2020-2021 Fantastical Offseason: You be the GM

[robrob74]

6 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

If Brodie is going to be expensive but the cap doesn't go up, then we have a problem.

We don't have a top 4 RD.

We would need to sign one in FA, which is going to cost at least as much as Brodie.

For as much as I cursed him in some games, he was a top player.

 

Sign him (without a NTC or NMC) unless there is some prize player out there that can be had for the same dollars.

If you have internal players that are better, trade him for something else we need.

The side benefit is that you can expose him and he leads the list for an expansion team.

 
 

plus i think you sign him to a deal that says he makes 6 but he won’t actually get 6, as everyone will have to get a pay cut due to revenue. Players will have to give some money back in escrow. It’s the guys with crazy bonuses that’ll make more. 
 

but it’ll still be 6m against the cap. 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

If Brodie is going to be expensive but the cap doesn't go up, then we have a problem.

We don't have a top 4 RD.

We would need to sign one in FA, which is going to cost at least as much as Brodie.

For as much as I cursed him in some games, he was a top player.

 

Sign him (without a NTC or NMC) unless there is some prize player out there that can be had for the same dollars.

If you have internal players that are better, trade him for something else we need.

The side benefit is that you can expose him and he leads the list for an expansion team.

 

He's going to want $6.5 x 5 or 6 years... Forget it.  Too much commitment.

[sak22]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

He's going to want $6.5 x 5 or 6 years... Forget it.  Too much commitment.

Who wouldn't want that?  Can he get that, I don't believe so.

[Sarasti]

I think we need to hang onto Brodie.

He makes mistakes sometimes, but when hes on his game he is honestly pretty underrated as far as importance to the team is concerned.

I agree though 6.5 is too much.

[The_People1]

3 hours ago, sak22 said:

Who wouldn't want that?  Can he get that, I don't believe so.

 

Well, I guess it depends on next year's cap and beyond.  This virus has affected league revenues so...  Maybe Brodie has to settle for the same contract he's had.

 

But all things equal, yes he can get that money.  Someone will be willing to pay.

[robrob74]

3 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Well, I guess it depends on next year's cap and beyond.  This virus has affected league revenues so...  Maybe Brodie has to settle for the same contract he's had.

 

But all things equal, yes he can get that money.  Someone will be willing to pay.

 

last week I think it was Elliott or Someone talking about the cap staying  the same. But the players have to give back the difference if revenue is below what would keep the cap the same. So if the players should be getting 60-70 million then the players have to pay back the difference. Of course those numbers are out of my Hash Rate, but it does mean they’ll lose portions of their salary. 
 

I don’t think they can really lower the cap because how is it fair to teams that budgeted on a certain number. So I think the only solution is having players having to give back a portion of their salary. 
 

it’s why Panarin wants to play in Russia or stay home in russia. He said it’s not worth it for him to play for only half of his salary or more.

 

$4 or $5mil is nothing I guess.

[Thebrewcrew]

I would have interest in Tierney/Brown from OTT and Johnsson/Kapanen from the Leafs.

 

The Leafs would seem to be the best fit given their impending cap pinch. 

 

They had interest in Janko a year ago, maybe they still do? Maybe they could use Bennett to replace UFA Clifford, certainly gives them functional toughness. Flames probably need to add a bit though. Although... I would have never..ever thought that Janko/Brodie would be enough for Kadri/Brown last year. So maybe BT can school Dubas...

 

Flames would be very deep in this scenario

Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm

Tkachuk-Backlund-Mangiapane

Johnnson-Dube-Kapanen

Lucic-Ryan-Gawdin

 

The cap in theory would work, but the Flames would need a cheaper backup.

[sak22]

18 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Well, I guess it depends on next year's cap and beyond.  This virus has affected league revenues so...  Maybe Brodie has to settle for the same contract he's had.

 

But all things equal, yes he can get that money.  Someone will be willing to pay.

