Sam Bennett

[robrob74]

3 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Draisaitl was meh his first season where they burned his first year and sent him back to the WHL.

Thn he started in the AHL for 6 games, putting up 2 points.

How is that the same?

Bennett went to junior without playing a single NHL game, after his surgery.

And then played the whole year after the playoffs,

Was not eligible to play in the AHL until after that year.

 

But anyway, we get the message.

Would you trade him to EDM for Puljujarvi?

Two players that have not met expectations or adapted to their circumstances.

I am not saying Bennett should be lighting it up with the players he gets, but he should be at least doing what Mangiapane is doing.

You want to score goals?

Put yourself in position to do it.

 

 

 

Maybe.

 

but the players that Bennett gets are not Ryan. Or Ryan level. Not saying Ryan is great, but he pushes play forward. I see Bennett doing that but then play dies in the offensive end. 

 

I think JJ was being really really sarcastic. I think even though he did burn his time and should’ve gone back to Junior, it was clear he needed time in the A. The bottom 6 is a Satoshi Nakamoto show and has been since Tkachuk started. We are seeing the results. Although he did do ok with Backlund.

 

I just think if they wanted a C out of him that they should have developed him that way. 

[travel_dude]

9 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

Maybe.

 

but the players that Bennett gets are not Ryan. Or Ryan level. Not saying Ryan is great, but he pushes play forward. I see Bennett doing that but then play dies in the offensive end. 

 

I think JJ was being really really sarcastic. I think even though he did burn his time and should’ve gone back to Junior, it was clear he needed time in the A. The bottom 6 is a Satoshi Nakamoto show and has been since Tkachuk started. We are seeing the results. Although he did do ok with Backlund.

 

I just think if they wanted a C out of him that they should have developed him that way. 

 

I am used to JJ's posting so I knew it was sarvasm.

Bennett played a full year in the NHL unlike Draisaitl, but I get what you mean about going back in that first full season.

Then again he had a decent enough rookie year.

Not spectacular, but 18g 18a (4 g in one game I know).

Do you send him to the AHL then?

The next year was a bit less but he did have some decent depth player (other than Brouwer).

 

 

[JTech780]

Ok let's straighten out the timeline here.

 

2014-2015: Bennett was drafted and spent most his time recovering from shoulder surgery. After he recovered he played 1 game for the Flames and then was sent back to the OHL and had 24 points in 11 games. After Kingston was eliminated from the playoffs he played 11 playoff games for the Flames and had 4 points.

 

2015-2016: Bennett played 77 games for the Flames and had 18 goals and 36 points. He had out grown junior and was ineligible to play in the AHL. He showed this season that he was capable of playing in the NHL and playing well. He played most of that year with Backlund.

 

2016-2017: Gulutzan became coach and Matthew Tkachuk over took Bennett's spot in the lineup. Bennett starting getting moved around the lineup and playing different positions.

 

After that season Bennett hasn't gotten  regular linemates or a regular position.

 

Sending a 20 year old to the AHL after he just scored 18 goals in the NHL, would have been a terrible idea and he would have never recovered from that.

 

What needed to happen was that Bennett needed to be given regular playing time in a role with skilled linemates and be given a position to focus on. Every year after his rookie season he has been given new linemates and a new position.

 

Now we either need to give him some consistency and hope he rebounds or move him for another struggling player, like Puljujarvi or Virtanen and hope we can find gold.

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

Would you trade him to EDM for Puljujarvi?

 

I would be interested in Puljujarvi but I don't believe Bennett is an asset worth trading right now unless for much higher than his current depressed market value.

 

Giordano, Brodie, Gaudreau, Backlund are all players that I would have dangled because they had considerable market value and were unlikely to exceed that market value in performance.      Obviously not straight 1-for-1 deals, and not necessarily for Puljujarvi or with Edmonton.

 

While being enticed by Puljujarvi I just don't think a prospect as undervalued as Bennett should ever be dangled until Some kind of attempt is made to get them where they should be and I've honestly never seen that from the Flames, all I have seen them do is use him as a spare tire.

 

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

Ok let's straighten out the timeline here.

 

2014-2015: Bennett was drafted and spent most his time recovering from shoulder surgery. After he recovered he played 1 game for the Flames and then was sent back to the OHL and had 24 points in 11 games. After Kingston was eliminated from the playoffs he played 11 playoff games for the Flames and had 4 points.

