Jakob Pelletier - 2019 1st round pick

[robrob74]

3 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

There should be no worries, we should be able to just trade him for a position that we need.   

 

There's nothing wrong with drafting BPA as long as you don't get emotionally attached to the prospects and refuse to deal them.   

 

Include him in a deal for a similarly aged prospect in goal, RHD, or even RHW.   For similar talent level we might have to pay a little extra.  So do that.

 

Where we get into trouble is we repeatedly find "diamonds in the rough" that are all smallish LWs, and we just go with that like they should all be on the same NHL team.

 

It's not fair to them or us.

 

i dunno! This sounds great in theory but in practice it’s a lot harder than it seems. They say this all the time, draft BPA and they are currency. The trouble is, what can we realistically get for Dube or Mangiapane? How about Phillips? Dube and Mangiapane were unproven in the NHL and even though they’ve shown to be good at every level, what could we have traded for if we traded them? 
 

for Mangiapane, before he made the NHL I would think a 4th or 5th rounder. Dube, I’d say a 2nd rounder? Would they have netted players? Maybe. 
 

if it is so easy to trade for these players, why haven’t the Flames been able to? Apparently BT is in on everything and I guess he’s not willing to give up certain players like you’ve said. But to me it’s because he wants more value for them that was probably offered. 

[jjgallow]

On 4/3/2021 at 12:23 AM, robrob74 said:

 

i dunno! This sounds great in theory but in practice it’s a lot harder than it seems. They say this all the time, draft BPA and they are currency. The trouble is, what can we realistically get for Dube or Mangiapane? How about Phillips? Dube and Mangiapane were unproven in the NHL and even though they’ve shown to be good at every level, what could we have traded for if we traded them? 
 

for Mangiapane, before he made the NHL I would think a 4th or 5th rounder. Dube, I’d say a 2nd rounder? Would they have netted players? Maybe. 
 

if it is so easy to trade for these players, why haven’t the Flames been able to? Apparently BT is in on everything and I guess he’s not willing to give up certain players like you’ve said. But to me it’s because he wants more value for them that was probably offered. 

 

Well we might not have to trade them because the obvious trade was Gaudreau a couple years ago.   Could have named any price we wanted.

 

Selling high and buying low is rarely popular but that's what real management is for.

[robrob74]

32 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Well we might not have to trade them because the obvious trade was Gaudreau a couple years ago.   Could have named any price we wanted.

 

Selling high and buying low is rarely popular but that's what real management is for.

 

i agree. The results after the all star break of 2019 season,  I would have traded him then. 

[cross16]

Strong year for Pelletier. 

 

Memorial Cup has been cancelled by QMJHL will start playoffs soon. Pelletier and Val'Dor finished as the #2 team in the league. 

 

 

[cross16]

Nice recognition for Pelletier

 

 

[travel_dude]

In the 4 games played in the Q Final, Pelletier has 1 goal and 6 assists.

In the overall playoffs this year (13 games), he has 4 goals and 18 assists.

Not bad for a "defensive" center.

[The_People1]

14 hours ago, cross16 said:

Nice recognition for Pelletier

 

 

 

Is it too late to trade Gaudreau for Mercer?

[travel_dude]

11 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Is it too late to trade Gaudreau for Mercer?

 

I would be looking for more than just a prospect for Gaudreau.

At least a Zacha + Mercer.

Monahan for Mercer is maybe something to consider.

Then we can do Gaudreau for Hischier straight up.

 

Gives NJ a top scoring line until Hughes can step up.

Shorten their timetable to compete.

 

[The_People1]

4 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I would be looking for more than just a prospect for Gaudreau.

At least a Zacha + Mercer.

Monahan for Mercer is maybe something to consider.

Then we can do Gaudreau for Hischier straight up.

 

Gives NJ a top scoring line until Hughes can step up.

Shorten their timetable to compete.

 

 

Only if we can do a sign+trade.  Otherwise, Gaudreau with 1-year remaining doesn't get us Mercer.

[travel_dude]

7 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Only if we can do a sign+trade.  Otherwise, Gaudreau with 1-year remaining doesn't get us Mercer.

 

I would think that NJ, while it's not the 1st team he would go to, is not the last team.

He's a NJ boy, coming home.

