Calgary Flames 20/21 Roster and Lines

[redfire11]

30 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Moving Gaudreau to play with Bennett is fine, but what does that mean about Monahan?

The logical progression is to move him to the OHL line of Tkachuk and Mangiapane.

That also means Backlund moves to a 3rd line with Dube and someone else (Lucic?).

Not saying that is wrong but it disrupts 3 lines.

 

I would counter with swapping Backlund with Monahan.  Don't know if that changes the dynamics as much but is an alternative.

 

I do think that Bennett would benefit from a line with Dube on one side and a top 6 RW.

Maybe that means you play Ryan there.  Gives them a RHS at least.

 

Here's what I am saying:

Tkachuk-Monahan-Mangiapane

Gaudreau-Backlund-Lindholm   ===> These are the lines, not suggesting one is top line or 2nd line.

Dube-Bennett-Ryan

Lucic-Gawdin-Nordstrom

 

You could tinker with it a bit, depending on whether Mangiapane or Lindholm fits best.

I'm open to either.  I think we have to assume that Lucic is going to be a 4th line player.

Bennett can't play 82 games the same way as the playoffs.  

That setup could very well work.

I would like to try

Tkachuk-Monahan-Lindholm

Gaudreau-Bennett-Mangiapane

Nordstrom-Backlund-Ryan

Lucic-Gawdin-Dube

 

 

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

33 minutes ago, redfire11 said:

That setup could very well work.

I would like to try

Tkachuk-Monahan-Lindholm

Gaudreau-Bennett-Mangiapane

Nordstrom-Backlund-Ryan

Lucic-Gawdin-Dube

 

 

The way Dube played in the post season I think he deserves at least a consideration for 3rd line.  Maybe eventually he and Mangi will battle it out for 2nd.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, redfire11 said:

That setup could very well work.

I would like to try

Tkachuk-Monahan-Lindholm

Gaudreau-Bennett-Mangiapane

Nordstrom-Backlund-Ryan

Lucic-Gawdin-Dube

 

 

 

Bennett seemed like he turned a corner playing with Dube for one thing.

Giving him a capable, good skating winger to complement those two guys should be the goal.

Lucic added another dimension, but I'm not sure if that was coincidence or Lucic stepping up his game as well.

Playing Lucic on the 4th line is not an insult, if you provide extra minutes to him on the nights he is playing well.

Giving PP time is one way.

 

Has Bennett earned a look in the top 6?  For sure.

Does he replace what Backlund brings to the top 6 or what Monahan can provide for 82 games in the top 6?

Not so sure.

 

If you look at a full season, the top 6 in points was our top 6 lines.

Ryan was next.

That included playing the hardest minutes as well as PP time.

To me it comes down to what your best scoring and defensive lines look like.

If they can move Backlund or Monahan to the "3rd" line so be it.

That assumes they have the runway to do it and losses don't start adding up.

The goal should be to have 3 scoring lines, not just moving the goals from one line to another.

[redfire11]

Something has to change with our lines. Hopefully one or all our proposals will be given a shot.

Gaudreau is one of the more exciting players to watch in the league and he is slowly being stifled.

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, redfire11 said:

Something has to change with our lines. Hopefully one or all our proposals will be given a shot.

Gaudreau is one of the more exciting players to watch in the league and he is slowly being stifled.

 

I'm all over the map on what may or may not work.

Gaudreau-Backlund-Mangiapane

Gaudreau-Backlund-Lindholm

Gaudreau-Backlund-Tkachuk

 

I think either 1 or 2 is the best idea.

Mangiapane has a nose for open spots to shoot from.

He's a dog after a bone in the corners.

Lindholm complements Gaudreau, so playing him with Backlund sts up for some nice tic-tack-toe passing.

 

BY the same token, Monahan needs a change it seems.

OHL line Tkachuk-Monahan-Mangiapane

TML line Tkachuk-Monahan-Lindholm

 

I do like the idea of Dube-Bennett-Ryan.

Gives Ryan a chance to get his game back after the playoffs.

 

Lucic-Gawdin-Nordstrom

Would have to think they would excell at the forecheck.

Gawdin can score.

The RHS benefits Lucic as well.

 

[cross16]

I am of the opinion that something needs to change but I also think Gaudreau need to wear his fair share of the blame. He is the one not adjusting to how teams are playing him. He doesn't forecheck or go into corners and I think it's fair to question why after his time in the league he hasn't added more muscle mass that would make him a more effective player or forechecker. He is also the one that instead of trying to adjust in the playoffs when things get tight, he doeesn't and rather just seems to complain about refs and calls. 

 

The Flames can make changes to help him out a little, but a lot of this is on Gaudreau himself too. 