 

2015-2016: Bennett played 77 games for the Flames and had 18 goals and 36 points. He had out grown junior and was ineligible to play in the AHL. He showed this season that he was capable of playing in the NHL and playing well. He played most of that year with Backlund.

 

Actually was no reason at all why he couldn't spend another year in junior especially considering the shoulder recovery.   The words "shoulder surgery" should not have ever been anywhere near the words "NHL debut" no matter his abilities.   It was glaring and controversial then and it is glaring and controversial now.    This marked the beginning of his role change from offensive team leader to plugger, and no explanation was really given why he was being developed into this role.

 

Quote

2016-2017: Gulutzan became coach and Matthew Tkachuk over took Bennett's spot in the lineup. Bennett starting getting moved around the lineup and playing different positions.

 

After that season Bennett hasn't gotten  regular linemates or a regular position.

 

Sending a 20 year old to the AHL after he just scored 18 goals in the NHL, would have been a terrible idea and he would have never recovered from that.

 

Actually no reason at all why he couldn't spend a year in the AHL with his talent level as a top-line player, the only kind of player we ever should have developed him as.  If he ego was so great that he can't recover from playing AHL hockey then we never should have drafted him to begin with.

 

36 points is absolutely nothing to write home about for a guy who was in fact considered to be just as talented or more talented than Draisaitl at the time.   

 

I do agree with you that your diagnosis of him never having regular linemates or top roles was the isssue.   What I do not agree with is making excuses for the organization about this as if they had no choice.  Draisaitl was Just as much as a liability but was given every opportunity to succeed in top roles.

 

Quote

 

What needed to happen was that Bennett needed to be given regular playing time in a role with skilled linemates and be given a position to focus on. Every year after his rookie season he has been given new linemates and a new position.

 

Now we either need to give him some consistency

 

I do agree with this.    Absolutely this was the issue.   Of course the player takes some responsibility too but......if he's never given the chance it's hard to pin it all on the player.   That's why pretty much everywhere else in the world elite prospects aren't just being looped through backchecking drills.

 

Quote

and hope he rebounds or move him for another struggling player, like Puljujarvi or Virtanen and hope we can find gold.

 

I do not agree with "hoping" or "moving".    Fix the development system and stop wasting picks.

 

It Still isn't too late for him to be given top line minutes Somewhere and go from there.

 

 

The reality is that the Only reason Bennett was rushed is because the Flames were in a "Win Now" mode and that heavily outweighed recovery from surgery and development.

 

 

 

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

Ok let's straighten out the timeline here.

 

2014-2015: Bennett was drafted and spent most his time recovering from shoulder surgery. After he recovered he played 1 game for the Flames and then was sent back to the OHL and had 24 points in 11 games. After Kingston was eliminated from the playoffs he played 11 playoff games for the Flames and had 4 points.

 

2015-2016: Bennett played 77 games for the Flames and had 18 goals and 36 points. He had out grown junior and was ineligible to play in the AHL. He showed this season that he was capable of playing in the NHL and playing well. He played most of that year with Backlund.

 

2016-2017: Gulutzan became coach and Matthew Tkachuk over took Bennett's spot in the lineup. Bennett starting getting moved around the lineup and playing different positions.

 

After that season Bennett hasn't gotten  regular linemates or a regular position.

 

Sending a 20 year old to the AHL after he just scored 18 goals in the NHL, would have been a terrible idea and he would have never recovered from that.

 

What needed to happen was that Bennett needed to be given regular playing time in a role with skilled linemates and be given a position to focus on. Every year after his rookie season he has been given new linemates and a new position.

 

Now we either need to give him some consistency and hope he rebounds or move him for another struggling player, like Puljujarvi or Virtanen and hope we can find gold.

 

 

Yup, I know what I am saying is kind of contradictory but I agree and understand the timelines. I get that it could be bad to send him back too. 

 

Maybe another year in Junior would have been too easy. But you’re right and I think he needs one position right now and needs consistent line mates. My vote is Center. I know others saw his last game at C different than me, but I thought he looked good there. My vote is let him play and work through it. That’s my main reason for thinking the AHL would have benefited him because they’d allow him to play top line minutes at a position they wanted him to succeed in. It is why I thought possibly that he might have been okay to go down to develop there. Maybe it’s what they could have said? “We need you to develop at C to be our #1. 

 

Earlier in his career I feel like I saw I different player than what I see now.

