2019 Playoffs: What have we learned?

[conundrumed]

7 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

There is a lot of room on this message board for the same opinions said in different ways.  Everyone is free to express them.  

 

But if you've grown tired of it, feel free to join me in Off Topic.  We start Ancient Civilization talk.  Let's go.

Yay.

But hasn't the US bombed the Satoshi Nakamoto out of Mesopotamia, twice? Where the Tigris and Euphrates meet GE and Boeing?

[The_People1]

7 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Yay.

But hasn't the US bombed the Satoshi Nakamoto out of Mesopotamia, twice? Where the Tigris and Euphrates meet GE and Boeing?

 

Even more exciting is that the Richat Structure could be the location of the mythical Atlantis.  Start buying up real estate in Mauritania, tourism is about to boom.  

[Thebrewcrew]

There's a lesson to be learned from the Blues. They've been a heavyweight in the West for 5-7 years, faced lots of expectations, and couldn't get it done. Written off as "playoff chokers". They have made the big blockbuster trade to go all in- Ryan Miller... didn't work out. Moved many key pieces via trade or lost in UFA, captain Backes, Shattenkirk, who at the time was an elite point producer. 

 

Doug Armstrong did a great job building up that franchise, guys like Blais, Barbashev, Thomas, Dunn, all effective role players they drafted and developed. But they also didn't give up and make a panic trade. You keep knocking on the playoff door and eventually you can go on a run.

 

2 years in a row teams with playoff demons have broke through. No reason it can't be us. Keep making the playoffs and give ourselves a chance for the stars to align

[travel_dude]

26 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

There's a lesson to be learned from the Blues. They've been a heavyweight in the West for 5-7 years, faced lots of expectations, and couldn't get it done. Written off as "playoff chokers". They have made the big blockbuster trade to go all in- Ryan Miller... didn't work out. Moved many key pieces via trade or lost in UFA, captain Backes, Shattenkirk, who at the time was an elite point producer. 

 

Doug Armstrong did a great job building up that franchise, guys like Blais, Barbashev, Thomas, Dunn, all effective role players they drafted and developed. But they also didn't give up and make a panic trade. You keep knocking on the playoff door and eventually you can go on a run.

 

2 years in a row teams with playoff demons have broke through. No reason it can't be us. Keep making the playoffs and give ourselves a chance for the stars to align

 

There's a couple big lessons we should have learned.

Forecheck is important.

Goalies are worth their weight in gold.

 

Washington won once Holtby gained enough confidence to make the saves he needed to make.

Bingington came into the league and stole the show.

Shades of Matt Murray.

 

Goalies win championships.

Young goalies continue that into the following years. 

[taz89]

22 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

There's a couple big lessons we should have learned.

Forecheck is important.

Goalies are worth their weight in gold.

 

Washington won once Holtby gained enough confidence to make the saves he needed to make.

Bingington came into the league and stole the show.

Shades of Matt Murray.

 

Goalies win championships.

Young goalies continue that into the following years. 

I don't think anyone can argue this about goalies.  Binnington changed things completely for them and once the players instilled confidence in him there was no turning back.  Can Rittich be that person?  He can, but everyone else including the coaching staff has to show that they have confidence in him.  We need a clear #1 goalie and go with him no matter what.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, taz89 said:

I don't think anyone can argue this about goalies.  Binnington changed things completely for them and once the players instilled confidence in him there was no turning back.  Can Rittich be that person?  He can, but everyone else including the coaching staff has to show that they have confidence in him.  We need a clear #1 goalie and go with him no matter what.

 

I was alluding to that.

JB took the long road to the NHL.

We need a guy like Parsons to do that, or we need to get a guy like that.

I have faith in Ritter, but he has to get away from Mike Smith type play and stick to what he was good at.

Improve the little things.  Low and medium danger shots.

Short passes to the D.

[phoenix66]

6 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I was alluding to that.

JB took the long road to the NHL.

We need a guy like Parsons to do that, or we need to get a guy like that.