Based on what.  Who are the comparables?  Pretty sure Brodie was on the table all summer with out a quality offer besides the Kadri one

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, sak22 said:

Based on what.  Who are the comparables?  Pretty sure Brodie was on the table all summer with out a quality offer besides the Kadri one

 

He's between Shattenkirk ($6.65) and Niskanen ($5.75) as recent comparables.

 

No one wants to give up a Kadri to get him when they can get him from UFA.

[sak22]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

He's between Shattenkirk ($6.65) and Niskanen ($5.75) as recent comparables.

 

No one wants to give up a Kadri to get him when they can get him from UFA.

Shattenkirk was coming off a 56 point season and was a solid PP QB, Brodie failed despite getting numerous chances to run our PP, and can basically only play at a high level with Gio.

 

If you want something bad enough you jump the gun.  

[The_People1]

38 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Shattenkirk was coming off a 56 point season and was a solid PP QB, Brodie failed despite getting numerous chances to run our PP, and can basically only play at a high level with Gio.

 

If you want something bad enough you jump the gun.  

 

Right.  Even at $5.75 though, especially on term... Let Brodie go.  Andersson us our new #1 RD.  He did well with Giordano in small samples.  We need a 2nd pair RD preferably still young and can grow with Hanifin/Valimaki.  

 

For bottom pair, Gustafson and Forbot looked decent.  Probably won't cost too much to bring them back.

[robrob74]

I honestly think. they'll freeze the Cap for a bunch of years. The amount of revenue coming would have to be in the 40M cap so you can't just be like, ok, we can only have a 40M cap with the ways the salaries and cap have boomed. 

 

It makes sense to keep it where it is for a few years, and have players pay into escrow to make give back the difference as you can't renegotiate the contracts. The Cap will recover in a few years, so it's a blip. If guys like Panarin want to go to other leagues for it, give them a ban on returning, or a fine on not fulfilling contract. Players' salaries are directly related to revenue which is why their is a cap, so they have to give back on the percentage that the league is losing. 

[travel_dude]

19 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Right.  Even at $5.75 though, especially on term... Let Brodie go.  Andersson us our new #1 RD.  He did well with Giordano in small samples.  We need a 2nd pair RD preferably still young and can grow with Hanifin/Valimaki.  

 

For bottom pair, Gustafson and Forbot looked decent.  Probably won't cost too much to bring them back.

 

I am big on Ras, and think he is close to, if not already, a top 2 D.

However, I was not as keen on playing him with Gio.

Sure, it looked good at times, but Gio is slowing down too fast for the two to play well together.

Gio needs speed on the RD side.

 

We don't really have a LD option other than Gio, so I think it makes sense to keep him with Brodie.

If Hanifin can become a top LD soon, then we have to trade him.

He doesn;t really fit well with anyone.

I really wonder if we could sign Pietrangelo, 6x10.

It would allow us to pass on Brodie.

We might even use Hanifin to get a cheaper top 4D.

We could do quite well with Gio, Pietrangelo, Hanifin (or replacement), Ras, Kylington, Forbort.

Add in one of the depth signings we had over the last few months and I think we have something.

Our PP would be deadly.

 

[robrob74]

11 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I am big on Ras, and think he is close to, if not already, a top 2 D.

However, I was not as keen on playing him with Gio.

Sure, it looked good at times, but Gio is slowing down too fast for the two to play well together.

Gio needs speed on the RD side.

 

We don't really have a LD option other than Gio, so I think it makes sense to keep him with Brodie.

If Hanifin can become a top LD soon, then we have to trade him.

He doesn;t really fit well with anyone.

I really wonder if we could sign Pietrangelo, 6x10.

It would allow us to pass on Brodie.

We might even use Hanifin to get a cheaper top 4D.

We could do quite well with Gio, Pietrangelo, Hanifin (or replacement), Ras, Kylington, Forbort.

