2020-2021 Fantastical Offseason: You be the GM

[robrob74]

53 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

He's exactly what we are missing from the team.

Gio used to be 75-90% of him.

Signing him would give us the long term plan we don't have.

As much as I see Valimaki some day becoming a 1d, that's a long way off.

If we stayed the same players, only Ras, Kylington, and Hanifin would improve.

That's not nearly enough.

The best teams have the best D.

 

I would counteract the impact on cost elsewhere.

Eliminate every expensive contract not playing top 6.

Lucic would be problematic, but whatever.

No Bennett, Janko, Ryan.

Replacement for less than half.

No need to have anyone other than Gio, Ras, Hanifin and Kylington signed on the D.

Wouldn't need it.

 

 

 

I've been thinking the bottom6 has been way overpaid for too long as well. The hope with Bennett was he'd play into his contract, didn't happen. 

Jankowski must have felt slighted and came in a very tentative player. 

Ryan is a bit of an exception. He does a lot for a 3rd liner, and last year helped keep the Flames in 1st in the West. But again, I am like you, pay the bottom 6 less. But really, how much is a 3rd line C worth? Isn't it around 3M? Everyone on the 4th line needs to be lower than a Mil. 

[jjgallow]

I'm a month late on this but very sorry for your loss Rob

[robrob74]

4 hours ago, jjgallow said:

I'm a month late on this but very sorry for your loss Rob

 

thank you! It has been a hard time. 

[travel_dude]

On 5/14/2020 at 7:10 PM, robrob74 said:

 

 

I've been thinking the bottom6 has been way overpaid for too long as well. The hope with Bennett was he'd play into his contract, didn't happen. 

Jankowski must have felt slighted and came in a very tentative player. 

Ryan is a bit of an exception. He does a lot for a 3rd liner, and last year helped keep the Flames in 1st in the West. But again, I am like you, pay the bottom 6 less. But really, how much is a 3rd line C worth? Isn't it around 3M? Everyone on the 4th line needs to be lower than a Mil. 

 

Ryan is about what you want for a bottom 6 C,  He brings effort plus great at faceoffs.  My only complaint is his size.  He doesn't stand up well against hard checking.

If you were running a line with say Mangiapane and Dube, it would be a speedy line.  Not a lot of heavy board work, but would probably score on the rush a lot.

Maybe that's fine, but it leaves Lucic scrambling for minutes.

I suppose you could run Lucic with Backs and Chucky.

A little slow, but boy that would reek havoc with other teams.

[Thebrewcrew]

My updated ideal offseason... assuming the cap stays flat

 

Start at the draft

- Select Jack Quinn RW

His shot is legit, he would have one of the better releases on the Flames right now. He can score a variety of ways. The Flames lack pure goal scorers, aside from Monahan. For any that worry he needs someone to feed him, the Flames have two great playmakers wearing 13 and 19. One more year in junior and he will have a real shot to make the team. 

 

RFA's

- Mangiapane- Somewhere between the Kapanen and Johnsson contracts, 3.25-3.4 on a 3 or 4 year term

- Kylington- Probably a slight raise from his 730k, but not a big one

 

Trade market

Jankowski- it feels like he has no trade value, but I'm sure you could find a player that needs a change of scenery to trade him for. I posted earlier, Christian Fischer has almost identical career numbers to Janko.

Bennett- his value has really plummeted. I would take a 3rd for him, or maybe another bottom 6 forward in the same age range.

 

UFA market

The Flames have the ability to do something big in free agency. They could go after a really big fish, they could be in on Hall and Pietrangelo. Who would you rather have? I like Hall, but would rather go with Pietrangelo. At first I thought there was no chance, but upon further review this is doable... the Flames are in a good cap situation they could pay Pietro up to 9 a year if need be, without moving anyone aside from Bennett out the door. But even then... why Calgary? Well there's not many teams that could sign him without performing roster surgery... assuming of course he doesn't want to go to OTT, DET or NJ. I see DAL as the only other team that is a natural fit for Pietro, with a good team and a chance to win. I can't see him going back to the Blues, they have 22 men under contract for next year and 2 mill in space, with Vince Dunn still to lock up. 

