James Neal

[rickross]

Is it even worth keeping Neal at this point? His cap hit already far exceeds the value he’s brought. Do the Flames hang on to him for now, hope he rebounds and try and pawn him off to Seattle? I just don’t see him earning his pay grade here and we all know that $5M+ could be used elsewhere. 

[The_People1]

5 hours ago, rickross said:

Is it even worth keeping Neal at this point? 

 

No.

[The_Tribal Chief]

Sorry But i dont Share this View of giving up on him yet i seen this the previous Season with Hamonic being with a new team now this is the same scenario new team new coach it takes time i think James Neal know he can be alot better and will be when the season starts i just know how hard it can be to go from team to team and adjusting is easier said then done i Know im Gonna take Heat for he is a Professional player but sometimes it is alot easier said then done if after next season there is no Improvement Fine move him but give him that year leeway to get adjusted to the team and the coach

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, The_Snowbear said:

Sorry But i dont Share this View of giving up on him yet i seen this the previous Season with Hamonic being with a new team now this is the same scenario new team new coach it takes time i think James Neal know he can be alot better and will be when the season starts i just know how hard it can be to go from team to team and adjusting is easier said then done i Know im Gonna take Heat for he is a Professional player but sometimes it is alot easier said then done if after next season there is no Improvement Fine move him but give him that year leeway to get adjusted to the team and the coach

 

I understand, but then I think the worry could be that if we wait until next year and he has a similar season, he becomes a definitely untradeable player whereas now he teams might think it’s just the fit, or that we used him wrong. I can’t see teams wanting to chance it if he’s still playing like poop then.

[The_Tribal Chief]

I Agree but if that Trade Turns to Bite us in the rear Nest Season then what do you do aswell This is literally a Catch 22 Situation Here Robrob74 Cause if you Trade him and then he destroys you on a New team then your kicking yourself if you dont trade him and his trade value drops cause he has a crappy season then your Toast But it is a Situation No one Can Predict what would happen if he was traded or what will happen on that same Vein If We keep him Now im not Saying there isnt Reason for Concern i Agree but all im Saying is Dont Go Making a Rash decision before it Kick's you in the Family Jewels and you Regret it later

[robrob74]

Right now, the cap savings alone would be great to help sign Tkachuk and some of the others. 

 

There’s  something about Calgary’s altitude that is slowing some free agents down. BT isn’t having the greatest of luck with UFA signings. 

 

Can Neal get back to his normal average ? Maybe. 

[redfire11]

If we can sign Tkachuk on a lower bridge deal I could see us being able to afford Neal's contract. We never gave up any assets to obtain Neal so if we were to get Anything for him in a trade is found Money and Assets.

[MAC331]

2 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

Right now, the cap savings alone would be great to help sign Tkachuk and some of the others. 

 

There’s  something about Calgary’s altitude that is slowing some free agents down. BT isn’t having the greatest of luck with UFA signings. 

 

Can Neal get back to his normal average ? Maybe. 

What is getting lost with the evaluation on Neal is that it as always been the situation where the other players have made him successful not the other way around. Players such as Gaudreau and Tkachuk drive the action on their lines, Neal is the type of player that is a recipient of such line mates, he is a proven sniper. Last season he was never put in that position and I would say if management doesn't view him as a top 6 player everything possible should be done to trade him.

[cross16]

i don't think the question is/or should be is Neal worth keeping, that answer is clear. 

 

The question is what is the cost to get rid of him versus the value of keeping him. Because if you are being honest he is not a tradable asset unless you put in a sweetner. So question for me is what is the value of that sweetner and at the end of the day are you better off? That's the question I ask. 

[MAC331]

13 minutes ago, cross16 said:

i don't think the question is/or should be is Neal worth keeping, that answer is clear. 

 

The question is what is the cost to get rid of him versus the value of keeping him. Because if you are being honest he is not a tradable asset unless you put in a sweetner. So question for me is what is the value of that sweetner and at the end of the day are you better off? That's the question I ask. 

For the sake of discussion I will stay on the possibility of a deal with the CBJs and there are some "ifs" here. If they are or Torts are truly disgruntled wit Wennberg's play and want to move him, Neal could be an option for them. CBJ has a hard time keeping players there and stand to lose all of Panarin, Duchene and Dzingel not to mention Bobrovsky. They could have Neal for more years on a contract that has no trade restrictions if willing to think Neal can have that "bounce back" there. If it takes a "sweetener" BT has a few he could consider in Kylington, Mangiaane, Dube, Czarnik or Foo to name a few. The other team to consider would be NJD for Neal.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

i don't think the question is/or should be is Neal worth keeping, that answer is clear. 

 

The question is what is the cost to get rid of him versus the value of keeping him. Because if you are being honest he is not a tradable asset unless you put in a sweetner. So question for me is what is the value of that sweetner and at the end of the day are you better off? That's the question I ask. 

 

I think the list of teams that would have interest in Neal are small, and the cost to trade him makes us worse.