[robrob74]

31 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Actually was no reason at all why he couldn't spend another year in junior especially considering the shoulder recovery.   The words "shoulder surgery" should not have ever been anywhere near the words "NHL debut" no matter his abilities.   It was glaring and controversial then and it is glaring and controversial now.    This marked the beginning of his role change from offensive team leader to plugger, and no explanation was really given why he was being developed into this role.

 

 

Actually no reason at all why he couldn't spend a year in the AHL with his talent level as a top-line player, the only kind of player we ever should have developed him as.  If he ego was so great that he can't recover from playing AHL hockey then we never should have drafted him to begin with.

 

36 points is absolutely nothing to write home about for a guy who was in fact considered to be just as talented or more talented than Draisaitl at the time.   

 

I do agree with you that your diagnosis of him never having regular linemates or top roles was the isssue.   What I do not agree with is making excuses for the organization about this as if they had no choice.  Draisaitl was Just as much as a liability but was given every opportunity to succeed in top roles.

 

 

I do agree with this.    Absolutely this was the issue.   Of course the player takes some responsibility too but......if he's never given the chance it's hard to pin it all on the player.   That's why pretty much everywhere else in the world elite prospects aren't just being looped through backchecking drills.

 

 

I do not agree with "hoping" or "moving".    Fix the development system and stop wasting picks.

 

It Still isn't too late for him to be given top line minutes Somewhere and go from there.

 

 

The reality is that the Only reason Bennett was rushed is because the Flames were in a "Win Now" mode and that heavily outweighed recovery from surgery and development.

 

 

 

 

 

I agree, and the Flames has no one else to fill the roles they placed him in. I think if he wasn’t good enough for a top6 C yet then he should’ve went back to junior. Then possibly the AHL.

 

i think that he is good enough to play NHL minutes but just good enough has always been in the problem. 

[sak22]

Just now, robrob74 said:

 

 

Yup, I know what I am saying is kind of contradictory but I agree and understand the timelines. I get that it could be bad to send him back too. 

 

Maybe another year in Junior would have been too easy. But you’re right and I think he needs one position right now and needs consistent line mates. My vote is Center. I know others saw his last game at C different than me, but I thought he looked good there. My vote is let him play and work through it. That’s my main reason for thinking the AHL would have benefited him because they’d allow him to play top line minutes at a position they wanted him to succeed in. It is why I thought possibly that he might have been okay to go down to develop there. Maybe it’s what they could have said? “We need you to develop at C to be our #1. 

 

Earlier in his career I feel like I saw I different player than what I see now.

I agree, just he wasn't allowed that.  Unlike Monahan who started his career a bottom 6 centre, he was allowed to fight through slumps and mistakes because they had no expectations to win, eventually as the season went along he got to play with Hudler.   Fast forward to Bennett's first year as centre and he has nowhere to go up the depth chart, gets healthy scratched when struggled and plays most of his season with PTO fodder like Versteeg and Chiasson, or crap like Brouwer all with the pressure of needing to perform because we had playoff expectations.  Move to year 2 of Gully and the winger depth is so poor outside of the first 2 lines that they sign Jagr.  When he is moved back to wing he's stuck with the guy who is a worse centre than he is, and generally stuck with deadweight like Neal.  3 Games in this year and a promotion to line 2 that lasted 1 period.  I just don't know how a guy can grow while being stuck with all our whipping boys of recent years for most of the time and getting slight bumps to the top 6 that only lasts until they have a bad game or period.

[JTech780]

35 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Actually was no reason at all why he couldn't spend another year in junior especially considering the shoulder recovery.   The words "shoulder surgery" should not have ever been anywhere near the words "NHL debut" no matter his abilities.   It was glaring and controversial then and it is glaring and controversial now.    This marked the beginning of his role change from offensive team leader to plugger, and no explanation was really given why he was being developed into this role.

 

 

Actually no reason at all why he couldn't spend a year in the AHL with his talent level as a top-line player, the only kind of player we ever should have developed him as.  If he ego was so great that he can't recover from playing AHL hockey then we never should have drafted him to begin with.

 

36 points is absolutely nothing to write home about for a guy who was in fact considered to be just as talented or more talented than Draisaitl at the time.   

 

I do agree with you that your diagnosis of him never having regular linemates or top roles was the isssue.   What I do not agree with is making excuses for the organization about this as if they had no choice.  Draisaitl was Just as much as a liability but was given every opportunity to succeed in top roles.