 

The only issue with signing a big fish is you'll need a cheaper backup..

 

 

 

 

 

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

3 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

My updated ideal offseason... assuming the cap stays flat

 

Start at the draft

- Select Jack Quinn RW

His shot is legit, he would have one of the better releases on the Flames right now. He can score a variety of ways. The Flames lack pure goal scorers, aside from Monahan. For any that worry he needs someone to feed him, the Flames have two great playmakers wearing 13 and 19. One more year in junior and he will have a real shot to make the team. 

 

RFA's

- Mangiapane- Somewhere between the Kapanen and Johnsson contracts, 3.25-3.4 on a 3 or 4 year term

- Kylington- Probably a slight raise from his 730k, but not a big one

 

Trade market

Jankowski- it feels like he has no trade value, but I'm sure you could find a player that needs a change of scenery to trade him for. I posted earlier, Christian Fischer has almost identical career numbers to Janko.

Bennett- his value has really plummeted. I would take a 3rd for him, or maybe another bottom 6 forward in the same age range.

 

UFA market

The Flames have the ability to do something big in free agency. They could go after a really big fish, they could be in on Hall and Pietrangelo. Who would you rather have? I like Hall, but would rather go with Pietrangelo. At first I thought there was no chance, but upon further review this is doable... the Flames are in a good cap situation they could pay Pietro up to 9 a year if need be, without moving anyone aside from Bennett out the door. But even then... why Calgary? Well there's not many teams that could sign him without performing roster surgery... assuming of course he doesn't want to go to OTT, DET or NJ. I see DAL as the only other team that is a natural fit for Pietro, with a good team and a chance to win. I can't see him going back to the Blues, they have 22 men under contract for next year and 2 mill in space, with Vince Dunn still to lock up. 

 

The only issue with signing a big fish is you'll need a cheaper backup..

 

 

 

 

 

Jankos contract will be up in the official off-season, he'll just go to FA.

 

You will also need to address the signings/replacements for the  outgoing D-men. And if the popular opinion is Rittich needs a 1B instead of a backup. There may not be as much room as you think.

 

 

[Thebrewcrew]

1 hour ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

Jankos contract will be up in the official off-season, he'll just go to FA.

 

You will also need to address the signings/replacements for the  outgoing D-men. And if the popular opinion is Rittich needs a 1B instead of a backup. There may not be as much room as you think.

 

 

Janko will be an RFA, would imagine the Flames try to find a trade rather than non-tender and have him become UFA.

 

The Flames have too many D this season, they don't need to account for losing every single one, In this scenario your top 6 is

Giordano-Pietrangelo

Hanifin-Andersson

Valimaki-Yelesin/Kylington

Cheap #7 making league minimim.

 

 

To your point, the big issue here is the backup. You'd be able to pay in the neighborhood of 1.6 for a backup that may need to start 35+ games. That won't be easy.

 

And TBH, I doubt it's possible to sign Pietrangelo, I can see a team like DAL being his destination

[travel_dude]

5 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

My updated ideal offseason... assuming the cap stays flat

 

Start at the draft

- Select Jack Quinn RW

His shot is legit, he would have one of the better releases on the Flames right now. He can score a variety of ways. The Flames lack pure goal scorers, aside from Monahan. For any that worry he needs someone to feed him, the Flames have two great playmakers wearing 13 and 19. One more year in junior and he will have a real shot to make the team. 

 

RFA's

- Mangiapane- Somewhere between the Kapanen and Johnsson contracts, 3.25-3.4 on a 3 or 4 year term

- Kylington- Probably a slight raise from his 730k, but not a big one

 

Trade market

Jankowski- it feels like he has no trade value, but I'm sure you could find a player that needs a change of scenery to trade him for. I posted earlier, Christian Fischer has almost identical career numbers to Janko.

Bennett- his value has really plummeted. I would take a 3rd for him, or maybe another bottom 6 forward in the same age range.

