rickross Posted May 8, 2019 Report Share Posted May 8, 2019 My biggest concern with BP going into next year is his ability to not only maintain last seasons level of success but to further exceed it. I’m not convinced BP knew the exact recipe behind last years outburst. He failed to recapture it late into the season and obviously the playoffs. All that firepower disappeared, the team looked lost tbh. Hard to ignore what the Canes have achieved without BP there at the helm. It’s not all on BP but it’s pretty obvious he didn’t have an answer at the most critical time of the year for this team. It’s year 1 but he’s somehow set the bar extremely high but oh so low at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted May 8, 2019 Report Share Posted May 8, 2019 9 hours ago, rickross said: My biggest concern with BP going into next year is his ability to not only maintain last seasons level of success but to further exceed it. I’m not convinced BP knew the exact recipe behind last years outburst. He failed to recapture it late into the season and obviously the playoffs. All that firepower disappeared, the team looked lost tbh. Hard to ignore what the Canes have achieved without BP there at the helm. It’s not all on BP but it’s pretty obvious he didn’t have an answer at the most critical time of the year for this team. It’s year 1 but he’s somehow set the bar extremely high but oh so low at the same time. I see differences and similarities to GG. That’s what kind of scares me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted May 8, 2019 Report Share Posted May 8, 2019 9 hours ago, rickross said: My biggest concern with BP going into next year is his ability to not only maintain last seasons level of success but to further exceed it. I’m not convinced BP knew the exact recipe behind last years outburst. He failed to recapture it late into the season and obviously the playoffs. All that firepower disappeared, the team looked lost tbh. Hard to ignore what the Canes have achieved without BP there at the helm. It’s not all on BP but it’s pretty obvious he didn’t have an answer at the most critical time of the year for this team. It’s year 1 but he’s somehow set the bar extremely high but oh so low at the same time. The biggest change for Carolina was that they finally got consistent goaltending and that Aho took another step in his career. I do think they benefitted from Don Cherry calling them a Bunch of Jerks, and really used that to rally around. Brind'Amour has done a great job, but they still barely made it into the playoffs. A lot of players set new career bests this year under Peters and they did finish the year with the 2nd best record in the NHL. The season didn't 3nd the way we wanted, but let's not lose sight of the fact that this team went from missing the playoffs to the top team in the West. I doubt they will have the same regular season success next season as they did this season, there is just too much parity in the league for that to happen. I do expect them to make it to the playoffs, and to be much better in the playoffs. IMO Peters is far and away the best coach we have had since Darryl Sutter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted May 8, 2019 Report Share Posted May 8, 2019 20 minutes ago, JTech780 said: I doubt they will have the same regular season success next season as they did this season, there is just too much parity in the league for that to happen. On this point, I do believe we have a small chance to miss the playoffs. I know it's an extreme view but the Flames have been on a cycle of "on one year and off the next". We are due for an off-year. Why we will miss the playoffs? 1. Because two years ago we missed the playoffs due to a lack of goaltending. We were a decent team that season with decent advanced stats. We were let down by bottom 5 goaltending. As we sit right now, our goaltending situation is still up in the air. 2. The playoffs were such ego crushing that the team may go into next season thinking nothing matters until the playoffs... And as a result, don't even get in. Waiting for the playoffs to turn it on. 3. Because of league parity, if the Avs can dismantle us, then so can improved Canucks, Oilers, Coyotes, etc, anyone in our division can. 4. Career years. Our players were on pace for much bigger numbers until January when they ran out of gas. We may not get that good start next season and players may not repeat career highs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted May 8, 2019 Report Share Posted May 8, 2019 12 minutes ago, The_People1 said: On this point, I do believe we have a small chance to miss the playoffs. I know it's an extreme view but the Flames have been on a cycle of "on one year and off the next". We are due for an off-year. Why we will miss the playoffs? 