 

 

I do agree with this.    Absolutely this was the issue.   Of course the player takes some responsibility too but......if he's never given the chance it's hard to pin it all on the player.   That's why pretty much everywhere else in the world elite prospects aren't just being looped through backchecking drills.

 

 

I do not agree with "hoping" or "moving".    Fix the development system and stop wasting picks.

 

It Still isn't too late for him to be given top line minutes Somewhere and go from there.

 

 

The reality is that the Only reason Bennett was rushed is because the Flames were in a "Win Now" mode and that heavily outweighed recovery from surgery and development.

 

 

 

 

Spending another year in the OHL would have done nothing for his development, in fact probably would have had a negative effect on his development, spending another year learning bad habits in the OHL.

 

I have never seen a scenario where a young player was sent to AHL after playing a full season in the NHL and came back better, let alone a player who put up 18 goals in his rookie season. Sending him to the AHL after that would have killed his career.

[cross16]

funny to read the “they should have sent him down” stuff when the consensus from most was he was a Calder candidate and compared well to McDavid. A lot of revisionist history here. 
 

Development  is more than just junior, AHL there is developing at the NHL level too, and it doesn’t matter if you’ve spent 1,2 or 4 years in junior this is still a necessity. I don’t think sending Bennett down to the OHL for another year changes anything because imo where this has gone wrong is developing Bennett at the nhl level. No defined role, trying to get a young player to carry sub par line mates, and really no patience with his game and never being put in a position to succeed. that’s key for young skilled players you have to find ways to let them succeed.

 

case in point Draisaitl. They tried many times to get him to carry his own line and it didn’t work, but rather than stay with it they’d put him back with McDavid. It hurt their center depth but it allowed Draisaitl to continue to build confidence, work on his offensive game and find a role. He still isn’t great without McDavid but oilers have been patient letting him find his way and he’s rewarding him. Flames never did any of that with Bennett and there’s evidence that it would have worked

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

funny to read the “they should have sent him down” stuff when the consensus from most was he was a Calder candidate and compared well to McDavid. A lot of revisionist history here. 

 

Are you saying that at some point I was super supportive of how he was developed?   Because this I would love to see

 

 

 

This is the earliest I can find in the records for some reason.     I certainly haven't been revising my history.

 

I will admit (on memory) that many here other than me supported his promotion.     So I'll correct that, you are right, it wasn't controversial except with a small number of us including myself.

 

That doesn't mean it was a good idea

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

 

Spending another year in the OHL would have done nothing for his development, in fact probably would have had a negative effect on his development, spending another year learning bad habits in the OHL.

 

I have never seen a scenario where a young player was sent to AHL after playing a full season in the NHL and came back better, let alone a player who put up 18 goals in his rookie season. Sending him to the AHL after that would have killed his career.

 

So .. just quickly checking in the NHL's leading scorers...

 

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=130548

 

Then..

 

Draisaitl...

 

Anyway.....I have never heard of the AHL killing careers but if that's true we should do away with it now I guess.

[The_People1]

I think we should keep Bennett for the playoffs.  It's not worth trading him now because he'll get us back a 4th round pick at best.  That cap hit and 4th line production/impact.  Just keep him.  Once we get to the playoffs and hitting is worth as much as scoring, then Bennett will be an impact player for us.

[travel_dude]

There are some teams that value the kind of game Bennett has, and has potential for.

I doubt we get a solid return in any trade though, until he starts producing.

Usage is going to be tough the way this team is stacked up.

 

Lucic is burning 3rd line minutes and not really what we need out of him.

I like the physical edge and some of his possession game, but he needs N/S players to succeed.

Mangiapane is taking advantage of whatever minutes he gets.

Ryan is starting slow.

Janko is looking less like a NHL center, but he's only ever produced with 13-15 minutes.

Rieder is I don't know what.  Some good stuff and jinxed on his limited chances.

Czarnik is limited results from very limited ice.

 

The top 2 lines are returning to what they looked like last year.

When you barely have a winning record, having them together right now is key.

Not the time to "try" to get Bennett going in the top 6, unless you don't mind waiting 10-20 games for results.

An injury to Backlund could trigger that, but even then I doubt they insert him.

 

The only solution right now is to pick the 2 best remaining players and glue them to Bennett.

That is likely Mangiapane and Ryan.