 

UFA market

The Flames have the ability to do something big in free agency. They could go after a really big fish, they could be in on Hall and Pietrangelo. Who would you rather have? I like Hall, but would rather go with Pietrangelo. At first I thought there was no chance, but upon further review this is doable... the Flames are in a good cap situation they could pay Pietro up to 9 a year if need be, without moving anyone aside from Bennett out the door. But even then... why Calgary? Well there's not many teams that could sign him without performing roster surgery... assuming of course he doesn't want to go to OTT, DET or NJ. I see DAL as the only other team that is a natural fit for Pietro, with a good team and a chance to win. I can't see him going back to the Blues, they have 22 men under contract for next year and 2 mill in space, with Vince Dunn still to lock up. 

 

The only issue with signing a big fish is you'll need a cheaper backup..

 

 

 

 

 

 

I get what you are saying, though I don't think Mangiapane will get that much.  He has one good year.  Probably between Janko and Bennett.

I'm sure they will low-ball Janko just to have him qualified and decide what to do with him afterwards.

They probably would prefer if he file for arbitration to open up the buyout window.

He would get a minor raise in arbitration.

 

I admit I have lost interest in Bennett.

If he puts in a good playoff performance, then I will declare him to be a playoff built player and be happy we have him.

I think he will be punished for always taking soft penalties, so his minutes will be controlled.

 

I do however think there is a strong market for both Bennett and Janko.

Both are suited for playing in the East.

Bennett would fit in a team that doesn't take a lot of penalties.

He's penalized right now because he's a Flame.

Janko has a few tools that aren't utilized properly.

Strangely enough, he would be a good fit with Gaudreau.

He's trying way too much to distribute and that's not his strong point.

 

 Quinn is an interesting prospect, though I suspect he doesn't fall to us past VAN (NJ pick).

 

With FA, I suspect they will try to get Brodie signed to less than $5m, baring that Pietrangelo should be a target for the Flames.

I don't even car how much he wants.

Sign him and clean up the mess.

He would improve the blueline by leaps and bounds.

Scoring would not be an issue as much.

Both the PK and PP would improve.

 

Then again, I don't know if the scouts/GM share my opinion.

Or whether he would sign here.

I do know that STL will have a big problem signing him.

[Thebrewcrew]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

 Quinn is an interesting prospect, though I suspect he doesn't fall to us past VAN (NJ pick).

 

With FA, I suspect they will try to get Brodie signed to less than $5m, baring that Pietrangelo should be a target for the Flames.

I don't even car how much he wants.

Sign him and clean up the mess.

He would improve the blueline by leaps and bounds.

Scoring would not be an issue as much.

Both the PK and PP would improve.

 

Then again, I don't know if the scouts/GM share my opinion.

Or whether he would sign here.

I do know that STL will have a big problem signing him.

NJ scares me too regarding Quinn. The Devils have 4 prospects playing on the 67's, so they'd clearly have a ton of viewings on him.

 

I think like you said they need to at least try on Pietro. This isn't your Brouwer or Neal signing... this is a legitimate #1 RHD, they don't become available in UFA hardly ever. It would be expensive, but I can't see him getting Karlsson/Doughty money, although I would argue he's better than both. I also think BT is a but like Burke, we all know Burke built his cup winning Ducks with Niedermayer/Pronger/Beauchemin, I wouldn't be surprised to see BT try on Pietro, considering the assets he's spent on the likes of Hamonic and Hamilton. 

 

[travel_dude]

On 5/22/2020 at 6:38 PM, Thebrewcrew said:

NJ scares me too regarding Quinn. The Devils have 4 prospects playing on the 67's, so they'd clearly have a ton of viewings on him.

 

I think like you said they need to at least try on Pietro. This isn't your Brouwer or Neal signing... this is a legitimate #1 RHD, they don't become available in UFA hardly ever. It would be expensive, but I can't see him getting Karlsson/Doughty money, although I would argue he's better than both. I also think BT is a but like Burke, we all know Burke built his cup winning Ducks with Niedermayer/Pronger/Beauchemin, I wouldn't be surprised to see BT try on Pietro, considering the assets he's spent on the likes of Hamonic and Hamilton. 

 

 

The only thing driving down the cost would be the cap not rising.

It hurts STL's chances of re-signing him.

They barely have space to re-sign Dunn if even that.

 

What it does for us is advance the clock of moving on from Gio.