[cross16]

Another reason why I think the Flames need to give Bennett some leash and opportunities at center is the expansion draft. They need to know what they have in Bennett because he's definetly on the expansion draft radar. 

 

Baring trades, Gaudreau-Monahan-Tkachuk-Lindholm are your 4 auto protects. So that leaves you needing to pick 3 out of Mangiapange, Dube, Bennett and Backlund. if the Flames want to keep competiting in the short term then you cannot lose Backlund, and I think he would get claimed in a heartbeat, so I actually think he should be on the auto protect list. Having said that, if you can test Bennett and he lays well in the regular season it is possible to reconsider that decision but I'm also of the opinion that Backlund is the Flames best center, and for me it isn't close, so losing him creates a massive hole for a team trying to win. 

 

So if Backs is protected it's down to Mang-dube-Bennett. Off those 3 I would lean Bennett right now which is why I think it's critical the Flames see what they have and give him some rope at center. Losing playoff Bennett, and a player that I still think can be an important top 9 center for you, is very sub optimal. 

 

Of course Treliving can always swing a deal and make this all for not so perhaps it doesn't get this far but at the same time I think teams really overpaid during the last expansion draft and most that cut deals probably regret it today. 

[JTech780]

I agree about Gaudreau needing to adjust things, as funny as it may sound, I think things have come easy to him based off natural ability. Now he needs to put in the work in the weight room and the video room. I do think that for this team to be successful next year he has to be closer to the 99 point player than the player he was last year.

 

As far as Bennett goes, my biggest concern with him as a center with Gaudreau, is that he will change the way he plays and try to be more of a finesse guy instead of a north/south power forward. For him to be successful and be the same player we see in the playoffs, he needs to keep his game simple. Drive that center lane hard on offense, go to the net, crash and bang in the corners, hustle back on defense. If he gets away from that, having him play with Gaudreau doesn't work.

[JTech780]

With the signing of Dominik Simon:

 

Gaudreau-Bennett-Tkachuk

Manigiapane-Monahan-Lindholm

Dube-Backlund-Simon

Lucic-Ryan-Nordstrom

Gawdin

 

 

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

7 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

With the signing of Dominik Simon:

 

Gaudreau-Bennett-Tkachuk

Manigiapane-Monahan-Lindholm

Dube-Backlund-Simon

Lucic-Ryan-Nordstrom

Gawdin

 

 

Looking at Simons #s may as well keep him as a 7th and give Gawdin a shot. Doesn't seem like much was gained with that signing other than an extra body just in case.

[JTech780]

3 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

Looking at Simons #s may as well keep him as a 7th and give Gawdin a shot. Doesn't seem like much was gained with that signing other than an extra body just in case.

His 5v5 P/60 was 1.47, that is ahead of what Monahan did last year 1.41. Simon is really solid defensively, and has enough skill to play in the top 9. Now if Gawdin comes in and wins a spot, that would be awesome, but I wouldn't be gifting him a spot. Gawdin has shown some promise but he does have some limitations to his game. I could see a situation where Gawdin, Nordstrom and Simon all rotate through the lineup. With the schedule being compressed as it is rumored to be next year, the 13th forward and 7th defenseman are going to get more playing time than usual.

[cross16]

I understand dangling the carrot and I agree with it but I think you have to weight that with what position is going to make that player successful and what's better in the long run. Is Gawdin a fit in a 4th line role (I have my doubts) and second is he going to get better playing the 4th line? I like having anyone play with Derek Ryan but I for sure have questions about how playing 5-8 mins a night is going to help a player like Gawdin succeed in the NHL.

 

And at the end of the day this is a league minimum contract well under the threshold for pure cap relief. Spots can still easily be won. 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

His 5v5 P/60 was 1.47, that is ahead of what Monahan did last year 1.41. Simon is really solid defensively, and has enough skill to play in the top 9. Now if Gawdin comes in and wins a spot, that would be awesome, but I wouldn't be gifting him a spot. Gawdin has shown some promise but he does have some limitations to his game. I could see a situation where Gawdin, Nordstrom and Simon all rotate through the lineup. With the schedule being compressed as it is rumored to be next year, the 13th forward and 7th defenseman are going to get more playing time than usual.

 

57 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I understand dangling the carrot and I agree with it but I think you have to weight that with what position is going to make that player successful and what's better in the long run. Is Gawdin a fit in a 4th line role (I have my doubts) and second is he going to get better playing the 4th line? I like having anyone play with Derek Ryan but I for sure have questions about how playing 5-8 mins a night is going to help a player like Gawdin succeed in the NHL.

 

And at the end of the day this is a league minimum contract well under the threshold for pure cap relief. Spots can still easily be won. 

 

 

I think Simon was a smart signing.