Play Bennett at LW and stick to it.

Having Mangiapane getting used to RW will give us a bit options should the top 6 have any issues.

Bennett gets the role he's looked the best to date in.

His linemates are solid, if not spectacular.

 

[JTech780]

13 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

So .. just quickly checking in the NHL's leading scorers...

 

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=130548

 

Then..

 

Draisaitl...

 

Anyway.....I have never heard of the AHL killing careers but if that's true we should do away with it now I guess.

 

Sending successful NHLers to the AHL would easily kill the confidence of an NHLer.

 

Your examples aren't even in the same stratosphere as Bennett. Neither Draisaitl or Scheiffle were sent to the AHL after spending a full season in the AHL, and neither dominated their junior league the same way Bennett did.

[jjgallow]

19 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

Sending successful NHLers to the AHL would easily kill the confidence of an NHLer.

 

Your examples aren't even in the same stratosphere as Bennett. Neither Draisaitl or Scheiffle were sent to the AHL after spending a full season in the AHL, and neither dominated their junior league the same way Bennett did.

 

So, 

 

I feel like we're at that point where you're just going to refuse you're wrong and if that's impossible, attack my attitude.   That has always been my experience on here when things get to this point.

 

But you do seem to be missing the key point of all this that he should have stayed an extra year in junior.    That is Really the key message being driven home and you're just not dealing with it.

 

If we Must talk about the far  less critical point of the AHL, there's...I dunno,

 

Kyle Palmieri, Brayden Schenn, Taylor Hall, Jordan Eberle, Mika Zibanejad, Tyler Toffoli, Dylan Strome, Ryan Strome, David Pastrnak, Jonathan Drouin Literally off the top of my head that either had similar PPG or GPG in the NHL to Bennett, went to the AHL, and came out the same or usually improved.

 

sooooo.... anyway i dunno what to say.  I feel like when we start getting down to facts that's when things get hostile on here so whatever it's all good.

[JTech780]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

 

So, 

 

I feel like we're at that point where you're just going to refuse you're wrong and if that's impossible, attack my attitude.   That has always been my experience on here when things get to this point.

 

But you do seem to be missing the key point of all this that he should have stayed an extra year in junior.    That is Really the key message being driven home and you're just not dealing with it.

 

If we Must talk about the far  less critical point of the AHL, there's...I dunno,

 

Kyle Palmieri, Brayden Schenn, Taylor Hall, Jordan Eberle, Mika Zibanejad, Tyler Toffoli, Dylan Strome, Ryan Strome, David Pastrnak, Jonathan Drouin Literally off the top of my head that either had similar PPG or GPG in the NHL to Bennett, went to the AHL, and came out the same or usually improved.

 

sooooo.... anyway i dunno what to say.  I feel like when we start getting down to facts that's when things get hostile on here so whatever it's all good.

 

I did deal with it, by saying Bennett was dominating the OHL and had nothing more to gain from that league. Even if he did go back he would be in the same position of not having a place to play in the top 6 or having quality linemates, so it wouldn't have changed much for him.

 

The players you listed all played in the AHL due to the lockout, not because they were sent there for development, oh and Ryan Strome, not sure he is the example you want to use.

 

It gets hostile when it gets down to facts because you choose what facts you want to use and what facts you want to ignore. You tend to ignore the facts the prove you wrong.

 

I am going to be quite blunt and honest with you, I have you on ignore and only see your posts if other people quote them. Most of your posts are condescending and are full of half truths and very little facts. Usually I just keep ignoring your posts, but again I couldn't help myself and was goaded into a discussion where it feels like I am talking to brick wall.

 

I am apologize if I hurt your feelings or if you don't like what I have to say, just being honest.

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

 

I did deal with it, by saying Bennett was dominating the OHL and had nothing more to gain from that league. Even if he did go back he would be in the same position of not having a place to play in the top 6 or having quality linemates, so it wouldn't have changed much for him.

 

Right, so this is simply not true.  An 11-game point streak in the regular season is by no means any reason to call any player dominant in any league whatsoever, under any circumstances.   Please see James Neal debate so that we don't have to have one here.

 

What Bennett demonstrated in junior that year is that he still struggled immensely with physical play.    He was one of the poorest performers on his team in the OHL playoffs, showing extremely dramatic decline from the previous year when players should be showing clear year-over-year improvement.   He was completely ineffective in OHL games that mattered (playoffs).  

