's about balance and what looks best performance-wise.

Leivo is a RHS.

Dube played the off-wing with Bennett and did quite well, for part of the season and playoffs.

If Dube isn't ready for top line, why move him there.  I don't know if he is ready.

 

[Horsman1]

On 11/19/2020 at 9:08 PM, ABC923 said:

No, I meant Monahan as the trigger man with Dube and Bennett being the guys in the corners.

Dube is one of those players we have that are from The Lollypop Gang... nor really a corner  mucker

 

[Thebrewcrew]

These would be my lines to start the season

 

Tkachuk-Backlund-Lindholm

This is your 1, or 1A, or 1B line. Call it what you want, I have them listed as the 1st line, because they will be tasked with going head to head with the best the opposition has to offer. 

Gaudreau-Monahan-Leivo

I want this line sheltered more than it was in the playoffs. I think Leivo could have similar results to Ferland on this line. Bigger body, can skate can retrieve pucks in corners. 

Dube-Bennett-Mangiapane

I'd really like this line. Three guys that are tenacious and could be rather difficult to play against. Maybe a line like this could bring a consistent effort out of Bennett. 

Lucic-Ryan-Simon/Nordstrom

Ryan and Lucic had some chemistry last season. There could be a temptation to go with Lucic-Bennett-Dube, but I'd rather push Lucic down the lineup in the regular season. Postseason is a different debate. 

 

Giordano-Tanev

It very well could be Andersson with Gio, but if Hanifin is still around, I'd want a Hanifin-Andersson pairing.

Hanifin-Andersson

Valimaki-Kylington/Nesterov

[travel_dude]

28 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

These would be my lines to start the season

 

Tkachuk-Backlund-Lindholm

This is your 1, or 1A, or 1B line. Call it what you want, I have them listed as the 1st line, because they will be tasked with going head to head with the best the opposition has to offer. 

Gaudreau-Monahan-Leivo

I want this line sheltered more than it was in the playoffs. I think Leivo could have similar results to Ferland on this line. Bigger body, can skate can retrieve pucks in corners. 

Dube-Bennett-Mangiapane

I'd really like this line. Three guys that are tenacious and could be rather difficult to play against. Maybe a line like this could bring a consistent effort out of Bennett. 

Lucic-Ryan-Simon/Nordstrom

Ryan and Lucic had some chemistry last season. There could be a temptation to go with Lucic-Bennett-Dube, but I'd rather push Lucic down the lineup in the regular season. Postseason is a different debate. 

 

Giordano-Tanev

It very well could be Andersson with Gio, but if Hanifin is still around, I'd want a Hanifin-Andersson pairing.

Hanifin-Andersson

Valimaki-Kylington/Nesterov

 

Nothing wrong with that setup.

The 3rd line I assuming that Dube plays RW and Mangiapane plays LW, since Mangiapane played there with Backlund.

It may be a bit much to expect Leivo to be able to play top 6, but I think you need to try it.

I don't know what Lucic-Ryan-Simon would look like, since Ryan is less gritty than Bennett.

He does match up RHS with Lucic though.

 

I'm concerned about Gio-Tanev, but if Tanev is playing top 4 minutes, then keep him away from Hanifin.

Hanifin-Ras should be the top pairing for minutes.

See if Hanifin can rider to it.

Valimaki is the wildcard; he could be reasy for top 4 play.

 

[ABC923]

Didn't mangiapane play mostly RW with Backlund and Tkachuk?