Add in one of the depth signings we had over the last few months and I think we have something.

Our PP would be deadly.

 

 

 

are you signing him for 6m or 10m? 6 years or 10 years? 

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

21 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

are you signing him for 6m or 10m? 6 years or 10 years? 

Has to be 10 mil for 6.  He already makes $6.5, he's not taking a pay cut, and I dont think you can sign anyone for 10 years.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

Has to be 10 mil for 6.  He already makes $6.5, he's not taking a pay cut, and I dont think you can sign anyone for 10 years.

 

oh ya!!!! Hahaha forgot about the 7 year rule.

[JTech780]

I think Brodie will be looking at 3-4 year deal between $5m and $4m. With the cap staying flat or possibly decreasing there isn't going to be the big money floating around. I also look at what Gardiner got lat year as a compareable, 4 years at $4.05m.

[Thebrewcrew]

It doesn't sound like compliance buyouts will be permitted this offseason.

 

Burke was on 960 a couple weeks ago, he said the notion of CBO's was chuckled at by various people league-wide. He also mentioned that CBO's were only included in the last CBA as a throw-in to push that deal across the finish line, and apparently it was a one time thing. 

 

Burke also said that the cap will most likely be rolled-back, so players will make a percentage of their current deals, depending on how far the cap is rolled-back. There is a very real possibility ,that the players receiving a hypothetical CBO would be paid more than players actually playing for the Flames. A buyout costs the ownership 2/3 of the players remaining salary. It is expected the cap could be rolled-back 75%. Owners would hate that

 

Also the PA would fight it. Why would they want their members to lose 31 jobs and head into an extremely tough UFA market with most teams being cap-tight. 

 

 

This doesn't really hurt the Flames too much, they are in a good enough cap scenario where they can still get some work done and improve the team without uprooting the team.

 

Teams like the Oilers won't be able to do anything with less than 10 mill in cap space and a handful of roster spots to fill.

[robrob74]

42 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

I think Brodie will be looking at 3-4 year deal between $5m and $4m. With the cap staying flat or possibly decreasing there isn't going to be the big money floating around. I also look at what Gardiner got lat year as a compareable, 4 years at $4.05m.

 

Last year when the radio shows were talking about D salaries, the interviewed insiders from various cities across Canada would say that D salaries just haven't caught up to the level of highly skilled forwards yet. I am not sure if they ever will. I thought Subban's contract was outrageous! I could see him worth 6 or 7 at the time, but not 9. I don't see Brodie getting 6 or 6.5. 

 

I am like you, I see him getting closer to 4.5 - 5m though. 

[cross16]

44 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

I think Brodie will be looking at 3-4 year deal between $5m and $4m. With the cap staying flat or possibly decreasing there isn't going to be the big money floating around. I also look at what Gardiner got lat year as a compareable, 4 years at $4.05m.

 

I even wonder if he'll get that. I think in order to get that he's going to have to go to a rebuilding team that can afford that so we'll see what direction he wants to go. If he wants to win I don't think he would get a multi year offer. 

 

If the NHL commits to a flat cap for several seasons like is rumored I see free agency being completely changed and you'll have to throw comps out the window. to top that off how many owners are going to be hurting and reluctant to throw money out? I feel bad for any players who are hitting UFA for the first time in the next year or two, I don't think it will be very positive for many of them, especially the support style players like Brodie. 

[robrob74]

47 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

It doesn't sound like compliance buyouts will be permitted this offseason.

 

Burke was on 960 a couple weeks ago, he said the notion of CBO's was chuckled at by various people league-wide. He also mentioned that CBO's were only included in the last CBA as a throw-in to push that deal across the finish line, and apparently it was a one time thing. 