 

This isn't a debate, his performance was aweful.  Again not a debate.  Your facts are wrong, end stop.  We later learned that he returned too early.

 

Quote

 

The players you listed all played in the AHL due to the lockout, not because they were sent there for development, oh and Ryan Strome, not sure he is the example you want to use.

 

Again this is simply entirely not true, your facts are wrong, check your facts, thank you.  Period.  End of conversation.      In the event that your facts were right, they would still be entirely irrelevant.

 

Quote

 

It gets hostile when it gets down to facts because you choose what facts you want to use and what facts you want to ignore. You tend to ignore the facts the prove you wrong.

 

I am going to be quite blunt and honest with you, I have you on ignore and only see your posts if other people quote them. Most of your posts are condescending and are full of half truths and very little facts. Usually I just keep ignoring your posts, but again I couldn't help myself and was goaded into a discussion where it feels like I am talking to brick wall.

 

I am apologize if I hurt your feelings or if you don't like what I have to say, just being honest.

 

And this is the part I predicted.

 

Whatever.  I know better than to even bring this up so my bad. 

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

 

I did deal with it, by saying Bennett was dominating the OHL and had nothing more to gain from that league. Even if he did go back he would be in the same position of not having a place to play in the top 6 or having quality linemates, so it wouldn't have changed much for him.

 

The players you listed all played in the AHL due to the lockout, not because they were sent there for development, oh and Ryan Strome, not sure he is the example you want to use.

 

It gets hostile when it gets down to facts because you choose what facts you want to use and what facts you want to ignore. You tend to ignore the facts the prove you wrong.

 

I am going to be quite blunt and honest with you, I have you on ignore and only see your posts if other people quote them. Most of your posts are condescending and are full of half truths and very little facts. Usually I just keep ignoring your posts, but again I couldn't help myself and was goaded into a discussion where it feels like I am talking to brick wall.

 

I am apologize if I hurt your feelings or if you don't like what I have to say, just being honest.

 

What I remember from back then was that I wanted him to keep playing C. That it was great that he could be in the NHL but I remember for me since we wanted and expected  a dominant C I thought that he should play in a league that allowed him to do that., to keep playing C. I don’t think we can say either way and could never know or prove that a year extra in junior would have changed things or made it worse. 

 

We could speculate. My idea is that he needed to play in situations to allow him to improve his play. Let the position be second nature. Next step if needed in the AHL. It’s about developing and I think the Flames overlooked it. 

 

he could hold his own on Backlund’s line but holding his own isn’t all we wanted. 

I prefer the Detroit approach. Analyze and see, if they can let them stay, but if not, you can’t say either way a year in JR and the A would kill his career.

 

i think the worst case scenario he’d still be where he was at. 

 

Plus I think he could work on his game in a league he could still produce offence and try be a dominant two way C.  

 

So if he gets 160 points is that so terrible. 

 

I think a young young player should play more minutes and develop. Tkachuk’s situation isn’t the norm. So we can’t use it as a barometer.

[JTech780]

2 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

What I remember from back then was that I wanted him to keep playing C. That it was great that he could be in the NHL but I remember for me since we wanted and expected  a dominant C I thought that he should play in a league that allowed him to do that., to keep playing C. I don’t think we can say either way and could never know or prove that a year extra in junior would have changed things or made it worse. 

 

We could speculate. My idea is that he needed to play in situations to allow him to improve his play. Let the position be second nature. Next step if needed in the AHL. It’s about developing and I think the Flames overlooked it. 

 

he could hold his own on Backlund’s line but holding his own isn’t all we wanted. 

I prefer the Detroit approach. Analyze and see, if they can let them stay, but if not, you can’t say either way a year in JR and the A would kill his career.

 

I never said that going back to JR would kill his career, I just don't think it would have helped much. 

 

I get that it could have and it is a fair speculation.

 

At the end of the day, we have a player that needed consistency and better linemates. That's where his development went off the rails IMO, he was trending in the right direction during his rookie season. We just didn't give him a chance to take the next step.

[travel_dude]

IIRC, Bennett's first full year in the AHL was a combination of LW (playing with Granlund) and 2nd line LW with Backlund.

He may have gotten some time in at C after Granlund was traded.

 

Anywho, we can argue about what was best but this isn't helping.

He needs to play consistently and have consistent linemates to raise his and their value.