They would offer him max money to get him to sign.

Or, he becomes the top pending UFA available to a few select teams.

Yes, they would be dealing with Metro teams like Philly or NYR, but would get back what they paid or more.

 

Let me turn it around a bit.

Would you offer Gaudreau this year for 4th overall?

That sounds like a steal for NJ.

Yes, it would go a long way towards a rebuild, assuming we keep the 12th.

 

[The_People1]

37 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I would think that NJ, while it's not the 1st team he would go to, is not the last team.

He's a NJ boy, coming home.

They would offer him max money to get him to sign.

Or, he becomes the top pending UFA available to a few select teams.

Yes, they would be dealing with Metro teams like Philly or NYR, but would get back what they paid or more.

 

Let me turn it around a bit.

Would you offer Gaudreau this year for 4th overall?

That sounds like a steal for NJ.

Yes, it would go a long way towards a rebuild, assuming we keep the 12th.

 

 

1-year to UFA is simply too risky for NJ even if Gaudreau is a hometown boy.  NJ is not ready to win yet so would be happy to draft.  If we can get Gaudreau signed 8-years at a fair cap hit AND THEN move him to NJ, that gives NJ 9-years of Gaudreau.  Now we are talking.  

[travel_dude]

15 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

1-year to UFA is simply too risky for NJ even if Gaudreau is a hometown boy.  NJ is not ready to win yet so would be happy to draft.  If we can get Gaudreau signed 8-years at a fair cap hit AND THEN move him to NJ, that gives NJ 9-years of Gaudreau.  Now we are talking.  

 

NJ has waffled between competing now and building for the future.

The bought out Schneider to compete now.

They traded Palmieri and Zajac to improve for the future and avoid losing a player for nothing.

Gaudreau brings them a player that bridges between now and the future.

And he's young enough to be part of that younger group.

 

Mercer is not a guaranteed NHL player, so really it's Zacha + prospect for Gaudreau.

In 2 years, they may still only have Zacha and Hughes and Hischier.

How long does it makes sense for them to continue to build and not compete?

 

[The_People1]

4 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

NJ has waffled between competing now and building for the future.

The bought out Schneider to compete now.

They traded Palmieri and Zajac to improve for the future and avoid losing a player for nothing.

Gaudreau brings them a player that bridges between now and the future.

And he's young enough to be part of that younger group.

 

Mercer is not a guaranteed NHL player, so really it's Zacha + prospect for Gaudreau.

In 2 years, they may still only have Zacha and Hughes and Hischier.

How long does it makes sense for them to continue to build and not compete?

 

 

In two years the Flames may not have Gaudreau either.  The issue is Gaudreau's contract status.  With 1-year to UFA, he's only worth a 1st (contending team) + mid-tier prospect at the TDL.  

[travel_dude]

13 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

In two years the Flames may not have Gaudreau either.  The issue is Gaudreau's contract status.  With 1-year to UFA, he's only worth a 1st (contending team) + mid-tier prospect at the TDL.  

 

Maybe I am presuming more than the reality, but I think Gaudreau signs an extension in NJ.

They don't make the trade unless they have prelim discussions (like Vegas did with Stone).

[The_People1]

4 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Maybe I am presuming more than the reality, but I think Gaudreau signs an extension in NJ.

They dopn't make the trade unless they have prelim discussions (like Vegas did with Stone).

 

Yes if there is a sign and trade then the Flames could get more.

[travel_dude]

13 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Yes if there is a sign and trade then the Flames could get more.

 

You mean sign with a NTC for a flat salary amount that doesn't match NJ's needs?

Then he rejects the trade?

 

Just kidding about the NTC, but really it's something BT would need to give to get a long term deal.

[rocketdoctor]

Pelltier in action right now.   Vdor down 2-1 after 1

[cross16]

Season over for Pelletier as Val d'Or lost in the QMJHL Finals. 

 

Pretty impressive showing overall, including being named a 3 star in 3 of the 6 games in the Finals. Junior career should be over and he'll turn pro next year. 

 

 

[travel_dude]

4 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Season over for Pelletier as Val d'Or lost in the QMJHL Finals. 

 

Pretty impressive showing overall, including being named a 3 star in 3 of the 6 games in the Finals. Junior career should be over and he'll turn pro next year. 