1. Because two years ago we missed the playoffs due to a lack of goaltending. We were a decent team that season with decent advanced stats. We were let down by bottom 5 goaltending. As we sit right now, our goaltending situation is still up in the air. 2. The playoffs were such ego crushing that the team may go into next season thinking nothing matters until the playoffs... And as a result, don't even get in. Waiting for the playoffs to turn it on. 3. Because of league parity, if the Avs can dismantle us, then so can improved Canucks, Oilers, Coyotes, etc, anyone in our division can. 4. Career years. Our players were on pace for much bigger numbers until January when they ran out of gas. We may not get that good start next season and players may not repeat career highs. Preplanning the excuses if for LOSERS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted May 8, 2019 Report Share Posted May 8, 2019 37 minutes ago, MAC331 said: Preplanning the excuses if for LOSERS Not making excuses. Just learning from history so history doesn't repeat itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted May 8, 2019 Report Share Posted May 8, 2019 59 minutes ago, The_People1 said: Not making excuses. Just learning from history so history doesn't repeat itself. Rearview mirror, different time, different coaches, some different players, moving parts = futility Build the best roster possible every year and see where it takes you is what sports are all about, not history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted May 8, 2019 Report Share Posted May 8, 2019 21 minutes ago, MAC331 said: Rearview mirror, different time, different coaches, some different players, moving parts = futility Build the best roster possible every year and see where it takes you is what sports are all about, not history. It's not rearview mirror. It's seeing what's up ahead. We are one bad goaltending move from missing the playoffs again. That's how much parity there is in the NHL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted May 8, 2019 Report Share Posted May 8, 2019 2 hours ago, The_People1 said: On this point, I do believe we have a small chance to miss the playoffs. I know it's an extreme view but the Flames have been on a cycle of "on one year and off the next". We are due for an off-year. Why we will miss the playoffs? 1. Because two years ago we missed the playoffs due to a lack of goaltending. We were a decent team that season with decent advanced stats. We were let down by bottom 5 goaltending. As we sit right now, our goaltending situation is still up in the air. 2. The playoffs were such ego crushing that the team may go into next season thinking nothing matters until the playoffs... And as a result, don't even get in. Waiting for the playoffs to turn it on. 3. Because of league parity, if the Avs can dismantle us, then so can improved Canucks, Oilers, Coyotes, etc, anyone in our division can. 4. Career years. Our players were on pace for much bigger numbers until January when they ran out of gas. We may not get that good start next season and players may not repeat career highs. Career years, but also first year of some players. Ryan took a long time to find a steady game and results came later. Hanifin struggled with top 4 minutes. Neal found himself on the wrong side of 20 goals. Smith was downright bad for at least half a season; we only made the playoffs when he became league average and we had Rittich saving the day early on. Even with that situation, we managed 1st in the west. Unlike previous post-playoff years, we didn't have unsustainable results based on PDO. We were above the norm in almost every facet of the game. If anything, our PP and PK let us down more than normal. I get your pessissism, but there are also reasons to feel like we are making progress. Career years in spite of regression at the end of the season. Lots of goals against in losses that were a result of goaltending. The key is for us to solve the goalie riddle. Smith is not part of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted May 8, 2019 Report Share Posted May 8, 2019 24 minutes ago, travel_dude said: I get your pessissism, but there are also reasons to feel like we are making progress. Oh I didn't mean to sound pessimistic. It's a very slim chance we miss the playoffs but I'm just saying, we shouldn't be surprised. There is a lot of parity in the NHL. We can certainly steer clear of disaster with some smart moves this summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted May 8, 2019 Report Share Posted May 8, 2019 44 minutes ago, The_People1 said: Oh I didn't mean to sound pessimistic. It's a very slim chance we miss the playoffs but I'm just saying, we shouldn't be surprised. There is a lot of parity in the NHL. We can certainly steer clear of disaster with some smart moves this summer. Or lack of dumb ones. The draft day is the only day that BT makes smart trades. The FA is usually an issue for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted May 8, 2019 Report Share Posted May 8, 2019 Reporter: This is the farthest the franchise has ever gone. Is there