Not as keen on Nordy.

I'm really trying to figure out if this is a replacement situation or just a smart signing and figure out the rank later.

Replacement, because BT may opt to go with a cheaper #4C.

Or cut costs by dealing Hanifin for a forward or cheaper D.

 

I think the coach was very impressed with Gawdin before the return to play started.

He may have a spot in mind for him.

For instance it may make sense to have the bottom 6 consisting of:

Dube-Bennett-Gawdin

Lucic-Ryan-Simon/Nordstrom

 

Gawdin is likely more suited for a 3rd line role than a 4th line.

The 4th line (as drawn out above) is a line you don't worry about facing good lines.

They hold their own and score on transition.

Some would be capable of playing 3rd or higher depending on need.

 

Could be 100% wrong on this and it's just is best players play.

Baring any other UFA signings, we have 12F signed and 5D.

Kylington wouldn't chew up much, but we are still 1d and 2F short. 

That with just $2.5m remaining for Kylington and 3 other people. 

[Thebrewcrew]

Couple signings later. Here's my lines

 

Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm

Tkachuk-Backlund-Mangiapane

Dube-Bennett-Leivo

Lucic-Ryan-Simon/Nordstrom

 

Giordano-Tanev

Hanifin-Andersson

Valimaki-Nesterov

Markstrom

Rittich

 

Extras

Kylington(signs at 787.5)

The other of Simon or Nordstrom

 

That gives you 223k in cap space. 

 

[rocketdoctor]

Darren Haynes has a interesting take on the lines.

 

Worth a read.

 

http://www.flamesfrom80feet.ca/2020/10/but-what-if-flames-core-has-changed-and.html

 

 

[redfire11]

3 hours ago, rocketdoctor said:

Darren Haynes has a interesting take on the lines.

 

Worth a read.

 

http://www.flamesfrom80feet.ca/2020/10/but-what-if-flames-core-has-changed-and.html

 

 

Good read and changes things up a bit (I like it).

I especially like the Hannifin/ Andersson pairing. I really think we will start seeing positive improvement from Hannifin pared with Andersson.

[The_People1]

5 hours ago, rocketdoctor said:

Darren Haynes has a interesting take on the lines.

 

Worth a read.

 

http://www.flamesfrom80feet.ca/2020/10/but-what-if-flames-core-has-changed-and.html

 

 

 

The D pairings are bang on what I would have it.  

[Ward54]

10 hours ago, rocketdoctor said:

Darren Haynes has a interesting take on the lines.

 

Worth a read.

 

http://www.flamesfrom80feet.ca/2020/10/but-what-if-flames-core-has-changed-and.html

 

 

Great article. Thanks for posting.

 

 

[cross16]

I don’t agree with his conclusions and I don’t think there was a combination that I liked but I fully agree with his premise. 
 

something has to change and the Flames coaching staff needs to be willing to embrace that. There should be a lot of experimenting coming training camp 

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, cross16 said:

I don’t agree with his conclusions and I don’t think there was a combination that I liked but I fully agree with his premise. 
 

something has to change and the Flames coaching staff needs to be willing to embrace that. There should be a lot of experimenting coming training camp 

 

For sure there are more options available for the bottom 6, but I wonder how much experimentation will happen with the top 6.

One thing I know is certain, Lindholm is our best RW, followed by Mangiapane or Tkachuk (depends on how that 3M line is actually played).

An all OHL line and Gaudreau-Backlund-Lindholm would be interesting.

There is no burying of one of those two lines though.

Ignoring the PP, they probably play the most minutes.

 

Going to the bottom 6, you have 2 capable C's (Bennett, Ryan) and one potential RHS C(Gawdin).

You have loads of options for wingers (Dube, Lucic, Ryan, Nordstrom, Simon, Leivo, Gawdin).

As good as Bennett's line was in the playoffs, it was as much a factor of playoff game style as progression.

Now Ward has 6 wingers that could be 3rd or 4th line.

 

As far as D, he is right that something has to change.

Top RD playing with top LD.

Valimaki is developing into that top LD category.

By the time camp arrives he could be the best one we have.

Where I have the most trouble is determining the best fit for Tanev in 5v5.

Pairing him with Gio seems like a slow skating pair.

Nesterov seems like a good offensive D that isn't really a good puck mover.

Maybe him and Valimaki provides that balance.

 

PP usage - Nesterov, Valimaki, Ras and Hanifin (if another D out there).

PK usage - Tanev, Gio, Ras, Nesterov, Valimaki.

 

The top minutes for D should be in this order - Ras, Hanifin, Valimaki, Tanev, Gio, Nesterov.

 

I will be interested if Ward falls back to his old habits.

Playing Gio more because of being the captain.