In the meantime, I think it would make our blueline tops in our division.

Could do Brodie-AP and Gio-Ras or Gio-AP and Brodie-Ras.

Either of those has superior coverage and skating.

Two monster shots from the point

[robrob74]

6 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

The only thing driving down the cost would be the cap not rising.

It hurts STL's chances of re-signing him.

They barely have space to re-sign Dunn if even that.

 

What it does for us is advance the clock of moving on from Gio.

In the meantime, I think it would make our blueline tops in our division.

Could do Brodie-AP and Gio-Ras or Gio-AP and Brodie-Ras.

Either of those has superior coverage and skating.

Two monster shots from the point

 

that sounds good, and I’d just say they should go with pairs that have someone mobile and someone who isn’t as mobile. I think it’s why Brodie and Giordano work so well. Gio and Andersson were ok, but didn’t they get burned by faster teams? 

[The_People1]

On 5/22/2020 at 6:38 PM, Thebrewcrew said:

NJ scares me too regarding Quinn. The Devils have 4 prospects playing on the 67's, so they'd clearly have a ton of viewings on him.

 

I think like you said they need to at least try on Pietro. This isn't your Brouwer or Neal signing... this is a legitimate #1 RHD, they don't become available in UFA hardly ever. It would be expensive, but I can't see him getting Karlsson/Doughty money, although I would argue he's better than both. I also think BT is a but like Burke, we all know Burke built his cup winning Ducks with Niedermayer/Pronger/Beauchemin, I wouldn't be surprised to see BT try on Pietro, considering the assets he's spent on the likes of Hamonic and Hamilton. 

 

 

We absolutely have to try on Pietrangelo.  Doesn't mean we get him but we have to try.  All this talk about the Flames trying to get Taylor Hall, who plays a position we don't need more of... doesn't make any sense.  Pietrangelo makes lots of sense. 

 

To make cap space, we should move Hanifin or even Giordano.  We good on LD.

[Thebrewcrew]

30 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

We absolutely have to try on Pietrangelo.  Doesn't mean we get him but we have to try.  All this talk about the Flames trying to get Taylor Hall, who plays a position we don't need more of... doesn't make any sense.  Pietrangelo makes lots of sense. 

 

To make cap space, we should move Hanifin or even Giordano.  We good on LD.

Knowing BT, I think he will at least try on Pietro.

 

It feels totally farfetched, but I took a look at the other teams cap situations and the teams that I came up with that could plausibly give him 8.5-9 without any huge trades are BUF, CGY, COL DAL, DET, LA, OTT. That's it. Avs won't sign him with Makar, Landeskog up soon. Doubt Pietro wants to waste his remaining prime in LA, OTT or BUF.

 

That gives you the Flames and Stars. 

[The_People1]

52 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Knowing BT, I think he will at least try on Pietro.

 

It feels totally farfetched, but I took a look at the other teams cap situations and the teams that I came up with that could plausibly give him 8.5-9 without any huge trades are BUF, CGY, COL DAL, DET, LA, OTT. That's it. Avs won't sign him with Makar, Landeskog up soon. Doubt Pietro wants to waste his remaining prime in LA, OTT or BUF.

 

That gives you the Flames and Stars. 

 

Not just that but if we lose Brodie + Hamonic, then Pietrangelo is a perfect replacement/upgrade on RD... capwise and positionally.  That's $8-mil sliding right over to Pietrangelo's deal... probably come in at around $8.5 to $9-mil x 7 years.  And you are right.  We have a chance to win right away.

[robrob74]

4 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

We absolutely have to try on Pietrangelo.  Doesn't mean we get him but we have to try.  All this talk about the Flames trying to get Taylor Hall, who plays a position we don't need more of... doesn't make any sense.  Pietrangelo makes lots of sense. 

 

To make cap space, we should move Hanifin or even Giordano.  We good on LD.

 

but we seem to only go for LW. 😂 

 

ok C too

[travel_dude]

11 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

We absolutely have to try on Pietrangelo.  Doesn't mean we get him but we have to try.  All this talk about the Flames trying to get Taylor Hall, who plays a position we don't need more of... doesn't make any sense.  Pietrangelo makes lots of sense. 