a sense of accomp... Torts: don't even go there. Reporter: accomplishment... No. No? Torts: don't even go there with me. I'm not going to listen to that bull. And accomplishment you got to the second round. Don't even want to listen to it. Is this the kind of attitude that's missing from the Flames organization in general? There seems to be this sensitivity towards dismissing the success of the season based on our disappointing playoff showing. Why are we so protective of the season as a whole? In a way we SHOULD disregard the entire regular season because the ultimate goal is the Cup. We SHOULD set the bar that high, right? If we want to be hypercritical, then we actually went farther with Bob Hartley than any other coach since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted May 8, 2019 Report Share Posted May 8, 2019 10 minutes ago, The_People1 said: Reporter: This is the farthest the franchise has ever gone. Is there a sense of accomp... Torts: don't even go there. Reporter: accomplishment... No. No? Torts: don't even go there with me. I'm not going to listen to that bull. And accomplishment you got to the second round. Don't even want to listen to it. Is this the kind of attitude that's missing from the Flames organization in general? There seems to be this sensitivity towards dismissing the success of the season based on our disappointing playoff showing. Why are we so protective of the season as a whole? In a way we SHOULD disregard the entire regular season because the ultimate goal is the Cup. We SHOULD set the bar that high, right? If we want to be hypercritical, then we actually went farther with Bob Hartley than any other coach since. How do you know anything is missing ? Unless you are a player or part of the Team you don't know what attitude they left with after their defeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted May 8, 2019 Report Share Posted May 8, 2019 I love Torts. One of the best coaches in the league for my money. Players coach, leads the attitude and treats the media precisely as they should be treated. And he's hilarious. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheersMan Posted May 8, 2019 Report Share Posted May 8, 2019 CBJ sold the farm to maximize this years success. Their season is now over and the farm isn’t coming back. The Flames still have the farm and should be improving next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted May 8, 2019 Report Share Posted May 8, 2019 15 minutes ago, The_People1 said: Reporter: This is the farthest the franchise has ever gone. Is there a sense of accomp... Torts: don't even go there. Reporter: accomplishment... No. No? Torts: don't even go there with me. I'm not going to listen to that bull. And accomplishment you got to the second round. Don't even want to listen to it. Is this the kind of attitude that's missing from the Flames organization in general? There seems to be this sensitivity towards dismissing the success of the season based on our disappointing playoff showing. Why are we so protective of the season as a whole? In a way we SHOULD disregard the entire regular season because the ultimate goal is the Cup. We SHOULD set the bar that high, right? If we want to be hypercritical, then we actually went farther with Bob Hartley than any other coach since. I think there is a stark difference between us and Columbus. We are just entering our prime of this cycle of talent. Columbus just went all in and is about lose majority of their core. I get what you are saying, the Cup has to be the goal for this team every year going forward till the next rebuild. If you listen to any of the interviews with Brad Treliving after the season ended, I didn't get the sense that he was happy with how the season went. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickross Posted May 8, 2019 Report Share Posted May 8, 2019 7 hours ago, The_People1 said: On this point, I do believe we have a small chance to miss the playoffs. I know it's an extreme view but the Flames have been on a cycle of "on one year and off the next". We are due for an off-year. Why we will miss the playoffs? 1. Because two years ago we missed the playoffs due to a lack of goaltending. We were a decent team that season with decent advanced stats. We were let down by bottom 5 goaltending. As we sit right now, our goaltending situation is still up in the air. 2. The playoffs were such ego crushing that the team may go into next season thinking nothing matters until the playoffs... And as a result, don't even get in. Waiting for the playoffs to turn it on. 3. Because of league parity, if the Avs can dismantle us, then so can improved Canucks, Oilers, Coyotes, etc, anyone in our division can. 4. Career years. Our players were on pace for much bigger numbers until January when they ran out of gas. We may not get that good start next season and players may not repeat career highs. There are a lot of trends that could have us missing the