I have no idea what he does at practice, or how he responds on the bench.

The coach has problems with him at times.

Or he plays him like he has problems.

He may just see things that we don't and is curbing the issues.

[robrob74]

9 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

IIRC, Bennett's first full year in the AHL was a combination of LW (playing with Granlund) and 2nd line LW with Backlund.

He may have gotten some time in at C after Granlund was traded.

 

Anywho, we can argue about what was best but this isn't helping.

He needs to play consistently and have consistent linemates to raise his and their value.

I have no idea what he does at practice, or how he responds on the bench.

The coach has problems with him at times.

Or he plays him like he has problems.

He may just see things that we don't and is curbing the issues.

 

 

I think it’s more a conversation of how the Flames develop. This is a team development thing. I get you gotta put it on players too. I wouldn’t say Monahan is a two-way genius but he scores so his limitations are minimized. He’s not too slow but can’t go head to head 100% of the time against the likes of McKinnon or a lot of other team’s best.

 

but there is difference too I think. Some players need to develop while others are more ready. It’s a matter of recognition of it. 

 

I think the team could’ve done better with other players too. Have Baertschi play longer. That was on Feaster. Talked him up, the emergency call up and “immediate” success in that call up. He was hyped to be gifted iginla’s job.  Really he should’ve spent 1-2 years in the AHL. 

 

They almost ruined Backlund too.

 

it is just hard when we see other teams players develop properly. Guessing there are some that fail like our team, but it seems some teams have optimism with young players.

[jjgallow]

19 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

I think it’s more a conversation of how the Flames develop. This is a team development thing. I get you gotta put it on players too. I wouldn’t say Monahan is a two-way genius but he scores so his limitations are minimized. He’s not too slow but can’t go head to head 100% of the time against the likes of McKinnon or a lot of other team’s best.

 

but there is difference too I think. Some players need to develop while others are more ready. It’s a matter of recognition of it. 

 

I think the team could’ve done better with other players too. Have Baertschi play longer. That was on Feaster. Talked him up, the emergency call up and “immediate” success in that call up. He was hyped to be gifted iginla’s job.  Really he should’ve spent 1-2 years in the AHL. 

 

They almost ruined Backlund too.

 

it is just hard when we see other teams players develop properly. Guessing there are some that fail like our team, but it seems some teams have optimism with young players.

 

Entirely agree.   To Traveldude's point i think he is telling me to cool it and he's right to do so. 

 

that is why I'm going to drop this and I won't even mention that we just broke Valimaki too.

[cross16]

Honestly I don’t even understand why the discussion is so centered on junior or not. If you think that would make a difference fine but the reality is no one is right because we don’t know. Maybe it would have maybe it didn’t matter but there are no facts that prove it or disprove it unless you’ve created an alternative universe we are unaware of. It’s all a matter of opinion. 

 

for me it’s not the crux of the issue because it doesn’t really matter what type of development you’ve had prior to getting to the NHL you still need to develop at the NHL level  I think it’s pretty clear the flames went quite wrong with Bennett at the nhl level so imo it’s not very relevant whether or not he went back to junior because it’s highly probably the results are the same because the problem has been his nhl development. I don’t agree with this notion that players come to the nhl full developed and ready to go, nor is it accurate either. 
 

I didn’t like Hartley but he was good for young players. He had a plan, he put them in situations that maximizes their strengths and minimized their weaknesses. It’s no surprise that Bennett looked awesome under Hartley, had a bright future and then it went away once that plan wasn’t as clear. 

[jjgallow]

ok ok.

 

Getting back on topic I agree with Peeps.  No point in trading him.  You'll get nothing back and he still has that same high ceiling he always did.

 

I still think a conditioning stint in the AHL with top-line minutes....  isn't going to make things worse and might make things dramatically different.

 

Without going into broader problems, or root causes or even coaches (which will lead us into GMs), the way you get maximum value out of Bennett imho is to get him back to the player we drafted (a high-scoring top-line pro), in the AHL or elsewhere, and re-assess at that point.  Even if you ARE going to trade him, you do this first because then at least he has some value.

 

I don't even think Bennett's Trying to be that player anymore and that's a problem.   He Must be frustrated far more than we are.   Someone just needs to sit down with him and say hey, we're going to get you back on the path of a talented superstar, it's up to you what you make of it.   Do a good job and we'll bring you back up on the first line or trade you to a team that will.