 

Finally, we get to see him suit up.

Of course I have concerns that he will get stuck forever in Stockton or end up tolling on the 4th line.

There doesn't appear to be too much difference in size between him and Mangiapane, but of course that's no ideal size.

 

It's probably way too early to project him into the lineup, but I think we have to start building away from guys like Lucic.  He's here 2 more years.

Sign UFA's with future usage in mind, not just the immediate.

 

Thinking out loud.  

[robrob74]

50 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Finally, we get to see him suit up.

Of course I have concerns that he will get stuck forever in Stockton or end up tolling on the 4th line.

There doesn't appear to be too much difference in size between him and Mangiapane, but of course that's no ideal size.

 

It's probably way too early to project him into the lineup, but I think we have to start building away from guys like Lucic.  He's here 2 more years.

Sign UFA's with future usage in mind, not just the immediate.

 

Thinking out loud.  

could we offer Kraken a pick to take Lucic? They might want him anyway, but a pick might be a nudge they need. He’d be good leadership and a bit of protection for a young new team.

 

Can we offer to retain salary or is that only in a direct trade? 
 

then in the future, Pelletier has a possible home on the third line.

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, robrob74 said:

could we offer Kraken a pick to take Lucic? They might want him anyway, but a pick might be a nudge they need. He’d be good leadership and a bit of protection for a young new team.

 

Can we offer to retain salary or is that only in a direct trade? 
 

then in the future, Pelletier has a possible home on the third line.

 

I don't think we need to go there.  He's an option for then as it is; leadership, protect kids, Left Coaster....

If he stays here, I think we have to be honest with him and tell him his role is changing.

I've got no issue with him being a net front on a PP unit, but we need players that can get the put to the net.

Line number is meaningless; if we have two lines that can survive and thrive in the D-zone, he plays on one of them.

 

To put it simply, he can't just get 15 minutes a night because Backlund does.  

[zima]

I don't understand why everyone are so adamant on removing Looch he is a good player and has done his job I know he cost alot but as most here suggest keeping part of his contract why bother. He keeps the other team from beating up our players I know he doesn't do it as much but other teams know they can only do so much before they get a mit full of looch keep him and keep our picks stop wasting picks just to drop a few dollars.  

[cross16]

29 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

could we offer Kraken a pick to take Lucic? They might want him anyway, but a pick might be a nudge they need. He’d be good leadership and a bit of protection for a young new team.

 

Can we offer to retain salary or is that only in a direct trade? 
 

then in the future, Pelletier has a possible home on the third line.

 

It's possible but I think it would take a number 1. The intangibles he provides don't outweigh that contract with 2 more years on it. Plus your going to have to provide enough incentive for them to not select someone else and Gio is staring them in the face. He can provide the same leadership and also net them asset at the deadline. I don't see how you sway them without a 1 being involved and under no circumstances should the Flames do that. 

 

That being said, I don't think the chances are necessarily zero that the Flames could move Lucic. After his next signing bonus is paid out (which will happen this summer i'm just not sure when) he is only owed 2.5 and 1 mill in base salary the next 2 years with 1 more signing bonus of 3 million next summer. If the Flames are willing to pay the bonus this year I don't think its out of the question that a team could find value in that. It would break down to the new team only paying 6.5 million for 2 season of Lucic, which I would argue is fair value for this skillset, but he still counts 12 mill against the cap so big advantage to a team needing to get to the floor. 

 

While I don't think it's impossible, I would argue it is not likely. He still has a modified NTC (submits a 10 team list) so he has some say and then you have to convince the owners to pay 2.5 million for a player who isn't going to play for them and you are not going to get anything of value in return. It's still a tough sell. 

[zima]

Hey maybe thats why they grabbed Alex Chaisson just to put him on the Kraken block I don't like losing sieloff didn't give him much of a chance probably end up biting us in the bud

 

[travel_dude]

6 minutes ago, zima said:

Hey maybe thats why they grabbed Alex Chaisson just to put him on the Kraken block I don't like losing sieloff didn't give him much of a chance probably end up biting us in the bud

 

 

I'm not following you.  What does Chaisson have to do with anything.  He's an Oiler pending UFA.

He's no more on the block than any other UFA.