 

Burke also said that the cap will most likely be rolled-back, so players will make a percentage of their current deals, depending on how far the cap is rolled-back. There is a very real possibility ,that the players receiving a hypothetical CBO would be paid more than players actually playing for the Flames. A buyout costs the ownership 2/3 of the players remaining salary. It is expected the cap could be rolled-back 75%. Owners would hate that

 

Also the PA would fight it. Why would they want their members to lose 31 jobs and head into an extremely tough UFA market with most teams being cap-tight. 

 

 

This doesn't really hurt the Flames too much, they are in a good enough cap scenario where they can still get some work done and improve the team without uprooting the team.

 

Teams like the Oilers won't be able to do anything with less than 10 mill in cap space and a handful of roster spots to fill.

 

It's why I can't see them lowering the cap. How many teams are right up against it? Most of the league. If they rolled it back, all of the teams that have a cushion won't have any room left either. The only way to work through the situation is to have players making their percentage of what portion of the pie is theirs. I heard the interview too, and I think that Elliott Friedman reiterated it as well. 

 

There's just no way they can roll back the cap. 

[robrob74]

5 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I even wonder if he'll get that. I think in order to get that he's going to have to go to a rebuilding team that can afford that so we'll see what direction he wants to go. If he wants to win I don't think he would get a multi year offer. 

 

If the NHL commits to a flat cap for several seasons like is rumored I see free agency being completely changed and you'll have to throw comps out the window. to top that off how many owners are going to be hurting and reluctant to throw money out? I feel bad for any players who are hitting UFA for the first time in the next year or two, I don't think it will be very positive for many of them, especially the support style players like Brodie. 

 

 

I also think that even if they signed to a contract, I don't think they'll be able to get the full amount of the contract, and would have to send a percentage of it back to what percentage of what actual league revenue looks like. 

 

Like in Brew's post, if it takes a 75% hit, he will have to give back 75% of a 4.5M contract. 

[The_People1]

8 hours ago, JTech780 said:

I think Brodie will be looking at 3-4 year deal between $5m and $4m. With the cap staying flat or possibly decreasing there isn't going to be the big money floating around. I also look at what Gardiner got lat year as a compareable, 4 years at $4.05m.

 

Brodie > Gardiner by a lot.  Gardiner is/was never a legit top pair D.  Brodie is and has been.  

 

What do u think Tyson Barrie will get?  The Leafs wanted Brodie first before Barrie.

[travel_dude]

On 5/12/2020 at 11:28 PM, robrob74 said:

 

 

are you signing him for 6m or 10m? 6 years or 10 years? 

 

He's exactly what we are missing from the team.

Gio used to be 75-90% of him.

Signing him would give us the long term plan we don't have.

As much as I see Valimaki some day becoming a 1d, that's a long way off.

If we stayed the same players, only Ras, Kylington, and Hanifin would improve.

That's not nearly enough.

The best teams have the best D.

 

I would counteract the impact on cost elsewhere.

Eliminate every expensive contract not playing top 6.

Lucic would be problematic, but whatever.

No Bennett, Janko, Ryan.

Replacement for less than half.

No need to have anyone other than Gio, Ras, Hanifin and Kylington signed on the D.

Wouldn't need it.

 

[JTech780]

29 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Brodie > Gardiner by a lot.  Gardiner is/was never a legit top pair D.  Brodie is and has been.  

 

What do u think Tyson Barrie will get?  The Leafs wanted Brodie first before Barrie.

 

I think they are a lot closer talent wise. Gardiner gives you more offense and Brodie gives you more defense, but really they aren't that far apart. I think Gardiner suffered from being the media scapegoat in Toronto.

 

Barrie will probably get around the same $4m Mark that Brodie will get.

 

There are going to be a lot of top 4 defensemen available on the UFA market this off-season. Pietrangelo, Barrie, Schultz, Krug, Vatanen, Brodie, Ceci, Tanev, Hamonic, Dillon, Byfuglien. There won't be enough money for all of them so I think the contracts are going to be smaller and shorter for these UFA defensemen.

 

It's going be another factor that would limit a return in a Giordano trade.