There might be a team willing to take a big chance and offer value, but somehow I doubt it.

We are stuck with him.

Don't know if he can work on his fitness/skating, but it might be a place to start.

Otherwise, we have to fit him with players that he makes better or they make him better.

Regardless of his play, the line he played on underperformed.

You can't just lump that on Neal.

 

I think we have to improve the roster around him.

3rd line was bad.

2nd line was good at stopping other lines, but not so good 5v5 on offense.

Tkachuk was great on the PP.

[bosn111]

I guess I disagree in some ways with cross here, though it happens rarely.

 

I do not think the answer is as clear as you seem to think. It is not that I believe Neal should not be traded, it is that I disagree that he must be traded and at any cost. The reasons are as follows (though I am not advocating we do any of these options, they are just examples)

 

If the Flames were to make some trades as follows, Neal would be kept, moved up the lineup and likely be successful again. (I am not accounting for cap as specific players are example of playing style, not necessarily the player themselves)

 

Trade Monahan

Add playoff Mackinnon type (Fast, power center with skill to pass or shoot)

Move Neal to top line RW

 

Your line would then be Gaudreau, Mackinnon (or similar), Neal. The center would drive the play into the offensive zone, pushing the D back. This opens space for Johnny to work his magic and leaves openings for Neal to slide into a good shooting position to get an open pass from the center or Johnny. This plays to the strengths of both Johnny and Neal increasing both of their success.

 

 

[The_People1]

2 minutes ago, bosn111 said:

 

If the Flames were to make some trades as follows, Neal would be kept, moved up the lineup and likely be successful again. 

 

The only thing that will make Neal successful again is Neal getting faster.  

 

Think about it.  What you are saying is basically, all the Oilers need to do is play Lucic with McDavid and Lucic will be a 30-goal scorer again.  No.  Nevermind that Lucic has no speed to keep up with McDavid.  Likewise, Jagr cannot keep up with Gaudreau.

 

I joked about this mid-season because everyone was saying Neal needs to play with better linemates.  At the same time, Bennett needs to play with better linemates and Jankowski needs to play with better linemates.  All three are so awesome, why aren't they playing with better linemates?

 

It's just nonsense talk.  Only Neal can make Neal better next season.  At 32, he will need to get back his foot speed from 3 years ago, at least.  Is it the high altitude in Calgary?  Is it the winters?  Is it the women?  He has hit the wall and yet BT thought he had 5-more years left in the tank.  At his age, chances aren't good that he can get faster again.

[MAC331]

4 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

The only thing that will make Neal successful again is Neal getting faster.  

 

Think about it.  What you are saying is basically, all the Oilers need to do is play Lucic with McDavid and Lucic will be a 30-goal scorer again.  No.  Nevermind that Lucic has no speed to keep up with McDavid.  Likewise, Jagr cannot keep up with Gaudreau.

 

I joked about this mid-season because everyone was saying Neal needs to play with better linemates.  At the same time, Bennett needs to play with better linemates and Jankowski needs to play with better linemates.  All three are so awesome, why aren't they playing with better linemates?

 

It's just nonsense talk.  Only Neal can make Neal better next season.  At 32, he will need to get back his foot speed from 3 years ago, at least.  Is it the high altitude in Calgary?  Is it the winters?  Is it the women?  He has hit the wall and yet BT thought he had 5-more years left in the tank.  At his age, chances aren't good that he can get faster again.

The bigger example of nonsense is why have all 3 Bennett, Jankowski and Neal playing with each other. Figure that part out and come back to us.

[cross16]

17 minutes ago, bosn111 said:

I guess I disagree in some ways with cross here, though it happens rarely.

 

I do not think the answer is as clear as you seem to think. It is not that I believe Neal should not be traded, it is that I disagree that he must be traded and at any cost. The reasons are as follows (though I am not advocating we do any of these options, they are just examples)

 

 

I actually don't disagree that he must be traded at any cost. The key questions for me is what is that cost is it worth it to pay that cost to move him. For example if it cost a first round pick to move him i'd say no as I don't thikn that is worth it, but if it was a 2nd (and yes i'm fully aware they have no second) i'd say yes in a heartbeat. Depends on cost. Also I will add a caveat that for me this has been a bad deal the second it was signed so even if he "bounces back" it still not a good contract.

 

For pepole who expect Neal to bounce back I would also add who was the last player you can think of who was over the age of 30 and reversed a downward trend in his career? People seem to be arguing that Neal's play fell off a cliff this season, but it really didn't. It fell somewhat dramatically from previous years but it's been a steady decline so I personally don't think it's realistic to expect that Neal is suddenly going to reverse all of that and go back to 20-25 goals and 45 plus points. It's an extremely rare thing to do. 

[MAC331]

23 minutes ago, bosn111 said:

I guess I disagree in some ways with cross here, though it happens rarely.