Leaning towards current top lines without any changes.

PP has Gio is one of the two configurations.   

[robrob74]

http://The Big Show: Should the Flames split up Gaudreau and Monahan?

 

talking about splitting up JG and SM. I with Will Nault (I think) both Strindberg and  Cline  didn’t agree and felt fhat if you split them up they might just drag other lines down. I can’t see how that’s the case. Say you throw JG with Tkachuk, I feel like JG or SM need to be dragged into the fray. I don’t think JG needs to be shut down as often as he is. Coaches could help by actually coaching him to do different things or using different players to change it up. 
 

they say they’re better together and have been Satoshi Nakamoto apart. But I also don’t think theFlames have ever tried them with many different options. 
 

they really see Lindholm as a C. That sends Bennett back to wing unless they tried SM at wing. 
 

if they continue SM and JG together, they need to trade them. Stein berg talks about 5 year stats, but they look Satoshi Nakamoto since February 2019, a season and a half. 
 

although, I feel SM sounds horrible without JG, which I feel he just isn’t a #1, especially without JG. 

I think they need to find a way to get energy into them. For me it’s possibly Benny on his line as he’s got the guts to stick up for Johnny. 
 

I just don’t think suddenly Tkachuk will be Satoshi Nakamoto with a JG on his line... I think JG can show up in the playoffs, for me it’s not having someone to make room for him. That’s player usage or lack of coaching. Why can’t a coach tell JG to make different routes or use players differently? Isn’t that what a coach is supposed to do, be the eyes from the bench to change strategy?

 

[robrob74]

Back when JG first came into the league, he had Hudler who could also carry a puck. Lindholm is probably a better all-round player, but Hudler was very Gaudreau-esque in how he could carry the puck and vision. I think it could be the coaches inability to draw up plays to open JG up, or failing to by giving JG the leeway to carry the line. It is making him ineffective. Using Lindholm abd Monahan should work, but since it hasn’t, I think JG and SM need a player to drag them into the game, or do some dirty work for them.
 

personally, I think JG would benefit from someone who can Skate with him through the neutral zone, have passing plays throughout, and then have the ability to cycle the puck and open up some ice when in the zone. From February on the game tightens up and turns into a cycle game. Scoring on the rush becomes harder to do, which is JG and SM’s game. 
 

This is how I would do it:

 

O2. Gaudreau, Bennett, Dube

O1. Tkachuk, Monahan, Mangi 

SD. Nordstrom, Backlund, Lindholm
EL. Lucic, Ryan, Leivo

 

i think Monahan has to get back to playing a real C role. I think Cross has said in the past that Monahan was trending as a solid C before only getting O-zone starts. 
 

a part of me though, wants to see what Tkachuk could do with a good line Instead of being relied to shut other teams best lines down. 

[The_People1]

How many breakaway chances did Gaudreau squander last season?  I wouldn't be exaggerating if it was literally 50.  Some games he would have 3 and not score. That and 2-on-1s wasted.

 

Are we worried about Gaudreau?  Honestly I'm not.  If he can finish even a bit better, then he's at least an 85-point player.  With some luck, he's a 100-point player.

[The_People1]

On 10/22/2020 at 9:04 AM, cross16 said:

I am of the opinion that something needs to change but I also think Gaudreau need to wear his fair share of the blame. 

 

On 10/22/2020 at 9:27 AM, JTech780 said:

I agree about Gaudreau needing to adjust things, as funny as it may sound, I think things have come easy to him based off natural ability. 

 

Agreed Gaudreau has to shoulder blame BUT he needs to make no apologies about the way he played.  He got the chances.  He just didn't finish.

 

One adjustment he has to make is stop going 5-hole on breakaways because I think goalies around the league has caught on to him.  He needs to practice shooting for the corners of the net which he rarely does.  Change it up.  He will be fine.  But yes, it's mainly his fault for putting up poor numbers.  He needs to finish on his chances.

[cross16]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

 

Agreed Gaudreau has to shoulder blame BUT he needs to make no apologies about the way he played.  He got the chances.  He just didn't finish.

 

One adjustment he has to make is stop going 5-hole on breakaways because I think goalies around the league has caught on to him.  He needs to practice shooting for the corners of the net which he rarely does.  Change it up.  He will be fine.  But yes, it's mainly his fault for putting up poor numbers.  He needs to finish on his chances.

 

There is some truth to this, his shooting % did drop a lot, but at the same time so did his ability to generate chances. Mind you they were aligned with his career norms just a step down from last year. I don't think it's as easy as just "finish". 

 

but the main concern IMO is the playoffs where his numbers plummet drastically and he was non existent in the playoffs. he does need to take most of the blame for that and I do believe he needs to change the way he plays.