playoffs. It’s definitely a potential cause for concern for next season. Sophomore jinx for BP and co., it took us almost 30 years to enjoy this type of regular season success again so let’s hope this isn’t a 1 and done thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted May 8, 2019 Report Share Posted May 8, 2019 1 hour ago, The_People1 said: Reporter: This is the farthest the franchise has ever gone. Is there a sense of accomp... Torts: don't even go there. Reporter: accomplishment... No. No? Torts: don't even go there with me. I'm not going to listen to that bull. And accomplishment you got to the second round. Don't even want to listen to it. Is this the kind of attitude that's missing from the Flames organization in general? There seems to be this sensitivity towards dismissing the success of the season based on our disappointing playoff showing. Why are we so protective of the season as a whole? In a way we SHOULD disregard the entire regular season because the ultimate goal is the Cup. We SHOULD set the bar that high, right? If we want to be hypercritical, then we actually went farther with Bob Hartley than any other coach since. I agree with you! It’s why I am hypercritical. I expect the team to compete to its highest possible point. Do what they can to win. If this team had that attitude I think they have enough to challenge for the Western Conference at the very least. When the players make the same mistakes over and over or don’t even come to play then I think it’s a failure. If they compete their Hash Rate off then I would be fine with them losing because they at least tried their best. The one thing that kept me a Flames fan was that since the 89 win the team kept trying until the end of each game all of the way until they were knocked out by Anaheim in the playoffs the very next playoffs after the run to the finals in 04. I think we gotta stop being so nice to the players. Sure it was nice to have the most points in the West, but I still don’t have to like the fashion in which they got there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted May 9, 2019 Report Share Posted May 9, 2019 53 minutes ago, robrob74 said: I think we gotta stop being so nice to the players. Sure it was nice to have the most points in the West, but I still don’t have to like the fashion in which they got there. Torts as coach would go something like this: "how did you think your 1st line performed"? Torts: why don't you go ask them how they think they performed, no comment. Love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 On 2019-05-08 at 3:52 PM, The_People1 said: Reporter: This is the farthest the franchise has ever gone. Is there a sense of accomp... Torts: don't even go there. Reporter: accomplishment... No. No? Torts: don't even go there with me. I'm not going to listen to that bull. And accomplishment you got to the second round. Don't even want to listen to it. Is this the kind of attitude that's missing from the Flames organization in general? There seems to be this sensitivity towards dismissing the success of the season based on our disappointing playoff showing. Why are we so protective of the season as a whole? In a way we SHOULD disregard the entire regular season because the ultimate goal is the Cup. We SHOULD set the bar that high, right? If we want to be hypercritical, then we actually went farther with Bob Hartley than any other coach since. there is a lot here I agree with, particularity yes I think this is a franchise that needs more of this attitude. We hang banners and have ceremonies/ parades when we lose a cup final, have ceremonies for winning a division and have consistently stated we want to be a "good" team and just get into the playoffs. I feel treliving fits this mold but Ken King and above? No. Flames have needed a culture change for a while and I'm not sure it's happening fast enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheersMan Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 1 hour ago, cross16 said: there is a lot here I agree with, particularity yes I think this is a franchise that needs more of this attitude. We hang banners and have ceremonies/ parades when we lose a cup final, have ceremonies for winning a division and have consistently stated we want to be a "good" team and just get into the playoffs. I feel treliving fits this mold but Ken King and above? No. Flames have needed a culture change for a while and I'm not sure it's happening fast enough. Should they state they want to be a "bad" team and miss the playoffs? I'm confused with your reasoning. What is your beef with KK? Did he crush your hand in a meet and greet line-up, or was it something else? BT is attempting to build a team without salvaging the future, your suggesting KK is promoting the opposite. KK wants to win as much or more so than anyone else and he is providing BT the means to do it. Give us an example of how KK has interfered negatively with BT's