 

To make cap space, we should move Hanifin or even Giordano.  We good on LD.

 

We don't even need to do anything that creative to sign him.

Our biggest challenge is RD.

No reason that we couldn't use Valimaki-Kylington for the time being.

If Valimaki is not ready, then Poolman or Mackey could impress enough as well.

 

I have been a fan of Hall, especially his fit with Gaudreau.

Sliding Gaudreau over to RW would not impact him that much, but again it's a costly upgrade to the top line.

I just don't see the deal working out here.

Not unless you move Lucic.

Or you move on from Ryan, Bennett and Janko.

[Thebrewcrew]

 

2 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

We don't even need to do anything that creative to sign him.

Our biggest challenge is RD.

No reason that we couldn't use Valimaki-Kylington for the time being.

If Valimaki is not ready, then Poolman or Mackey could impress enough as well.

 

I have been a fan of Hall, especially his fit with Gaudreau.

Sliding Gaudreau over to RW would not impact him that much, but again it's a costly upgrade to the top line.

I just don't see the deal working out here.

Not unless you move Lucic.

Or you move on from Ryan, Bennett and Janko.

 

9 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Not just that but if we lose Brodie + Hamonic, then Pietrangelo is a perfect replacement/upgrade on RD... capwise and positionally.  That's $8-mil sliding right over to Pietrangelo's deal... probably come in at around $8.5 to $9-mil x 7 years.  And you are right.  We have a chance to win right away.

 

Exactly.. all the Flames need to do is trade Bennett, which will be easy enough and play hardball with Mangiapane again in negotiations. 

 

There will be more teams involved in Petro, just hard to guess who this far out, the Bruins were in on Tavares and they had Bergeron and Krejci down the middle

 

I don't think the Blues expect him to be back. They walked away from their last captain Backes, when he was coming off a productive season. I doubt they sign Faulk to 6.5-7 if they thought Petro would be back

 

It's just hard to see a better fit than Calgary, looking at it objectively. The Flames have the need and the cap to make it work. The Flames have some STL ties, Tkachuk and Conroy, maybe the can schmooze Petro... maybe Macinnis can help too

[travel_dude]

7 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

 

 

 

Exactly.. all the Flames need to do is trade Bennett, which will be easy enough and play hardball with Mangiapane again in negotiations. 

 

There will be more teams involved in Petro, just hard to guess who this far out, the Bruins were in on Tavares and they had Bergeron and Krejci down the middle

 

I don't think the Blues expect him to be back. They walked away from their last captain Backes, when he was coming off a productive season. I doubt they sign Faulk to 6.5-7 if they thought Petro would be back

 

It's just hard to see a better fit than Calgary, looking at it objectively. The Flames have the need and the cap to make it work. The Flames have some STL ties, Tkachuk and Conroy, maybe the can schmooze Petro... maybe Macinnis can help too

 

A Bennett trade is unfortunate, but I don't see his abilities being used properly.

Even if he has a good playoff, there is no real fit for him.

Play him at C with Lucic and Dube?

I'm not sure we need two bruisers and one playmaker.

 

[cross16]

11 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

We absolutely have to try on Pietrangelo.  Doesn't mean we get him but we have to try.  All this talk about the Flames trying to get Taylor Hall, who plays a position we don't need more of... doesn't make any sense.  Pietrangelo makes lots of sense. 

 

To make cap space, we should move Hanifin or even Giordano.  We good on LD.

 

If the idea is to keep Gaudreau then sure it makes no sense. But in the overall terms of asset management landing a player the caliber of Taylor Hall and then dealing Gaudreau for other pieces makes a great deal of sense and could be a huge win. 

 

I really like Pietrangelo as a player but I think there is zero chance he is a Flame especially if he is looking for a max term contract. As much as the fit makes sense now I would not be giving out what will likely be close to 10mill AAV on a 7 year deal. I would only be interest on him if he's willing to do less term because that contract has potential to turn into a big anchor. 

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

A Bennett trade is unfortunate, but I don't see his abilities being used properly.

Even if he has a good playoff, there is no real fit for him.