I have faith in Ritter, but he has to get away from Mike Smith type play and stick to what he was good at.

Improve the little things.  Low and medium danger shots.

Short passes to the D.

One thing to consider, is they were specifically pushing and working with Rittich to increase his puck handling last year . Whether we as fans like it or not , they see this as a big part of their attack.. so regardless of who is in the net next year , expect to see it more from anybody not named Smith

[The_People1]

What I learned these playoffs is you need dirty players like Oscar Sundqvist and Ivan Barbashev, some grit like Maroon and Perron, and grit Centes like ROR and Schenn.  

 

Regular season stars like Tarasenko become passengers.

 

Oh and you need stud goaltending.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, phoenix66 said:

One thing to consider, is they were specifically pushing and working with Rittich to increase his puck handling last year . Whether we as fans like it or not , they see this as a big part of their attack.. so regardless of who is in the net next year , expect to see it more from anybody not named Smith

 

First step, replace the goalie coach with one that has success.

I don't recall either Rask or Binnington being big players of the puck.

And I will stand by my assertion that it's a double edge sword.

I would prefer to lessen it to the point of it being an afterthought, not the plan. 

 

[robrob74]

Does our system afford a good forecheck? I get we have the puck a lot already, but are they in position when losing the puck to push the other team? At times i saw it but I also saw us giving up bad scoring chances when we lose the puck. I think teams wait it out to get those high end chances. 

 

I feel like our roster is still a huge work in process and is a mishmash of guys. There’s kind of a vision but is it really clear? 

 

We are some high end skill but minimal grit.

 

i think the regular season tells the tale of the lineup makeup. 

 

All of our versions of went well and what needs fixing has merit. 

 

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

First step, replace the goalie coach with one that has success.

I don't recall either Rask or Binnington being big players of the puck.

And I will stand by my assertion that it's a double edge sword.

I would prefer to lessen it to the point of it being an afterthought, not the plan. 

 

THIS.  Please.   Before we subject any more goalies to our system.

 

They should have a rule which basically states Edmonton is not allowed to develop prospects anymore  (ie.,  after X amount of first overall picks, you must trade your first rounders for veterans if you don't make the playoffs or change your coaching staff).

 

They should...have that same rule, for us with our goaltending.  To be completely honest.

[travel_dude]

24 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

Does our system afford a good forecheck? I get we have the puck a lot already, but are they in position when losing the puck to push the other team? At times i saw it but I also saw us giving up bad scoring chances when we lose the puck. I think teams wait it out to get those high end chances. 

 

I feel like our roster is still a huge work in process and is a mishmash of guys. There’s kind of a vision but is it really clear? 

 

We are some high end skill but minimal grit.

 

i think the regular season tells the tale of the lineup makeup. 

 

All of our versions of went well and what needs fixing has merit. 

 

 

So, I would say we have the ability to forecheck.  We have done it in games this year.  Not enough overall, but we dominated when we did it well.

Guys like Mangiapane, Hathaway, Lindholm, Ryan are good examples.  They did the job effectively.

At times, we didn't send in a 2nd man which would help.

 

Don't look at the playoffs as being what we are capable of.

We didn't do anything well then.

[robrob74]

4 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

So, I would say we have the ability to forecheck.  We have done it in games this year.  Not enough overall, but we dominated when we did it well.

Guys like Mangiapane, Hathaway, Lindholm, Ryan are good examples.  They did the job effectively.

At times, we didn't send in a 2nd man which would help.

 

Don't look at the playoffs as being what we are capable of.

We didn't do anything well then.

 

I am actually looking at post All Star Break. It’s hard to say what the playoffs mean as a part of me wants to dismiss it and the other part wants to question their determination. There wasn’t a lot of it heading into the playoffs, so I wasn’t surprised by the result, only that I didn’t expect it to be that bad.

 

its kind of like 75% of the team was stunned & didn’t know how to react.