work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 48 minutes ago, CheersMan said: Should they state they want to be a "bad" team and miss the playoffs? I'm confused with your reasoning. What is your beef with KK? Did he crush your hand in a meet and greet line-up, or was it something else? BT is attempting to build a team without salvaging the future, your suggesting KK is promoting the opposite. KK wants to win as much or more so than anyone else and he is providing BT the means to do it. Give us an example of how KK has interfered negatively with BT's work. Interfering with the trading of Iginla before they actually did because all they wanted to do was make the playoffs. They didn’t want to go full rebuild and then postponed it for a few years later. Had they went rebuild before, could they’ve gotten more for him? I was calling for a rebuild about 3 years before it happened. Bishop. Someone from above stopped those possible deals twice. Possibly Zucker. A deal was done but somehow it didn’t go to NHL. I think it was in the Flames end. Those are a few that come to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 11 hours ago, CheersMan said: Should they state they want to be a "bad" team and miss the playoffs? I'm confused with your reasoning. What is your beef with KK? Did he crush your hand in a meet and greet line-up, or was it something else? BT is attempting to build a team without salvaging the future, your suggesting KK is promoting the opposite. KK wants to win as much or more so than anyone else and he is providing BT the means to do it. Give us an example of how KK has interfered negatively with BT's work. I have no beef with Ken King, I just don't think he does a very good job ruining my favorite sports franchise, so yes i'm going to be critical of what he does when I don't agree with it. I think Ken King likes to win games because wining is good for the brand the the business but I don't think King's brand is winning. If you are all about winning you don't: have parades when you lose cup finals hire Jay Feaster. Refuse to rebuild meddle in trades and your GMs business, or flat out be involved in Hockey op decisions when you don't have a hockey background. Not to mention the only reason BT is here is Brian Burke. King didn't want to let feaster go and it's also my understanding the call to hire Burke was a Murray Edwards call, not King. Its not all doom and gloom. I like BT and think he is doing a good job and the flames should win a lot of games in the next few years. But for me culture is a huge piece to winning a championship and I'm skeptical that culture can develop here to push them over the edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 12 minutes ago, cross16 said: My beef with Ken King is imo he does a sub standard job of running my favorite team. He likes to win games so it's good for business and his brand but his brand Is not about winning. If you are all about winning you don't: have parades when you lose cup finals hire Jay Feaster. Refuse to rebuild meddle in trades and your GMs business. Not to mention the only reason BT is here is Brian Burke. King didn't want to let feaster go and it's also my understanding that call to hire Burke was a Murray Edwards call, not King. Its not all doom and gloom. I like BT and think he is doing a good job and the flames should win a lot of games in the next few years. But for me culture is a huge piece to winning a championship and I'm skeptical that culture can develop here to push them over the edge. King's role has been lessened a lot. It's BT's show to build the team and Peter's job to manage the talent. I alluded to this in an earlier comment that now with BT and BP having a year together some better planning will improve the team. I am watching CAR in these playoffs and see some of the aspects BP left behind there, Hopefully he can build a fast hard checking talented team here as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sak22 Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 Well we can praise Tortorella for his attitude, but that winning attitude has won him very few playoff rounds since his cup win, so there is that. We can hate KK and Edwards for being content with playoffs, but IMO thats not a Flames specific problem, listen to Holland and his goal of being back in the playoffs every year and its like that generally everywhere in the league. It's sad because the leagues that are easier to make the playoffs, based on odds have the highest emphasis on the playoffs being the objective. I don't know how many NFL teams set out to just make the playoffs. I don't think the Rams were celebrated as Super Bowl runner ups as much as most Stanley Cup runner ups are. Thats why I always find it funny with all the expanded playoff talk, half the league gets a chance thats enough, I'd rather see a longer season and reduced playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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