Play him at C with Lucic and Dube?

I'm not sure we need two bruisers and one playmaker.

 

 

 

Yup! Too many LW and Cs to play him up the lineup or to use him as a C. I think he'd be fine and would improve at center but they're not willing to put the time in for him to play the position. He looked good, in Bennett fashion, in a short stint there, and then tailed off after about 3 games.

 

I see a problem in that they don't even try to develop him as a penalty killer or someone to use on the PP. Even in OverTime his ability to skate through guys might actually be easier since he would only be trying to get through 1 or 2 guys instead of 3 or 4 when he goes rogue. 

 

I think the tools are there, but like you said, not being used properly. I think a lot of it has to do with Reps. He gets how many minutes per game, and if you're not getting the touches, the feel goes away, which I think is why it would have been good to play him in the AHL when he became eligible. 

 

 

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

If the idea is to keep Gaudreau then sure it makes no sense. But in the overall terms of asset management landing a player the caliber of Taylor Hall and then dealing Gaudreau for other pieces makes a great deal of sense and could be a huge win. 

 

I really like Pietrangelo as a player but I think there is zero chance he is a Flame especially if he is looking for a max term contract. As much as the fit makes sense now I would not be giving out what will likely be close to 10mill AAV on a 7 year deal. I would only be interest on him if he's willing to do less term because that contract has potential to turn into a big anchor. 

 

Would a max term at 7.75 be too high? It gives him about 4 years at 9m, then gradually lower his salary in the later years. 9x4, 7, 6, 5. It accounts for what he might actually get in his 35+ years. 

I don't even know what his speed is like. 

[robrob74]

I didn't read the article, but I saw one that is out there that Montreal would be primed for signing Pietrangelo. I think the idea is that you have to go all in on signing someone like him. It makes sense. Some teams just sign a guy like him and worry later about the cap ramifications. Look at the mess in Toronto. They have to take on injury reserves just to be able to be able to ice a team.

[The_People1]

22 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

I didn't read the article, but I saw one that is out there that Montreal would be primed for signing Pietrangelo. I think the idea is that you have to go all in on signing someone like him. It makes sense. Some teams just sign a guy like him and worry later about the cap ramifications. Look at the mess in Toronto. They have to take on injury reserves just to be able to be able to ice a team.

 

Can the Habs make it happen with Shea Weber RD making $7.8-mil-per X eternity?  It seems they should target LD and forwards.

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

If the idea is to keep Gaudreau then sure it makes no sense. But in the overall terms of asset management landing a player the caliber of Taylor Hall and then dealing Gaudreau for other pieces makes a great deal of sense and could be a huge win.

 

I'm all for trading Gaudreau as long as we land a stud C like Eichel.  Otherwise, just keep him.  Signing Hall will also cost an overpayment... Looking at $9-mil x 7-years... No thanks.

[The_People1]

3 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

 

It's just hard to see a better fit than Calgary, looking at it objectively. The Flames have the need and the cap to make it work. The Flames have some STL ties, Tkachuk and Conroy, maybe the can schmooze Petro... maybe Macinnis can help too

 

I agree but I doubt Flames are #1 on his list.  He probably wants to go to Toronto if I had to guess.  He could take less money to go back home.

 

I hope we have an inside on him and he considers us.

[JTech780]

31 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I'm all for trading Gaudreau as long as we land a stud C like Eichel.  Otherwise, just keep him.  Signing Hall will also cost an overpayment... Looking at $9-mil x 7-years... No thanks.

 

I think it will take a 7 year deal to sign him for sure, but I doubt he gets that much money. I think his value has dropped a bit here, between him not producing as much and injuries. I also think there won't be that many teams that can afford to give him an offer this offseason, so that will bring the price down. I think it will be in the $7m-8.5m range.

 

I like Pietroangelo, but he is 30 now and will be 38 by the time his next deal is over. I think he will get in the $9.5m-11m range on his next deal and in the short term that deal will be fine, but the 2nd half of the deal I am not so sure. 

 

I am not 100% sold on signing Hall, but I think he makes more sense than signing Pietrangelo. Especially when you factor in the return for Gaudreau, which I doubt would include Eichel.