 

I do not think the answer is as clear as you seem to think. It is not that I believe Neal should not be traded, it is that I disagree that he must be traded and at any cost. The reasons are as follows (though I am not advocating we do any of these options, they are just examples)

 

If the Flames were to make some trades as follows, Neal would be kept, moved up the lineup and likely be successful again. (I am not accounting for cap as specific players are example of playing style, not necessarily the player themselves)

 

Trade Monahan

Add playoff Mackinnon type (Fast, power center with skill to pass or shoot)

Move Neal to top line RW

 

Your line would then be Gaudreau, Mackinnon (or similar), Neal. The center would drive the play into the offensive zone, pushing the D back. This opens space for Johnny to work his magic and leaves openings for Neal to slide into a good shooting position to get an open pass from the center or Johnny. This plays to the strengths of both Johnny and Neal increasing both of their success.

 

 

I believe the element you are touching on is the need to build speed continuously around 3 slower types in Monahan, Tkachuk and Neal. I say trade Neal and move Monahan to LW. I don't think he is the type of C Peters wants covering the ice. It isn't worth continuing any debate with posters who say Neal can't be traded, it will or it won't happen. If Peters wants a faster more skilled team something has to give.

[JTech780]

To add to what Cross is saying, I think you also have to add what we can add with that added cap space into the discussion.

 

If we trade Neal and a 2nd and are able to add a legit top 6 forward or a legit number 1 goalie on reasonable contract then that is a clear win. 

 

The biggest factor with moving Neal is what we end up doing with the cap space.

[robrob74]

I am with Mac on this, although I’ve been wrong thinking Brouwer could be dealt. 

 

But i think there could be a team interested in him. It’s too bad he costs a lot though. 

 

I wish BT would stay clear of UFAs as his track record stinks in that market. We need the cap space he uses to overpay free agents. I think even Ryan is overpriced. Neal is by a year or two and perhaps by 500-750K, maybe 1M. 

[MAC331]

11 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

To add to what Cross is saying, I think you also have to add what we can add with that added cap space into the discussion.

 

If we trade Neal and a 2nd and are able to add a legit top 6 forward or a legit number 1 goalie on reasonable contract then that is a clear win. 

 

The biggest factor with moving Neal is what we end up doing with the cap space.

Why don't you provide your thoughts on who else is likely to be moved out and those effects on the cap situation for us ?

[MAC331]

11 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

I am with Mac on this, although I’ve been wrong thinking Brouwer could be dealt. 

 

But i think there could be a team interested in him. It’s too bad he costs a lot though. 

 

I wish BT would stay clear of UFAs as his track record stinks in that market. We need the cap space he uses to overpay free agents. I think even Ryan is overpriced. Neal is by a year or two and perhaps by 500-750K, maybe 1M. 

I don't care what anyone says here, if Neal had played top line RW with Gaudreau and Monahan we would not be talking about what to do with him now at great lengths. I agree the trade list may be small now but there are 2 or 3 that could use what Neal still has to offer and it only takes one.

[The_People1]

46 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I don't care what anyone says here, if Neal had played top line RW with Gaudreau and Monahan we would not be talking about what to do with him now at great lengths. I agree the trade list may be small now but there are 2 or 3 that could use what Neal still has to offer and it only takes one.

 

Sometimes a player slows down MAC.  Neal provably could not keep up all season.  He needs to work on his skating and speed.  Get it back to where it was a few seasons ago. 

 

 

[robrob74]

8 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Sometimes a player slows down MAC.  Neal provably could not keep up all season.  He needs to work on his skating and speed.  Get it back to where it was a few seasons ago. 

 

 

 

I think it’s also placement. As a shooter he’s not on a PP where a true passer gets him the puck. The 2nd unit wasn’t very good most of the year. Not only that, the first unit got 1:15 time on the PP, leaving about 0:15 to set up the 2nd unit and thus about 0:15-0:30 time to close out a pp. that’s not a recipe for success with him too. 

[MAC331]

38 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I think it’s also placement. As a shooter he’s not on a PP where a true passer gets him the puck. The 2nd unit wasn’t very good most of the year. Not only that, the first unit got 1:15 time on the PP, leaving about 0:15 to set up the 2nd unit and thus about 0:15-0:30 time to close out a pp. that’s not a recipe for success with him too. 

More importantly is that there is no scenario on next season's team to have his situation be any different, so he has to go. I truly think Tkachuk is the best to handle a move to his off hand wing to RW on the top line with Gaudreau and Lindholm not Monahan.

[The_Tribal Chief]

Your gonna be Hardpressed Mac if you Think monahan isnt gonna be on the top line he is gonna stay there he is Jh Brother in armsI

[MAC331]

27 minutes ago, The_Snowbear said:

Your gonna be Hardpressed Mac if you Think monahan isnt gonna be on the top line he is gonna stay there he is Jh Brother in armsI

You could be right, just my thinking if they want to change it up. If they bring in more speedy talent BP could afford to try a few different line scenarios.