[The_People1]

55 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

Does our system afford a good forecheck? I get we have the puck a lot already, but are they in position when losing the puck to push the other team? At times i saw it but I also saw us giving up bad scoring chances when we lose the puck. I think teams wait it out to get those high end chances. 

 

I feel like our roster is still a huge work in process and is a mishmash of guys. There’s kind of a vision but is it really clear? 

 

We are some high end skill but minimal grit.

 

i think the regular season tells the tale of the lineup makeup. 

 

All of our versions of went well and what needs fixing has merit. 

 

 

Time to add some grit knowing we will give up regular season success.

 

Again, two groups within one roster.  You need the soft/flashy group to get into the playoffs but once in the playoffs, it takes dirty mofos to destroy and wear down the other team in a 7-game series.  I'm not saying i love how the NHL is, i'm just saying, that's how the NHL is.  I wish it was all fluff and rainbows.

 

Let's try to get DSP for a 1-year $1-mil via UFA

I like Borowiecki for a 3rd round pick.

Sundqvist and Barbashev are RFAs.

Kurtis Gabriel via UFA for an enforcer

[robrob74]

6 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Time to add some grit knowing we will give up regular season success.

 

Again, two groups within one roster.  You need the soft/flashy group to get into the playoffs but once in the playoffs, it takes dirty mofos to destroy and wear down the other team in a 7-game series.  I'm not saying i love how the NHL is, i'm just saying, that's how the NHL is.  I wish it was all fluff and rainbows.

 

Let's try to get DSP for a 1-year $1-mil via UFA

I like Borowiecki for a 3rd round pick.

Sundqvist and Barbashev are RFAs.

Kurtis Gabriel via UFA for an enforcer

 

Yup! That’s why I think the vision isn’t quite right now. Maybe BT is still chipping away and adding what he thinks is the recipe. 

[travel_dude]

3 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I am actually looking at post All Star Break. It’s hard to say what the playoffs mean as a part of me wants to dismiss it and the other part wants to question their determination. There wasn’t a lot of it heading into the playoffs, so I wasn’t surprised by the result, only that I didn’t expect it to be that bad.

 

its kind of like 75% of the team was stunned & didn’t know how to react.

 

Sorry, I was talking about the same time period as you.  I said playoffs, but really the wheels came on much earlier.

What we did well for 3/4 of the season seemed to be packed away waiting for the playoffs.

Like I said, not every game, but we played games where we absolutely dominated.

 

The team seems to play two different games.

[cccsberg]

19 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Time to add some grit knowing we will give up regular season success.

 

Again, two groups within one roster.  You need the soft/flashy group to get into the playoffs but once in the playoffs, it takes dirty mofos to destroy and wear down the other team in a 7-game series.  I'm not saying i love how the NHL is, i'm just saying, that's how the NHL is.  I wish it was all fluff and rainbows.

 

Let's try to get DSP for a 1-year $1-mil via UFA

I like Borowiecki for a 3rd round pick.

Sundqvist and Barbashev are RFAs.

Kurtis Gabriel via UFA for an enforcer

I agree you’ve got it right about the need for 2 styles on the same team based on recent results.  I wonder about the backlash against the reffing issues this playoffs and whether there will be any long-term changes coming.  It would be nice to see but it is not clear yet.

[GM_3300]

4 hours ago, cccsberg said:

I agree you’ve got it right about the need for 2 styles on the same team based on recent results.  I wonder about the backlash against the reffing issues this playoffs and whether there will be any long-term changes coming.  It would be nice to see but it is not clear yet.

I don't think we need tons of changes vs subtle changes to obtain a few more players with higher compete levels and up the skills level.

If Treliving learned anything from the Brouwer experience trade Neal now, don't expect improved play from or you risk wasting another season. Don't risk it.

Frolik is a good player with some value that has been a luxury, now in his final season take the opportunity to get younger by trading him but improve on him.

Brodie has been a weak link on defense for a number of years now, people can say we have a solid D but it sure didn't look that way and we need to tighten up.
Stone no longer useful unless Brodie is traded and Andersson moves up with Giordano, Stone could finish out this season on the 3rd pairing. (not desired but could be)

Smith now a UFA let him stay a UFA we need a more reliable situation for our net.

Removing these 4 players should allow Treliving to improve our RW situation, have a more defensive element to our D and stabilize our Goalie situation.

Nothing to say this will happen but these additions could bring the elements we need and along with the ability to add some size at times to our 4th line could make the difference to incorporate two styles of play.

Adds: Kapanen RW, Connolly RW, Dzingel LW/C, Zaitsev RD, Mrazek G

LINEUP
Gaudreau, Monahan, Lindholm ( 2nd season together should be even better)

Tkachuk, Backlund, Kapanen ( more speed and more emphasis on offense)

Dzingel, Bennett, Connolly ( speedy hard checking line with scoring abilities)

Mangiapane, Ryan, Dube (speed, skill and scoring)

Rychel Quine, Lazar ( sub in some of these 3 provides size, good speed and a hard forecheck)

DEFENSE
Giordano, Zaitsev ( this should be a strong pairing)

Hanifin, Hamonic  ( 2nd season together will be better)

Valimaki, Andersson ( these two get to grow together)

Kylington (can fill in almost anywhere)

GOALIES

Mrazek, Rittich ( two Czechs with a friendly competition would be good)

[phoenix66]

As a General observation , the biggest thing I have learned from Playoffs , is you need more specialists.. in this case, i'll call them Playoff Specialists

We have Faceoff, Powerplay, penalty kill specialists.. this should not sound abnormal 

 

I'm talking the guys that for the most don't see much ice during the season , but they bring what you need in the playoffs 

The Reaves, DSP's, Justin Williams, Maroons, Thorburns and Bortuzzos

Not saying Goons and thugs, im saying the ones that work their butt off and bring that little bit extra that isn't needed during regular season 

 

In our case we have Peluso and Quine, ,they should have been incorporated

Straight up Pure Skill , has never ever won a cup ..   Burke's recall of a Bill Torre description is bang on  .  you have to win 4 rounds

Beat a Tough team , a Skilled team , and a "Special teams" team.. and one that is all 3 

[The_People1]

15 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

Yup! That’s why I think the vision isn’t quite right now. Maybe BT is still chipping away and adding what he thinks is the recipe. 

 

2 hours ago, cccsberg said:

I agree you’ve got it right about the need for 2 styles on the same team based on recent results.  I wonder about the backlash against the reffing issues this playoffs and whether there will be any long-term changes coming.  It would be nice to see but it is not clear yet.

 

Well, quite obviously, there's one set of refereeing rules for the regular season and one for the playoffs.  So we need 2 groups.

 

 

[Horsman1]

11 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Sorry, I was talking about the same time period as you.  I said playoffs, but really the wheels came on much earlier.

What we did well for 3/4 of the season seemed to be packed away waiting for the playoffs.

Like I said, not every game, but we played games where we absolutely dominated.

 

The team seems to play two different games.

christmas break/all-star break and mandatory week destroyed Flames momentum and they never hit a groove after that.. Lesson learned was.. Use trading deadline to readjust your roster for playoffs

[GM_3300]

13 hours ago, Horsman1 said:

christmas break/all-star break and mandatory week destroyed Flames momentum and they never hit a groove after that.. Lesson learned was.. Use trading deadline to readjust your roster for playoffs

There is no doubt the team became complacent, why ? only they know. They can only blame themselves and sometimes that can be the best motivator heading into the following season. Right now the important process is to be honest about what aspects of your team were not quite working for you. Treliving and Peters have now had a year together and plenty of discussions on what needs to be accomplished in order to ice a better team in 2019/2020. If they get the roster right in the offseason you don't necessarily need to do anything at the TDL.

[Thebrewcrew]

As the loss of the playoffs has worn off, I don't think we need to re-make this team. A big part of the playoffs is getting hot, but an even bigger part is getting the breaks.

 

As bad as the Flames played, they easily could have won 3 games.

 

Game 2- 2-1lead late lost a D zone draw, Avs tied it and won in OT

 

Game 4- Blew a late 2-0 lead, Puck over glass penalty, Incredible Grubauer save on Backlund.

 

We didn't deserve to win but were a couple breaks from almost winning that series. That being sais, we still need ti improve this roster, but a complete revamp I disagree with.

 

Find a new backup, a top 6 winger or 2nd line C and add some more depth

[travel_dude]

15 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

As the loss of the playoffs has worn off, I don't think we need to re-make this team. A big part of the playoffs is getting hot, but an even bigger part is getting the breaks.

 

As bad as the Flames played, they easily could have won 3 games.

 

Game 2- 2-1lead late lost a D zone draw, Avs tied it and won in OT

 

Game 4- Blew a late 2-0 lead, Puck over glass penalty, Incredible Grubauer save on Backlund.

 

We didn't deserve to win but were a couple breaks from almost winning that series. That being sais, we still need ti improve this roster, but a complete revamp I disagree with.

 

Find a new backup, a top 6 winger or 2nd line C and add some more depth

 

It doesn't make much sense to trade JH, Monahan, Backlund, Neal, Gio, etc. even if they did little in the playoffs.

Smith was in nets and we lost.

Was anyone surprised that happened?

Did playing Smith provide any glimpse into the future of goaltending in Calgary?

 

I'm not pinning the losses on Smith, obviously.  He stopped a ton.  He let in some good and bad shots.

But we never got the chance to build on the #1 guy.  Give him some experience.

See how the team responded to him.

He could have been another Binnington and the team responded by scoring goals.

Instead, we iced the guy who plays the puck every time it comes to him.

 

I agree that we are pretty close to the right mix.  The team fell apart rather than not having the right players.

We could have used a Zucker or a depth center.

Maybe a RHS D-man to jump in when Brodie was struggling.

You win on the backs of great goaltending and stellar defense.

We had neither.

[jjgallow]

14 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

It doesn't make much sense to trade JH, Monahan, Backlund, Neal, Gio, etc. even if they did little in the playoffs.

Smith was in nets and we lost.

Was anyone surprised that happened?

Did playing Smith provide any glimpse into the future of goaltending in Calgary?

 

I'm not pinning the losses on Smith, obviously.  He stopped a ton.  He let in some good and bad shots.

But we never got the chance to build on the #1 guy.  Give him some experience.

See how the team responded to him.

He could have been another Binnington and the team responded by scoring goals.

Instead, we iced the guy who plays the puck every time it comes to him.

 

I agree that we are pretty close to the right mix.  The team fell apart rather than not having the right players.

We could have used a Zucker or a depth center.

Maybe a RHS D-man to jump in when Brodie was struggling.

You win on the backs of great goaltending and stellar defense.

We had neither.

 

 

You've always had a great attitude with a steady hand, and this is no exception, so full props.

 

Nor do I intend for...any of my posts to be popular, really.   this being no exception.  But,

 

Assuming a team builds itself out from its goaltender, to defence, and then forwards:

 

We have nothing in the way of a team-building goalie.  As you mentioned.

Our defence fell apart.  Maybe we have the right pieces maybe we don't.  But it was ineffective.

Our forwards were ineffective in playoff style hockey.

 

So, I always do actually appreciate your optimism.   But, that's  a 3 for 3 no-go.    I just can't call that close to the right mix.

 

It's...the opposite of the right mix.

 

What we do have, is some valuable pieces in the wrong places.

 

 

Sucks that we have to rebuild again, but it's not the end of the word and it's also inevitable.  Whether we do it now or 3 years from now.

 

Start from your goaltender.   We should be looking for that now.  And we need to be honest with ourselves about our development system for goalies.

 

Get that right, and we can say we've "started" a sensible rebuild process for the first time.